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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: February 12, 2011 09:08PM

Why do Mormons believe?
 
An overview.
 
Those that have left, often do so because their consensus of the story of Mormonism is a fraud, hoax, scam, a destructive cult, etc. There is a large range in how former members deal with Mormonism, ranging from mild non acceptance/non belief, to  seeing nothing positive or beneficial about the claims, and wanting nothing to do with the culture and how it functions.  Love of the Gospel, for some, turns to dislike or hate of all of it.
 
At one time, most of us were believers. I  was a believer. I have a little different perspective,  because I was a convert and participated in a local Christian Church for a couple of decades (the same denomination of my Christian minister relatives for several generations),  before I converted. That experience gave me some early teaching about how religion works in a home, family, and with the individual, and the power of  a belief in God in how a family functions.
 
 It's my perspective (that I explain in the next paragraphs), that has been a paramount element in how I deal with Mormonism as a non-believer, and how I have left the church. It plays a strong role in how I maintain my sense of self, sense of self respect, self confidence,  and most importantly, how I have made peace with all of my life, including the decades I spent living Mormons as a totally dedicated, testimony bearing, totally immersed, member.
 
My conclusion, generally.
Believers are believers in any religion or belief system (including Buddhism), because it is  either a spiritual witness of claimed metaphysical supernatural events or special teachings, or  as a manifestation of a deity or elevated teacher which, in the case of a belief in a deity, and savior,takes on the characteristics of  God Myth. (Buddhism is not a God Myth). The deity/s take on the characteristic of exalted familial humanness.
 
 God Myths are part of the history of humanity for eons. The longer it has survived, the greater the creditability, the more factions. The beliefs are solidified and maintained  by a strong, enduring emotional attachment component. Religion in the societies of the world has a prominent element of power usually part of the governmental process in some manner, which continues it's credibility. 
 
My conclusions, specifically.
Mormonism fits the definition of a God Myth with a savior, as does many others; belief is dependent on a spiritual witness of the supernatural claims of visions by someone claiming to speak for a deity. Within that frame work comes the dozens of ordinances, rules, policies, beliefs, music, architecture, leadership structure, language, costuming, claims that are considered sacred and clear instructions for living a life worthy of blessings from the God in this life and most often, in an after life.  Each  one has many variables that constitute a litmus test for maintaining worthiness/acceptance, or non acceptance  in the eye of the deity/s.
 
In many cases, believers are literal believers in the sacred writings such as the Bible,and  the Book of Mormon. Believers range from extreme strict fundamental literalists to moderates to liberal, more lax believers. I have often observed that there are as many different kinds of Mormons as there are Mormons, the variables dependent on the personalities, and dynamics of the familial environment.
 
It is more common in humanity to believe in a deity/s, than not. The various beliefs constitute the various order of the proper celebrations around birth, coming of age, marriage, and death, predominately.
 
The power of the spiritual witness is dependent on the emotional attachment,bond to the beliefs which are either literal, or strictly spiritual. The power of that spiritual witness in the supernatural claims of angels, visions, translations, for instance, that no evidence of any actual factual elements is necessary.  
There is no need for actual, golden plates, for instance as the spiritual witness in the claims by Joseph Smith Jr. is sufficient. In religious God Myths, the power of the belief by faith supercedes/over rides  any need for factual evidences. In fact, it is a manifestation of great faith in God,  to not ask for or require any factual evidences.

Do the General Authorities, and other leaders  and testimony bearing members believe in Mormonism's claims as literal? Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't really matter.
The spiritual witness aka testimony is not dependent on producing golden plates, for instance.
Supernatural claims are never dependent on physical factual evidence. They are believed as true  and real as other kinds of claimed events.
 
In conclusion:
I have concluded that the best way to understand Mormonism is as a generational, cultural, societal, familial, traditional tribe that was solidified in isolation by Brigham Young in the middle to late 1800's in Utah. The elements established by that isolation continues today in many of the customs and culture in how Mormonism is lived, depending on whether it's in a largely Mormon community or as it is part of a larger community, which is often very different.

 
I am no longer a believer in any claims of the LDS Church/Mormonism. That is the predominate reason I am no longer a member.  I have no emotional attachment or bond to the claims.
 
It was part of my life that helped create who I am today and for that, I am grateful for all of it: the good, the bad, the ugly, just like the rest of my life.
 
I have concluded  through experience and observation that we are human beings first, doing what humans do. The thousands of experiences in my nearly seven decades of life has shown me that the same kinds of behaviors that are found in religion are found everywhere else: everything from  love, kindness, compassion, to lying, betrayal, abuse of all kinds. Anything one human can do, so can another.
 
I reserve placing my faith in that which will hold up to scrutiny.
I am a strong advocate in rights, civil rights, the right to chose our belief system/religion, or none.
 
Each person  is responsible for finding a way to deal with making changes in their life regarding their belief in Mormonism when they decide to leave it. There is no manual. We won't all agree. Some will live with and live Mormons, some will not.It's probably one of the most difficult decisions former members make. How they navigate the process can have lasting results.
 
It's my view that we are, in essence, leaving our tribe, and that is for the most part, not easy.
That is why I like this quote and use it from time to time:
 
"The individual has always had to struggle to resist the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."
--Nietzsche

 And so, like many of you, I muddle along, trying to find a way to make my life work  with a new kind of freedom, a new normal, a new kind of  peaceful, happy,  joyful  life, hopefully  filled with as much love and laughter and fun as possible, getting through the hard times, the sad times, the difficult times.
For me: life is good. I cherish every day. It's a gift.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Posted by: Nebularry ( )
Date: February 12, 2011 09:56PM

As always, SusieQ#1, your wisdom is humbling. A great essay, concisely stated.

For the longest time, after leaving Mormonism and finding myself preferring atheism, I believed that theists of any sort and Mormons in particular were either grossly deluded or just plain stupid. And I considered my 30 years as a TBM to fall under the stupid category. How could I have been so stupid???

I have since learned, however, that belief in supernatural things and gods in particular is a natural and normal thing for humans to do. The ability to believe in god is an essential component of our evolution. Theists are neither deluded nor stupid, rather, just doing what humans are capable of doing. This realization has helped me to understand my years as a theist (first Methodist, then Mormon) and it has helped me to be understanding and compassionate toward those who still find solace in religion.

Nevertheless, theists are lazy thinkers. It takes effort to NOT believe in god. One must study and reason and use a great deal of critical thinking to come to the realization that there is no god and that religion is a purely human contrivance. It is not easy to reject what is such a natural human activity. As you correctly stated, "I reserve placing my faith in that which will hold up to scrutiny."

Hopefully, you will not mind if I add a personal bibliography of three books that have been enormously helpful to me.

"Religion Explained" by Pascal Boyer
"The Supernatural and Natural Selection" by Steadman and Palmer
"Minds and Gods" by Todd Tremlin

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Posted by: xr ( )
Date: February 12, 2011 10:03PM

Good read. The human quest for spiritual meaning is an interesting obsession that I only know from the view of personal experience. I wonder if I would still explore spirituality if I hadn't been raised in a religious family and 'tribe'.
I too accept my twenty eight years raised in the Mormon church. It has greatly influenced my development as a person. I think my spirituality eventually out grew the framework of the Mormon church. It wasn't long until I realized Mormonism was no longer for me, and it was at that point that I really investigated the possibility it was presenting a false history. I think it took a while longer for me to consciously decide or realize it was false and to make the firm decision to resign.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: February 12, 2011 10:32PM

crossroads Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good read. The human quest for spiritual meaning
> is an interesting obsession that I only know from
> the view of personal experience. I wonder if I
> would still explore spirituality if I hadn't been
> raised in a religious family and 'tribe'.
> I too accept my twenty eight years raised in the
> Mormon church. It has greatly influenced my
> development as a person. I think my spirituality
> eventually out grew the framework of the Mormon
> church. It wasn't long until I realized Mormonism
> was no longer for me, and it was at that point
> that I really investigated the possibility it was
> presenting a false history. I think it took a
> while longer for me to consciously decide or
> realize it was false and to make the firm decision
> to resign.


Some further explanation re: my perspective.
In considering Mormonism a God Myth (as it follows the pattern of most religions such as: metaphysical, supernatural claims ), it is, therefore, a "true God Myth" as opposed to a false religion.
It is a true religion as a false religion would be a gas station claiming to be a religion! :-) (Could happen!)

It has not been necessary for me, in my process leaving Mormonism, to consider it evil, or a destructive cult, or a false religion, for instance. While others may use those terms, I do not.

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Posted by: xr ( )
Date: February 12, 2011 10:48PM

Good distinction

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: February 12, 2011 10:17PM

I added those books to my recommended reading book list.

I have been baffled at my own realization that it was not necessary to believe in a god. What happened? Where did decades of teaching, living, believing as a theist ....go?

Yes, it does take critical thinking skills, a completely different kind of analysis, that excludes that every present emotional bond to the belief to understand religion differently, and to find it lacking, personally.

Theism is part of being human, in my view. It's as old as the history of humanity. And, yes, I agree, it is part of human evolution.Gods and goddesses are created in the image of mankind, not the other way around. They are purely a human construct.
The emotional attachment/bond is very often so solid it's hermetically sealed in a section of the mind. I experience it in others on a daily basis! :-)

It has brought me great peace to know I am a normal human being, and being a believer (theist) was OK. It's also OK to change my mind.

My perspective, on religion, God Myths, Mormonism, (as it has developed), as part of being a normal human being, allows for a greater understanding of the power of long standing various traditions and rituals around birth, coming of age, marriage, death, etc. and their importance to the believer. I wouldn't want to see anyone deprived of those universal rights.

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Posted by: rmw ( )
Date: February 12, 2011 10:22PM

Thanks especially for the quote at the end. It really resonates with me.

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Posted by: axeldc ( )
Date: February 12, 2011 10:35PM

Most people believe in their respective religions because they were raised from birth to do so. That belief system is reinforced by family and community.

This is why most people are not phased by historical anomalies that discredit the church to neutral observers. They "know in their hearts" its right because they've never known a world without the church.

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Posted by: Cristina ( )
Date: February 13, 2011 02:18AM

Susie Q you've done a beautiful job integrating all aspects of your life experience without rejecting parts of yourself (your former selves as it were). That's a very healthy way to be. I admire that you do the same with your husband not rejecting his believing while you can chose not to believe anymore.

For me, I think, human nature's propensity to believe in a God isn't unhealthy or even ignorant. Unanswerable questions will always be there for us to grapple with and there's an inborn inclination toward understanding what is the nature of the power that created life. I see no harm in human beings being naturally inclined to believe there's a deity. It seems to me that the harm comes from religions that have rushed in to impose answers, to elevate their favored myths to fact, to coerce thinking within their paradigm and completely close down our openness to the mystery of it.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: February 13, 2011 12:19PM

Cristina Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Susie Q you've done a beautiful job integrating
> all aspects of your life experience without
> rejecting parts of yourself (your former selves as
> it were). That's a very healthy way to be. I
> admire that you do the same with your husband not
> rejecting his believing while you can chose not to
> believe anymore.
>
> For me, I think, human nature's propensity to
> believe in a God isn't unhealthy or even ignorant.
> Unanswerable questions will always be there for
> us to grapple with and there's an inborn
> inclination toward understanding what is the
> nature of the power that created life. I see no
> harm in human beings being naturally inclined to
> believe there's a deity. It seems to me that the
> harm comes from religions that have rushed in to
> impose answers, to elevate their favored myths to
> fact, to coerce thinking within their paradigm and
> completely close down our openness to the mystery
> of it.


I agree that believing in a God is not necessarily ignorant or lazy thinking. A lot depends on such things as your concept of God , how much studying you have done and whether you reject science. I am well educated, well read and I believe in a higher power. I kind of resented the statement that since I believe, I must be a lazy thinker. I think I have read as much or more on religion and science as most posters. I have also read Sagan, Armstrong, Dawkins etc.Sorry, but lots of smart people are believers. Just saying.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: February 14, 2011 12:37PM

Cristina Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> n/t

I don't know for sure that there is a God but I do believe there is. The arrogance of some atheists in assuming all believers are lazy and uneducated is very tiring. Even Einstein believed in a higher power. I would agree that some concepts of God are simplistic and a bit childish, but they are hardly the only concepts of God out there.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: February 13, 2011 05:02PM

Cristina Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Susie Q you've done a beautiful job integrating
> all aspects of your life experience without
> rejecting parts of yourself (your former selves as
> it were). That's a very healthy way to be. I
> admire that you do the same with your husband not
> rejecting his believing while you can chose not to
> believe anymore.
>
> For me, I think, human nature's propensity to
> believe in a God isn't unhealthy or even ignorant.
> Unanswerable questions will always be there for
> us to grapple with and there's an inborn
> inclination toward understanding what is the
> nature of the power that created life. I see no
> harm in human beings being naturally inclined to
> believe there's a deity. It seems to me that the
> harm comes from religions that have rushed in to
> impose answers, to elevate their favored myths to
> fact, to coerce thinking within their paradigm and
> completely close down our openness to the mystery
> of it.


It's my conclusion and perspective that whatever we experience, in particular, contributes to the whole of who we are and what makes us tick, so to speak. You pegged it.

It's not necessary to find fault with that process in how I live my life. Just learn to accept it, let go of what is not useful, and change what we determine we want or need to change if we have the power to do so. So, yes, I incorporate all of my experiences as valuable, on some level. Some teach me not to repeat them! :-)

Yes, indeed, I am convinced that a belief in God, (any one of a number of deities) is the natural, normal part of the development of most humans. I find the contributions of religious minded people to be some of the greatest of the whole of humanity, in that they are, in many cases, accessing what they believe to be their highest self. That's a Good Thing, in my view.

It's important in my relationship with my husband to give him the same respect he gives me re: our differing religious views. Even though they are very different, they mesh quite nicely.

There is no room for hate, or anger, or discontent with his choice. It's my responsibility and duty, as I see it, to accept him: " as-is" just as I want to be accepted and loved.

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Posted by: Nebularry ( )
Date: February 13, 2011 11:46AM


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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: February 13, 2011 02:21PM

Why humans believe. An Overview Part 2.


http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,112587

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Posted by: Bronwyn ( )
Date: February 13, 2011 06:42PM

Thank you.You always say things i need tohear

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Posted by: levite ( )
Date: February 14, 2011 09:51AM

Firstly the book of mormon and doctrine and covenants contradict each other, divided on certain issues.
The book of mormon tho no proof millions died in hill Camorah
not a trace of evidence to give creedence.
Tho the bible if taken for its word, then the mormon god is
false so obvious, tho a god who promises families can be together for ever is comforting and if we believe it can
be guided to a better family life.

The feelings of once saying we know the church is true
is also not biblical scriptural, as the bible says to come
and reason together, re-proove and question, and be convicted
in the word and not trust in our own feelings.

Some in history claimed joe smith to be the holy ghost incarnated that is a lot of rubbish...

There is supernatural feelings in joining a church that is
not based on bible, and that feeling prooves how vonerable we are yet we can be driven by feeling and be decieved..

How to get that feeling back, tho other churches have
wonderful holyghost experiences, but our human maybe worldly
longing for eternal family, is the mormon draw card that
gets us sucked in otherwise, why would we bother with all those
rules and legalism...

maybe it is nothing but treasure hunting
that attracts the
vain and those who seek eternal procreation/sex and becomming gods.. Its so silly really yet human nature seeks these things
out, letting the thinking be done by prophets, proberbly false prophets...

It is harder to be athiest and contructive critical thinking
and not a floating paradise lifestyle, but at least one can
own oneself and not be controlled by organized relegion.

That develops chararactor to think for oneself. I remember
when caught up in the church I seem to be anything but myself even sometimes took on the charactor and voice of mighty mormon prophets and appostles as the spirit touched me. Whatever that
spirit was, comforting or comforter more exciting than
the methodest church, is a mystery that only led me away from
the bible....

Satin can discuise himself as an angel of light.
talking about angels the bible says not to accept any other
angel preaching any other message than the bible..

Either we beleive in the bible or we should forget christian
relegion altogether and be buddhist or athiest whatever.

The choice is ours and to do so, and devlope loving charactor
and not harm anyone.

Levite..

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Posted by: 3X ( )
Date: February 14, 2011 10:48AM

"It is harder to be atheist and {utilize} constructive critical thinking and not a floating paradise lifestyle, but at least one can own oneself and not be controlled by organized religion."


There are some fundamental notions upon which the above opinion rests:

1. If we posit a Celestial Law-Giver, then we don't need to bother constructing a moral-code from the ground up (hard work), or finding meaning for our individual lives. Thinking _is_ work - much more convenient to empower some "prophets" and let them provide us with Received Wisdom.

2. Free-thinking is the birthright of every Homo Sapien. Whatever questions organized religion attempts to answer, every human has the right to find his own answers - be they consistent with religious law and doctrine or not.

Free thinking is not necessarily incompatible with faith, spirituality, etc - but it _is_ incompatible with spurious authority. That's why "free thinker" is an epithet employed by the Religious Right in their ad-hominem attacks on critics.

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