So am I the only one who thought his wife bought sexy underwear? Boy, what a let down that thread turned out to be...

That's what I thought to. I thought we were in for a sssexy holiday storeeee.

On a more serious note, I wanted to share that I believe from my own life experience that the poster's wife is most likely responding to both the stress of holiday expectations and her own inner pain. At 27 I found myself angry and very depressed and let my poor husband "have it" just because he was there.

With the help of a counselor, I eventually discovered that the abuse I had suffered growing up in an alcoholic/co-dependent home was responsible for how I was feeling. I recovered, thank the stars and clouds, but it was a traumatic time for all.

Wishing you, your wife and children the best ar this difficult time. Healing can occur.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2013 07:36PM by presleynfactsrock.

Sounds like your wife has internalized the Mormon 'reasons' people leave the church.

1. they have already sinned. now they don't want to feel guilty about it so they want to leave.

2. they want to sin and want a guilt-free ride doing so.

3. they were offended by someone.


All the things your wife was yelling about are the classic things Mormon women are afraid of: alcohol/ drug abuse, adultery, porn use...

If you are doing these things, the next thing is she wants to leave first, so as not to be the 'wife who was the last to know'.

And once you leave the only true church, you are under satan's power.

She was rude and extremely abusive to scream all this at you in front of the kids, who, until then were eagerly anticipating a nice day tomorrow. Now they are devastated.

If your wife doesn't apologize and explain the reasons for her outburst (fear of being alone... or as others have said, childhood fears or issues coming out), you have some decisions to make.

Does she need some councelling? Does anyone really believe garments protect you on the way to the gym??? Someone to help her deal with reality/ versus her need for security so much she believes in fantasys.

Does she need more explanations from you, slower, about what you've found out about the church
?
Do you need a lawyer?

Good luck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2013 12:43AM by karin.

I am a strict believer of "Don't say things you don't mean." One minute of spewing mindless crap can do incredible damage to a relationship. Some things you can't (or won't be allowed to) take back. No matter how apologetic someone is, some things just hurt too deep.

That being said, most of what your wife said is just TBM babbling. However, there was one line that struck me and concerns me more than the others - "-I could have married 10 other guys better than you."

If I were you, I'm not sure I would be able to let that line go. Besides being a personal shot below the belt meant to totally crush you, usually something like that doesn't come out of someone's mouth UNLESS it is something they have been giving considerable thought to.

I have known several TBM women (my ex included) who felt as if they "settled" for their spouse when they got married. They made themselves miserable thinking the "grass would have been greener" if they would have married someone else, perhaps a former boyfriend or held out for someone else. This is the red flag that was raised with me when I saw that your wife had told you "I could have married 10 other guys better than you". Perhaps she has been spending a lot of time thinking about those 10 other guys who she feels would have provided her with "greener grass". Perhaps that is why she brought up divorce so quickly. Just sayin'.

If things with you and her don't get back to normal soon, I would be concerned. She may believe that there are 10 guys out there that can give her a better life. If so, your days of having a happy, loving, relationship might be over. She's just not into you anymore.

Best of luck to you.

P.S. During one of the last fights I had with my ex, she yelled at me, "There is nobody else out there who will put up with your crap!!" I remember thinking, "You know what, I've been stuck in this horseshit marriage for 19 years. I think I'll take my chances." It turned out she couldn't have been more wrong. The problem wasn't me.

With respect to stressed romantic relationships, but here it is again:

Based on personal experience, and that of some other close friends, I would not discount the possibility that the OP's wife has started reaching out to old boyfriends / flames on social networking sites or even in person. If she's been communicating with other potential romantic interests, that could explain the anger, and the disproportionate emotional intensity of her reaction.

My 2¢.

Thanks to everyone for the posts, I appreciate the insight.

Sorry to the folks thinking this thread would be nice and sexy, I wish even more than you that it was.

To fill in a few holes that other posters have commented on:

-Gym exercise is part of what I get paid to do, so, its considered me going to work, not recreating. She expects it, its how her credit cards get paid off.
-I did not raise my voice during this ordeal, I don't raise my voice in general.

Now, let me return and report on the happenings of the 25th.

After the meltdown on the 24th, it was lights out and everyone to bed. I had decided to let this thing ride and say nothing else until after the new year. The first two things I hear this morning are.

"Daddy, Santa left a huge box in the living room and we need you to come help open it (The sun rays pierce the clouds in my heart, just like a movie)

Then a growl from the other side of the bed.

"Soooo... are you wearing you garments today? If not, you need to stay home while me and the kids go visit my family."

I'm thinking WTF to myself, its Christmas morning and that's the first thing she says. In an effort to prevent my childrens Christmas day from going up in flames, I reluctantly put them on, yuck. I now feel like Joe Smith himself is the ghost of Christmas present.

Gift opening starts at 7:00AM and I am getting the solid cold shoulder, not even a glance, I don't exist to her at this point. At least my beaming little ones are excited and I make every effort to not let this spoil their morning.

I'm now in the shower, its 10:00AM, I'm now about to make first contact, she pokes her head into the bathroom and says in a growling tone,

"You really need to get your act together and start doubting you doubts, if you don't, I'm getting a really good attorney."

I respond,

"I think Elder Uctdorf in the same talk said that you should really offer respect to those who don't think the same as you, specifically, that you can't assume their desire to leave is based on sin or being offended."

She responds,

"I don't really care what that talk says (oh really, you just quoted it), plus, your a liar, nine years ago you made a temple covenant to me to love me and take care of me, now that your leaving the TSCC, you'll want sex with other women and porn (I only wish I could wrap my head around her weird fascination with sex and exmo's)"

I respond,

"Actually, I plan to stand to my vows, nothing has to change, I don't disagree with TSCC points on maintaining and feeding a healthy marriage."

She Responds,

"Well, you'll be breaking your covenant with God, therefore your breaking your vows with me. Our whole marriage has been a waste of my life (WTF!! I'w thinking). I always thought you were a risky choice, your independence has been way to much for me to handle, now your independent thinking has turned into selfishness (apparently leaving the TSCC is considered selfish even though the 11th article of faith suggests otherwise). Your selfishness is going to ruin this family. I'm thinking its time to end this."

I make the best of the day with other family and the children, but between me and the wife, nothing the rest of the day, she doesn't even respond when I engage in conversation. Even though I'm pretty convinced at this point this train has reached the end of its line, I'm still going to take my time and see what happens.

Lessons learned today:
-I think she really does want to divorce me
-Real people with real emotions and real lives are not as important as the fairy tales told in young womens
-At least this TBM thinks exmos want to have sex with everyone once the mind lock is removed
-I think I'm dealing with an abusive individual


Just in case, anybody know of a good attorney for handling crazy TBM divorces?

It sounds really hellish from where you're standing. But I have a feeling that a few years from now, you'll be thinking she's done you a huge favor. You can never be happy with a sociopath.

I'm wishing you all the luck in the world. Ending your marriage might be all for the best. Even for the children. It's a myth that keeping a marriage together at all costs is best for them. It isn't.

I'm sorry you had to go through that, especially at Xmas.

I also don't think a divorce is always the end of the world for kids. My parents have been married for 62 (mostly) miserable years, and I can't tell how much I wish they had divorced. Their bickering, yelling, and aggressive/passive agressive behavior is toxic and has had a very negative effect on my two siblings and me all our lives.

Your wife sounds like she is totally brainwashed in Mormonthink. Funny how a church that's so family oriented can produce such monstrous behavior in people, and ruin marriages left and right.

Do what you have to do. Frankly, I wouldn't put up with her behavior and the extremely cruel things she said to you. It sounds like she's completely over the edge. If she won't agree to counseling, save yourself, and consult with a lawyer. Your kids shouldn't be exposed to her abusive rage.

JMHO.

My very best to you.

Yea - mine too-- +1

Get a lawyer first and talk about how you can get the children from her. She will abuse them imho when you are gone. Then give it to her with both barrels.

Wow. That was painful. I'm really sorry you had to hear that at all, let alone on Christmas. It's very telling about her character that she would do this on Christmas Eve in front of the children and on Christmas day.

She is abusive and manipulative. Her way or the highway. If this is her norm, the highway sounds a lot better. Keep protecting your children, but protect yourself too.

Retain an attorney for advice on your options and how to best proceed. Record her diatribes and save them someplace safe in case you need the proof later or to let her know that if character assassination becomes an issue, it will be corrected with some recorded information.

Best wishes to you and your children. Whatever you decide, I hope it goes as smoothly as possible.

Most people with Asperger's Syndrome can not feel empthay, unfortunately I am one that fits in that category, so I can not begin to understand what you are feeling right now.

But from what little I do understand, someone saying something that cruel, has no shame, and no soul for that matter.

Why she felt she had to say that and in essence ruin your Chirstmas is beyond my comperhension and several others for that matter.

I may be wrong about this, and I pray I'm wrong, but unfortunately it's a good bet that your marriage is over. Call the lawyers, make sure that your kids are taken care of, and make sure that she doesn't use the church to manipulate your relationship with your kids. Too many times have I read about ex spouses using the church to manipulate custody agreements, child support, and allimony payments.

That is a bit of a myth. I actually have so much empathy that i get overwhelmed with people's emotions but it does not mean i do not feel for them. Aspergers is not sociopathy. But i do want to be blunt and insult this fellow's wife for being mean on xmas over something so trivial started by a liar and fraud. Leave her.

I have read lots of stories on here where the TBM spouse feels their marriage is invalidated when the ex-mo spouse stops keeping their temple covenants. The church mixes itself up into every part of your life to make it hard to leave. I know some couples work through it but in your case your wife sounds so toxic I'm not sure I would want to make it work. She has said a lot of things that are hard to forgive. I wouldn't put up with it unless she apologizes and agrees to go to counseling.

Someone should put up a website like mormonshunning.org where stories like this are collected for the world to see. The church's PR-machine always emphasizes how family-oriented they are while, in fact, mormonism destroys families as well as individuals.

I truly am sorry for what you are going through.

Your mileage may differ on the following: My parents were ghastly as a couple. I wish they had divorced when we were little children. It would have been better than to live the hellish lifestyle we had to endure as children.

Sounds like investing more than nine years in this marriage would be a waste of energy. Get a good lawyer.

I am so sorry! My heart aches for you. I've been in a similar situation.

Yes, I would say (based on what you've written) that your wife is abusive. Here's why:

-- She has "meltdowns." She chose to put you through the emotional meat grinder on Christmas, knowing that you'd have to just "take it" so your kids wouldn't have their day ruined. I would bet this is not the only holiday she has done such a thing.

-- She's threatened by independent thinking. Abusive spouses are all about power and control. They define your reality and tell you what you are thinking.

-- She is telling you what your motives, intentions, and desires are and what you will do in the future. That's called "defining your reality" and is one of the hallmarks of abusive behavior.

-- She's blaming, shaming, and accusing you.

-- She's threatening to end the relationship because you've angered her.

-- She tells you that you will never do better than her and nobody else will put up with you; she's degrading you and trying to make you feel worthless. This is another common abuser tactic.

-- Sudden mood shifts: going from opening the box to the comment about garments and telling you you can't leave the house without them. Decreeing what you can and can't do is also something abusers do.

Read "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Dr. Patricia Evans ASAP. It will shed a lot of light into the dynamics of this relationship. I have not yet read "Abused Men" by Philip W. Cook, but it receives positive reviews.

I was in a highly abusive marriage for several years. When he announced he was dumping me (largely because I left TSCC), I was devastated and heartbroken because I really loved him. The divorce process was messy, frightening, and awful. Now, life is starting to get better, and I look back, thinking, "That was horrible and I'm glad I'm not his target any more."

Leaving an abusive relationship is a long dark journey, but there's light at the end of it and things DO get better. Good luck -- and yes, you need a good lawyer right away.

Go to thehotline.org and call the number there. They have information on free groups and classes near you. Go to one. It makes all the difference.

You poor guy
You sound patient
She sounds totally ******in the head

"Real people with real emotions and real lives are not as important as the fairy tales told in young womens."

Time for you to take action--if you ask my opinion. For one, she thinks she has the upper hand. Time for you to take the upper hand. For one--shock her. Say you want a divorce and go get a lawyer.

She sounds like a total bitch. Hell, I had a cheating gay husband and I never treated him like that.

And holidays are not just times for meltdowns, but also a time for marriages to end. Mine ended at the holidays. We suffered through Christmas. He left January 3rd.

I wish her well in the mormon single mother dating world.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2013 10:14AM by cl2.

Don't leave your house and kids until you've spoken with a lawyer! Tell her SHE can leave. Fight for full custody o f your kids so they don't have to live with her either!


So sorry, good luck.

I'm sorry for your pain. I'm sending good wishes to help you know we RfMers do care.

Love to the little kiddies.

Yes, must get rid of same-sex marriage. It is a threat to the institution of marriage. Course, not a big a threat as people finding out the truth about TSCC, but we don't count that one.

Mormonism certainly succeeded in turning her into a poisonous little viper. Good grief.

There is a spike in divorce filings in January by people who hung on through the holidays. Looks like her facade collapsed about 8 days early.

You sound like a pretty decent guy. Sorry you and the kids are being put through this. It may be a rough ride for a long while, but this too will pass.

When a TBM wife screams DIVORCE I always think someone should suggest she talk to a few TBM women who are divorced.

Their life in the morg is rarely wonderful.
Being a single parent is diffilcult, not having enough money even more so.

Ask her how she will feel when you show up with a new, younger wife who appreciates you.

Mormon women are believers of fairy tales, reality will bite.

I'm sorry you had to go through this on Christmas, and that she did that in front of the kids. I think you should talk to a lawyer right away so you're prepared for whatever happens next.

I was also in an abusive marriage myself, but when I told my ex-husband that I didn't believe in TSCC, he said he wanted a divorce. I called his bluff and was the one who actually filed for divorce, which was the scariest moment in my life as I did have to get a restraining order against him. In the end, he signed the papers so it wasn't as nasty as it could have been, with that divorce being finalized on January 13th.

Congratulations on your new life. I'm sorry your ex was an abusive a$$. Good riddance.

She sounds like a psychopathy, maybe sociopathy,.... No more psycho.
Seriously do not let her serve you with divorce papers beat her to it and document document document her behavior. Find a good non Mormon lawyer and get sole custody of your children. I know I come across strong but I worry about those children she will turn on them once your out of the home, especially if they begin to question allegiance to the Morg. I would quietly get all my affairs in order and sock it to her.

Will someone please post a link to the original thread? I can't seem to find it.

Your wife is a real piece of work. No man should have to put up with this.

I agree with Baura on the original thread that the wife's remarks should not be taken literally at the present time. Instead the OP should be responding to the fear, pain, anger, and disappointment that underlie the remarks. The wife's world has been completely upended. She is reacting fearfully and emotionally.

I would start by establishing some ground rules for communication, i.e. no arguing in front of the kids, no yelling, she is entitled to her feelings but is not entitled to take out her anger on the OP, etc. I would also give her some time to absorb and process the news.

It would do no harm to make a preliminary appointment with a good divorce attorney. Get some advice for how to proceed in case the wife files for divorce.

If the wife is open to it, couples counseling (with a non-LDS sponsored counselor) might also be a good idea.