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Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
There were many murders & massacres under his reign. A few happened before he took over. Haun's Mill Massacre, 30 Oct. 1838, for instance.
This is just a partial list of 'incidents' from 1849-1872:
Battle Creek
Gunnison
Walker War
Willie/Martin
Aiken Party Massacre
Mountain Meadow Massacre
Morrisite War
Bear River
Black Hawk - 1865-72
Circleville
Toquerville
Navajo War - 1884
Are there any other massacres, etc., besides the Navajo War, that took place after BY died?
This is just a partial list of 'incidents' from 1849-1872:
Battle Creek
Gunnison
Walker War
Willie/Martin
Aiken Party Massacre
Mountain Meadow Massacre
Morrisite War
Bear River
Black Hawk - 1865-72
Circleville
Toquerville
Navajo War - 1884
Are there any other massacres, etc., besides the Navajo War, that took place after BY died?
I know that at the time many believed Mormons were responsible, including Gunnison's widow, but one of those who reported on it, Judge Drummond, so thoroughly pissed in the well that the story "The Indians did it" will hold sway. My take is "it's possible Young was involved, but unlike MMM--where a "smoking gun" has likely been found--it won't be possible to pin it on the Old Boss.
You neglected to mention the killing of Dr. Robinson, and as for the "Navajo War" I'm wondering if that isn't a typo, with the year "1848" the intention (please provide some details if otherwise). The events that led to "The Long Walk of the Navajos" were largely orchestrated by the federal government and Kit Carson.
http://historytogo.utah.gov/utah_chapters/american_indians/navajoindians.html
You neglected to mention the killing of Dr. Robinson, and as for the "Navajo War" I'm wondering if that isn't a typo, with the year "1848" the intention (please provide some details if otherwise). The events that led to "The Long Walk of the Navajos" were largely orchestrated by the federal government and Kit Carson.
http://historytogo.utah.gov/utah_chapters/american_indians/navajoindians.html
SL Cabbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know that at the time many believed Mormons were
> responsible, including Gunnison's widow, but one
> of those who reported on it, Judge Drummond, so
> thoroughly pissed in the well that the story "The
> Indians did it" will hold sway. My take is "it's
> possible Young was involved, but unlike MMM--where
> a "smoking gun" has likely been found--it won't be
> possible to pin it on the Old Boss.
>
> You neglected to mention the killing of Dr.
> Robinson, and as for the "Navajo War" I'm
> wondering if that isn't a typo, with the year
> "1848" the intention (please provide some details
> if otherwise). The events that led to "The Long
> Walk of the Navajos" were largely orchestrated by
> the federal government and Kit Carson.
>
> http://historytogo.utah.gov/utah_chapters/american
> _indians/navajoindians.html
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know that at the time many believed Mormons were
> responsible, including Gunnison's widow, but one
> of those who reported on it, Judge Drummond, so
> thoroughly pissed in the well that the story "The
> Indians did it" will hold sway. My take is "it's
> possible Young was involved, but unlike MMM--where
> a "smoking gun" has likely been found--it won't be
> possible to pin it on the Old Boss.
>
> You neglected to mention the killing of Dr.
> Robinson, and as for the "Navajo War" I'm
> wondering if that isn't a typo, with the year
> "1848" the intention (please provide some details
> if otherwise). The events that led to "The Long
> Walk of the Navajos" were largely orchestrated by
> the federal government and Kit Carson.
>
> http://historytogo.utah.gov/utah_chapters/american
> _indians/navajoindians.html
HI KIDS
BY was dead before 1884. I think it was 1877. So the Navajo War would be not on his watch.
Sorry for the confusion. Here is where I got my info:
Denver, Col. May 13
The Navajo Indians, a large number of whom have been on the war-path for some time, are determined to murder the white settlers in the lower San Jaun country. About two weeks ago, a band of these Indians attacked a place named Mitchell's Ranch, about 150 miles to the south-west of Fort Lewis. Several white were seriously wounded and two Indians are known to have been killed. Nol news has since been received from Mitchell's Ranche, and it is believed that the white settlers, together with 15 soldiers, have been massacred. As soon as the news of the attack on the ranch was received at Fort Lewis, 15 soldiers were sent to the scene of the battle & these have it is supposed been murdered. A man named Pet Jensen a stage driver, brings the news to Durango that the Indians had gathered in force, about 800 warriors strong. Some of them had surrounded Mitchell's ranch and others were in the hills near by. There are 20 cow boys, 15 soldiers, old man Mitchel & his wife and their sons Edgar & Henry, and their wives, Peter Christman, working for Mitchell, Joseph Dougherty and wife, William Poland, who stopped for his stock to rest; Victor Neff and three children of Edgar Mitchell corraled by the Indians. This shows a total of about forty men, most of whom were probably well armed. The overwhelming force of the Indians would over power them at any time. The Indian Claimed that old man Mitchell killed the Indian who fell so early in the first fight, and that if he was given up they would go away and come back to trade as before. This, of course, was not done. If they got the old man they had to fight their way to him. The Indiahs told Ed Noland, a son-in-law of Mitchell's, who lives on the river, that they wanted "Old Belly Dechise", the name given Mitchell by the Navajos. The scene of the trouble is in Utah, on the Lower San Juan River, a little more than 100 miles from Durange and about 130 from Rica. It is in the country thickly inhabited at all season of the year by Navajos.
A later report brings the news that the whites have all been massacred, but whether the report is true cannot as yet be confirmed.
The New York Times
Published: May 4, 1884
Denver, Col. May 13
The Navajo Indians, a large number of whom have been on the war-path for some time, are determined to murder the white settlers in the lower San Jaun country. About two weeks ago, a band of these Indians attacked a place named Mitchell's Ranch, about 150 miles to the south-west of Fort Lewis. Several white were seriously wounded and two Indians are known to have been killed. Nol news has since been received from Mitchell's Ranche, and it is believed that the white settlers, together with 15 soldiers, have been massacred. As soon as the news of the attack on the ranch was received at Fort Lewis, 15 soldiers were sent to the scene of the battle & these have it is supposed been murdered. A man named Pet Jensen a stage driver, brings the news to Durango that the Indians had gathered in force, about 800 warriors strong. Some of them had surrounded Mitchell's ranch and others were in the hills near by. There are 20 cow boys, 15 soldiers, old man Mitchel & his wife and their sons Edgar & Henry, and their wives, Peter Christman, working for Mitchell, Joseph Dougherty and wife, William Poland, who stopped for his stock to rest; Victor Neff and three children of Edgar Mitchell corraled by the Indians. This shows a total of about forty men, most of whom were probably well armed. The overwhelming force of the Indians would over power them at any time. The Indian Claimed that old man Mitchell killed the Indian who fell so early in the first fight, and that if he was given up they would go away and come back to trade as before. This, of course, was not done. If they got the old man they had to fight their way to him. The Indiahs told Ed Noland, a son-in-law of Mitchell's, who lives on the river, that they wanted "Old Belly Dechise", the name given Mitchell by the Navajos. The scene of the trouble is in Utah, on the Lower San Juan River, a little more than 100 miles from Durange and about 130 from Rica. It is in the country thickly inhabited at all season of the year by Navajos.
A later report brings the news that the whites have all been massacred, but whether the report is true cannot as yet be confirmed.
The New York Times
Published: May 4, 1884
Well there are many smaller incidences under his reign.
There were the two men from the Powell expedition who were murdered in the Toquerville ward house.
Franklin McNeil was making headway with his wrongful imprisonment case against Brigham Young when he was assassinated.
Potter/ Parrish murders. 15 or so members of the ward met in the Bishop's home to plan the murders of the Parrishes who were planning on escaping Utah. Potter was the ward's double agent that got caught in the cross fire.
"Used up by the Indians" seems to be a common euphemism for when people who currently were in disfavor with the church ended up dead on a lonely road.
I would love a definitive list of all the people killed for being "enemies" of the church.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2013 04:16PM by crom.
There were the two men from the Powell expedition who were murdered in the Toquerville ward house.
Franklin McNeil was making headway with his wrongful imprisonment case against Brigham Young when he was assassinated.
Potter/ Parrish murders. 15 or so members of the ward met in the Bishop's home to plan the murders of the Parrishes who were planning on escaping Utah. Potter was the ward's double agent that got caught in the cross fire.
"Used up by the Indians" seems to be a common euphemism for when people who currently were in disfavor with the church ended up dead on a lonely road.
I would love a definitive list of all the people killed for being "enemies" of the church.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2013 04:16PM by crom.
Bear River Massacre was done under Col. Patrick Connor, 3rd California Volunteers US Army and was centered around a series of attacks on people headed to the Washington gold fields.
Several incidents on both sides led to escalation and the final battle including the US Army executing 4 Shoshone men held as hostages.
Given the friction between Connor and Young I doubt Young ordered the attack.
Several incidents on both sides led to escalation and the final battle including the US Army executing 4 Shoshone men held as hostages.
Given the friction between Connor and Young I doubt Young ordered the attack.
I think young provided porter Rockwell and a couple other Mormons as guides.
exactly, the church sent Porter to show the US army where the Indian camp ground was on the Bear River. They needed to get rid of the Indians to make the Oregon Territory safe for the white people.
I'm not familiar with most of those, but the Haun's Mill was Mormons being massacred, not massacre-ing. Not sure why you list that under "BY's reign of terror."
When I was active in TSCC, Brigham Young was my favorite prophet. When my family and I discovered all the lies, coverups, and absolute corruption from the get go in the church, I was stunned. It makes me wonder if I had been born then, would I have been one of the duped pioneers who believed this horrible jerk and followed him to Utah, no matter what happened to my family? Once you arrived in the valley, that was it-no hope of escape. It seems like if you agreed or disagreed with BY,it made no difference; you wound up dead,whether by starvation,privation,or murder.
Well, in three plus years, I've kept up the research, and I'm still learning.
What I said about the Gunnison Massacre is accurate. Captain Gunnison, who was part of the Stansbury Expedition that mapped the Great Salt Lake area in 1849-51, spent a year in Salt Lake City.
He wrote a modest bestseller exposing the practice of Mormon polygamy; my research leads me to believe this news preceded "the official" announcement by the Saints in the 1852 General Conference. Brigham Young selected Orson Pratt to deliver that news.
Gunnison was murdered in 1853 in Millard County, and his widow petitioned Judge Drummond to investige the killings.
History has not been kind to Drummond; Here's an account by the late Mormon Historian Harold Schindler. Hal was far more objective than most "LDS Revisionists":
http://historytogo.utah.gov/salt_lake_tribune/centennial_celebration/072395.html
Drummon left Salt Lake City after being threatened by no less than Bill Hickman, made his way to Carson City then San Francisco and sailed back to the East Coast.
An area I've learned more about and am still reading up on (Bagley tells me he mentioned the subject in "Blood of the Prophets") involves the Battle Creek Massacre in 1849 and the "Battle of Fort Utah" in 1850 (essentially another mass killing of Indians by white Mormons).
These actions allowed the Mormons to acquire the rich fishing areas where the Provo River fed into Utah Lake. Previously, the Timpanogos--a tribe separate from the Utes (Pahvants)--had lived in that area, and most of them were wiped out in the ensuing genocide.
So much for the LDS folklore that BY would rather "feed the Indians than fight them."
What I said about the Gunnison Massacre is accurate. Captain Gunnison, who was part of the Stansbury Expedition that mapped the Great Salt Lake area in 1849-51, spent a year in Salt Lake City.
He wrote a modest bestseller exposing the practice of Mormon polygamy; my research leads me to believe this news preceded "the official" announcement by the Saints in the 1852 General Conference. Brigham Young selected Orson Pratt to deliver that news.
Gunnison was murdered in 1853 in Millard County, and his widow petitioned Judge Drummond to investige the killings.
History has not been kind to Drummond; Here's an account by the late Mormon Historian Harold Schindler. Hal was far more objective than most "LDS Revisionists":
http://historytogo.utah.gov/salt_lake_tribune/centennial_celebration/072395.html
Drummon left Salt Lake City after being threatened by no less than Bill Hickman, made his way to Carson City then San Francisco and sailed back to the East Coast.
An area I've learned more about and am still reading up on (Bagley tells me he mentioned the subject in "Blood of the Prophets") involves the Battle Creek Massacre in 1849 and the "Battle of Fort Utah" in 1850 (essentially another mass killing of Indians by white Mormons).
These actions allowed the Mormons to acquire the rich fishing areas where the Provo River fed into Utah Lake. Previously, the Timpanogos--a tribe separate from the Utes (Pahvants)--had lived in that area, and most of them were wiped out in the ensuing genocide.
So much for the LDS folklore that BY would rather "feed the Indians than fight them."
> So much for the LDS folklore that BY would rather "feed the Indians than fight them."
From http://www.timpanogostribe.com
"It was the summer of 1847 our lives would be changed, a new people would come, not like the "big hats" of old. These people would build fences, claim lands and disrupt our culture and way of life. Bringing confusion as they spoke of their God and peace while sharing sacks of flour laced with broken glass. Brigham Young said "You can get rid of more Indians with a sack of flour than a keg of powder." Destroying us with what appeared to be acts of kindness."
From http://www.timpanogostribe.com
"It was the summer of 1847 our lives would be changed, a new people would come, not like the "big hats" of old. These people would build fences, claim lands and disrupt our culture and way of life. Bringing confusion as they spoke of their God and peace while sharing sacks of flour laced with broken glass. Brigham Young said "You can get rid of more Indians with a sack of flour than a keg of powder." Destroying us with what appeared to be acts of kindness."