It seems to be quite the jump on my part. I don't expect anyone to accept the reasoning to why I made the jump but I am looking for someone to understand me. My jump from mormonism to atheism was a long time in coming, but a hard one to eventually initiate and land. I loved the LDS church, in fact, I still do. I love the atmosphere, the kind welcomes, the friends, the memories, and togetherness that is ever so present in the LDS church. I still want the church to be true, I still want Joseph Smith to be who I thought he was, I still want the Book of Mormon to be a true story, I still want believe the temple is a magical place, I still want to believe in bible stories, Jesus, and the existence of God. I still want believe, but I will not suffer myself to be blind in order to do so.

For the sake of the forum, my name is "Big Hotch" and I am 20 years old. I just recently got married to a beautiful fellow Mormon woman two months ago. We were not married in the temple but at a church location by our Bishop. I had believed in the church since my life's beginning without question until the age of 15.

I had first requested a witness at the age of 7 before I was baptised, and none was given. We will call this The Grand Interruption. Naturally I was in high school and was involved in a biology class that would eventually introduce evolution. We will call this The First Interruption. I then attended youth activities and brought young member friends along with me and the neighboring wards did not treat our branch well. In fact, they were extremely rude to us because of our displaced location in the mountains and thought of us as uneducated rednecks. We will call this The Second Interruption. I then witnessed the church's campaign in Prop 8. We will call this The Third Interruption. I then took a physics class my senior year and an english class that often times would collide with my religious beliefs. I often times took the side of the church while internally I knew that the discoveries of science were more credible. I started to become a non-believer in denial at this point. We will call this The Fourth Interruption. I then went to college and started to meet people in all different forms of life. Many of whom my church had to referred to as sinners and worldly...though these people were more accepting and open minded than those of my upbringing. We will call this The 5th Interruption.

These five interruptions and the Grand Interruption are but a small number of the overall accounts that I would consider to have collided with my inner beliefs, thoughts, assumptions, and nature. These interruptions came extremely strong and they could not be ignored for they continued to follow me.

The Grand Interruption necessitates all the many events in my life where I have requested empirical data from God and have not received it. It it the interruption that had brought me to the conclusion that "faith" is not a sustainable source of strength and "Truth." It is the interruption that I had to avoid in order to fake the feeling of the Spirit. It is the interruption that would cause insecurities because of my personal lack in revelation and spiritual experiences. Eventually this interruption will drive deep depression and land me in a hospital due to heightened anxiety and suicidal tendencies.

The First Interruption necessitates the recurring bigotry and small-mindedness of many (not all) of church members in regards to persons whose beliefs were alien to their own or perhaps something as miniscule and ridiculous as living location. The assumptions, judgements, and bended truths or lies are something that I witnessed amongst member of all ages in many South Californian locations.

The Third Interruption necessitates all occurrences where church rules have caused hate and ridicule for such practices of homosexuality, tattoos, piercings, music, art, literature, history, and science.

The Fourth Interruption necessitates all of the internal battles that I fought regarding verifiable, quantifiable, observable evidence and the blind rationalizations of church doctrine or anything religiously taught in that matter.

The Fifth Interruption necessitates all the many times I have seen good in what the church has proclaimed to be evil or misled.

All theses interruptions are evident conflicts with church doctrine and church culture which can no longer be ignored.

After I had decided that these variables cannot be ignored I started to come out of a deep sleep of senseless faith. I had to know the facts and in order to do so I would argue (intellectually) with ex-mormons and atheists by learning their reasonings and bring up "valid" religious points (I use the word "valid" loosely and unofficially). But after time I saw that my argument in regards to theology was useless. It is all subjective and I didn't believe in the subjective, I believed in the objective more strongly (since I never recieved a witness), I believed in science.

So began to go that route. I wanted to find empirical proof support my "faith" and as you would imagine, I found none. So if there is no proof in the affirmative, what is there?

Oh was I in for a surprise...

I had found hundred of theories disproving my religion in a whole. I found sources debunking religion as a whole. But I didn't want to believe it! Instead I internally became a church apologist until the end of last year where I decided I didn't believe in the childish idea of a "devil" or "Satan." I then started to slowly debunk myself to a point this past week were I fully admitted to myself...I do not believe in a Devil or a person named "Satan."

And then the great question emerges...then why God?

I had now debunked my self of any religious hypothesis, I was now in fact an Atheist.

I then started to study evolution and some topics regarding the big bang and began to ground myself in the empirical proofs of science. Sciences was giving me so many answers while religion gave me none.

I decided "okay, if I can find one legitimate source that debunks the mormon church instead of slandering it, I will leave."

And I found so much! Books, articles, websites. Where there is smoke, there is bound to be a fire, and where there is no smoke, the opposite is also true.

I mentally saw a bar graph in my mind where the variable "not true" began to explode upwards and the variable "is true" not only began to dwindle but absolutely evaporate.

The lies, the stories, the cover ups cannot be ignored. So my name is Big Hotch and I am an ex-mormon, an atheist, and I love science.


So after deciding that yesterday, I am now struggling with it all. It's extremely difficult to change my life.

In the perspective of my mormon father I am a failure:
1) didn't go on a mission
2)got married young
3)a person whole feel away due to sin (which is wrong. I had done everything necessary to make things work)
4) a college drop out
5)taking my wife away from the church (though she makes her own decisions and has the same conclusion)

My Churches perspective:
1) young and uneducated
2) does not have faith because I didn't go on a mission
3) is a rebel
4) denies the spirit
5) asks to many questions

My perspective:
1) anything religious should not matter anymore because I am now atheist but it is difficult to mentally free myself from religious guilt
2) a person who loves science, business, computer, writing, music, and reading and I will pursue those hobbies my own way
3) a person who is alone, with the exception of a wife with nearly the same conclusions, that has to rebuild an entire new life outside the church

Where do I start? How do I begin?

I left a few years (in age) before you. This was back before the internet so my process was longer. I had to fight to get free of the garbage as I was a teen and my family wanted me to stay in the fold.

After I was old enough to make my own choices and live on my own I left for good. It was a lonely experience. I had to sit and think about the things I still believed in.

Being a good person
Having a purpose in life and the purpose being a worthy one
Being able to support myself
Making new friends and deciding where my life would lead

I had a few years of feeling REALLY lost. Almost by accident, but more by trial and error, I found a career that suited many of my new needs. There I met new friends and also the woman who is now my wife.

It will take time. It will be lonely. There is a purpose out there. The great part of being an atheist: You get to choose the direction and purpose of your new life. Make it a good one and good luck out there.

Thank you so much! I really appreciate your reply and will take it to heart!

Congratulations! It's so wonderful that both you and your wife are out together and agree on the decision. Where to go from here? Onward and upward! You are now in possession of your own life and consciousness, with your entire adult life ahead of you! Oh to have that opportunity again! Wishing you all the best, and hoping that this difficult transition goes as smoothly as possible.

Having traveled a somewhat similar path, my advice is to take it a step at a time. As your family and friends see you "slip away" the important thing is to not burn any bridges, especially with your family. You will (probably) always want them in your life, and if leaving the church causes a rift there will be a lot of resentment in your future. You are not, of course, in control of how they react, but you are in control of what you present to them that they will react to. Don't get in a rush to show them how awful the church is. (Everyone in my family is deeply entrenched in "the gospel," and I would LOVE to flame every one my uncle's f*cking stoopid hyper-mormon facebook rants because I KNOW I can prove him wrong... alas I end up biting my tongue a lot, but to me it's worth it) Just remember that you don't have to go along with their faith, but you don't have to go against it either. This will make your interpersonal relationships a lot easier.

Also, don't feel creeped out or discouraged when you find yourself occasionally wanting t go back. This is normal. Years down the road, I often find myself dreaming of being back in church and how good it feels to belong/how crappy it is to be in church/oh no! my wife and kid aren't converted. Then I wake up in the morning and rejoice it was just a dream and I NEVER have to go back to church again.

newlifeinvention Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I still want the church to be
> true, I still want Joseph Smith to be who I
> thought he was, I still want the Book of Mormon to
> be a true story, I still want believe the temple
> is a magical place, I still want to believe in
> bible stories, Jesus, and the existence of God. I
> still want believe, but I will not suffer myself
> to be blind in order to do so.

Yep, me too. But all my wanting it to be so, can't make it so. I'd rather try my best to deal with the reality, than fool myself into believing a fairy tale.

For many years I longed for the thing I missed the most in making the tradition to atheist -- a "magical" world view.

As the years have rolled by I now find that anything "magic" (beyond science?) would be a cheat to me -- meaning there would be something beyond control by mere mortals. I think now that it cheapens life (this life) which really is the end result of all Western religions. Always looking for a do-something-meaningless-in-this-life to secure a better life elsewhere.

I now see life much more clearly and try to maximize the things I do now to find the real joys of the only life that is real -- and I know I'm much happier now.

Dr. Marlene Winell talks about Religious fear.
There was a post either yesterday or today about it. It explains how your mind works when you find out you've been raised in religious fear. I think what she has to say will be very helpful to you and your wife.

I'm happy that you know now, and didn't find out when you turned 50. That's what i've been dealing with. Rebuilding thought systems at my age is not easy.

hey Big Hotch, welcome to the real world of non-delusion. Or at least making actual efforts to avoid as much delusion as possible.

I congratulate you on your successful choice. You are now free to learn and make decisions based on your own search for what makes you happy.

I think you are a talented writer and a very lucky young man to know so much in your twenties. I personally wasted 20 years of the most important years of my life in the church and didn't leave until I was in my mid forties.

Hi Big Hotch,
You are indeed a good writer. I might suggest that you write everyday about how you feel & keep talking with your wife about your feelings.

Most of us have been through the same path you're now on. Believe me, it does get better. In fact it becomes wonderful!!!!

I look at Science and doing good as my religion now. And although I can't possibly know with certainty that God exists or not, I find there are some things that are not harmful to believe in. I happen to feel that if it's just wanting to believe in an afterlife what's the harm? I want to, and there's no harm in it, so I choose to believe in one. Being in the real world doesn't require you to have certainty. That's just one of the things religion requires (especially Mormon).

I have happy memories of some of the really good & fun songs we sang in Primary. Like "Popcorn Popping on the Apricot Tree." and "Mother I love you." It seems only since the 80's that the church began brainwashing the kids in Primary with heavy Mormon doctrine; when I was a kid it more about fun songs & family.

I am so very proud of you for taking the difficult step of facing reality head on. You seem to have already found that science is much more fascinating & is a good replacement for the fake religious stuff. You're doing well. It may not feel very well for a while, but you'll look back in a couple of years and be so very grateful you didn't waste years in the church being worked to death (as my relatives are).

It's not necessary to tell you relatives of the conclusions you've come to. From a great psychologist: "You must be loved first to be believed." Facts won't get through the mind of a brainwashed person; they have to want to see reality.

You mentioned you feel you are poorly educated? Is there a possibility of taking classes at a local community college? If you now have a thirst for knowledge that might be a wonderful step to take. It's what I did when I quit believing in the church. I was only able to handle 1 or 2 classes a semester, but I finally got my degree. Sounds like a degree in one of the sciences or engineering might be fascinating for you.

We're all pulling for you. Please know that so very many people who've been through it want to help you as much as possible.

Have you seen the "Cosmos" series by Carl Sagan? It's marvelous and really brings out the spiritual wonders of science. Even though it's old & he wears 1970's clothes it's a great series. Maybe your public library has it?

whoops! I'm Sorry, I misread your original post regarding "uneducated." I see now that part is about how the church views you.

Please accept my apology.

You do sound like a person for whom Science or Engineering (& these days engineering is into all those sciences & pays much better) would be a great career.