Supposedly one popular question amongst ex-Mormons is: "should I have an affair?".

Dr. Love says the answer is: no. Here's why.

If there is a God, she/he/it/they does not make themselves manifest. If there is an unalterable cosmic standard of right and wrong, good and evil...same thing. As far as we can tell, we are alone in this universe, and all we have is each other to try to find joy, meaning, purpose, as well as sacredness.

Those things come about in a variety of ways; but one important way they do, is when we become women and men of integrity, honour, honesty, and devotion, and we enter into special, oath-bound relationships - parent and child, lover and lover, ally and ally, etc. - in which we value the sanctity of our oaths, and we get out of them over the long-term, more than we value the pursuit of our own changing pleasures or interests.

Sacrificing short-term pleasure and interest in the service of becoming women and men of true integrity can be a challenge, especially for people who have been in religions which co-opted the enduring truth expressed in Point 2 by requiring oaths which in fact are NOT based on anything real; so it is only natural for ex-Mormons and others to sometimes want to reject all covenants and oaths (since by definition they entail constraints) altogether.

But Dr. Love says, this is not wise. What is wise is to reject oaths based on lies - not oaths altogether - *for it is only within the sacred unions created by oaths that we can find our deepest, and most enduring, senses of belonging, love, trust, devotion, connection, joy, and sacredness*. Dr. Love says that if there is ONE thing we should have all learned from our experience in Mormonism, it is that - unlike the unreliable Joseph Smith, who never rejected a short-term satisfaction of pleasure for anything higher - we should *keep our words*, *keep our oaths*, *keep our covenants*. And if we reject them, we are really no better in principle than the shallow charlatan who founded Mormonism.

When a man or woman trusts us to remain faithful to them for as long as we are together, and we tacitly or explicitly consent to that, Dr. Love says that integrity requires that we keep that oath; not just for our partners, but for *ourselves*. As ex-Mormons, we must be what Joseph Smith never was: we must be men and women of truth - not duplicity; light - not obscurity; and honour - not disgrace.

If we are feeling bored in our relationships, we should be upfront about that with our partners. If there are specific problems, or we are not happy, we likewise should be upfront about that. If we, and our partners, are willing to work together to fix the problems, great; if one or both partners are unable or unwilling to make those changes, the next step should be obvious to ex-Mormons: we end the relationship, or at least, downgrade it. But before that happens, much can be discussed, and ought to be, so that we can do what Joseph Smith never could: live our lives by the light of truth.

Below are a few sentences that Dr. Love can suggest, all of which are far better than starting to step out on a partner, and by so doing, becoming someone as loathsome as Joseph Smith was:

"I need to talk to you. I am feeling bored: with us, with how things have been going, everything. Can I share a few things that I think would help?"

"Rick, I want to be honest: I am not happy. I am sure there are things I do which are difficult for you, and I would be glad to hear them; but here are a few things you're doing which are deal-breakers for me. I need them to change, and fast, or I see no future for us".

"We've had a great time together, but I've been giving it a lot of thought, and I feel like we're growing apart. I'd like to take some time apart to figure out where I want to go with my future, and whether we should stay together".

"I love you, but more and more, I feel curious about what it would be like to spend time with others. How do you feel about being in an open relationship, at least for a little while?"

"Jane - I don't know how else to say this, so I'm just going to say it: I want to break up. I'd love to stay friends with you, but I want to tell you that I have come to a point in my life where I see I need to change direction".

So - in short, this is simple:

If it's not working, either try to fix it, or end it;

If you're unsure if it's working, take time for yourself, or else, downgrade the relationship so it is mutually understood that you see other people;

But *in the absence of those things*, do not cheat. Be a woman or man of honour and integrity, so that even if you do end up breaking up, your exes can only ever say, "they were great people; we just weren't a great match", and we can know that we are becoming the best versions of ourselves possible - and better than the duplicitous guy who started the religion we have rejected. Once you break up, or open things up with the awareness of your partner, you can experiment. Before that...keep your promises. That's what authentic and good people do.

Thus saith Dr. Love.

Amen.

your input is fantastic.

He was older and my immediate superior at work. I was flattered by the attention and I was very, very tempted. The girl always gets hurt and they man usually comes out unscathed. I also didn't want his wife coming by my house at two in the morning.

Monica Lewinsky's life is still messed up.

I have been enjoying Dr. Love's advice... If he had only been around when I was in my early twenties *sigh ;-)

Dr. Love is wise.

Blah, blah, blah.

Did you know Albert Einstein had an affair?

Did you know he got caught?

Do you think you can pull off hiding having an affair if the world's smartest man wasn't able to do so?

That is all.

(I admit, I ripped this off of an old Leno joke)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2013 09:33PM by forbiddencokedrinker.

Just wondering what is prompting this from Tal?

Did something happen you want/need to talk about lol ?

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2013 12:45AM by libor.

Thanks for the excellent advice Dr. Love

Interesting that it was about affairs but it was also informative and revealing on many levels. I like the comparison and contrast to JS

Should be recommended reading for new exmos

Glo - It was prompted by a question from someone on my first Dr. Love thread, started a few days ago : )

I applaud you for giving a nod to open relationships.

Unlike some people...*cough*...John Dehlin...*cough*.

Dr. Love,

What is your advice for those of us dealing with the aftermath of finding out spouse had an affair? Spouse has cut all ties to the other person, but it is still a very touchy/painful issue.

Trying to work things through to stay married.

Looking forward to hearing your advice...

She had the affair. We got divorced, then had counselling which seemed to help. Nine months later we got divorced again, there were too many things that weren't fixed to get remarried again.

Although some couples work it out and have a good marriage after an affair, I go back to the wisdom of Jerry Seinfeld. He said "Once milk has spoiled it doesn't get better by putting it back in the fridge".

Anonanoni

Sincerely sorry to hear about your situation.

Good for you for seeing if there's a chance to reconcile.

This is a sensitive subject; and because there are so many possible variables, it is hard to speak definitively on the subject. But here are a few things to consider. Maybe they will apply to your particular case, maybe they won't - but here they are, for whatever they're worth.

1.) The normal thing after an upset like this is for the couple to go to counseling.

There is nothing wrong with counseling per se. However, there IS something wrong with many counselors, in the sense that a surprising number of them, despite being amiable and empathetic and good listeners, turn out to be fairly useless.

One reason for this is that counselors these days tend not to operate from some clear moral framework, in which certain things are right, and other things are wrong, with various shades of grey in between, but rather, from an essentially amoral standpoint in which *nothing* is particularly right or wrong, and "listening", "empathy", "understanding", "non-judgmentalism", and "facilitating communication" are the highest values.

Life is not actually like that; hurting people to satisfy your own selfish pleasure is not a good thing to do. Everyone knows it (except counselors, it sometimes seems).

So, if you go to counseling, choose wisely. Choose one who can sensitively help one or both parties accept responsibility for their actions, and help them *do* what they need to do to repair the damage and hurt they have caused.

2.) Once you find a good counselor, be clear about what your goal is. For example, "I'm here because I would like to be able to fully trust my wife again. I believe that will require her to make important changes to her behaviour, and I know I will need help giving her a chance to do that". Like that. Ensure that your counseling sessions stick on that goal (of course, it is fine for your wife to articulate her own goals, too. Like, "I need help in strengthening myself so that I can better confront marital problems in the future, rather than just stepping out. And I need help in knowing how to win my husband's trust back".)

3.) Your spouse severing contact is not enough. Genuine remorse, genuine acceptance of a special burden to behave more trustworthily, genuine behaviour changes targeted toward rebuilding the aggrieved partner's trust, etc., are all required for the cheatee to feel trust again.

If, by some chance, your spouse is still kind of in the "it just kind of happened" zone, or "I already told you - I'm not contacting him again. Can we drop it now?" zone, and isn't assuming the mantle of a Penitent but Determined Warrior Queen who will repair the damage to you and your family, I would say you are still in the trouble zone.

And if you are, the honest truth is, I'm not really sure what you can do about it. As I have found out the hard way, you cannot make people feel the things we think they ought to feel, or that *we* feel...sometimes, they change, and we never understand why (and they don't, either); sometimes, bridges broken can never be repaired; sometimes, in the end, there is no way back.

But sometimes there is. If your spouse can front up, fully accepting responsibility for her behaviour, and fully re-dedicate herself, not just in word, but in deed, you have a shot. That can happen with a counselor's help, or you can do it on your own, too, if you're both on the same page.

Throughout that journey, my suggestion for you is, stay centered, focused on goals both personal and marital, and re-dedicate yourself to becoming the best version of yourself you can be (independent of what's going on with your spouse). Hit the gym, pursue some new passion, drive ahead in life with purpose and a stoic certainty that no matter what happens with your spouse, you will be okay - you will survive, and thrive, and learn to love and trust again: hopefully with her, but if not, with someone else; and though it stings like sixty now, in the end, you will emerge stronger, wiser, and happier than ever.

Good luck, my friend.

Dr. Love

Thank you for your well thought out advice! I especially appreciate the reminder to improve myself independent of the situation, which I have been forgetting to do. Best regards!

Glad to know this.

I've been trying like gangbusters to have an affair.

Turns out it's not as easy as the movies make it out to be.

Thanks for letting me take myself out of the running.

LOL!!

Depends on a number of factors including age, outer beauty, etc. As an older dumpy menopausal woman, ummm much harder...closer to impossible. lol

Cynthus and Baura

Dr. Love says, if you have a fella, and he's not a bad guy, stay loyal him. Be the kind of woman he believes you to be (and if he is a bad guy, dump him, then go sow your wild oats).

All you'll get from an affair is sporadic sexual pleasure (which I presume you can get from your fellas anyway), vanity-stroking (there are ethical, and easier, ways to get that), the knowledge that you're not a trustworthy person, and possibly, disease, and other complications and life problems you're better off without. Most of all, having an affair will mean that you are a person who lives in an inauthentic, deceit-filled, double life - just like Joseph Smith, Jr. Dr. Love says screw that. We're supposed to be *better* than that sociopathic charlatan, not the same as.

If your fella is a dud as a lover, let him know sensitively what sorts of things you'd more appreciate (feel free to ask Dr. Love for more specifics if you need them). Otherwise, save yourself a lot of potential hassle, guilt, grief, disease, personality-splitting, etc., and be awesome women who keep your promises. Maybe together, behaving better than losers like Joseph Smith did, we can make this godforsaken, lonely planet a slightly better place :). With you all the way on that.

Out,

Dr. Love

a joke - a tasteless joke, but still a joke ;-)

I do have a great guy and he has been there through sickness and health. I wouldn't even look in another direction-- We have been together for 20 years and I am grateful for having him in my life--