I can finally tell this story. I no longer work for the same company or with the woman, so I feel I can finally tell the story of The Mormon Woman and Gay Marriage.

3 days after I had started a new job, the subject of gay marriage came up in a conversation with a woman that worked with me. During he discussion, she revealed that she was Mormon and I reviled that I was gay. She was anti-gay marriage, I, of course, was pro gay marriage.

Of course I was able to counter every argument she had against gay marriage. She tried to claim that the LDS church was not involved in Prop 8, I asked her why they reported that they were and later fined for under reporting their involvement if they were not involved. You should have seen her face when she realized she could not deny what her church admits.

In the end, she put an end to the conversation with "I don't care about all of that, I will support any other gay rights, but I will fight against gay marriage for the rest of my life".

A few weeks later, she announced that she was getting married. For weeks there was a constant barrage of wedding plans. She was so excited and happy.

Then one day, she was bubbling about her wedding plans with another woman. I was trying to ignore her. She then looked over and said "Poor Matt, he must be so 'over' all this wedding talk".

I looked at her and said (condensed version):

"No, I am not 'over' it. I am happy and excited about you getting married. But ever time you talk about it, it reminds me. It reminded me of the happiness and excitement you are enjoying, but that you would deny me. It is not about being over it, just every time you talk about it hurts me deeply. I wish I could be happy and participate in your excitement, but it just hurts too much."

You should have seen her reaction and the reaction of the woman she was talking to.

From that day on, she never brought up her wedding around me. If someone else brought it up and I was around, she would change the subject.

Did she have no idea that telling me that she would oppose gay marriage for the rest of her life was hurtful? Did she really need it spelled out to understand?

Phhhht.

Thanks for sharing that poignant story, MJ.

Prop 8 ruined many relationships with my oldest TBM friends and many family members. They seemed to be completely blind to the terrible pain that the fight caused in a community that had been painted as evil and less than human for decades.

It seems to me that most Mormon cultists seem to need a class of people, or classes of people that they can hate, look down upon, discriminate against, and most of all, be afraid of.

Mormons live in an echo chamber which only reinforces the concepts that they have been brainwashed to believe. Most have probably discussed LGBT people and issues, but I'm guessing that very few have had those discussions WITH LGBT people.

Well, within a couple of years they will suffer complete defeat on the issue of gay marriage. Sadly the response from most Mormons will be that it's yet another sign of the Last Days and the coming apocalypse.

sonoma Wrote, in part:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It seems to me that most Mormon cultists seem to
> need a class of people, or classes of people that
> they can hate, look down upon, discriminate
> against, and most of all, be afraid of.
>
=====================================================
Seems to me like most people who have that hatin'(using that as a catchall term even though most of these unpleasant folks would deny being haters... "Oh, I don't HATE them, they just need to blablabla...") mindset require this. Bullies, bigots, religious fanatics, etc.

My question is why?

How come some people gotta hate and some don't?

I agree. I also want to clarify a point I was trying to make. They also seem completely unaware that they are hurting anyone. They are also unaware that it is hate.

Well, they are not conscious.
They have no idea. Hence their surprise.

Likely you did awaken them somewhat.

Again, what are you talking about? according to you, I created that hurtful behavior because of my beliefs. Talk about blaming the victim.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2013 01:50PM by MJ.

Well said sonoma. The echo chamber comparison is exactly it.

Sorry went through that MJ.
Momentum of the continuing Renaissance will one day make her opposition moot.

Perhaps one day she might escape the cult and grow a little.

According to you, I created all that because of my beliefs.

Not buying that BS.

Hmmm - if you think I think this, I failed badly in trying to communicate.

All the Best.

Make a valid point then and don't just whine that we should read what Joseph smith wrote over and over. I do not see how you can claim " you create what you believe" then try to act as if my beliefs didn't actually create the situation and the hurt.

If I had actually created what I believe, then gays would already have equal rights and acceptance. Strange how it isn't my beliefs that is bringing that about, but my actions.

You are the one claiming "you create what you believe". That statement would imply that my beliefs created that situation, they did not.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2013 01:53PM by MJ.

I hear more and more from Mormons that are baffled that people call them bigots. After all they love gay people and all people. How could anyone not like them since they are only following their religion? They really seem scared by the rapid changes going on in society and seem to realize they are going to be on the fringe pretty soon. And of course they think it is all just so unfair and that they are persecuted.

Thanks for sharing that story. I like the fact that she was shocked when you told her that her excitement reminded you of the fact that she didn't want you to be able to have that same excitement. Is it possible that she learned something valuable? At least she changed her behavior. I just hope she did it for the right reason.

I keep thinking that somehow they don't get the LOVE part about gay marriage. Two adults who love each other and want to commit to each other is a beautiful thing. Why would anything else matter?

It was clear that I got to her. The question regarding her learning anything is up in the air.

Thanks for sharing that story, MJ. I think it is easy to deny people their rights when you don't know any of the affected people. But when you have a friend or coworker telling you how it impacts them personally, it gets a lot harder to keep denying them. Having openly gay people in my life moved me down the road to accepting gay marriage. Hopefully you planted a seed in that woman's mind that will take root one day.

This is one of the most important reasons as to why the gay community puts so much emphasis on coming out.

To me, there are three major reasons for coming out:

1) The mental health of the individual. I believe that for a gay person, staying in the closet is detrimental to their mental health.

2) Out of respect for their family and friends. People deserve the right to love/like you for who you are, not the lie you tell.

3) The reason you, summer, have stated. Having openly gay people in their lives changes how they feel about gays in a positive way.

Number 3 is the reason why I think the most important political step a gay person can make is coming out of the closet.

Mormons say they love everyone--Love the sinner hate the sin, they chant.

What they don't know is that there is a helluva lot more to LOVE than just regurgitating the word itself constantly as a way to make yourself sound benevolent and superior.

It is an action verb.

During my life I have encountered many gay and lesbian people at various workplaces and in my extended family. My wife's little brother is gay. He went on an mission and was sent home and disfellowshipped. After decades of depression and suicidal thoughts he finally met a man and got married in SanFrancisco several years ago. He is now quite happy and productive, though still bitter toward TSCC, which I completely understand. My genetic predisposition is heterosexual and I've come to understand that gay/lesbian people are also predisposed to their sexual preference. This has been going on all the time Homo sapiens have existed. It's just part of how our species evolved.

About fifteen years ago I worked with a woman who was married to a women and they had a couple of children via a sperm bank. They are a wonderful family. A man I work with now is someone I admire greatly, not for being gay, but for being such a great human being.

Meeting and getting to know people of various cultures and beliefs has really opened my eyes and heart. I love open and honest people who are willing to just be human beings. That's why I like this site so much. I know there will be people everywhere that I will love less and even come to despise, but that's life.

Regarding gay marriage, I feel that if two adults want to make a longterm commitment then I'm all for it. The more productive and happy people there are, the better the world will be. And I'm all for the tax laws being changed to allow married couples who are gay/lesbian the tax advantages of any married couple.