Thanks to all the veterans and military families for serving in the armed forces. I think of you all daily even if I do not post it.

Happy Veterans Day

Thanks!

You're welcome. (US Army 1995-1999)

But seriously all of this Veteran homage is propaganda. Having "served," I can give an inside perspective that the military is not much more than a glorified job. We get up, we eat, we work, we eat some more, we work some more, we move a lot, we wear matchy-matchy outfits. Billions of taxpayer dollars keep us going. Not a lot of "service" goes on.

Instead, let's dedicate one day a year to grocery store workers without whose daily service we wouldn't have food to bring home to our kitchens.

Let's dedicate one day a year to homebuilders without whose work we would have to build our own homes or scramble for whatever shelter we could find.

Let's dedicate a day to honor water sanitation workers without whose service we would have very dirty water.

Yellow ribbons and military homage is propaganda, folks. Open your eyes. Let's appreciate the true necessities in life that we're so fortunate to have. Food, shelter, water, etc.

I recognize that for many people like yourself, military service is a job...

For others, it is a life-altering experience - and not always for the better. I have a close family member who never recovered from his experience killing someone who was "just a 19-year-old-kid" doing his job just like himself.... I have a related-by-marriage relative who became an alcoholic from the trauma he experienced during Viet Nam.... and I have a very close friend who lost his family because of his time away from them while serving.

I did not serve personally in the military - but I recognize that when you sign that piece of paper, you do not know whether it will be a job with decent benefits or whether it will place you in a war-zone where you might get killed or worse.

It is for this reason that I thank everyone who served - no matter what their service was.

Thank you for your service. Thank you to all the Veterans today. Thank you to all the family members and friends who sent and supported their loved ones.

So true nevermo

i have a 22-year-old cousin who just finished a 4-year navy stint, including an almost 2-year tour of duty in Afghanistan. He was in a technical field, so it's not as though he was on the front lines, but he still had to get in and out of there, still had to be issued a rifle, still slept in what is technically a danger zone every night, etc. he came home a chain smoker because the smokers got more break time, and he was too young, too dumb, and too lacking in future orientation to realize that the extra breaks each day were not worth the possible lung cancer or COPD. As far as whether or not he'll have the strength to quit, only time will tell. At least his mother left the morg, so while she's anti-smoking and wants him to quit in the worst way possible, mormonism, Joe Smith's revelation as detailed in D & C 89, and the whole LDS guilt trip are left out of the equation.

I'm thankful for your service along with the other things you mentioned that I should be thankful for.


Never Mo but raised Fundie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I recognize that for many people like yourself,
> military service is a job...
>
> For others, it is a life-altering experience - and
> not always for the better. I have a close family
> member who never recovered from his experience
> killing someone who was "just a 19-year-old-kid"
> doing his job just like himself.... I have a
> related-by-marriage relative who became an
> alcoholic from the trauma he experienced during
> Viet Nam.... and I have a very close friend who
> lost his family because of his time away from them
> while serving.
>
> I did not serve personally in the military - but I
> recognize that when you sign that piece of paper,
> you do not know whether it will be a job with
> decent benefits or whether it will place you in a
> war-zone where you might get killed or worse.
>
> It is for this reason that I thank everyone who
> served - no matter what their service was.
>
> Thank you for your service. Thank you to all the
> Veterans today. Thank you to all the family
> members and friends who sent and supported their
> loved ones.

We do have a day to honor the workers. It's Labor day.

On Labor Day we just hear more about the military. I'm telling you folks, Americans have been brainwashed about how glorified the military people are. A large percentage of the military force is made up of young, physically healthy people whose families have done them wrong, have slight mental problems, a slight disregard for the value of life, and a slight fascination with death. I worked alongside these people for 4 years. Other servicemembers are young men supporting their young wives & young families. Quite a few alcoholics in the military too. It's a giant government welfare system where people show up to work every day and rely on the govt to provide for everything they need.

Not to dump cold water all over Veterans' Day. Just keeping it all in perspective.

Yes I'm grateful to have "served," and I'm grateful for all others who "serve," but really I'm a lot more grateful for grocery stores, houses, and clean water.

I thought it was quite telling when I served (mostly Cold War days). Seemingly everyone I served with was against so-called "socialized medicine," ranting and raving about it being "like Communism." I looked around, and saw how we military were enjoying health care not only for us, but for all our dependants. If you included the commissary and Army and Air Force Exchange Service, we also enjoyed Soviet style subsidized and centrally managed stores. Along with that, there was also the shoddily given veterans' health care to look forward to, complete with long waiting periods for treatment and surgery with questionable outcomes--just like the Communism under the Warsaw Pact countries.

Cludgie, good point. Yes, in basic training a drill sergeant commented that we were serving a free country but the military operates as a communist society. He said it more concisely, can't remember his exact phrase.

Sad, Lenina, that you are leaving out the fact that in the service a man or woman can be killed in an instant. Hey, if a grocery store worker has that much chance of death or a sanitation worker too, then why don't you tell us about that.....Geesh!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2013 03:57PM by honestone.

People die in the line of duty every day in all various occupations.

Lenina Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People die in the line of duty every day in all
> various occupations.


Sure. But no grocery worker can be ordered to place himself or herself in harms way, and, if he or she chooses not to, can be imprisoned or executed for dissertion.

Grocery store workers can quit if they don't like what's happening around them. Soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, and Coast Guardsmen can't.

USMC 2008-2013
I think what some of us disillusioned veterans forget sometimes is that people are saying thanks for being willing to die protecting this nation's liberties. Not that we actually are. We have lost too many to senseless wars, but that responsibility and blame is on the politicians and the people. I understand that it is hard for us sometimes having been through the military. It is true that the majority of us don't fight to defend freedom per se, but that most military members have other motivations: Money, job security, easiness of the job, medical, retirement pension, benefits, friendship/brotherhood, etc. I have seen my fair share of military guys getting drunk every night and spending all their money, fights, sexual assaults, assaults, burned couches, holes cut in fences, rape of local nationals in country you're in, etc.-Think college frat party. As I said, just remember it's not what you did, but what you were willing to do. I am sorry for all those who lost their lives in the military for corporate greed and egoism. I am sorry for those who bear the scars of war still; you face the real challenge, living. I am thankful for those who have died; for their willingness to do what some can't, and most won't. Semper Fi



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2013 05:19PM by secular.

Thank you Marine.

I salute you.
And our fallen.

- a disillusioned veteran.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2013 04:49PM by zenjamin.

Thanks, USMC.


secular Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> USMC 2008-2013
> I think what some of us disillusioned veterans
> forget sometimes is that people are saying thanks
> for being willing to die protecting this nation's
> liberties. Not that we actually are. We have lost
> too many to senseless wars, but that
> responsibility and blame is on the politicians and
> the people. I understand that it is hard for us
> sometimes having been through the military. It is
> true that the majority of us don't fight to defend
> freedom per se, but that most military members
> have other motivations: Money, job security,
> easiness of the job, medical, retirement pension,
> benefits, friendship/brotherhood, etc. I have seen
> my fair share of military guys getting drunk every
> night and spending all their money, fights, sexual
> assaults, assaults, burned couches, holes cut in
> fences, rape of local nationals in country your
> in, etc.-Think college frat party. As I said, just
> remember it's not what you did, but what you were
> willing to do. I am sorry for all those who lost
> their lives in the military for corporate greed
> and egoism. I am thankful for those who have died
> for their willingness to do what most can't, and
> some won't.

Please start your own thread and stop hijacking this one.

Shove it up your ass, lenina. Go live in a country where they'll stone your lousy ass for not obeying your man.

My son served in Afghanistan and came home suffering major PTSD for all the crap he went through. Jumped in a ditch to fish out his buddy's blown to bits body and held him as he drew his last breath.

My dad fought at Iwo Jima and he, too, was lucky to make it home. Pull your head out of your ass and have some respect for those who have made it possible for you to be on this site pitching shit at others....or clear the fuck out!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2013 11:05PM by GetTheLedZepOut.

It was an Honor to serve.

It gave my life direction and purpose, and I'm thankful there's a day set aside to commemorate all those who've served.

Yes, thanks for all RFMers who were or are military, and to everyone else in our country who has served. WE honor you this day.

thank you!!

My son is in the Army. mentally, physically fit. He chose to go in because he thought he could make a difference. While in Afghanistan he was with a group that prevented a car bomb from going off among other things that he did. He and his group saved many people. My son is in special forces and defuses bombs.
Agreed, that he has stories of the type of people Lenina describes, but there are more that are in it because they want to be and really do serve their country.

In Flanders Fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

I'm sorry for being a pedant. I just got back from a Remembrance Day ceremony and I'm feeling more patriotic than normal. I feel the need to sticking up for my Canuck history and culture...

Just in case anyone doesn't know, 'In Flanders Fields' is very much a Canadian poem, written by a Canadian man about a military event which happened to Canadian forces during WW1. It's a brilliant poem and one each child in Canada learns about in school and through it learns about WW1 and Remembrance Day.

Just sayin'...

Carry on.

Great Fan of the Canadians, more than ye know.

Can you move there, as a yank?

Thanks for the literary lesson. We (my veteran live-in-love and I) have those little poppies, that the Vets give out, all over the place. It is a daily reminder to me of sacrifices made by others. Thank you to the Canadians who inspired it and the Canadian who wrote it and thank them all for sharing it.

For some, military service may be or have been just a job, but the job becomes a terrible thing when peacetime turns to war.

I, too, have a son who served during wartime. Three tours to Iraq and one to Afghanistan. He was lucky enough to return physically whole, but parts of his soul were left behind and I don't know that they will ever catch up to him.

The damage to our soldiers, physical and mental, over the years is a tragedy and mind-numbingly horrific.

"Thank you" is the common phrase, but it is more heartfelt and sincere than imagined.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2013 10:43AM by Laban's Head.

Lenina served in 95-99. Peacetime. And I think Lenina is just jealous of those it left behind in the service. Those who surely went on to leave their families for a year at a time to risk their lives in the middle east. Sorry you suck, Lenina, but at least you still qualify for a free veterans day lunch at Applebees. Go get it and try to be gracious.

Do we really need to tell others that they suck?

brook Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lenina served in 95-99. Peacetime. And I think
> Lenina is just jealous of those it left behind in
> the service. Those who surely went on to leave
> their families for a year at a time to risk their
> lives in the middle east. Sorry you suck, Lenina,
> but at least you still qualify for a free veterans
> day lunch at Applebees. Go get it and try to be
> gracious.

I'm not the one you need to be shaming. I have close family who died fighting for our freedom. I will not stand by quietly when some idiot disrespects an entire group of people. Most of which are hard working, honest, give their lives for your freedom kind of people. So, yes I feel the need to tell someone when they suck. --I'm being kind here.

You've suffered and sacrificed.

But do we really need to be so denigratingas to tell others they suck?

brook Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not the one you need to be shaming. I have
> close family who died fighting for our freedom. I
> will not stand by quietly when some idiot
> disrespects an entire group of people. Most of
> which are hard working, honest, give their lives
> for your freedom kind of people. So, yes I feel
> the need to tell someone when they suck. --I'm
> being kind here.

Shucks.
Lenina - I actually understand.

Lelina is simply reminding us that all systems are their own traps.

These are precisely similar to the Mormon organization. All of them. The parallels are astounding, for those who have been there long enough to see clearly. These are exactly precisely alike.

Was the death warranted?

Does anyone remember Ploesti (1 Aug 1943)?
Was their sacrifice justified?
If it was so important - why does no one remember?

"Honor the veteran and the bravery, the sacrifice.
But let us not be seduced."

Thus spake Lelina.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2013 08:29PM by zenjamin.

zenjamin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shucks.
> Lenina - I actually understand.
> ...
> "Honor the veteran and the bravery, the
> sacrifice.
> But let us not be seduced."
>
> Thus spake Lelina.

+1

We're having a special dinner with the best wine we own to celebrate DH's service which I very much appreciate.

Gratitude to every veteran reading this who might feel underappreciated. If you served honorably without turning bitter like the poster above, I congratulate you as do many who might not post but feel as I do.

Listen… I am the daughter of an Air Force officer and the wife of an Army officer. Some of what Lenina says is true… But, the fact remains that when you sign that paper, there is no telling where you might end up and what shape you might end up in when you come home. My father is a Vietnam vet, an alcoholic, and a man with PTSD. I suffered the effects of his time in the military. On the other hand, my husband went to Iraq and came home mostly okay. But he was very lucky, because there are definitely no guarantees.

I have known a very few folks in the military who were just looking for an easy paycheck and benefits, as Lenina suggests, … but the vast majority of the people I have known who have served have been outstanding people who really do deserve thanks for their sacrifices. Frankly, their families especially deserve thanks for all they do, too; it's not easy being a family member or spouse of someone in the military. Most of the people I have known who have served in the military (and there have been many) deserve nothing but respect for what they have done.

In 2014, my husband will retire with about 30 years of service and he is truly one of the best people I know. He's not some slacker welfare case looking for someone to thank him. He has loved being a soldier and has done very well for himself and good things for our country. You don't have to honor him, but at least try to show some respect. Not everyone who joins the military is looking for welfare or an easy paycheck…. and really, when you are in a war zone, paychecks do not come easily. And this country needs a functioning military, preferably staffed with competent people who actually want to do the job rather than draftees.

Thank you to all of you who expressed thanks. To those who think people in the military are just slackers on welfare, shame on you.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2013 10:28PM by knotheadusc.

+ 100

P.S. Hi Knotty!

knotheadusc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Listen… I am the daughter of an Air Force
> officer and the wife of an Army officer. Some of
> what Lenina says is true… But, the fact remains
> that when you sign that paper, there is no telling
> where you might end up and what shape you might
> end up in when you come home. My father is a
> Vietnam vet, an alcoholic, and a man with PTSD. I
> suffered the effects of his time in the military.
> On the other hand, my husband went to Iraq and
> came home mostly okay. But he was very lucky,
> because there are definitely no guarantees.
>
> I have known a very few folks in the military who
> were just looking for an easy paycheck and
> benefits, as Lenina suggests, … but the vast
> majority of the people I have known who have
> served have been outstanding people who really do
> deserve thanks for their sacrifices. Frankly,
> their families especially deserve thanks for all
> they do, too; it's not easy being a family member
> or spouse of someone in the military. Most of the
> people I have known who have served in the
> military (and there have been many) deserve
> nothing but respect for what they have done.
>
> In 2014, my husband will retire with about 30
> years of service and he is truly one of the best
> people I know. He's not some slacker welfare case
> looking for someone to thank him. He has loved
> being a soldier and has done very well for
> himself and good things for our country. You
> don't have to honor him, but at least try to show
> some respect. Not everyone who joins the military
> is looking for welfare or an easy paycheck…. and
> really, when you are in a war zone, paychecks do
> not come easily. And this country needs a
> functioning military, preferably staffed with
> competent people who actually want to do the job
> rather than draftees.
>
> Thank you to all of you who expressed thanks. To
> those who think people in the military are just
> slackers on welfare, shame on you.

Thanks to all the veterans who served and to those who are still serving. Though some may minimize your service, many of us appreciate what you have contributed.

My dad was shot in combat. After weeks in the hospital, they sent him back to his unit. I guess he was just greedily rubbing his palms together in anticipation of the veteran's benefits that, by the way, could never make up for the lifelong physical pain, the lifelong PTSD (undiagnosed because it didn't have a name then) that caused terrifying nightmares, and the lifetime of sorrow and guilt for not being able to save his Army buddies who died fighting next to him.

Only the scars from the bullets were visible (although not noticeable when covered by his shirt), but the PTSD, the guilt, and the grief were the worst battle scars. When the war was over, he drank to escape the pain and the memories but quit because my mom refused to live with an alcoholic. By the time my siblings and I were born, he was sober (and active in the church), but the PTSD-nightmares were regular occurrences for the rest of his life.

When he fell asleep watching TV and the terrible dreams came, I was the one who would wake him up. I had figured out how to wake him up from an angle where his flailing arms didn't accidentally knock me on my ass. I get tears in my eyes remembering the look in his eyes when I would gently shake him awake. From my kid-perspective, it seemed to take forever for him to wake up, but I'm sure it was less than a minute. At that moment, he was back in combat, not sitting in his favorite chair in our family room. When the dream-fog finally cleared, he would try to make light of it, "Oh, another bad dream." I'm sure the grocery workers Lenina knows have recurring nightmares from stocking shelves and dealing with rude shoppers.

One last thing, Lenina, when a grocery store worker risks coming home from work with debilitating PTSD or the kinds of injuries seen in the link below, your comparison might have some merit. I kind of doubt I will ever hear, "Body-parts cleanup on aisle 5."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2496053/Bryan-Adams-honours-war-heroes-forget-book-Wounded-The-Legacy-War.html

Army 1984 - Still Serving

Cold War 1984 - 1990 (watched the Wall fall from my post in Germany)

Pentagon 9/11 (in the wedge that was hit by AA Flight 77)

OIF 2007

I'm damn proud of my service. Lenina, when you have as much time as I've had in the saddle, when you've been responsible for over 200 people at the age of 28, been shot at, rocketed, known people who've died downrange, thrown track, been yelled at, yelled back, been covered in mud, sleepless and hungry because it was more important for your Soldiers to be fed and rested, you can talk.

Thanks to all my brothers and sisters in arms.

+ 100

John Drake Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Army 1984 - Still Serving
>
> Cold War 1984 - 1990 (watched the Wall fall from
> my post in Germany)
>
> Pentagon 9/11 (in the wedge that was hit by AA
> Flight 77)
>
> OIF 2007
>
> I'm damn proud of my service. Lenina, when you
> have as much time as I've had in the saddle, when
> you've been responsible for over 200 people at the
> age of 28, been shot at, rocketed, known people
> who've died downrange, thrown track, been yelled
> at, yelled back, been covered in mud, sleepless
> and hungry because it was more important for your
> Soldiers to be fed and rested, you can talk.
>
> Thanks to all my brothers and sisters in arms.

HM3 USN 1988-1994

On this day I think of my (British) relatives who have served in wartimes and my family devotes this day to remembering the service - and sacrifice - of all.

Imagine two world wars in one generation. Talk about called to serve. And they did their duty and put their lives on hold, for the duration or forever, however it worked out for them. I think of the pilots especially, whose life expectancies were low, counted in numbers of missions flown, in the single digits. And yet they didn't shirk.

And still the service continues. They are called, and they go, the most dedicated of first responders, heading into "war zones" while others are fleeing in the opposite direction (if they can).

U.S. Marines - among the first of the outside help to arrive in the Philippines:

“U.S. Marines stationed in Japan deploy to the typhoon ravaged Philippines to aid with search and rescue operations.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/relief-teams-battle-blocked-roads-to-deliver-aid-to-survivors-of-philippines-typhoon/2013/11/10/76d068bc-4a78-11e3-bf60-c1ca136ae14a_story.html


And a Canadian specialist unit and other troops deployed to the most desperate areas as well:

“…Canada's Disaster Assistance Response Team — an arm of the Canadian Forces that provides humanitarian aid — will deploy to the Philippines.

“… an eight-member advance team will arrive in the typhoon zone in coming hours, while another 35 to 50 personnel will leave Monday night on a C-17 from CFB Trenton with much of their equipment.”

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/typhoon-haiyan-survivors-in-philippines-desperate-for-aid-1.2422113

May those of us who have much, continue to give much, and always remember those who gave the ultimate possible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2013 11:34PM by Nightingale.

I have the upmost respect and my hats off to all of the military. My father is a Vietnam Vet and suffers for it as well. My grandpa served proudly in the WWII and Korean Wars. God Bless all of you and America.

US Navy, 1979-84

..
I admit you are not wrong some of your assessment about US military...
Take it from someone who spent his life in a Despot country in Middle East... Without US Military might Middle East East Islam Despots & Putin dictators would share & enslave most of the Planet....
The only reason they don't attack & take over is deterrent US forces, I knew this fact when I was in elementary school.

I don't worship flags, abhor pledge of allegiance.

It takes a great sacrifice, and a tremendous amount of bravery, to serve in the military. Thank you to all veterans.

British Army for over 10 years, got my brag rags in Northern Ireland, Iraq, Bosnia, Sierra Leone and worse. I saw and did some terrible things that haunt me to this day.

Never does a day go by that I don't think of my "brothers from different mothers" who never made it home.

Rememberance Day / Veterans Day doesn't glorify war - how can you glorify a living nightmare - it respects and honours those who have had the courage to fight and lay down their lives so that others don't have to.

Real courage is not about being fearless, it is about being scared shitless and still carrying on regardless.

I was in the Army 1987-1997. I read a little book written by Smedley Butler, USMC General, MOH X2, entitled "War is a Racket". It points out how wars are for profit with patriotism just a cover. I say bring the troops home and leave others alone.