I often see people on different boards and groups wanting to share their reasons with TBMs, leaders, and family about why they no longer believe or why they have left. These attempts are typically met with failure, disappointment, and rejection. A positive, loving response from people who say they “care” about you and “miss you” is seldom received. It is generally quite the opposite.

At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter a single bit because they aren’t really listening and don’t care. Any interest at all is really statement of their discomfort that they no longer see you “where you're supposed to be, sitting in your usual pew each week.” Deep down, it causes them to subconsciously feel discomfort about their own beliefs. Not all is well in Zion. Everyone's a “cafeteria” Mormon on some level. Whether they admit it or not, EVERYONE has a shelf.

I had one. It was industrial sized, industrial strength, and I thought it was bulletproof. That is, until I took a step back, and made a conscience decision to truly examine my beliefs and their basis. Truth, knowledge, and understanding became paramount to all other things. I had to follow the evidence, wherever it led. I could no longer just make the evidence fit whatever I had been taught to believe and not question.

One of the big questions now, it seems, is “what do I say?” when talking to TBMs who are attempting to get me to come back to church. They never listen, aren’t really interested in my “why”, and they just want it to be a one-way talk... with them doing the talking. It never ends up being a real conversation. It’s just an attempt for them to feel “ok” with themselves.

I’m not interested in that.

So, when people (pretend) to want to know why I left, I understand they are just looking for me to give them grounds to try and prove me wrong. Instead of listing reasons why, I ask them "What do you plan to do with any information I give you? What is your goal?"

(Wait for response.)

"Are you willing to give up your friends, your family, and even a life you've known since you can remember—all for truth?"

(If they say “yes”, ask if they really mean it and are they sure. If so, then you can discuss. Otherwise, almost all other responses can be handled with the following…)

"You don’t really want to know. People pretend to show interest in the real reasons why I left and then all they do is try to "Fix Me"... They’ve been taught to believe the only reasons people leave for are:

1.) Sin, or wanting to sin.
2.) They’re lazy.
3.) They’re offended.
4.) They never believed in the first place.
5.) They’ve been deceived.

There is NOTHING wrong with me because I no longer believe. I would suggest turning your eye back on yourself, and really question why there are so many Mormons leaving the church for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with any of those five things.

I left as an active, participating, temple recommend holding member. I shocked EVERYONE in my ward when I left. My reasons are REAL reasons. Not reasons of hate, of supposed offense or sin, but actual reasons of Doctrine. If you are honestly prepared to listen, and truly are seeking to understand, I will share with you and we can discuss like normal people do. But I'm not going to “cast my pearls before swine."

You say you have a strong testimony and it is built upon a rock. If that is the case, then you shouldn’t fear truth. You say you’ve seen it all before. If that is true, then you will have no problem discussing issues in detail with me. Your testimony, and the things that it is comprised of, should be able to withstand the disinfecting rays of sunlight that come with honest examination and thought. You need to be open-minded, willing to follow truth and evidence wherever it leads.

The Mormon Church teaches us that it is wrong to be open-minded IF you are already Mormon and to listen to other points of view besides the church. I'm sure you, like myself, grew up in the church and this is all you know. Sure you'll say, "I've got friends who aren't Mormon", "I went on a mission", or “I’ve looked at it all before”... But honestly, you have not for one moment of your life tried to open your mind and look at the LDS church in an objective mindset, willing to really examine what comprises your beliefs.

You have to have that moment and say to yourself, "What if it isn't true?" How would you feel… like your life is crashing before your eyes? Like everything you believed was a lie? Like you don't know what to believe anymore?

Sure it feels good to be a Mormon, to be part of the group, to feel special, and do the things they tell you is right. Why not? You've been told all your life that is what good feels like. Because of it, it makes you anxious and fearful when you think you might be doing something against that belief system (that others have built for you, telling you to just trust them, and not question anything) by examining it and using your God-given intelligence to form your own conclusions.

Understand, every religion has that tool (FEAR) as a way to keep members. If you ask questions, you lack faith, and Satan will get you. The story is the always the same… “Doubt Your Doubts”, unless and only of course if you belong to a different religion, and then to question and examine the basis of your beliefs is encouraged. Join the church, and then turn off your thinking and blindly obey.

You say that your belief is based on truth and has nothing to fear. If that is indeed true, then it can and should be discussed, examined, and dissected. When finished, it will still stand… if it is truth.

When looking for and understanding truth becomes more important than what other people (like family and friends) think, and in staying in your comfort zone, we can talk. Until then, there is no point in discussing anything."

I really enjoyed your post. I have found that just being inactive is one thing but then to study and find out for yourself that the religion you were born and raised in and believed in all your adult life is a lie, is something totally different. At this point I do not discuss religion with any of my family because, like you say, they do not really want to know why I left TSCC. It just causes unnecessary friction. I have come to the point that I have to respect that they believe and can only hope they respect my unbelief. Again, I enjoyed your post!

Thanks!

I'm kind of at the same place with my DW. We just let each other be. I would love to actually have some meaningful discussions with her, but for now, it is essentially a truce. Not that that is a bad thing, because I know it definitely could be worse. It just seems like we're stalled.

I have been able to talk to my DW about my disbelief and she is disturbed by the information that I tell her about what I have found wrong with TSCC doctrines and I feel guilty for doing this to her. So I have backed off and let it be. She has always seemed to be on the fence with the church but still wants to believe...

I just never was interested in learning about Mormonism. I was BIC , baptized at 8...did all the priesthood steps up to and including elder, but was never forced or encouraged to read the B of M or Bible...so I didn't. So I know only what doctrine I'd heard preached in church. I knew from as far back as I could remember, that I did NOT, under any circumstances, want to go on a mission...or date or marry a Mormon girl. 2 semesters at Ricks College in the mid 60's reinforced all three of those beliefs even more, so walking away was very easy.

Ron Burr

Here's the thing about "shelves". They require support - nails, screws, walls, studs, etc. The shelves that TBM's use require support too - friends, family, church, structure, callings, you name it. It all seems like very strong support too. They are anchored firmly to their foundations or so it seems. The problem is they "appear" to be strong. When stressed just slightly the whole thing falls to the ground. That's why the LDS leadership wants you to avoid having to put anything on your shelf altogether.

The problem with many TBMs.. they have an agenda to bring your back to the fold. It doesn't matter what your concerns are. I think it may be better to simply talk to them in terms of feelings. They are way too emotionally invested in Mormonism to see it objectively. Any reason given to them will simply sound like "excuses" from their point of view.

Most people assume that Humans are rational. This is not true. Humans are more emotional than rational. It is Human nature to use rationalization to support whatever emotion one is having. I am not saying that there aren't objective facts. Leaving Mormonism has several components to it. I believe that most people leave Mormonism for more than just intellectual reasons... there are usually other components that cause dissatisfaction with the religion also. It would be hard to convince someone who is very happy being Mormon.. that it is false.

I would say that I was happy being Mormon, except for the fact that there were huge chunks of doctrine that didn't make sense and I didn't like numerous cultural aspects. So I'm not sure if that fits with your idea of people who are happy being Mormon or not.

of dissatisfaction before a believer is ready to question their beliefs.

Before I left, several things happened that defied a faith-promoting explanation. And on top of that, I felt a huge spiritual void, and had for a very long time. I think believing created more questions than answers. And a lot of those questions started with "WHY?"

Ultimately, the question was WHY God wasn't answering prayers.


But back to the original post. I have generally found it very disappointing to share why I left with a believer. It's like they don't even hear the real reasons, and they are just waiting for something that sounds close to the reasons why they THINK people leave, or trying to pick the category of apostate to put you into. Luckily, I haven't had a lot of people try to argue my reasons with me.

When it comes down to it, I think it's intensely personal and none of anyone's business. My relationship with the Mormon God (or lack of it) just that. I don't need someone's approval to think for myself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2013 02:39AM by imaworkinonit.

Yes, from that perspective, I absolutely was unhappy with the church and God as well. I had not received an answer to my heartfelt pleadings in years. Then I read my dh's patriarchal blessing for the first time and was horrified to realize it was all the same (same patriarch gave us our blessings a few years apart) as mine. This patriarch, I found out, attempted to seduce my little sister years ago. So I guess there was some emotional dissatisfaction going on!

Not to mention the lack of spiritual nourishment that came from spending 3 hours at church and 2 hours at Mutual with the kids I worked with. Empty. Empty. Empty.

You woke up and smelled the curelom piss. Good for you.

Gracewarrior is right, humans are mostly emotional. Mormonism is an intensely emotional approach to existence, so TBMs have a hard time getting beyond that.

My new wife is a deep internalizer. Mormonism would have destroyed her. If I had gotten her 25 years ago when I wanted her, when I was a TBM, she would have been miserable.

Great post.
One of my favorite questions for TBMs is, "If the church isn't true, would you want to know?" Have them really think about that and give a sincere answer before having any further discussions.

(Pretty sure I first read that on this board a while back)