My son has a good friend he's made at his school, a fellow kindergartner. Last night my son was saying that this friend of his was telling all the other classmates that my son "doesn't go to church."

I asked my son if all the other kids went to church, and he said that they did.

I then explained to my son that I went to that same church my entire youth, and how I dreaded Sunday's and how we get to go do things as a family/hiking on Sunday's, and how much more AWESOME that is than sitting still on a pew listening to boring lessons.

He said that this little friend just said he was telling everyone cause he was "concerned." What kindergartner uses that word in the right context? Sounds as if someone is getting fed this by their mother.

Do I have a right to be annoyed as hell at this? I am so terrified of my son turning 8 and wanting to be baptized, because it's the thing to do in this state. None of these children know what they're doing-- and besides primary and the fun activities-- they LOATHE church.

Also, I hope that my son and I aren't becoming a "project."

Is this kid's family in the ward you're assigned to? If so, I'd probably be the type of parent who stops by her house for a nice little chat.

Talk to the teacher. Tell her that you want your family's religious choices to be treated with respect and that this other little boy should be corrected on his behavior. Your son has a right to be accepted by others on his own merits and not on how he spends his time outside of school.

Yes, very true and the teacher can play a part in handling this.

When I was in fifth grade, I declared to a friend that I did not believe in god. I had not been raised in any church and had only been to Protestant churches with girlfriends a couple of times. And was not impressed. (The mormonism came in later.)

This friend got really mad at me and slapped me. That was, of course, the end of our friendship. We weren't even in the same class, however. I don't know if kids still get recess, but our conversations regarding the nature of the universe all took place at recess on the playground. We didn't even ride the same bus home either.

So I think talking to the teacher is sometimes not good advice. Where does this kid most often see the other one who is outing him for being an atheist? Where is this happening? On the school bus? Playground? In the classroom? Maybe a guidance counselor is a better person to rat out the rat to.

Religious bullying is something teachers (should) take seriously. Talk to the teacher and be very clear that you will not allow your son to be bullied. The teacher will then probably talk to the kid's parents who will say,

"Well I just don't know where he gets it from! I mean I knew that they didn't go to church because they like to drink and don't want to pay tithing and are horrible sinners, but I'm so surprised that my son would know something like that!"

I appreciate parents who let me know about these kinds of problems.

I would have a talk with the child and if necessary the whole class. If that didn't work, I'd call the parents who told their child to be so "concerned" about another kid's religious upbringing.

I've said this before, "Kiddies, this is school, not church. The people who pay for me to teach you made a law that we don't give church advice and lessons here because our job is to learn to get along with everyone and learn our letters and numbers and school lessons. So, don't talk to other kids about going to your church. What they do about church is their business and their moms and dads are in charge of what they do. Just like your parents are in charge of you and wouldn't like other people telling you not to go to your church."

I've never had with problems with Mormons, but have dealt with JWs, and holy rollers who can sometimes be as overly pushy as Mormons tend to be.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2013 05:33PM by Cheryl.

Now that's making society a little better . . . a lot better. :)

Is there a way we can clone you?

All *teachers* should learn from you.

I also lived in a neighborhood where I was the only non-attending boy. My suggestion would be to tell your son to tell his friends that he attends a different church on Sundays. I think that's the easiest way to get him off their radar. If they prompt him to elaborate he can say it's great fun and at his church he gets to hike and and do all sorts of other great things. If they prompt even further he can simply say he's perfectly happy with his current church and he doesn't want a new one, but that they're free to come join him if they want. As he gets older he'll better understand that he's free to define church/spirituality as he see fit, but this is a start.

I guarantee you he'll always have this issue as long as you're in a Mormon community - he'll have to learn to deflect the questions and develop relationships on his terms. I ended up with Mormon friends, went on scouting trips and played ward basketball, but I never, ever went to church. They bugged me every chance they got, but I never gave in and it became more of a running joke than anything.

Little kids need adult back up when they meet intense peer pressure so early in their schooling.

Yes. This.

I lived in the Moridor as a youth. We (back then!) respected other kids who did the catechism instead of primary ... As well as those other kids who said 'not Mormon, please move on!'. (never met a self proclaimed atheist in the Moridor in the 70's-80's - so sad.

I get that things might be a bit more dicey these days- but **please** tell me there's still a bit of relief from "kid on kid fellowship" these days??!!!

Telling a kid to lie creates cog-dis. If you teach a kid to lie, he'll lie to you.

How about going to another church even just once, so the kid has a real experience to relate?

Thanks for all this! I am a bit bitter about the Church, mostly because it is so apparant and signs of it are always all around me. It's hard to tell if I'm blowing things out of proportion sometimes, or if things are geniunely messed up.

I plan on talking with the teacher. The mother of this child I have met and has come over for a play date with her son and my son one time. I sat and talked with her for a few hours about motherhood and life, and felt like I was very accommadating and gracious. Maybe not so much though-- if she felt compelled to talk to her son about his friend not being a member of their church.

Her 5 year old while at my home, talked about how real men go on missions. It sure brought me back, it certainly starts young, doesn't it? I just hope that my son can keep out, even though all his friends are very much in. It is very nice to hear a teachers perspective, Cheryl. I will do all that I can to make sure this doesn't continue.

Don't be too quick to think your feelings are extreme. I think you're very reasoned and accommodating and I'm sure you'll be tactful in how you handle this. Good luck.

Thanks, sfbayutes! I have dealt with some that just won't give up here in Utah-- it seems if you don't go to any church, they just can't wrap their heads around that. They seem to think my soul has this giant gaping hole in it if I am not wasting my Sunday's in some church building. Yours may be the best solution.

I think the challenge is finding the right balance between your direct involvement with other involved adults vs developing your boy's ability to fend for himself. I totally agree with Cheryl that there are situations where your intervention is critical. But it's a fine line...

And, ya, there is a surfeit of people in Utah who think one way and aren't afraid to apply it to you. But, again, your son will need to learn to push it aside and develop his own sense of self. If he can do it in that environment then odds are he'll be pretty damn confident in who he really is.

Have you ever considering moving to a place where there are no Mormons? What is keeping you in your current location?

Agreed.

All such great advice! Thanks, all. I am totally going to make sure and have an awesome 8th birthday for him, rather than have him get baptized like all the other kids around. No school today and Halloween yesterday so haven't done anything about it just yet, but have plans! I am here in Utah because I have a good job here that I love, and my fiance is getting his Electrician's Journeyman ship and has to finish his first 4 years here. Stuck, for now. I love the outdoors-- Utah is the best for that. Too bad the Mormon's stole this place from the Native American's. I think it would be a much better place if it hadn't been that way. Another Colorado, of sorts!

Oh you are a project alright. And I would go right to the mom and set her straight about how his comments upset your son and he needs to keep his comment about church out of the school setting. I would be ticked. And also he can not be baptized without your permission at age 8.

Find a church that matches your viewpoints and take your son there. He won't know the difference between LDS, Inc. and the UUs. He might really like it.

This scares me a little bit, since I also live in utah and have a 5 yr old son in school. But, thankfully, I think I live in an area of Utah that isnt quite as mormon-y as other areas like the provo bubble and all those surrounding areas.

I know for a fact that some of the kids in his class dont go to church, so I know he's not the only one.

Still, that is quite shocking that its starting so early with your son. I agree with another poster that you should talk to his mom... the wording sounds like it came straight from a parent.

You've gotten some great advice about handling this 5-year old gossip. What an unattractive quality in a child so young, but many Mormons dress up gossip and call it concern. They even have their organized weekly gossip-fest known as PEC meeting.

If I read between the lines correctly, you were raised Mormon. If you were, you know how early Primary programs/teachers start pushing baptism. If I were you, I'd start talking up something special you have planned for when your boy turns eight. Plan something as spectacular as you can afford that involves the things he loves most and keep him involved in the plan. When these pint-sized Mormon goose-steppers start talking about their special, special 8th birthday event, your son will have a special 8th birthday event of his own, and maybe that will help deflect interest in baptism.

It's bad enough that they hound the adults, but confronting little kids is so cult-y.

It's a good idea for nonmo parents with this problem to plan a wonderful eight year birthday for their kiddies who live among high density Mormons.

My 5 grade daughter has a similar problem. One of her TBM classmates tries to bully her by telling the rest of the class that she doesn't believe in god. But it backfires. The rest of the students know that she's pretty cool anyway. So the TBM is the one who they look down on.

You are NOT imagining things or overreacting. I live in a heavily mormon area of Gilbert AZ. When my kids started school (DD/Kindergarten, DS/4th gr.) after we moved here, son settled in immediately. He has some funny stories about the mormon/Catholic juxtaposition and how it was handled. Daughter - not so much.

I noticed my 6-year-old looking a little lumpy and thick one September afternoon after school. She was pretty dodgy about answering me when I asked her what was wrong with her clothes. I finally cornered her and discovered she was wearing the little tank top to her pajamas under her shirt. (AZ - September - 104 degrees).

Me: "What are you doing? Why didn't you take your pajamas off this morning?" DD: "I didn't have time". Now, I knew this was a lie because she had time to clean her room, make her bed, and practice the piano that morning before school. After further questioning, she admitted to me that two "big 2nd graders" were calling her "nasty" because she didn't wear underwear!?!???! (Pre-garment training, I assume?) She refused to tell me who. I asked the teacher to let me know if anyone was giving her a hard time, and explained the situation. DD is very much a "handle it herself" kind of kid (even then), and if she ever had another problem then, I never heard about it.

As far as the the 8-year-old "problem", I can attest that something else special is just the ticket. For DD, it was her First Communion. She invited all of her little mormon friends, and much to my jaw-dropping amazement, they all came - with their parents! (Oh, the questions afterward!!) DD was confident enough at this point that she was able to deflect all of the "you get a white dress - just like us!!" to "No, YOU get a white dress because you COPIED us."

I would say invent a family right-of-passage. Camping with Dad, just the two of them. Volunteering at a soup kitchen, and make a big deal that it is because he is big enough? Something that you can start to talk up NOW that he can anticipate.

I won't lie to you and tell you that DD didn't have run-ins with the conversion machine that is the mormon church. She is the reason I am here. (Another time, another thread) The real problems started in Jr. High. She is okay now - but it was a battle. You are already on these boards and making a plan, so you are far ahead of the naive little me that had to react instead of prevent. You have a lot of people here, me included, that will do our best to guide you through.

Don't assume it is the parents. My kids are indocrinated every Sunday at church about missionary work and sharing the gospel. It is hard to redirect them at home the way I want. I hear my older son saying stupid stuff like that to his friends or in public. I always try to teach him about other religions and not being nosy. It is hard to do with a 6 yr old.

Keep up the good work.

Just like your parents are in charge of you and wouldn't like other people telling you not to go to your church."
You could quote that to the parent of the child.

Meet with the child’s parent privately where the children do not know you two are talking. If your child finds out tell them you had a grownup to grown up talk.

Then ask the parent how they would feel if someone told their child any of the following?

Or your favorite “inconvenient truths” about the TSCC.
I’m sure any TBM parent would hate for their child to be coming home with questions they, as parents, are struggling with themselves.


Would you like your child being told that his church believes God lives on a star called Kolob?

there are seven versions of the first vision?

Joseph tried to sell the BOM in Canada first?

The first BOM has a lot of grammatical errors that had to be corrected before the second printing. “They went that-a-way” “They was a preachin” “they was there”…….

Mormon Prophet said man would NEVER walk on the moon?

Black people could not have the priesthood and were told they could never have the priesthood in this life time?

Indians are turning white?

garments, plain cloth, can stop bullets?

people have secret handshakes in the temple?

Jesus threw out the money changers in the temple, but the Mormon temples have money machines in theirs?

Mormons are so dishonest they have to have padlocks on their temple lockers.
The list goes on……