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Posted by: AnonAbdulJabbar ( )
Date: October 23, 2013 12:34PM

What is the earliest date that documents the claim that joseph made regarding the Moroni visit and the gold plates? I believe it was 1829, but I vaguely recall Joseph mentioning the gold plates to someone as early as 1827?????? Either way, there is no evidence that he spoke to anyone about Moroni or the plates in 1823 (when he claimed Moroni first appeared to him).

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Posted by: Chump ( )
Date: October 23, 2013 12:52PM

I believe it was 1827...I have a book that has all contemporary mentions of the coming forth of the book of mormon. I'll have to check.

You're right about 1823...and there were no mentions of the earlier 1820 first vision.

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Posted by: dalebroadhurst ( )
Date: October 23, 2013 01:30PM

AnonAbdulJabbar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is the earliest date that documents the claim
> that joseph made regarding the Moroni visit and
> the gold plates? I believe it was 1829, but I
> vaguely recall Joseph mentioning the gold plates
> to someone as early as 1827?????? Either way,
> there is no evidence that he spoke to anyone about
> Moroni or the plates in 1823 (when he claimed
> Moroni first appeared to him).


Jonathan A. Hadley, a Palmyra newspaper editor, wrote
this recollection, in 1842:

>Rochester, New York, July 14, 1842.
>...I went to Palmyra, the residence of the Smiths and
>of the early dupes of Jo, in the Spring of 1827, a
>year or two after the pretended finding of the plates
>from which the book of Mormon was translated. The story
>of the manner in which it is said the plates were found,
>I have often had from Martin Harris...
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/NE/miscne02.htm#072842a
reprinted here:
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/NY/wayn1840.htm#091442

This recollection appears to verify that Smith was
"pretending" to have found golden plates, near Palmyra,
as early as 1827, and that Martin Harris was one of the
first local residents that began to spread the story.

Hadley's own publishing of the Mormon story, however, did
not appear until two years later:

>In the fall of 1827, a person by the name of
>Joseph Smith, of Manchester, Ontario county, reported
>that he had been visited in a dream by the spirit of
>the Almighty, and informed that in a certain hill in
>that town, was deposited this Golden Bible...
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/NY/wayn1830.htm#081129
reprinted here, in the newspaper Sidney Rigdon usually read:
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/NE/miscne00.htm#100229

See also some of the earliest preserved correspondence
to/from Smith family members, for possible verification.

UD

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Posted by: Bradley ( )
Date: October 23, 2013 02:02PM

Palmyra’s Wayne Sentinel reprinted a piece from the Windsor (Vermont) Journal, noting how “prevalent” seeking Kidd’s treasure was among New Englanders and Palmyra citizens in 1825:

"We are sorry to observe, even in this enlightened age, so prevalent a disposition to credit the accounts of the marvelous. Even the frightful stories of money being hid under the surface of the earth, and enchanted by the Devil or Robert Kidd (Captain Kidd), are received by many of our respectable fellow citizens as truths."

see http://mormonthink.com/grant11.htm

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Posted by: Chump ( )
Date: October 23, 2013 02:04PM

I just checked the book I have and it looks like the first published mention of the coming book was in 1829. There were critical mentions of the gold bible in the local newspaper by 1829 that mention that Joe is the guy that claimed to see an angel...no mention of a vision of God or Christ.

I couldn't find the story of Joe's treasure-hunting buddies trying to find the hidden plates. That would have had to happen earlier on for the story to be credible.

I don't have a copy of Lucy's book, but it might have a mention of hearing the story earlier than 1829. Of course, if I'm remembering correctly, her book was dictated to Orson Hyde years later, so it might not be reliable.

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Posted by: squeebee ( )
Date: October 23, 2013 02:08PM

Yes, and it's biased, you'd need contemporary mentions to have any credibility.

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