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Posted by: Indecisive ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 05:38PM

I recognize that this topic could generate some very outspoken arguments from both sides. I think there is some merit to both sides, so be respectful and know that I'm doing the same. I need the good honest advice.

I am a college-aged single male who recently left the church. It is very, very possible that I could lose my virginity this upcoming weekend. As in... Set and ready to happen.

Do I go for it?
- I am sure it's a real pleasure...
- It seems like pretty normal college-age behaviour.
- I'm not sure whether I'm nervous about it because "it's wrong" or because it's different.
- I will admit that it's merely for "deconditioning" and experience sake -- no emotional attachment, just curiosity.

Do I back out?
- I am in no position to deal with a pregnancy or diseases... I think i am safe on the latter, but don't.
- You can only lose your virginity once.
- If this is just an awkward first experience out of many, it may not be a big deal. If this is a "one and done" experience that doesn't happen again until I approach marriage with somebody else... that seems crippling, especially if they are a virgin.

Basically, I am trying to determine

(1) what is right (as somebody who is no longer religious)
(2) what is normal (without accidentally over-correcting just because I have new freedom)
(3) what is right for me (most important question, but I need feedback

I obviously don't want to divulge too much info, but I would appreciate some observations and feedback from others who are outside "this bubble" and have a better grasp of the real world outside Mormonism. Once again, I give respect to people voicing either opinion.

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Posted by: zarahemlatowndrunk ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 05:42PM

If you're not religious at all and won't feel guilty, then have a good time and make it worth remembering. Just be careful and responsible, and make sure she's having as much fun as you are.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2013 05:43PM by zarahemlatowndrunk.

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Posted by: Lurker From Beyond ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 05:44PM

Relax, wear a condom, tell your partner "thank you, that was wonderful", and have fun

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Posted by: rexburgtoaz ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 05:47PM

Always, always use protection. And don't get drunk first. You'll want to remember your first time.

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Posted by: jacob ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 06:07PM

But, and hear me out here...




get drunk afterwards and then do it again.

Treat the experience the same way you would treat Six Flags, tons of fun for 60 dollars. :) (that's a joke by the way)

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Posted by: Richard the Bad ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 05:50PM

I agree with the others above (especially the condom advice) based on the answer to one question. You say this is just for the experience with "no emotional attachment, just curiosity".

Does the person you are going to be with feel the same way? If so, enjoy your self. If not, and they think there is more to it, then it would be an incredibly sh!tty thing to do to them.

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Posted by: Albinolamanite ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 05:55PM

Back in my day we didn't have all these high tech birth control methods like pullin' out.

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Posted by: BillShat ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 08:06PM


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Posted by: tevainotloggedin ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 05:56PM

Here's what adults do:

They TALK to each other about potential problems as they become aware of them.

Which means:

TALK to your [potential] partner and make sure that you both feel the same about this (i.e., that this is--for you, at least--about sexual experience...that you have been raised in a fundamentally anti-sex culture, and it is time for you to experience real life adult sex, but you are not looking for, or wanting, an emotional relationship...your feelings about (and requirements about) condoms. Since you are a virgin as you go into this, presumably you are not carrying STD's. Nevertheless, TALK about STD's. Ask about your [potential] partners previous relationships; ask if they have had a recent STD screening. You may or may not be told the truth (or the WHOLE truth), so be aware of this and make your decisions as best you can on the available information that you are able to discern).

If you are college age, this means that it is high time for you to become a full adult, and for most adults, this includes sexuality.

If you put it off very much longer, the "losing your virginity" part is likely to grow within your consciousness, becoming larger and larger, and taking on emotional dimensions that are outsized when compared to a real physical experience.

You are likely to find that real sex is both "more" (in a good way) AND "less" (in an earthshaking way) than you are expecting. It is a part of life and it is an IMPORTANT part of life, but it's also designed to feel and be experienced as "normal"--because it IS "normal." The descriptions you have read, or what you have observed on the film or TV screen, are dramatic reflections of the (sometimes mundane) "real thing."

I hope you find the exactly right "first partner" for you, and that you both agree on all of the important things that you need to agree on, and that you find that sex is one of the deeply finer and more satisfying parts of life...just like everyone else who is grateful that they have what is, for them, "the best" sex life for all of the rest of your life.

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Posted by: jong1064 ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 06:53PM

I think you covered things very well here, tevainotloggedin. I agree that talking first is the most important thing here, next to wearing a condom. When religious people talk about sex being a "sin" it is usually just about control. When I talk to my daughters about sex (after the physical pregnancy STD talk), I teach them about the feelings that will come up, the emotions a woman feels after sex and how to deal with this. I think it's important for men to understand how women feel about sex and to consider that many times a woman might say she's okay with it being just sex, but that is not usually the case. What I'm trying to say is, be aware of her emotions and treat her well.

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Posted by: The Oncoming Storm - bc ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 06:00PM

I don't see any of your cons as really strong "no's" more than just being scared and nervous about it.

1. Use proper protection and your risk is minimal. Hopefully you are doubling up on birth control and not only relying on condoms - e.g. she is also using a 2nd form of birth control.

2. So what?

3. Yeah - this one could be an issue, but you haven't provided enough information to answer this.

I am really concerned by your statement: "If this is just an awkward first experience out of many, it may not be a big deal. If this is a "one and done" experience that doesn't happen again until I approach marriage with somebody else... that seems crippling, especially if they are a virgin."

To only have sex once and then get married to someone else - this would be a HUGE mistake and a horrible approach. I made the mistake of having sex the first time on my wedding night - it was a great experience actually. However, it really sucked to find out on the 3rd day our of honeymoon that we weren't sexually compatible and hand wildly mismatched libidos. As time went on we found what we wanted in bed was completely different and was heartbreaking for both of us ultimately ending in divorce.

So do yourself the favor of going out there and getting some experience. Learn what you like and don't like. Gain some skills and know enough about yourself sexually to know you are sexually compatible with the person you ultimately marry.

With that said there are some HUGE things to be careful of. The feelings and emotions you will be dabbling with are strong and huge. What impact will this have on the other person? How will it impact your relationship? How will it impact you? Some of those you can't know until you try but it can go amazingly right or horribly wrong and that is where you need to proceed with caution.

If there is really no emotional attachment this could or could not be a good thing. I don't know what I think about that. That could be a great approach because it removes most of the potential problems (as long as it really is a good thing for the girl.) On the other hand sex is really best with someone you care about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2013 06:03PM by The Oncoming Storm - bc.

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Posted by: anon1234 ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 06:16PM

I say- just do it! Of course, with protection and making sure the other party is also not emotionally attached.

My experience was similar to yours. I left the church at 18. I waited until 20 to have sex and I do not regret it. It was someone I liked but was not at all emotionally attached to- him as well (I am a girl). I was a bit nervous, but I knew I wanted to find out what the big deal was and move on. Honestly, for me and as a girl, it was really weird and awkward and kind of hurt. I feel asleep thinking- really? This is what everything makes such a big deal about. And then the more experience I got, the better it got and the more I enjoyed it. My husband was not my first and I was not his first and we certainly had sex before we married. I agree that finding out about each other sexually is a really important part of compatibility.

At the end of the day, sex is not that big of a deal. But the longer you wait- the more anxious you will be about it. Your future wife should thank you for getting the experience necessary to fully satisfy her. It's important. You can have fun- it's easy to be careful- with pregnancy, diseases and emotions. You can't learn to drive a car really well without practice, in addition to the training and license. Just do it!! Be careful and have fun.

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Posted by: icanseethelight ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 06:23PM

I will give you the same advice I have given all five of my children.

Have lots of sex with lots of people, find out what you like and don't like, always be safe, communicative, and honest, and most importantly have fun!

Virginity is a big issue over a little tissue, nothing else.

Good luck!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2013 06:23PM by icanseethelight.

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Posted by: visiting ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 06:24PM

I was a virgin until I got married. While I don't wish I would have had sex with anyone other than my husband, I do wish I would have had sex way before the wedding.

This is what I tell my teenage kids:

Your first time should be special and should be with someone you care about, not someone you just met. You should always use protection. Pregnancy can happen even if you use birth control, so choose your partners wisely. Don't stay in a bad relationship just because you feel obligated after having sex with the person. And remember, You can't catch an STD by masturbating.

Follow your heart and everything will be fine.

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Posted by: frankie ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 06:32PM

I guess go for it, but make sure you have the money to raise a kid just in case the birth control fails. I not trying to be mean, but I'm a realist. Communicate with the woman and see what birth control she uses. A condom is great back protection.

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Posted by: mew ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 06:34PM

Visiting, I agree with you. I am pretty sure you said what was in my head.

Use protection, do it with someone you CARE about.

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Posted by: zarahemlatowndrunk ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 06:43PM

I'm obviously no expert on this. My credentials are that I waited until marriage and have only ever had sex with my spouse. So I agree that it's better to do it with someone you care about, but if it's for experience rather than sharing an emotional bond, wouldn't it complicate things a bit to have sex with someone you care about, but don't want a long-term relationship with?

My unqualified advice is to make sure you're on the same wavelength with your partner. This is where sex gets messy. There can be a lot of emotion involved. But clear communication of what the expectations are can't hurt, that's for sure.

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Posted by: Gay Philosopher ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 06:51PM

Hi,

(1) What is right? and (3) What is right for me? are the same questioon, expressed from the standpoint of society versus you, as the individual.

(2) is easily answerable. Many, many students lose their virginity at your age in life, so I'd say that that's pretty normal.

As for what's right, since it's part of your private life, but it affects one other person, you get to decide what's right in conjunction with the girl. There's nothing wrong with engaging in sex, so long as: (a) you don't allow harm to befall the girl; (b) you don't allow harm to befall you; and (c) hopefully one or both of you will benefit in some way.

In practical terms, this means that there are psychological (emotional, particularly for the girl, because girls tend to want relationships rather than just sex) and physical (disease) risks. How would you feel if she insisted that she was a virgin, but wasn't, and infected you with the herpes virus (as happened to a close friend of mine)? That virus never goes away, although you can take expensive pills for the rest of your life to try to reduce the frequency and intensity of outbreaks.

Then, there are the more serious--if not lethal--viruses: HIV, and the hepatitis viruses, which are 100x more easily spread than HIV. And don't forget about human papilloma virus (HPV). It's easily transmmitted through skin-on-skin contact. In males, some strains of it cause genital warts. In females, over the course of decades, some of the strains can cause cervical cancer. (There's now a vaccine, but it's doubtful that she was vaccinated, and in general, vaccines are far, far from conferrring 100% immunity. The flu virus is only 33% effective, after all.)

Let's pretend that at some point in the future, you met the love of your life. Would you want to risk contracting HPV and inadvertently spreading it to her? It's all a matter of risk.

Condoms don't necessarily prevent STD's. My friend always used a condom, and yet he has herpes. The only truly safe behavior is solo masturbation. The girl could masturbate you, and that would be safe, but penetrative (oral, vaginal, and especially anal) sex will always carry risks. How much risk is acceptable? My friend was 18 at the time that he repeatedly had sex with a girl that swore up and down that she didn't have any STD's, until my friend was infected with herpes. Have you heard the expression, "trust but verify?" Verify. Your health depends on it. You have a long life ahead. You wouldn't want to do something that you'd spend the rest of your life regretting.

I know that you want to have sex, and there's nothing wrong with doing so, so long as both of you go into it with an accurate understanding of expectations and risks, and you do so honestly. To what degree can you truly trust this girl?

In the end, it's up to you. Only you know how lustful you are, and to what extent not having sex with girls would reduce the quality of your life. Some guys are far more lustful than others, and they're tortured by the prospect of not having an active sex life. You have to weigh the tradeoffs, keep clearly in mind that there could be permanent, undesirable consequences to your actions, and then choose wisely.

I had another young friend who had sex with a girl he didn't plan to marry, and this led to an unwanted pregnancy that would have turned scandalous had anyone found out. They wound up aborting the fetus, which caused all sorts of trauma for both of them. Don't go there.

Personally, if you're oriented toward marrying a woman and having a family and being a devoted father and husband, I think that you shouldn't have sex now. Ultimately, though, the choice is yours. Life entails risk and tradeoffs.

Inform yourself and choose wisely. Just remember that it's not your decision alone. Also remember that viruses don't usually give anyone a second chance.

Best,

Steve

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 06:58PM

My honest opinion is that *someone* should know what they're doing. Putting two virgins together is a mistake. Sex would be much more enjoyable for you with an experienced partner.

Other than that, wear a condom and have fun! Sex is much better with someone you love, but you will find that out in time.

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Posted by: BG ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 07:22PM

Best to happen in a mature relationship.

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Posted by: decieved for years ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 07:36PM

Have fun, it's meant to be fun. Not guilt ridden like the 'ol farts in the top "15" want you to think. Those 'ol gezzers haven't had a woodie since the early '50s anyways.
Enjoy and forget the guilt. And be "safe" above all.
Feels great,take your time, and be happy......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2013 07:38PM by decievedforyears.

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Posted by: tevainotloggedin ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 08:03PM

Practical advice:

Buy enough condoms so that you have some to practice with.

PRACTICE putting them on, and keep practicing until you can do it (in your own evaluation) smoothly and fairly swiftly. You're not going to be in a speed contest, but when it get to time to do the real things, you should be able to put on a condom without fumbling too much.

Second: Buy some lube and--after you get the condom on--practice lubing up. I know you are a male, but regardless of the gender of your partner, you DO need lube (at least most of the time). Make certain that the lube you buy is water-based (because oil-based lubes break down most condoms, making them useless as protectors against disease), and my personal recommendation is that it is clear and Unflavored. Flavors (strawberry...watermelon...whatever) might be something for you to check out once you are at least somewhat experienced, but if you begin with clear, unflavored lube you can't go wrong.

In order to practice putting on condoms and lubing up, you should be in a state of physiological readiness. :-) If any negative "programming" from the past starts to intrude on your thinking, imagine you are in a doctor's office and they REQUIRE a semen sample. In ACTUAL doctor's offices, they have appropriate magazines ready to hand to male patients to help with obtaining any required semen samples. You may or may not need "appropriate magazines," but if you do, it is always a good thing to Be Prepared.

Prep can be fun.

Take full advantage of this opportunity to learn a bit more about yourself and your own responsiveness. As you will find out, it is all good.

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Posted by: Indecisive ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 08:05PM

Some very good input so far. Allow me to respond to specific comments. I want to keep exploring and developing my ideas on the topic, so keep it coming!

My main issue is trying to recognize what attitudes and assumptions I have that are reasonable and personal - versus those that are a result of my Mormon cultural upbringing.

I am definitely planning to wear a condom if this happens. I will ask her about birth control and anything that could be passed on... She knows this is absolutely for my experience - it's not somebody I "care" about but I would definitely be respectful and careful.

tevainotloggedin:

"...TALK to your [potential] partner and make sure that you both feel the same about this ... and it is time for you to experience real life adult sex, but you are not looking for, or wanting, an emotional relationship... Nevertheless, TALK about STD's. Ask about your [potential] partners previous relationships; ask if they have had a recent STD screening."

I shortened your quote, but I will take this advice. Thank you.

"If you put it off very much longer, the "losing your virginity" part is likely to grow within your consciousness, becoming larger and larger, and taking on emotional dimensions that are outsized when compared to a real physical experience."

This is awkwardly true. I am embarrassed to admit this, but I haven't had my "first kiss" either (... which would likely change...) and I have noticed that it really is spiraling out of control on an emotional level. Hence why I want to move forward with these "first times" with the hope that my roadblocks are broken down.

I'm curious how that piece of information may change people's views. I haven't kissed a girl due to confidence issues and fear of rejection - eventually I need to resolve those root issues. I feel like some experience could be a confidence booster but recognize the flawed thinking in that as well.

Responding to The Oncoming Storm: "To only have sex once and then get married to someone else - this would be a HUGE mistake and a horrible approach."

I am not in any relationship whatsoever. But if I'm only going to have sex once for personal recreation and pleasure - then end up abstaining and waiting until I find a serious relationship - then I would be just as comfortable having "waited" instead of pursuing my own fun. This is mostly a concern if I end up dating a virgin and "we decide to wait."

Responding to anon1234: "But the longer you wait- the more anxious you will be about it. Your future wife should thank you for getting the experience necessary to fully satisfy her."

I know the first half of this is true. (Because it's true with the idea of even a kiss). The second half could vary. I could be wrong, but I seem more likely to scare off a virgin "with my experience" than to scare off a non-virgin with my "lack of experience." Could be wrong.

Responding to Gay Philosopher: "How would you feel if she insisted that she was a virgin, but wasn't, and infected you with the herpes virus (as happened to a close friend of mine)? "

I know she isn't a virgin. I don't know her background but I would be very legitimately concerned with any infection or virus. I am trying to determine how probable this actually is.

"If you're oriented toward marrying a woman and having a family and being a devoted father and husband, I think that you shouldn't have sex now. Ultimately, though, the choice is yours. Life entails risk and tradeoffs."

Well that is definitely the orientation or priority that I have grown up with. I do plan to get married and have a family... Interesting food for thought and actually one of the most compelling statements I've read.

Responding to summer (and BG): "My honest opinion is that *someone* should know what they're doing."

She does. Which is both a good thing but obviously brings the risks of infection that come from experience.

And in general, I recognize that sex with somebody I know well, care about, or have a mature relationship with would almost certainly be more satisfying in the long run. Does that mean that I should reject the experience now because I know it will one day be even better? I'm not sure.

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Posted by: Indecisive ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 08:15PM

Another issue that could be either critical or absolute irrelevant:

I went on a great FIRST date with a totally different girl a few days ago. She is recently inactive but firmly post-Mo. I find her attractive and would consider there to be an emotional interest on my part. It is my assumption that she is a virgin.

I realize she is the only one that could answer this question, but would this change in my virginity really hurt my chances there? It's only been one date with her and I definitely don't think I could appropriately bring it up.

The difficult part is that my "day of reckoning" is Friday or Saturday. I don't know if I'll have a chance to get a read on this beautiful post-Mo girl before that or not.

I would be happy to abstain until marriage or move slowly on future dates with this post-Mo girl. But if it doesn't looking like a romantic relationship is in the cards at all - and I only have one date to go from - then I'm likely to roll the dice and go for it with the "hook up".

Heaven forbid these messages are ever recognized by somebody that knows me.

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Posted by: visiting ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 09:03PM

"...would this change in my virginity really hurt my chances there? It's only been one date with her.."

YES, it would hurt your chances with the other girl.

Not because you're not a virgin any longer but because you had a date with her and then slept with someone else. If you have feelings for the Post-Mormon girl, forget about the hook up.

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Posted by: anon4this ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 09:55PM

"...would this change in my virginity really hurt my chances there? It's only been one date with her.."

Yes, I am a female and that would get me jealous. If he liked me than why would he sleep with her?

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Posted by: tevainotloggedin ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 08:24PM

Indecisive Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does that mean that I
> should reject the experience now because I know it
> will one day be even better? I'm not sure.

My fervent opinion:

Do NOT reject opportunities for good experience! You will almost always regret it...and sometimes for all of the rest of your life.

If you have a valid opportunity now, with someone you have reason to trust (on the level of STD's, etc.) and who is someone you have respect for and she has respect for you, then GRAB this opportunity!

If you never went through the middle-school "making out" phase, and you haven't yet had your "first kiss," then you NEED this experience...RIGHT NOW!

Because putting off these initial steps into adult sexuality (touching...kissing...actual sex) is going to make you actually DOING any of this more and more and MORE psychologically and emotionally difficult the longer you wait.

Truly: you need to get through the barriers within you and launch yourself into full adulthood, and one of the most important parts of "full adulthood" is (for most people) sex.

Be very consciously grateful for this opportunity, and then experience it to the [present] limits of your capability.

That capability will (ideally) grow: it will increase and deepen and you will learn to experience and appreciate things you now probably don't even REALLY realize are "there"--despite the fact that you may have heard or read about them.

But your adult, full, sexual maturity can ONLY happen with practice, and you can only get the most important "practice" with a partner...so don't turn away from this gift unless there is some valid reason to turn away from it.

Accept this amazing gift and enjoy it to the fullest extent possible.

And...

Welcome to the [real] world.

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Posted by: anon this time ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 08:13PM

Go, have fun, then return and report ;)

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 08:28PM

I had so many chances to have sex in college, even at BYU. Even though among my girlfriends none were virgin, I did the whole chastity thing. I've always felt so stupid for that. I think that, long in retrospect, it was wrong. It's the time when you need to know about sex, what it is, what you like about it, and whether or not you like having it with the person involved. Before you get married, you should have had some intimate time together so that you know if you can be that close with that person. Most other cultures who have any kind of longevity in their marriages work that way.

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 08:32PM

I would like to address the part of your thinking that is likely an implant from Mormonism.

First of all, you can always look to nature and your own wisdom to guide you. I congratulate you for seeking other viewpoints. You are recognizing that your paradigm is not necessarily healthy.

Early experiences at anything are often clumsy and halting. Would you want your art ability represented by your first untrained scrawls?

Mormonism teaches that ignorance is a virtue and the value of a woman lies in her innocence. Once that's gone, she's a licked cupcake that nobody wants. How would you like to be valued on whether or not you were circumcised?

Making fornication a sin right under murder is what men did to make sure they knew that their wife's child was their legitimate offspring. This only became important when land ownership and inheritances accompanied the agricultural revolution. Property ownership and ownership of women/children replaced the wider "it takes a village" attitude where the parents of children were sometimes just not exactly known. It didn't matter.

If you want to be smart and normal, take chastity off the Mormon pedestal. The goal is not to be extreme on one side or the other. Don't be promiscuous, but also don't be a virgin. Have some sex with feelings for the person. You don't want to ever detach sex from feelings--that would be bad programming for your psyche.

On the other hand, look what happened to straight-arrow Travis Alexander. A very experienced woman comes along and redefines his idea of "heaven." He thought she was unique--she lead him to believe she was extra specially talented sexually and offered him ideas and experiences he had never even heard of. She prayed on his naivete, didn't she? Truth is, most non-Mormon young women know what she knows and are just as good in bed.

Without being a murderous sociopath.

If you make your whole life about chastity, you deprive yourself of important information about your compatibility, as several posters have mentioned.

DO NOT BELIEVE WOMEN ABOUT STDs!!! Always wear a condom--and practice as stated above. Even if the woman tells you she is avirgin, wear a condom. Even if she says she doesn't have an STD, wear a condom. Even if she says she has no uterus, wear a condom. Take complete responsibility for birth control and disease avoidance YOURSELF.

The most common problem in Mormonism is marriage too soon because of the sexual pressure. This is truly a mistake to repent from at leisure, as bc oncoming storm suggests. It is absolutely untrue that any obedient Mormon man and woman can have a good marriage if they both follow the commandments.

That Mormon hokey-pokey is a clear sign that they do not value the individuality of a member's personality. You are just a unit to them and a single male unit is a danger to all.

If a woman is a virgin and is offended that you are not a virgin, dude, this is not someone you want to marry! In fact, it's such an important test, that in itself this is a good reason to make sure you aren't a virgin. DO NOT MARRY SOMEONE WHO VALUES YOU THE MOST FOR SOMETHING YOU HAVEN'T DONE.

You can see this most clearly by switching it. If you were at a party and a gal came up to you and said, in the course of conversation, "I really like it that you are not a felon." or "It really turns me on that you have never been on a mission."

Sexuality is an important part of life. It is not who you are, it is only part of who you are. For heaven's sake, avoid any women who think it's the most important thing, the litmus test.

Best of luck

Anagrammy

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Posted by: lexaprosavedme ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 09:35PM

Don't rush into it. Now that you're out of TSCC, you'll have plenty of opportunities. I would take time to figure out what you want because you'll never be able to take it back.

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Posted by: Gay Philosopher ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 09:51PM

I agree.

On further reflection, it's clear that Indecisive should NOT have sex until he finds a girl that he loves. Only in the context of a loving, monogamous relationship would it make sense for him to do it.

Indecisive, if you have sex this weekend with the girl you mentioned, it will backfire on you. You'd be disappointed that it wasn't very good. By having sex with a girl that you don't love, you'd be devaluing sex, which would be a really bad idea because one day, you will find a woman that you'll wish that you were a virgin for.

If you view sex this weekend as a physical transaction in order to have an adventure, it's a disastrous idea. You can masturbate yourself to an orgasm while watching porn. The highest potential of (straight) sex (affectionate, reciprocal behaviors with a girl that involve touching, caressing, warmth, expressions of adoration, and orgasm) would be thwarted if you reduced it to a mere orgasm out of curiosity.

It has become clear that your plan is a very bad idea. It isn't the right way to gain experience. This girl isn't the right girl.

Unequivocally: do NOT have sex this weekend, or at any other time, with this girl.

NO!

Steve

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Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 09:40PM

For me, I'd want it to be with someone I love and who loves me, or we're fast moving in that direction. I don't think I'd want to do it just for the heck of it.

But being a woman, I may see things differently than a guy would.

The ultimate answer is to do what you feel is right. To me, if you're questioning it, then maybe you should pay attention to that. You may not be as ready as you think you are.

If you were feeling that it's right, then you'd just be excited about it and not questioning yourself. Nervous is one thing. Questioning whether or not it's right for you is another.

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Posted by: wideawake ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 09:44PM

view from a nevermo - I agree with the majority of the posters here - if you feel this is the right time for you, and you and the girl are on the same page (make sure to establish this beforehand!), then be protected and have fun. not to be a spoilsport, but also know that the very first time may not last all that long (my ex was a virgin), but that will change over time...just as an FYI.

It's good that you got out of TSCC at a young age and are able to explore this area, and I fully agree that this is necessary before marriage to ensure compatibility in this way.

I also strongly agree with Anagrammy's statement that you do not get involved with any girl that would reject you or otherwise judge you for not being a virgin. if someone truly loves you, they will love all of you, for you, and anyone who rejects you with such judgements is not worthy of your time.

I'll finish with a Voltaire quote for you:

"It is an infantile superstition of the human spirit that virginity would be thought a virtue and not the barrier that separates ignorance from knowledge."

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Posted by: Gay Philosopher ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 09:53PM

Voltaire didn't have to worry about AIDS.

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Posted by: wideawake ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 10:07PM

what does AIDS have to do with whether virginity is a virtue or not? this has more to do with the idea that man has fabricated that virginity is something of value. it isn't.

AIDS does not change something that is theoretical like this. does it mean we need to be more careful in this day and age? of course. does it mean everyone should keep their virginity for fear of contracting AIDS? of course not. Voltaire also did not have access to Trojan, durex or whatever brand of condom one can choose from.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2013 10:10PM by wideawake.

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Posted by: ragingphoenix ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 10:04PM

Just a side note...

You don't "lose" virginity. You gain experience.

Have fun, relax and try to just enjoy the experience without all of that Mormon conditioning that has been pounded into your brain.

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Posted by: anon4this ( )
Date: October 14, 2013 10:08PM

Kiss! Since you haven't had your first kiss yet start there.

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