Dad - Bipolar
Mom - Depressed
Daughter - Depressed
Son - Depressed/OCD

All on meds.

All active in COJCOLDS. All hold callings, all hold recommends.

My question is: Do you think that the Morg exploits the mental illnesses of its members to encourage guilt, shame, feelings of worthlessness, and dependency?

My gut feeling is that people who have legitimate mental illnesses buy into the mythology of Mormonism because of a more deep-seated need for reinforcement and relief from mental illnesses, oftentimes in lieu of psychiatric medicine.

Am I making any sense here?

I just think that this token nod to the laity by the 12 this past conference is just that - just a token nod.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2013 11:30PM by oceanluvr.

Causes it AND Exploits it

No. Per mormonism mental illness does not exist.
The problem is you or someone in your family is unworthy.
Become worthy and mental illnesses go away.

At least that was doctrine up to the 80s when I walked away.

Yes - TSCC feeds on human weakness. Once it finds a way into your psyche, it digs in like a worm and eats you alive.

TBM father: Narcissist of the first water. User and bully.
TBM mother: helpless agoraphobe; devoid of maternal instinct
Sibling #1: Bipolar to an insufferable degree
Me: Diagnosed with anxiety, depression, agoraphobia
Sibling #2: Diagnosed with anxiety and crippling rumination problem
Sibling #3: Incapacitated and living off the grid
Sibling #4: Unable to work as an employee due to nerves
Sibling #5: Same as above
Sibling #6: Same as above.

Only sibling #1 is working but faints at work and gets hospitalized occasionally. I can only have an intelligent conversation with sibling #2, my brother Jeff. Note that we are the only two who have sought help and been properly diagnosed, though some of the others have taken tranquilizers prescribed by GP doctors. But they remain too goofy and bizarre to communicate with. They believe in spooks and curses. Thank you, Mormonism.

Devoid of maternal instinct describes my mom SO WELL!!! Thanks for the term. I've been struggling to express what her issue is- but that's it.

YES!
Eventually I will write the story of depression, anxiety, mental illness, suicidal thoughts, and on and on that run rampant in my Mormon family. It will take some time. Its a story that's been running for over 80 years.

I think Mormonism coming into my life when it did probably kept me from committing suicide.

After nearly two decades of an abusive marriage and a hideous divorce (in which I lost everything, including my children, to whom I had been essentially a single parent), I was HIDEOUSLY depressed. I don't believe there has yet been a drug invented that could have relieved that depression.

But the two sweet kids who appeared on my porch one evening after I got home from work introduced me to a new world. I didn't care if the theology was goofy, though of course I didn't say so. The people were kind and welcoming. I had talents and abilities I could contribute, and these were appreciated. I hadn't felt appreciated in a very long time.

The new friends I made and the "busyness" of the activities helped me to heal. I eventually got over the depression and was able to get on with a new life. Of course, as I healed, I was able to see that there were some not-so-nice elements to Mormonism, and I found RfM, which validated what I was seeing.

So I'm not a Mormon any more, but the kindness of the people in my first ward provided emotional crutches for me for a while, until I could get around without the support.

The religion itself is a crock, but the kindness of many of the people who believe in it probably saved my life - and for that, I will always be grateful.

at a vulnerable time, but I'm glad you made it out entirely. That took guts.

You love Satan.

It is all your fault.

Mormonism.

It's been discussed here many times how certain personality types are overrepresented in Mormonism, ie the Meyers-Briggs system for one.

It is actually a defining element of a cult that people's type tend to drift to the dominant personalities types of the group, probably those of the leaders, while in a healthy organization people's personality types stay the same. Scary that the pressure to conform is so intense in a cult that many members turn into completely different people. The more hard core the cult, the stronger the pressure to change probably is.

Yes. Taking 10% of my measley income didn't leave enough to pay for psychological help. Prayer, temple attendance, and going the extra mile in my callings didn't solve the problems, as promised, either. 10 months out of LD$ has improved my mental health more than 23 years in.

Yes, again. My lack of boundaries, penchant for depression and people pleasing personality were just the right fit for LD$.

I don't think they are able to differentiate between what is required of a convert and mental illness. If not for the copious numbers of functional but fragile people in the world, they might not have any converts at all. And today, the more successful in life have access to the Internet and can Google the Mormon church upon hearing about it. The more emotionally or mentally fragile cling to religion and magical thinking and support (such as it is) from the missionaries. Sure, the missionaries think, they're not going to be good members, but we need the numbers. And thanks to the mentally ill, the work rolls forth. Kind of.

You would have revelations and visions and the lds church would think your completely sane

Considering how many people have these mental disorders and illness, it can't possibly have one cause. Millions of people are diagnoses with these illnesses.

I know people with these illnesses that are not LDS. In fact, many more than are LDS.

People are desperate to find a cause for their illnesses.

Until we understand the brain better, we won't have a cause and a cure. Treatment is about as good as it gets.

Considering how many people have these mental disorders and illness, it can't possibly have one cause. Millions of people are diagnoses with these illnesses.

I know people with these illnesses that are not LDS. In fact, many more than are LDS.

People are desperate to find a cause for their illnesses.

Until we understand the brain better, we won't have a cause and a cure. Treatment is about as good as it gets.

I can't say with any personal experience that mental illness is exploited by the LDS Church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2013 02:07PM by SusieQ#1.

Well, you can't say that the Mormon cult does not cause depression, because it caused mine. The minute I walked out of there for good, the depression left, never to return. It was a miracle!

Mormonism definitely causes low self-esteem, especially in women, children, and the less gifted, the less attractive.

My ex husband hid behind the church and bullied me almost to death. He quoted the D&C 132 as he beat me. The church leaders told me to stay in the marriage, no matter what. I contemplated suicide, but got a divorce, instead. This monster is still a "member in good standing" in the Mormon church, and is on his third temple marriage. He marries rich women, and they pay lots of tithing.

You would think that the Mormon church would be more concerned with the mental health of its members, because mental illness causes a decrease in salary, due to absenteeism, and inability to work altogether, like Don Bagley's family. His family is so like mine. We have more than our share of Narcissists. I believe that Narcissism, like Joseph Smith's salesman/story-teller/charismatic/con-man personality is the Mormon ideal. Egotistical, aggressive people like this bring in more recruits for the cult. They tend to make more money (at least, temporarily). They advertise themselves, put themselves forward. When I was a little girl, they would call this the "Napoleon complex." These people ruled the world! My mother and two of my brothers were Narcissists. My other brother was bi-polar with anger issues. I was an introvert with PTSD. Good grades, studying, and luck got me my career--not my personality.

Mormons pretend to love the poor kids with Down's Syndrome or Asperger's. They openly demonstrate this at church. My Asperger's brother was the ward "pet." He pretended he was retarded, to get sympathy and attention. He got away with beating-up girls and smaller kids. The Mormons enjoyed forgiving him.

The whole religion is sick, based in sickness, lies, and the depravity of polygamy. Add a lot of in-breeding (at least in my TBM family), isolation, arrogance, and too much power, and you get--well--a lot of Joseph Smith clones.

Mormonism flat out ignores the elephant in the (celestial?) room, mental illness.

Mormonism shuns the severely mentally ill, (aside from their baptisims.)

Mormonism exploits the mentally ill in the same way they exploit most everyone else they can. Guilt, money, time, family.



If you are mentally ill and Mormon, I would suggest dealing with the mental illness first, with non-Mormon professionals.

Hi,

From personal experience, yes, the Church takes advantage of those with mental illness to win converts. I was one of them. At the time, I was suffering from a serious physical illness (that I thankfully fully recovered from). It was so painful and stressful that it led to panic attacks. At the time that I met the missionaries, I was both vulnerable and desperate, young and searching for "spiritual" answers that I couldn't find in the religion of my birth. I was steered to the missionaries by a close friend who was very helpful to me, and a Mormon. I knew nothing about the religion at the time. My friend assumed that I was straight. Little could I have guessed what was about to happen.

Looking back, I think that being paid lots of attention by fine looking, charismatic young men, just several years younger than me, and being told deeply comforting messages met huge emotional needs that I had. It was a logical progression from meeting with the missionaries to getting baptized. But once I started attending the local ward, I quickly realized that my experience of Mormonism with the missionaries and my experience in a ward were completely different. The former was with kids close to my own age, and it was fun. In the latter, I was surrounded by people much older than me, generally all married and with children. I was just a grad student at the time. I had nothing in common with them, and I knew from the beginning that I could never marry (a woman) and have children. After a few months of limited involvement, I left without a trace, and that was the extent of my involvement.

Ironically, I'm still an official member. (Why "resign" from an imaginary "body of Christ?") And I'm intensely interested in Mormon history, and in Mormons--particularly gay Mormons. My personal values generally coincide with the values (really, the ideals) of the Mormon culture. That has never changed. There's much that I admire about the Church and its members. I tend to think that over the long haul, the Church will get past its anti-gayism, and find a way to reinvent itself and keep moving forward as a successful organization. That may take 50 years or a century, though, and who knows what might happen meanwhile?

Anyway, yes, the Church exploits mental illness, and any other point of leverage to win converts.

Best,

Steve

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2013 08:35PM by steve benson.

Steve,

This is true, and a really important point. Not only does the Church exploit existing mental illness, but it really does cause new cases of mental illness.

If you're interested in a truly enlightened explanation of what mental illness is and how it arises, the first chapter of the book, _How Psychotherapy Really Works: How It Works When It Works and Why Sometimes It Doesn't_ by Willard Gaylin, MD, is spectacular!

Best,

Steve

Yes. More reasons to know that than I could possibly go into here but a resounding, absolutely positive YES.

It was driving me crazy, so I left.

is there ANYTHING that Mormonism Doesn't Exploit?
any circumstance, any situation that isn't 'an invitation' for you to help TSCC in its 'Divine Mission'?

any weakness

any financial capacity for anyone?


I'd like to know.

The last 3 converts in my last ward were as follows:

Male,40,single, cerebral palsy, alone, in wheelchair.

Male,28, single, mental issues, jobless, no car, no family.

Female,38, single, ms, jobless, no car, 5 kids, extreme mental issues, no visible family support, on welfare.


Those were the only converts I saw in the 12 years in that ward.

MadAlice,

That sounds like a motley crew of converts. Did they remain active?

Maybe Heavenly Father decided to visit his punishment upon your former ward for their iniquities.

Steve

At 19, I was living in the foreign language housing at BYU. I'd just broken up with my boyfriend, whom I was forced to see several times a day. I'd been questioning my faith since age 14, and had reached the point where I was ready to leave. But I was at freakin' BYU and I was afraid that by "coming out" I would lose everything, my scholarship, my friends, my family, my world. I felt trapped. Yes, I was depressed. So, I went to the BYU counseling center. They sent me to the health center shrink. He put me on prozac. 6 weeks later I was cutting and suicidal, two things I had never done before. I spent the next 7 years of life being told that I was severely mentally ill and would never be independent or functional again. My mother, herself a therapist, never questioned this. TSCC clergy and my parents told me all my religious doubts were due to my mental illness.

Well guess what, bitches. Turns out that going off SSRIs cured the urges to harm myself. Funny how not one of the bazillion doctors who saw me ever mentioned that SSRIs often cause suicidal behavior in young adults! And no one ever mentioned that maybe leaving BYU and getting away from an unbearable situation would resolve the depression, which it did. When I resigned, my bishop tried to convince that it was just my mental illness talking.

To this day, my mom refuses to believe that I am well, even though I've been off all meds for years and haven't had any depression or suicidal urges since then. I have a graduate degree, career, husband, etc. She goes around telling people that I left the church because I am mentally ill. It hurts like a son of a bitch. But I have a great life now, and I have myself to thank for that.

"Well guess what, bitches."

LOL!

You tell them, sister!

Steve

Note I never been a member but helped my GF leave so this is based on second hand knowledge.

Well its pretty much my theory that the LDS not only exploits mental illness it encourages it. If I was told and believed that every passing thought was divinely inspired or that with faith anything is achievable its not hard to see how mental illness can start to fester. To top it all off the church puts a bunch of stress on you and can engage in verbal abuse to break you down and reshape you as they see fit.

... does exploit it nontheless.

Timothy

I totally agree.

Here's exactly how Mormonism causes/exacerbates mental illness.

It promotes delusions as real, for example:

Mormonism: You are a god in embryo
Mental Illness: You are Jesus Christ

Mormonism: God/angels/ancestors speak to people
Mental Illness: I hear voices

Mormonism: When God/angels/ancestors speak, you must obey
Mental Illness: I hear voices and I must obey

Mormonism: You were rewarded for valiance in the pre-existence by being born in America (to a Mormon family...)
Mental Illness: I am very special not like other people

Mormonism: You can talk to God and he rewards or punishes you
Mental Illness: I can talk to God he rewards or punishes me

Mormonism: You have special powers of priesthood
Mental Illness: I have special powers

Mormonism: You have more light
Mental Illness: I have more light than others

Mormonism: God can tell you to kill someone and you should obey because it's better than a nation perishing in disbelief.
Mental Illness: I could be told to kill someone and I should obey

Mormonism: If people disagree with you about the church, they are lacking in faith and languishing in darkness--they will be caste aside when the wheat and the tares are sorted
Mental Illness: People who disagree with me are worth less than me and are disposable

Mormonism: Wisdom comes from faith and obedience as a gift of the spirit
Mental Illness: I don't need education if I believe.

Mormonism: Other people do the thinking for you-all you need to do is pray and obey.
Mental Illness: Voices in my head (God/angels/ancestors) tell me what to do

Mormonism: You will not receive any negative consequences for leaving your children to serve the church.
Mental Illness: The normal rules of cause and effect don't apply to me. I won't reap what I sowed because I am a special warrior.

Mormonism: If you give your money away, you will get much more back
Mental Illness: I don't have to be responsible with money--financial prosperity is based on God's promises.

Mormonism: The world will eventually recognize the Mormon church, and you, as God's representative
Mental Illness: People already recognize me as God's representative


Mormonism promotes narcissism and subverts the normal parental instincts, turning a parent's love for their children into a determination that even at the cost of earthly life, eternal life is what matters. They become determined to do everything and anything to "bring their children back into the presence of the Father."

They have sacrificed the presence of themselves as a Father in their children's childhood and replaced it with the cowbird parent, Mormonism.

As a former women's leader in Mormonism, I can tell you that the underbelly of the church is the deep despondence and misery of the women. Literally every other one who came to me for personal coaching was suicidal.

It was the beginning of the end for me. I will never, ever forget the eerie cheerfulness, the plastic smile that would accompany the statement, "I want to stop longing for death, it is such a downer, you know, (smile)." And the tears that slipped almost unnoticed down these cheeks as these young, apparently vibrant women talked about their desire to end their earthly life (this "test") and get on to "the good stuff," the afterlife.


Anagrammy

Does Mormonism exploit mental illness?

Yes, yes it does... I have several views on this subject, all from personal experience.

While I was a missionary, we were often told to search out the meek and the humble to look for converts. I watched as several missionaries actively looked for people with obvious mental deficiencies, people with learning disabilities, etc. They would justify this to themselves as "helping" the less fortunate, getting them into the church system so that the church could help lift them up. This always felt shmarmy to me, as some of these people obviously just liked the attention and some didn't seem to really understand what they were being told. Imagine later that they are told to fork over 10% of whatever income they have, or that they would be burned forever and I think that builds and argument for taking advantage of mental illness.

Then there is the personal case of my mother. She has at the very least severe depression, and has been diagnosed with Chronic Immune dysfunction (basically, she's too tired to really do anything, ever). While dealing with this, she has been the young woman's president, various teachers, a visiting teacher (luckily someone was smart enough to usually have her neighbors be the people she's supposed to "visit"), early morning seminary teacher (you try getting up at 5:30 in the morning when you're already exhausted)... All because she is one of the most TBM'iest people you will ever meet. The one and only time she asked to be removed from her calling, feeling massive guilt in the process, they told her that "They didn't release the prophet (Spenser Kimball) when he was hospitalized, we won't be releasing you either." This of course added to her guilt and she "endured" things as best she could... She still is, she feels as though she must always have a calling, no matter how small or large and that she must accept pretty much any calling that they send her way.

As for causing mental illness, I, unfortunately, have recently been learning quite a lot about mental illness, and while I'm no expert, I have a couple of thoughts. I think that some people, maybe even many people can be prone to mental illness, depression, anxiety, etc. and never "get" it unless they are pushed into it. Maybe it's genetic or something else physical that lies dormant, waiting for a trigger that may never come. The LDS doctrine pushes a lot of the buttons that can trigger these things... Group pressure to public speak, massive guilt, callings that aren't appropriate to a person's personality type, monetary issues, near constant work which allows for no down time or relief. Even mind control through repetition and peer pressure. Not to mention the disastrous cognitive dissonance that people need to hold it all together. These things are not health for the mind, they can push a normally stable person's "trigger" if they have them and drop them over the edge. It's sad, but I really believe it's true... The LDS church does not make for a healthy mind.

So, in my opinion, yes, it's very exploitive and it can very well push people into mental illness (which it can then take advantage of)