“We recommend that people marry those who are of the same racial background generally, and of somewhat the same economic and social and educational background (some of those are not an absolute necessity, but preferred), and above all, the same religious background, without question” (“Marriage and Divorce,” in 1976 Devotional Speeches of the Year [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1977], p. 144).

The above quote is from the current LDS lesson manual for Young Men. So the recommendation still being given to white males is don't marry someone black, and visa versa.

That is a tough one for me. I am white, my wife is non-white. Been married more than 27 years.

I have a TBM brother who is on his third marriage. I asked him about that priesthood manual, as he is the Young Men's President in his ward. His answer has caused my wife and I to realize that we don't care to ever speak with him again.

In his mind it is a position revealed to prophets from god and those who don't follow it will be miserable. The church causes otherwise rational people to take absurd positions, even against their own family members.

Damn cult.

Follow the Prophet...third marriage...

Sadly your brothers head is up his curelom.

Jon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Follow the Prophet...third marriage...
>
> Sadly your brothers head is up his curelom.


OH? That's what a curelom is! :-)

Dark skin = cursed

They can change "white and delightsome" to "pure and delightsome" but the elephant is still in the room.

Gee...I wonder if my 4 brown kids know they are cursed? I hope not.

The D and C clearly states that it is YOUR responsibility to teach your kids that they are cursed.
You really dropped the ball on this one and should be ashamed.
I'd go right into their rooms right now and wake them up and say, "Guess what? You're cursed and god doesn't love you as much as whitey. Now go back to sleep. Goodnight."

“We recommend that people marry those who are of the same racial background generally, and of somewhat the same economic and social and educational background (some of those are not an absolute necessity, but preferred), and above all, the same religious background, without question” (“Marriage and Divorce,” in 1976 Devotional Speeches of the Year [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1977], p. 144).

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=1f4fa41f6cc20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=198bf4b13819d110VgnVCM1000003a94610aRCRD

© 1995 by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
All rights reserved
Printed in the United States of America
English approval: 1/92

------------

Note that on the table at the following link, "Aaronic Priesthood Manual 3" is in the rotation for 2011. And if you click on the "Aaronic Priesthood Manual 3" link on that page it will take you to the table of contents for this manual. Scroll down to "Lesson 31: Choosing an Eternal Companion" and click.

http://lds.org/pa/display/0,17884,5099-1,00.html

JoD3:360 kindly put a link for the lesson manual for young men.
But having looked at it I find that one part states =

“While I am sure some young couples... You must do the choosing, rather than to seek for some one-and-only so-called soul mate, chosen for you by someone else and waiting for you. You are to do the choosing. You must be wise beyond your years and humbly prayerful unless you choose amiss” (BKPacker Eternal Love [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1973], p. 11).

The words 'you must do the choosing' seem to jump out. So do they choose themselves or do they do as the morg tells them.
More confusion. Haven't the kids got it hard enough as it is just growing up without some pompous old idiot strutting his stuff and laying down RULES.

“We recommend .......... blah bla"

Just the word 'recommend' coming from Mormon Leaders is enough to church my stomach.

The best recommendation they could ever make is to recommend that no one listens to them because they don't actually know anything about anything.

The more I find out, the more I realise just how close I was to geting SCREWED BIG TIME by the CULT.

Now I fully understand about when one convert lady told me that her non LDS adult chidren have 'warned' her never to bring the grand kids to church or talk about it!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2011 09:49AM by zeezrom.

...bout to gagged me in that "Aaronic Priesthood Manual 3" - the one about the daggone TITHING! Gotta get their pound-a flesh, don't they now?

Racism was a big reason for me leaving the church. I can't believe they have that in the manual still.

I have a friend whose first wife was the SP daughter. Would have met the "white" part (she was a tall, pretty blond), but she turned out to be not so delightsome. He had moved to NYC, and his current wife is from Africa, with beautiful dark skin.

One of my grandmothers was so rascist. I remember as a young child being very confused and disturbed by her comments when she watched TV. Having a best friends in first grade that was black I couldn't understand her view.

They just recently changed some of the more racist wording in the BOM, which is good. It still crops up sometimes, but it isn't a huge part of their beliefs really anymore.

Most Mormons aren't even aware of how ridiculously and overtly racist some of their doctrine can be.

They only changed the chapter headings. All of the verses are still unchanged.

Good point.

It is true that if you marry a person of a different culture you are going to introduce new challenges to a marriage. Statistically speaking, having a common culture, religion, socio-economic background, along with a few other things reduces the rate of divorce. However it doesn't doom a relationship to failure, it just brings up different struggles than a couple of the same culture.

What drives me crazy about this is the church's way of making this into a race issue. There are people of all sorts of colors that are just as American as a white person. A white person marrying a black person that's family has been in the U.S. for over 100 years, isn't the same a a white person marrying a black person that is from a tribal town in Africa.

It doesn't really matter if they still teach it, it's rampant in the church and you can't soft-pedal it.

From TruthandGrace:

Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 7:, p.291

Remarks by President Brigham Young, delivered in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, October 9, 1859.

You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race-that they should be the "servant of servants;" and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree. How long is that race to endure the dreadful curse that is upon them? That curse will remain upon them, and they never can hold the Priesthood or share in it until all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the Priesthood and the keys thereof. Until the last ones of the residue of Adam's children are brought up to that favourable position, the children of Cain cannot receive the first ordinances of the Priesthood. They were the first that were cursed, and they will be the last from whom the curse will be removed. When the residue of the family of Adam come up and receive their blessings, then the curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will receive blessings in like proportion.



1 Nephi 11:8 And it came to pass that the Spirit said unto me: Look! And I looked and beheld a tree; and it was like unto the tree which my father had seen; and the beauty thereof was far beyond, yea, exceeding of all beauty; and the whiteness thereof did exceed the whiteness of the driven snow.

1 Nephi 11:13 And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of Nazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white.

1 Nephi 12:23 And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations. (Joe Smith calls dark skinned people ugly, filthy, lazy, and perverts.)

1 Nephi 13:15 And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles, and they did prosper and obtain the land for their inheritance; and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people before they were slain.

2 Nephi 5:21 For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

2 Nephi 30:6 And then shall they rejoice; for they shall know that it is a blessing unto them from the hand of God; and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a pure white (1830 edition) and a delightsome people.

Jacob 3:8 O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought with them before the throne of God.

Alma 3:6 And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.

3 Nephi 2:15 And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites.

Mormon 5:15 And also that the seed of this people may more fully believe his gospel, which shall go forth unto them from the Gentiles; for this people shall be scattered, and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us, yea, even that which hath been among the Lamanites, and this because of their unbelief and idolatry.

It's a big PDF file. On page 62, it has a lesson about God using skin color as a curse.

http://institute.lds.org/content/languages/english/Institute%20of%20Religion%20Materials/Student%20Manuals/Religion%20121-122,%20Book%20of%20Mormon%20Student%20Manual~eng.pdf

1. What was the curse?
The curse is clearly defined in verse 20 as being “cut off from the presence of the Lord.”

2. What caused the curse?
According to verse 21, the cause of the curse came “because of their iniquity” and “hardened . . . hearts.” Since the days of Adam’s Fall, wickedness has resulted in being cut off from the presence of the Lord (see 1 Nephi 2:21; 2 Nephi 4:4; 9:6; Alma 9:13; Ether 10:11).

3. What was the mark or sign set upon the Lamanites?
It is also explained in verse 21 that so “they might not be enticing unto my people [the Nephites] the Lord did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them [the Lamanites].” ....


Oh, and my favorite response to that stuff being in the past?

"You changed 'white' to 'pure' in the BoM. They only other people who think those words are equivalent are in the KKK".

Notice this on Page 67?

“The dark skin of those who have come into the
Church is no longer to be considered a sign of the
curse. . . . These converts are delightsome and have
the Spirit of the Lord”

In other words, becoming LDS removes the curse. But what about dark skin indigenous individuals who are not LDS? Well, they are not delightsome!

page 62, not 67

. . . why would not that dark skin (imposed by God on the wicked) be removed by God when the wicked repent and join the Mormon church?

Just another on of those mysteries of fraudliness, I guess.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2011 02:18AM by steve benson.

It's rather I think a more mormon culture thing that has its roots in early mormonism and extends through the 60's. I think as those people die out, so will the racism to a point. However, I think most of us are most comfortable with people of our won race. It takes a cognitive effort to warm up to people of other races. In fact, I think that holds true for people of other races as well - maybe even more so. There's not that many people of color in utah, so I would surmise the Utahn's may take a bit longer than other areas of the country to make any changes.

I disagree with your last statement. Racism is a learned behaviour that people are not born with -- children learn this from their parents. Your feeling of "comfort" is a reaction to what you were taught to fear or loathe about "the others" while growing up.

When we go down to the park, the only ones not playing or talking together are the adults. The kids don't even seem to notice, and they don't seperate themselves into color groups. If anything they only seperate themselves according to gender. Black and brown and white girls, and white brown and black boys allplaying together while the grownups clump up in groups of brown black and white.

If you want kids to distrust and dislike each other, you have to teach them, cuz otherwise they will laugh together and play together and help each other up even into adulthood.

I know you don't think the Church is still teaching it, but it most certainly is.
Look at the quote in the original post taken straight from the current Aaronic Priesthood manual being taught to Young Men in all wards - they are being advised not to enter into mixed race marriages, thats racism.

Ouch! I've never seen that before--how can the church and apologists possibly wriggle out of that one, if they've said in the past that "pure" instead of "white" clarified the meaning of the passage!?

TK, do you have any references/links for that "pure white" quote from the 1830 BoM. I found a scanned image of the relevant passage from the first edition of the BoM, but it only says "pure and delightsome:"

http://www.irr.org/mit/bom/1830bom-p117.html

2 Nephi 30:6 And then shall they rejoice; for they shall know that it is a blessing unto them from the hand of God; and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a pure white (1830 edition) and a delightsome people.

Here is the clarification:

2 Nephi 30:6 (RLDS 2Nephi12:84) And then shall they rejoice; for they shall know that it is a blessing unto them from the hand of God; and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white (1830 and early LDS and 1908 RLDS edition) and a delightsome people. Current LDS version 1981 says Pure.

Baltimore is the largest city in Maryland, with a population of 637,000 in 2009. The racial makeup of the city is 65% African American, and 31% white. In 2009 there were 238 homicides in the city, which was the fourth-highest homicide rate per capita of all U.S. cities of 250,000 or more population. Although this was significantly lower than the record-high 379 homicides in 1993, the homicide rate in Baltimore is nearly seven times the national rate, six times the rate of New York City, and three times the rate of Los Angeles. Baltimore had one homicide per 2676 people.

In 2010 Utah had a population of 2,750,000. There were 37 homicides in Utah, which is one homicide per 74,324 people. Thus Baltimore’s homicide rate was 27.8 times greater than Utah’s homicide rate. If Utah had the same homicide rate as Baltimore, there would have been 1027 Utah homicides in 2010, instead of the actual 37.

In Baltimore there are extensive areas that are “black ghettos.” If you are a white person you don’t ever want to enter such an area. You need to fear the black people for your own safety and survival. This point was learned by my (white) wife, fortunately with no bad consequences. One evening, after dark, she and a friend were driving in Baltimore City. They were trying to find a location where a book festival was being held. But they got lost and inadvertently drove into a black ghetto area.

They knew they were in the wrong place but they didn’t know the way out. Then they were lucky enough to see a parked police car and they stopped to ask the police officer for directions. He was a black man and his first statement to them was “You REALLY should not be here.” They asked him for directions and he kind enough to say “follow me and I will lead you to a main highway.” So they followed the police officer’s car for about two miles until they reached a main highway that was out of the ghetto.

They were very thankful for the police officer’s assistance. That was a learning experience that ended well, but it really scared my wife. She is not likely to make that mistake again.

Reservation border towns experience it from whites.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40421002/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts

Utah is not as safe for non-whites as many might think.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=1403889

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

You have to look at crime rates among African-Americans compared to other racial groups of similar socio-economic backgrounds before you can make any case that race "causes" criminality.

You're comparing a large city with an entire state? Yes, it's true that you're less likely to be a victim of a violent crime in the middle of nowhere, UT than downtown Baltimore. That has nothing to do with race.

The poster stated that whites need to be afraid. The facts show something different.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2010-01-03/news/bal-md.ci.yearend03jan03_1_homicide-gun-charges-victims

"An analysis of Baltimore's numbers shows that, similar to prior years, the city's victims were overwhelmingly black (88 percent), and both suspects and victims were likely to have criminal records."

If you teach that the "first man" was white, you're teaching racism... and nonsense.