I left the church with my family when my kids were age 8, 10, and 12.

The oldest and youngest have found mates, but my middle daughter, now 25, is fretting about her future. I've tried telling her there is plenty of time, though I tend to worry some.

She graduated college, only to end up working in a jewelry store, where not much opportunity to meet unattached young men.

She used to go out to bars, but is tired of that. She did ditch one boyfriend partly because of his drinking problem.

I have emphasized pursuing education and career, but I overheard her telling her sister she just really wants to get married and have kids and stay home.

So, while she hates the Mormon religion, seems she likes the lifestyle. I once joked she should go back to church and marry a guy, and then get him to leave it. She said forget it.

Anyway, she's going back to grad school, partly just to get out of her hole and possibly meet guys. In my unbiased opinion, she's attractive, but just wants to find a decent guy - family oriented, non-drinker, etc.

Was pretty easy for me finding my wife in church - had dozens of girls to choose from. Now it seems outside of that, it's all pretty random as to who you happen to meet, or you have to go to bars or something.

She's done some online dating which hasn't worked well, and I've suggested joining clubs, but she doesn't have a particular interest.

I'm glad your daughter is going to go to grad school. It sounds like she really needs to broaden her horizons and get enthusiastic about something--anything! Develop some interests, take up running or hiking, travel to another country. If she's doing things to help others or things that she enjoys, she will meet interesting people and she will be the kind of person others want to spend time with.

*shrugs* wouldnt hurt to check out the local singles ward just to see what was out there.. I know of guys that are NOM's that go there to find ladies to date.

other than that, I imagine it would be pretty difficult.... I would say that she should get involved at school and join some clubs or something.

Some single guys at the gym are there to meet other single guys; not that there's anything wrong with that.

But unless she joins a women's - only gym; she'll be around lots of men at the gym.

If she wants to go to church to meet men to date, suggest that she check out some more open minded liberal churches, & avoid the cult like the plague.

Sounds like good advice. I think part of the problem is her primary interest has been guys. She spent a few years on each of a couple of relationships - just kind of hanging out with them and living with one. The last one finally told her he just wanted to be friends. Based on certain things, I suspect he was gay.

Anyway, it is perhaps ironic, that if you zero in on guys, and don't pursue some other interest, the less likely you are to find them.

I do wish there was some kind of general organization for young people, not based on religion or booze, where they could meet.

You're going to laugh at this, but I was a paying member of a certain band's fan club for several years (I would still be, but I can't afford it anymore). You wouldn't believe how many couples had gotten together, & a few had even gotten married, because of meeting through this fan club. If your daughter has specific interests or hobbies, I echo the suggestion that she seek out hobby groups or organizations to be a part of. & going back to school will be good for her as well.

There are organizations like that, but they are usually organized around interests. It allows people to get to know one another without it all being about the pressure to find the one. In the case of a young woman I know, when she broke up with her yucky previous boyfriend and she wasn't meeting enough young people in her job, she went online and began chatting with someone who shared her interests (i.e. interests beyond just wanting to meet someone). They met up for a matinee movie and a burger and discovered that they shared a ton of interests, things that they both like to do. Now they do them together. That's how it works best.

I kinda know how you feel. My sibling is 30, no marriage, no kids, no college education. It's sorta sad, but at that same time she has a lot of personal things to work on, and that's more important than finding a boyfriend. I would suggest having a serious conversation about finding interests or hobbies. Suggest motivational/inspiring books to read. My sibling started doing these things and going to therapy, it does seem to help. And if she finds a nice guy along the way, then great! But it is so true when people say you can't/shouldn't try looking for someone until you look for yourself.

I wish you and your daughter luck!

25 is young. I wouldn't worry.

Is she in Utah? I sympathize. No offense to those in the forum, but as a guy in the late 20's who grew up on the east coast I find my fellow males around here in general to be weak, passive aggressive, overcompensating, and emotionally immature (lots of general losers, moochers, etc). Those who make it to the bars have gone through the church gauntlet and are damaged goods by then.

Maybe she could look to relocating to one of the coasts. There's no immediate pressure for someone as young as 25 to get shacked up and married, people are well-balanced mentally, have genuine interests and have genuine friends. Where there is a bar scene those who go do go on a normal basis, to have fun, socialize after work, etc...unless you go looking for them there's none of the taboo/extreme feel to the bars as there is in SLC (plus the quality of the food, drinks, and cocktails are better too). And a larger ratio of the single men she could meet would be more apt not to be divorced with children, mentally stable, sewn oats, and pursuing successful careers.

My daughter is 21 she agrees 100% with your comment so many guys she meets just want to hang out, don't have jobs or cars and would be very happy to have her pay for them to go out. Very frustrating dating in Utah as a non Mormon.

She's got to get out of Utah. Even Never-Mo's and ExMo's there aren't normal. The culture is pretty weird and totally over-the-top. I suggest a big city in the NW or East Coast with a good mass transit system, lots of young professionals, lots of little neighborhood pubs, and urban parks.

Have her check outk out the Bay area, Portland, Seattle, Boston, NYC, Philly, D.C., Philly, and etc. Some of the larger cities in the south have a great never-Mo single season and are surprisingly progressive. Atlanta, Charlotte, and etc.

She is planning on Seattle for grad school, she can't wait to leave Utah. She has no desire at this point to get serious with anyone school is her total focus.

...in a large Evangelical church. Tristan suggested that she check out liberal churches. I suggest that the motivation to actually marry there would not be as strong as at a conservative church. And you did say that she "likes the lifestyle." A conservative Evangelical church could give her a comfortable religious lifestyle, along with the traditional family values and morality you imply she wants without the wacky tscc doctrines and stringent legalism. For example, most Evangelicals I know drink; others don't.

I have to admit that I suggested "liberal" churches because everyone I have ever known who was conservative evangelical is a crazy whacko religious hardass, just as bad as anyone in the cult.

Maybe traditional Protestant churches - Lutheran, Methodist, Episcopalian, etc?

And although this is the most superficial of on-line friendships, at least one Biblical Christian hasn't checked his brains at the door. My journey into faith is complex, but at a certain point I found atheism bankrupt and liberal religion beset with too many compromises involving social and political causes.

I illustrate my thoughts by stating that I believe in an actual Heaven and Hell as some kind of spiritual state which our sensory and scientific means cannot discern. Fire, brimstone, streets of gold and the Messianic banquet are symbolic representations.

I hope I didn't offend you.

I'm just tired of religious people telling me that I have no morals, ideals, or standards, simply because I'm an atheistic-agnostic. I am tired of dealing with one religious person after another who are incredibly hypocritical, especially in the fact that they won't own up to their questionable behavior because they are "saved". Because they are "saved" they think they can continue to behave badly, doing all kinds of reckless things. & then there is the harm the has come to my schizophrenic older sister in her obsession with & addiction to Christian belief. In the past, she was in several situations where she was told to stop taking her medications, & that "God" would save her & cure her. It was very horrific, & was ultimately the last straw for me being involved in her life.

Having said that, I still believe that religion continues to have deep historical, cultural, & philosophical significances that have helped shape our world. I don't think I'm better than anyone else, or that I'm right & you're wrong, or anything like that. I'm an incredibly open minded person, sometimes to a fault. But I do have morals, & ideals, & standards, & I am still a person of faith - in humanity.

& I greatly apologize for high jacking this thread.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2013 04:51AM by Tristan.

The goal should be developing a strong, loving relationship. From that relationship, a desire to marry evolves in a natural way. When you overly stress the importance of the marriage (often, not even the marriage but the wedding gets stressed most) instead of the relationship, it makes for big problems.

I agree.

I'm of the opinion that when people are in a strong relationship for several years (living together, taking care of each other, having kids in some cases) that they are already married, & that the ceremony is just a technicality.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2013 02:31AM by Tristan.

I agree with you Tristan. It is almost as though any "ceremony" is more like a renewal of the vows you have been making all along in a good relationship.

There are two kinds of bars. Drinking bars, and social bars. Oh, and nudy bars too, but we will not talk about those in this post. Social bars are like drinking bars, because a lot of alcohol gets consumed, but they are different, in that they have dance floors, pool tables, darts, and a host of other activities. Sometimes a drinking bar will have these things too, but they are more of an afterthought.

My point is, even if she is not drinking, or only drinking moderately, social bars, or clubs as they are often known, are great places to meet people. There is also no rule that she has to drink herself into oblivion, or even have to drink at all.

Isn't there a series of sites called meetup or close to that?
Folks at work go to several. They have all manner of groups.
Theater, hiking, poker, and I forget what else.

There might be something there she'd like.

You know, once she figures it out, let me know. As a 25 year old single guy living in Utah, it is hard to meet interesting girls that aren't Mormon, maybe I'll figure it out someday, haha, or I'll just move out of state.

She is in WA state, at the same university where I met her mom at the LDS Institute.

I've discussed pursuing her interests, which I believe she is with grad school. She's always liked animals, and we have a small farm. She's going into research in animal science.

Only thing is she says most the people in grad school are female, which seems to be the trend generally in colleges.

Women getting more educated and making more money, while guys are being delivery truck drivers or whatever.

I do tell her that things will work out, but I just think she wants someone soon. She sent me a photo of a dinner she made the other night, thanking me for the green beans, beef and potatoes I raised for her. My thought was she was eating it alone - maybe hurts me more than her.

At least her sister lives in town, and they're fired up for football game tonight, and activities afterwards.

exmo59 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Only thing is she says most the people in grad
> school are female, which seems to be the trend
> generally in colleges.
>
> Women getting more educated and making more money,
> while guys are being delivery truck drivers or
> whatever.


I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree. It's so that the women can keep up with what the men are making. This is what I'm to finding in my regular life, & not statistics. Even though statistics will say that on average women are still only making even in the best circumstances 75-77 cents on the dollar. Women need all the education they can get to make as much money as men who have less education than they do.

Does not seem to have any issues meeting girls. He is totally inactive and has not been to church for probably 9 or 10 years.

Graduate school actually may not be the best place to meet someone. You get focused down to interacting with a small set of students -unlike undergrad degree where you meet lots of kids in lots of different classes. Lots of grad students are already in committed relationships. She'll have to be a bit outgoing and go to concerts, clubs, activities ect. Meet Ups that do outdoor activities seem to be a good place. My son is into music and comedy performing and seems to meet lots of interesting young ladies.

If your daughter was a guy I'd suggest she give the local Dee's Dances a try.
Dee's Dances have been going on for probably decades as an alternative to the TSCC controlled LDS Dances.
They average roughly 600 to 900 singles every Saturday night and they start at 9am.
If I had to guess they probably draw mostly inactive and non believing LDS, but also TBMs, and some non-Mormons as well.

If a guy has anything "on the ball" he can probably find what he's looking for
at these dances because of the wide variety. In fact, I met my perfect match there and we're now married.
Unfortunately, women have less to pick from because the men there, but not all of them,
tend to be somewhat immature and socially challenged. A problem common to men raised in Utah.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2013 12:50PM by heretic.

She needs to spend time pursuing hobbies and meeting people. It doesn't need to be an obsession, but it should be treated like a pursuit or even a job. Her job is to become involved in as many things as possible and meet as many people as possible.

Once that happens, everything falls into place. Statistics do the heavy lifting at that point and she'll meet plenty of potentially awesome guys to date.

Of course, if she is an introvert, this will be difficult.

Good advice. It's really a numbers game.

I would also suggest dog walking -- if not your own, then as a volunteer dog walker for the local SPCA. If you are walking a cute, friendly dog, lots of people will stop you to chat.

Exmo59, hopefully your daughter will meet someone in grad school or at her subsequent job. She should definitely check out the satellite libraries at her school -- i.e., the engineering library, the business library, etc. If asked, she can always just say that the satellite library is "quieter." Also, she can get a job as a GA in a variety of departments.

Are you in Utah? Get her the hell out. Seriously.

Go somewhere else, 25 is hardly an old maid. Go somewhere she's interested in, get involved in charity work and clubs for stuff she's interested in. She'll meet people.

Utah is not a good place for anyone over the age of 21, especially if you're non-mormon, to meet someone! If she must stay though, again, charity work, activity clubs of stuff she's interested in.

Have to heartily disagree with anyone who says check out singles wards. There's a way to heartbreak - later if not sooner.

"Utah is not a good place for anyone over the age of 21, especially if you're non-mormon"

My experience as a 20-something in Utah is completely the opposite. When I used to be in the dating game I would meet 4-5 new partners a month. Mostly exmormon, the occasional jack-mo, and some non-mos. Some of them turned out great, some of them turned out bad. Every so often one would be more of a long term thing and even though I was more seriously dating someone, I would still meet (just not date) new people constantly.

I'm not trying to brag either. I knew people who were meeting at least that many new people every night they went out.

Salt Lake City is a meat market. It is a great place to meet people. If a 20-something tries to meet someone, they'll find plenty of partners.