How do people climb the ladder? Is it by chance that people are promoted? Are these the worthiest, most righteous, humble, devoted men who climb the ranks?

Surely there are countless worthy men who stay at the ward/stake level their entire lives.

For the most part it's about kinship. Most GA's are related to one another either through blood or marriage.

Another method is to work for the church, e.g. in CES.

If all else fails, be a typical corporate narcissist and you might get called too.

Oh, and one more method: pay loads of tithing. That gets you noticed more than anything else. When a new SP is called, for instance, a GA is flown in and the first thing he does is review tithing records to match grass roots candidate suggestions.

It's all so inspired it makes my head spin.

As "rt" notes, kinship is important. The CES program is another way. Absent family ties it is important to be seen and noticed by the GA's in order to become one. The CES program is good because eventually you can rise to an Institute of Religion,where you can be noticed. Also serving as a MP canput you in the loop with GA's. I don't think it is necessarily the richest,CES employees are not that wealthy, I just think being a loyal "yes" man with connections ids more of the key.

Lenina Wrote:
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Are these the worthiest, most righteous, humble, devoted men who climb the ranks?
>

If the most worthy, righteous, humble, and devoted men were "promoted," then the ranks of stake presidents, seventies, and the Q12 would include truck drivers, mail carriers, firefighters, factory workers, and farmers. But they are not to be seen, and instead you see lawyers, lawyers, lawyers, and a few other platinum-collar professionals.

It is the worst of a nepotistic and incestuous good ole' boys club.

And not a single fisherman.

Or carpenter!

Or plumber even though there are many full of shit!

As Americans, we claim that "any man can become president!" That's insane, of course, because the keys are wealth and placement, not education or accomplishment. It's the same in Mormonism. In fact, they have claimed that God could call ANY man to be the prophet. Just try it some day, and see how it plays out. But new prophets are selected from the Twelve, and those guys are not selected by mere accomplishment, but by a combinations of this like placement, wealth, success as a former minor GA, and relationship to the Twelve. The relationship has to be either family (usually the case) or close friendship (like with Uchtdorf).

Oh. And you have to be white.

Not trying to be argumentative but I think it only fair to point out that many US Presidents have not come from a background of wealth.

+1

That's not being argumentative. That's only being off-track, as we were talking about something else. But it is a point well taken: In American life, money speaks. It's just that the Mormon church is "The One True Church of Jesus Christ." It's supposed to be about humility in leadership. Is it? No.

Don't even bother thinking about it if you are not caucasian.

Well at the very top anyway, there's always a need for area authority seventies.

I can remember my never-mo husband asking my TBM dad if he could get to GA status and my dad said no. My husband was dumbfounded. I then proceeded to show him pics of the GA's and telling him about some of their past occupations and my husband just shook his head.

I had a EQ pres, that became a bishop, that became an MP, whose picture is now in the Ensign conference centerfold. Very dynamic guy, and was well-to-do because of it. In this case, I don't recall/know of him having any other important relatives or friends to suggest nepotism or cronyism. He just worked his way up through the ranks. Good looks, confidence, leadership, and the ability to make money.

What's his name? Surely you wouldn't mind sharing, I mean he's in the Ensign :-)

Oh, sorry. Too IRL for a public board. That could reveal my quaint, little California town since he and his extended family are from here. Here's a hint, though-- he has a first name, middle initial, and last name. :-)

What?

No first initial, middle name, last name?

Yup, it's who you know or what you earn, and if you can earn enough you know enough people already.

J. Golden Kimball said the 3 ways to become a GA were Inspiration, Revelation, and RE-lation.

Well, he got 1 out of 3 right, I guess.

As many have said, the main 3 factors are being white, being a lawyer/CES employee, and being related to someone who's already in the club.

Every once in a while you get someone who rose through the ranks by toeing the line and being a company yes-man. You know those maverick bishops who are generous and do things the way he thinks would work out best for the ward instead of following the CHI? Yeah, they don't become SP usually. And since they're never SP, they never get noticed by the higher-ups.

utahstateagnostics Wrote:
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> J. Golden Kimball said the 3 ways to become a GA
> were Inspiration, Revelation, and RE-lation.
>

Here is the exact J. Golden quote:

"Some people say a person receives a position in this church through revelation, and others say they get it through inspiration, but I say they get it through relation. If I hadn't been related to Heber C. Kimball, I wouldn't have been a damn thing in this church."

Incidentally, I think J. Golden was about as honest as you'll find. I quite like the guy, based on what I can find about him. Also, my brother-in-law's mother (long deceased now) knew him personally, and listened to many of his talks in person. Based on what she told me (before she passed away), I think most of the stories that abound about J. Golden are fairly accurate.

J. Golden is one of a very select few of GA's that I have respect for. Another is my great-grandfather, Orson Pratt. Although I do not agree with everything that Orson taught, his teachings were well thought out, and had (in my opinion) intellectual honesty, based on his understanding at the time. And I respect that. It is something severely lacking in today's crop of GA's.

Nevin Pratt



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2013 12:54AM by nevinpratt.

Well to be an apostle you gotta to be an elite of the elite.

1) Fully indoctrinated member.
2) Clean history. No hint of rebelliousness or problems in the past.
3) History of complete obedience to the church. A total yes man. Church before anything else.
4) The GA's must know you pretty well. That's why they are all white and related. Its about connections. If they don't know you very well, there's no chance in hell that they'd be "inspired" to call you as a GA.
5) Worked your way up the ranks to Stake President or Mission President.
6) You think like them.
7) You have good recommendations from everyone.
8) Being a lawyer or successful businessman certainly helps.
9) You have to be fully invested in the church.

There are corollaries to your profession, your wealth, and your family's wealth and status. I grew up in South Jordan (we have 2 temples beatches!) and more Mormons than I dare say Provo. But, there are very few GAs from South Jordan. Until say the late 80s SoJo was nothing but farmers, teachers, blue collar types and those who generally did not work downtown. The older folks (SP, patriarchs, other prominent members now dying off) were not east side SLC/Holladay heavy hitters in the corporate church. Definitely extremist Mormons, but very much several rungs down the socioeconomic ladder. As a kid I always felt like there was a social and cultural gap that existed between the TBMS of SLC and the folk of the southwest side of the Valley. South Jordan IMO had a larger percentage of uber faithful than SLC. I found it odd that we didn't have more corporate church leaders from there. In the end it's always money.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2013 04:14PM by Yaqoob.

Be a lawyer with a Utah name and don't go on a mission.

How come noboy has mentioned the plain and simple fact that in the private sector you might not have to have been a CEO but you should be able to head a corporation. That's it. The church is a business so you would need a CEO to run it. The 12 function basically as that since they not only have to run a profit making religious organization but also regular businesses owned by the church. Second to that would be church loyalty not theological knowledge as would be important at the top of the Catholic Church. I look at the 12 and I see businessmen not shamans/priests.

The way most GAs get in who are not part of the family is through connections in Church Related businesses. Many started at Beneficial Life or Zion's Bank or in financial service companies related to the Church's real estate holdings. Many were contractors who built Church's, temples etc or supplied the materials and equipment to the Church. Those willing to pay big tithing bucks, who were very ambitious and loyal, with charming vacant wives rise up to Stake President and then on to area callings.

Are these the worthiest, most righteous, humble, devoted men who climb the ranks?

No. They are not the most righteous, but they are definitely the most OBEDIENT. To be a Q12 you have to be connected (preferably related), white, and successful. To be a low-level GA or MP you just need a little luck and a whole lot of obedience.

Blah blah blah at the end of the day these men are all full of shit!!!!!!!!!!! :)

Yes, and right on his way to godhood.

What's that saying....

It's not who you know it is who you blow.