I personally liked all the weird stuff that came with mormonism. It made me feel special and that I was part of something great. Oh and I was looking forward to becoming a god someday.
As Stumbling and Hangar18 said, it's about numbers.
Also, they are getting pelted on the Internet. They know the general public will find baker's hats and secret handshakes off-putting, so they are trying very hard in every other respect to portray themselves as normally as they can.
(Oh, and about that "becoming a god" thing? I don't know that they teach that.)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2013 11:51AM by left4good.
There is a fascinating case study of this: The Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Now called "Commuinty of Christ".
1) They began to struggle financially
2) Then membership began to split between the old school people and the new school- feminist, intellectuals, people who wanted to distant from JS.
3) During their GC, after some serious cloak and dagger moves, women got the priesthood
4) The next Sunday, many members and bishops were locked out of the chapels until they clarified their alligeance.
5) Many spliter groups began- similar to the new age mormon, semi mormon, half ass mormon stuff that is going on now with the LDS. These groups faded is size but solidified in resolve. Most turned into small cultish congregations.
6) They (this is not chronological) joined some protesant alliances of christian churches. In order to join they were to renounce the BOM and DnC as scripture, they were to say they were somy type of helpful inspired book (this is LDS' next stop in 10-20 years)
7)They renamed themselves, denied polygamy completely (they always tried to), they changed their temples to be just a weird visitor temple and overall the got away from the latter day movement.
All of this was a corporate reorganization in order to survive and keep the maximum amont of donors.
I think that LDS is going down a similar path. They have already gotten a pretty bad case of amnesia when it comes to doctrines that are seen as controversial. The temple rite has been cleaned up and has become more about Jesus and the bible. Thery have gotten away from the JS translation of the bibile and the POGP has been removed as a source from most lessons. They are already making statements that the BOM is a "spritual book" and that you cannot hold it to secualr scrutiny. Its all in an effort to keep the next generation from throwing down their baker's hat and walking away.
You might think this cannot happen, but think of the church 20-30 years ago: polygamy was taught, blacks were cursed, feminism were evil, gay anything was the worse evil, bigger and less temples was the norm, less but better missionaries was the lord's new plan.. they change so subtly that it is hard for most to notice but they make huge turns all the time.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2013 01:04PM by erictheex.
6. They only recently joined the National Council of Churches in 2011 or 2012, and have not given up either book. The D&C is still being added to, and the BoM is still used to varying degree, though the Bible and the D&C are the main scriptures today.
7. The Kirtland Temple never was used for secret rituals, as those developed in Nauvoo. The Independence Temple has always been open to the public.
6. No this is the latest group they joined, they joined others in the 90's. and yes they gave up the BOM as the word of God. The DnC is added on but not official word of god, look it up.
7. You are right about Kirkland. But I am talking about the doctrine of the temple rituals, the cult beliefs about the importance of the exact temple lot (which they gave up on along with other important landmarks).
I baptized a break off congregation of 13 former RLDS in florida in 1994.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2013 01:14PM by erictheex.
I think this is a reasonable model for the church to follow, but I doubt they will go that far, they are far wealthier than RLDS was.
Many years ago I knew a faithful RLDS member fairly well. He believed his church would produce the sealed portion of the BoM. He had 'seen things' that convinced him the RLDS were on the right path. Interesting how that turned out, in a way I think they WERE on a better path, still are. But there is a type of humility there that I don't see in the LDS faith, too much false pride in the LDS church still for this to happen IMHO.
I do find that since they did not follow BY, they never got too big for their bridges and and therefore more humble. I don't know if "having more money" will change the course of the LDS, I don't think they will do the same things, but the same type of things.
I do see the RLDS and the LDS beginning to pick thru the bones of their once great and unchanging doctrine and trying to construct some type of sense of it all.
I think that the great day of the LDS church has past and now it must morph in order to fit wit the new reality: Internet, bad economy, slowed/negative growth rate, upset members, embarrassing history, systematic lies and uninspired leaders. They simply can't continue to be the church we grew up in.
erictheex Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > They simply can't continue to > be the church we grew up in.
That's just it. Like Rambo said, they can't afford to be weird or different anymore. Most of the attraction I had to the otherness of the church is gone. There's nothing special about it any more. (Thank Pretend God.)
It is all about the money, as people above have said. That being the case, they are proceeding very clumsily, don't you think? It must be so disappointing to The Brethren that the Stone Rolling Forth has lodged itself somewhere on the mountainside, and that they are forced to begin acting more Protestant.
they are like the weird grandpa that gives you the knock off version of the IPad and gives it to you 8 months after your birthday.
They look so clumsy...trying to get into social media? really? because the internet has helped them so much! Trying to use FB as the new proseliting tool?- Great just as people are getting tired of FB requests...way to go grandpa Monson! Grandpa BKP, thanks for the street talk about sex! little factories, jeeesus.
I can hear their discussions...my grandkid knows about the internets, he is 16 and could be a missionary right now! did you know that they can contact friends on there? My wife got on there and has 15 friends, imagine if they all contacted a non member?! hot diggity dog, thats the ticket tommy!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2013 01:48PM by erictheex.
They are SO incompetent. With that much clout and money I could run TSCC better and make a difference in the world. What great power and resources they have wasted...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2013 01:56PM by erictheex.
They are mainstreaming for the same reason teenagers wear short shorts. They want to be accepted among their peers.
They also want to keep what they've stolen so far, and to add to the loot pile if possible. They can only do that if they have members they can steal from. They are trying to readjust their lies to appear more acceptable. They don't like being viewed as the dork.
Mia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > They are mainstreaming for the same reason > teenagers wear short shorts. They want to be > accepted among their peers. > > They also want to keep what they've stolen so far, > and to add to the loot pile if possible. They can > only do that if they have members they can steal > from. They are trying to readjust their lies to > appear more acceptable. They don't like being > viewed as the dork.
(never-Mo here, born in 1952) All my life, Mormons have presented themselves as white-bread kinda-Christians, in a squeaky-clean Leave-It-To-Beaver way. When I started reading about the history of the religion, I thought "wacko cult--no wonder they're now going the '50s White America route; they're trying desperately to make themselves look more 'normal'!"
In the '70s (when LDS was advertising heavily in "Readers Digest" magazine), the church presented itself as a fun family place to be. What you all have told me of it in recent years gives it all the charm, warmth, and depth of a high-powered MLM kickoff meeting.
I predict more "end of life" contributions being sought by the church, even homes and such if the members are isolated from their families (or never had families). A lifetime of tithing and then the united order at the final summons...
The ultimate and final slap to member's faces: Steal their children's inheritances.
It already happens today in isolated cases by uber faithful (read uber desperate to buy their way into the CK) members as you know. I'm sure they've discussed how to make it SOP churchwide without harming their image by appearing even more money grubbing.
Much like the roommate dating swap that everyone says can't be done, they just haven't hit on the genius needed to pull it off yet.
Yes they are trying to mainstream, but in my opinion, that is just going to put them between a rock and a hard place. And I think that is already happening. It's hard to mainstream when your leaders are condemning homosexuality, and information is so instantly shared. You can't hide things so easily anymore. Its clear that the church is becoming more divided between the more conservative members and the more liberal members. Plus the church is still pretty young and its history is really starting to come back to bite itself.
They are trying to mainstrem, because they dont know what else to do.....its not working. Maybe next they will go back to pushing the peculiar people mantra, and try to keep members segregated from mainstream society...... you NEVER know.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2013 02:19PM by closer2fine.
I think part of the trick is to only appear to mainstream, while keeping thing status quo--especially among dedicated core members.
As closer2fine points out maintaining this distinction between the outsider and insider messaging is increasingly difficult. Insiders will pick up on the outside directed messaging, and get confused or even angry. Outsiders will pick up on insider directed messages and think Mormonism is still weird.
What real substantive mainstreaming has actually taken place? Do women have the priesthood? Will you not be dragged out for voting no on sustaining your leaders? Have the finances become more transparent? Did a General Authority recently say its ok to accept human biological evolution? Is there an openly gay general authority that I'm unaware of? Have leaders even said it's ok if you don't believe in the BOM and BOA as literal history?
Edited to add: Sorry for the flippant answer. You are right, nothing really changes, just the messaging.
The goal is still the same, we are all here to build up the Kingdom of God here on Earth. Because He isn't capable of doing that Himself. It's our task so get to it!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2013 03:21PM by iflewover.
The core belifs of the mormon church are too different for any Christian religion to think that they are becoming more like them. Sure there have been a few changes in policy that they think might help them to become more acceptable as a serious religion, but they will never actually succeed to enter the "mainstream" of Christianity without making some major changes in the actual doctrines.
The requirements for the flock have not changed at all. It's just subterfuge so people can digest it better. Doctrine is not relevant to the religion only that you do what they require and pay the 10 percent. That's it. Doctrine is fluffy fluff. Just keep with their manuals and quit with digging deeper. It will all work out in the hereafter.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2013 03:09PM by snuckafoodberry.
They have walked a fine line between mainlining and getting more crazy for a long time. Mainling won out during the Romney thing, and gave us the "I'm a MORMON" campaign. We are seeing the backlash now with the modesty obsession and painting sleeves on angel's clothing. Next, women are pressing very publicly for more mainling.
I don't know if it's mainlining or not. I don't normally pay any attention to the church however I believe that if it is attempting to mainline its for the bottom line that keeps the church in the business that it is.... money. They want to keep the money comming in since we all know they don't preach out of the goodness of their hearts.