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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: September 06, 2013 04:21PM

"Praise to the Man" Is actually "Scotland the Brave". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GowMI4wvmU4

"If You Could Get High On Kolob" is "Johnny Barleycorn Must Die" a drinking song about making whiskey that is cleverly disguised as a song about human sacrifice and murder. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDHfrk4TrBU

Does anyone know if "I Got High On the Mountain Top" I mean "High On a Mountain Top" was stolen from another song, and what that original song might be?

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Posted by: squeebee ( )
Date: September 06, 2013 04:24PM

There's a lot of borrowed tunes. I remember in Japan we often used a couple of hymns with investigators that used folk tunes that were popular in Japan. It made it much easier to get them singing when they knew the tune already.

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: September 06, 2013 04:41PM

That reminds me. My brother was a Spanish speaking elder, one of two pairs in the entire Oklahoma City Mission back in the late 80s. Or was it the early 90s? Anyways, they have a song in the Spanish Hymnbook that uses the same tune as Jingle Bells. Whenever the APs were visiting the Spanish Branch, my brother would make sure the song got sung, and when they got to the part after where "Oh what fun it is to ride in a one horse open sleigh" in the English song, he and his companion would shout "Hey". Eventually, several congregates, realizing what they were doing, would play along.

The APs would complain to the mission president about Jingle Bells being sung, my brother would explain the hymn, leaving out the part about the "Hey" and the APs would look like idiots. He also called one AP "Your APness" to the the guys face, the other fellow never realizing that it actually sounded like "You're A Penis."

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Posted by: nomo moses ( )
Date: September 06, 2013 04:51PM

Folk tunes are reused by all churches and for such things a campfire singing, military marches, etc. Think of songs sung as adolescents using familiar tunes. I find it interesting how many times it shows up here as if the LDS church did something wrong.

Even with classical music, they often wrote new tunes based on a theme by ....

I like the fact that the current LDS hymnal, like many other christian church hymnals, has included in the index the tune name and the meter. Poetry (lyrics) with the same meter can be sung with any tune with that meter.

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Posted by: nomo moses ( )
Date: September 06, 2013 04:56PM

The tune for High On the Mountain Top is by Ebenezer Beesley. He is an LDS musician. Happens to be the great-grandfather of the bishop I had when I returned to the church a little over 20 years ago.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: September 06, 2013 05:26PM

Right. Hymns especially are re-used and recycled in different religions. Some hymns are only a tune, like "Austria," used both as a Church of England tune, now used by the LDS church in the 1985 hymn book, and by Germany as the national anthem (Das Deutschland Lied). I always swore that "If You Could Hie to Kolob" was taken from "Star of Country Down," an Irish ballad of exactly the same tune, but it turns out that it was taken from an English folk ballad of ALMOST exactly the same tune (someone here on RfM pointed that out).

Then there are the stupid ones, like the blood and gore one written to the tune of "Columbia, Gem of the Ocean," about revenge against "the sins of Nauvoo." The 1985 issue toned it down just a tad so that it didn't appear that Mormons were going to rise up and slay their neighbors just yet.

I have three LDS hymn books prior to the old 1950s version. They are interesting to go through and see what Mormons used to sing. In short, they've always sung crap. I was more than surprised to see that the book used to contain "Somewhere the Sun is Shining," which is the hymn that they used to sing in the temple endowment session during the period where they were making fun of a Protestant pastor or minister who was in league with the devil in deceiving mankind. (That Protestant minister also fell victim to the endowment gutting that happened in 1990. Many LDS converts used to cry foul over that, since many converts had grown up going to churches led by worthy pastors. They did not accept that their pastor was a stooge of Satan and part of the Great and Abominable Whore.) "Somewhere the Sun is Shining" is one of those sappy hymns about nothing:

Somewhere the sun is shining,
Somewhere the songbirds sing.
Hush then thy sad repining,
God lives and all is well!

Somewhere! Somewhere!
Beautiful Isle of So-ome-wheeeeerrrre!
Land of the true, where we live anewwwwwww,
Beautiful Isle of Soooooommme. Wheeerrrre!


Good God, that brings back memories. I'm weeping! I'm crying! Am not. Just f*cking with you. I hated the 4-5 hour temple sessions and the singing and the poor pastor who was unknowingly deceiving us all, the 5 points of fellowship (sometimes SIX points of fellowship), the knocking and dapping with the Lord at the veil, the Pay! Lay! Ale!, and all that.

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Posted by: rhgc ( )
Date: May 18, 2017 04:53PM

I think it was also used in Casey at the Bat.
"But there is no joy in Mudville, Mighty Casey has struck out!"

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Posted by: Xyandro ( )
Date: September 06, 2013 05:32PM

High on a mountain top,
A badger chased a squirrel!
The badger caught the squirrel,
And now there is no squirrel.

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Posted by: Timothy ( )
Date: September 06, 2013 05:32PM

Unless you consider Wendy Carlos' "Beauty In The Beast" which was an experiment in alternate tuning.

Its all the same stuff just phrased differently.

Here's a cult hymn I wrote which is based on the life of Horn-Dog Joe to the tune of Jimi's "Red House"

http://youtu.be/IXOyKmH2_NI

Very tasteful, but they haven't included it as yet. Can't imagine why.

Timothy



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2013 05:40PM by Timothy.

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Posted by: HangarXVIII ( )
Date: September 06, 2013 05:37PM

"Rock of Ages" (#111) was ripped off from Def Leppard
;o)

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Posted by: Timothy ( )
Date: September 06, 2013 05:39PM


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Posted by: NeverMoinNY ( )
Date: September 06, 2013 05:47PM

Our own national anthem is a ripoff...The Star Spangled Banner was set to the popular tune Anacreon in Heaven. MANY "new" songs were just set to old tunes.

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Posted by: Lostmypassword ( )
Date: September 06, 2013 05:58PM

"Sympathy for the Devil" (Rolling Stones) could be adapted.

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Posted by: Xanax (not logged in) ( )
Date: September 09, 2013 10:05PM

Haha the "Scotland the brave" song reminded me of Dr. MacDoo - Under the Kilt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGAJfThCQ1c

Anyone seen that before?

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Posted by: Xanax (not logged in) ( )
Date: September 10, 2013 02:12AM

Do you think this one comes from "Scotland the Brave", too?

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Posted by: paskiainen ( )
Date: September 10, 2013 10:18AM

"Be Still My Soul" has the melody of a part of a big symphonic piece called "Finlandia", composed by the Finnish composer Jean Sibelius. While it's not officially the national anthem of Finland, many Finns would rather have it as such and it's a beautiful and an important piece of music.

On my mission, it always felt weird singing the Christian version with American companions, since to me, the original piece was something sacred, something that represents the sacrifices made by all of those who fought for my country in World War II. Fortunately, we didn't sing it often. Back then, I was just as religious about my country as I was about my religion :)

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Posted by: Benvolio ( )
Date: September 10, 2013 11:40AM

I lived for six months in Hameenlinna, Sibelius' birthplace.

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Posted by: Cokeisoknowdrinker ( )
Date: September 10, 2013 10:35AM

my contribution from last year..

The City Creek Song

can't help but repost
I posted this last summer...seems fitting


The City Creek Song

Sing to When upon life's Billows...


When upon life's billows and you need to shop
When you are discouraged at the parking lots
Come to CITY CREEEEK,..... each and everyone
And it will surprise you what God's corp-or-ation's done

C....ount your mone...y, hundreds...fives and ones
C....ount your credit cards and see what sales are on
Ignore the home.......less outside the temple walls
Count how endless tithing had.... no effect at all.


Are you ever burdened with the lines at Gap
Do your bags seem heavy as you shop at Mr. Mac
C......ount your money... and GAZE up in the sky
Ask yourself why Condo prices... are so high.

When you shop at City Creek with diamonds and the gold
Think that Christ has promised you His wealth un....told
C-o-u-n-t your many blessings, with Credit on your side
No reward in heaven,... just this palace in the sky

So amid the conflict at the check out stands
Do not be discouraged at five billion spent
C...ount your many blessings at the tithing you sent in
Question not the leaders that would be co-mitt-ing sin

C.....ount your money, hundreds, fives and ones
C....ount your money and scorn-those that cannot come
C....ount the tithing... sent in by me and you
Count the money and ignore Mormon8 verse32

Are you ever burdened with a load of debt?
Does the cross seem heavy when you're tithed to death
Count your many blessings as your house is reposessed
And keep ever faithful in the state of most depressed.


So, amid the conflict whether great or small,
Do not be disheartened, God is owner of the mall;
Count... your many blessings, angels will attend,
Help and comfort give you till your shopping ends

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Posted by: fossilman ( )
Date: September 10, 2013 10:43AM

The tune to "My Country 'Tis of Thee', found in the LDS hymnal, is hauntingly similar to one they sing in England.

:)

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: September 10, 2013 11:01AM

It IS the one they sing in England (rather, throughout the UK) except that the one in the UK carries The True Words, "God Save the Queen." Or King. It's all good.

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Posted by: tig ( )
Date: September 10, 2013 11:51AM

This needs a "like" button!

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: September 10, 2013 11:50AM

Look in any hymnal and you should see the "words by" and "tune by" or "traditional melody" and they are quite often 100 years apart...

Full disclosure is good.

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: September 10, 2013 03:35PM

They need to do that for the Book of Mormon.

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Posted by: Aggiebull ( )
Date: May 15, 2017 10:29PM

Yeah ... Scotland the Brave played by bagpipe has always aroused my inner spirit, but to hear one of my wife's piano students learning it to play in church as a Mormon hymn is revolting ... no respect for heritage and innovation ... just rip off whatever seems convenient.

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Posted by: op47 ( )
Date: May 18, 2017 03:51PM

Speaking as an Englishman, I would rather sing Scotland the Brave rather than Praise to the man.

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Posted by: Shummy ( )
Date: May 15, 2017 11:59PM

I always loved the one about Gladly, the Cross-eyed Bear.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 18, 2017 02:32PM

I had not heard that one before. Thanks for sharing his beary heartfelt tale.

A priest passed him by. A Levite passed him by. It was the Good Samaritan who paused, stopped and gave Gladly a new lease on life.

https://vimeo.com/68323610

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: May 16, 2017 06:26AM

All hymnals of all Christian religions (them that sing, anyway) are full of re-used melodies and different words. I don't see anything wrong with Mormons doing the same. I have a problem when they see their particular hymns pronounced as the only ones that can be sung at any particular moment, now disallowing any other sacred music. That trend is new, having come about in the past 20 years or so.

(I have more of a problem with the LDS hymns being translated into different languages by unskilled people, when they could just use that country's version of the same hymn. For example, the Silent Night in the Italian hymnbook is really translated poorly, and is an embarrassment to sing. Yet Italian Protestants have a long history of singing Silent Night with the right words, written long ago. When I challenged this, I got the answer that the Italian hymns were required to be translated from the "inspired" English Mormon versions, and Italian "saints" weren't allowed to use that of any Protestants. Not only is that a stupid concept, since most of the English LDS hymns themselves come from random Protestant hymnals, but the hymn in question had obviously NOT been translated from the LDS English version, because it was in no wise the same hymn.)

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Posted by: valkyriequeen ( )
Date: May 17, 2017 12:49PM

There is a hymn that uses the tune of Germany's national anthem. I can't remember which hymn it is, but I've always like the music of their anthem. Not crazy about the title of the anthem, which translated into English, if I'm not mistaken, says: "Germany Over All."

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Posted by: East Coast Exmo ( )
Date: May 18, 2017 04:10PM


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Posted by: Former TBM ( )
Date: May 17, 2017 02:38PM

Go Tell Aunt Rhody! I'm not sure if the folksong copied the hymn or visa versa, but I have a hard time singing the song in the hymnbook without thinking about poor Aunt Rhody and her dead gray goose.

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Posted by: Former TBM ( )
Date: May 17, 2017 02:55PM


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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: May 17, 2017 03:09PM

The first LDS hymn book was hymn tunes, by name. No music. Just lyrics. They did not print the actual music in the hymnal.

Several hymn tunes and gospel songs (those have a chorus) can still fit several different lyrics.

E.O. Excell, for instance, wrote 2000 Christian hymns that were used by many different churches, including LDS, including hundreds of others writers. Several are in the LDS hymnals. (Count Your Many Blessings, is one by E.O.Excell).

Some of the hymn tunes or gospel songs have changes in the lyrics to fit the LDS doctrines.

The LDS Church used music that was known at the time, both tunes and lyrics.

It was about using common well known tunes as they were sung in homes, pubs, etc. and were easy to sing, including well known tunes from classical music.

The LDS hymnals also include several pieces written by members over the years.

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Posted by: robinsaint ( )
Date: May 17, 2017 03:24PM

lift up your skirt
pull down your pants
rejoice again I say rejoice
(sorry, no offense, just used to like this version)

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Posted by: Visitors Welcome ( )
Date: May 17, 2017 04:11PM

If you think only mormons, or even christians, do this, think again. There's a fairly agressive muslim hymn in Arabic which has become very popular over the past ten years using the melody of Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah". Lots of different people have written their own lyrics to the tune, and those are usually not very kind towards you infidels.

Picture this: muzzie fundies using the composition of a jewish atheist to proclaim their own superiority. This is rich.

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Posted by: quatermass2 ( )
Date: May 18, 2017 12:31AM

"... when upon life's billows you are tempest-tossed..."

But what do you do if you don't actually know someone called Tempest? :-)

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: May 18, 2017 06:47AM

A lot of hymns are public domain, and various denominations have used them, putting their own lyrics en toto, or taking others and tweaking them a bit so the words are consistent with their doctrine. A very common practice. This is facilitated in that much hymn music employs similar meter and harmonic structure.

"Be Still My Heart," with melody from Sebelius' "Finlandia," is found in many, many hymnals, A number of lyrics, among them "Glorious Things of Thee Are Spoken" are set to the second movement of Hayden's String Quartet #76, Opus 62, #3 including the Austrian national anthem, and the Nazis' (Deutschland Uber Alles):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBmCcSz6HWw

It's often stated that Hayden should have saved this theme for a full orchestra, and not a quartet--it's just "too big," as if Pasternak had tried to put "Dr. Zhivago" into a short story.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 18, 2017 02:17PM

Some of the most beloved LDS hymns were from melodies belonging to other standard gospel songs.

One that comes to mind is "Come, come ye Saints." It was set to music of a popular English folk song. It's a LDS gospel standard still.

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Posted by: Cornflakereject ( )
Date: May 18, 2017 07:53PM

Whos on the lords side who is "Life on the Ocean Wave."

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