I hope this is the most appropriate place to post this, because I am seeking help.

I'm a nineteen year old girl that has fallen victim to the charms of missionaries. They're sweet. They listen. They gave up so much for people like me, so of course I fell hard.
They- the people- make me so happy. When I told them this, they told me that this was the Holy Spirit, so I wanted to believe because I feel like something is missing in my life (but what 19 year old doesn't?)
My Baptism date is set for next weekend, and everything is in order. The people in and out of the church are happy for me, but after reading this site, I am so scared to do it. I am a stubborn person and never sacrifice my beliefs for anyone, and I'm so scared that this church will make me lose my sense of self and damage the love I have for God. I am first and foremost an intellectual, and I don't want to be around people that expect me to throw that out of the window for "faith". God gave us frontal lobes for a reason.

I need encouragement, words of advice, to once and for all tell the lovely missionaries that I cannot be baptized. Admittedly, I have led them on because I just wanted to be around such lovely people week after week. We've already set everything up for the baptism, and I just feel awful to call it quits on them when the date is just days away. I wish you all could be there beside me so that I could have the strength to tell them exactly what is on my mind.

Anything would be helpful! I know that you're all great people, and I definitely need someone to help me without trying to influence me.

The Mormon church will slowly, but certainly, rob you of your own identity, and force you to compromise you intellectual integrety.

As you identify yourself as an intellectual you should know that one of the Apostles of the church, and next in line to be "prophet", Boyd K. Packer has listed the three greatest enemies to the church as (and I don't remember his exact order)
1. "So-called" intellectuals.
2. Feminists
3. Gays

No one can force you to be baptized -- no matter what plans and preparations have been made and no matter who is thrilled and excited about it.

YOU are your most important priority. Do not allow missionaries (and they can be sweet!), family, friends or anyone else to persuade you, guilt you or otherwise entice you to take such a huge step if you have doubts.

The church will chew you up and spit you out and only worry if they aren't getting your 10% tithing contributions. It will expect you to give up your entire Sunday and hours during the week until the next Sunday when it starts all over again. You will be asked to teach, to serve, to clean the damn toilets for heaven's sake!! They will be wonderful and friendly and loving to you for a short time and then it will be all about conforming and submitting. And no, they will NOT like it if you use those frontal lobes that God gave you.

Others here will tell you this and more.

So again -- Trust your instincts and stand your ground.

As a former missionary, I can totally re-create your 'conversion' story in my mind....I lived it many times. As seductive as the good manners, deep discussions, and sincere testimonies seem, you need to remember three simple words:

It's

Not

True

And that can be demonstrated by using your own simple research skills, linear reasoning, and common sense. If you spend an hour on exmormon.org, you will know more about the history of the religion than the missionaries who are teaching you.

And you don't need to pray about it. What an insult to God to pray about something that is so obviously false. "Dear God, I am praying to get confirmation that Joseph Smith was your prophet, even though I know he married multiple women, lied to his wife about it, started an illegal bank and bilked thousands of people out of their live savings,..." You get the idea.

Of the 5 girls I baptized whom were similar to you, none stayed in the church for longer than a year. They all left after various degrees of heartache and grief.

Don't do it!

The people are very friendly and they are quick to touch your shoulder, and to shake your hand aren't they?

They are very excited for you to be joining the church, and they are very welcoming and make you feel loved and wanted.

This week when you go to church, ask in the hallway among a few people what Brigham Young meant when he said this:

“Now take a person in this congregation who has knowledge with regard to being saved... and suppose that he has committed a sin that he knows will deprive him of that exaltation which he desires, and that he cannot attain to it without the shedding of blood, and also knows that by having his blood shed he will atone for that sin and may be saved and exalted with the God, is there a man or woman in this house but what would say, ‘shed my blood that I may be saved and exalted with the Gods?’”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 4, pp. 219-220

OR THIS BY JOSEPH FEILDING SMITH----

“Joseph Smith taught that there were certain sins so grievous that man may commit, that they will place the transgressors beyond the power of the atonement of Christ. If these offenses are committed, then the blood of Christ will not cleanse them from their sins even though they repent. Therefore their only hope is to have their blood shed to atone, as far as possible, in their behalf. This is scriptural doctrine, and is taught in all the standard works of the Church.”

- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 1, pp. 135-136, 1954
-------------------------


Ask if it is true that Bishops, Stake Presidents and one President of the Seventy were among the killers at Mountain Meadows Massacre.

And, ask if it was Gods will that the Fancher party be killed.

...............

On the following week, make a note on how welcoming they still act.

Do they touch your shoulder?
Do they linger to talk with you, and ask sweetly how you are?

Or do you find yourself treated coldly?

Elders, never love your wives one hair's breadth further than they adorn the Gospel, never love them so but that you can leave them at a moment's warning without shedding a tear. Should you love a child any more than this? No. Here are Apostles and Prophets who are destined to be exalted with the Gods, to become rulers in the kingdom of our Father, to become equal with the Father and the Son, and will you let your affections be unduly placed on anything this side that kingdom and glory? If you do, you disgrace your calling and Priesthood. The very moment that persons in this Church suffer their affections to be immoderately placed upon an object this side the celestial kingdom, they disgrace their profession and calling. When you love your wives and children, are fond of your horses, your carriages, your fine houses, your goods and chattels, or anything of an earthly nature, before your affections become too strong, wait until you and your family are sealed up unto eternal lives, and you know they are yours from that time henceforth and for ever.

I will now ask the sisters, do you believe that you are worthy of any greater love than you bestow upon your children? Do you believe that you should be beloved by your husbands and parents any further than you acknowledge and practise the principle of eternal lives? Every person who understands this principle would answer in a moment, "Let no being's affections be placed upon me any further than mine are on eternal principles-principles that are calculated to endure and exalt me, and bring me up to be an heir of God and a joint heir with Jesus Christ." This is what every person who has a correct understanding would say.

Owing to the weaknesses of human nature you often see a mother mourn upon the death of her child, the tears of bitterness are found upon her cheeks, her pillow is wet with the dews of sorrow, anguish, and mourning for her child, and she exclaims, "O that my infant were restored to me," and weeps day and night. To me such conduct is unwise, for until that child returned to its Father, was it worthy of your fullest love? No, for it was imperfect, but now it is secure in the bosom of the Father, to dwell there to all eternity; now it is in a condition where it is worthy of your perfect love, and your anxiety and effort should be that you may enter at the same gate to immortality.

When the wife secures to herself a glorious resurrection, she is worthy of the full measure of the love of the faithful husband, but never before. And when a man has passed through the vail, and secured to himself an eternal exaltation, he is then worthy of the love of his wife and children, and not until then, unless he has received the promise of and is sealed up unto eternal lives. Then he may be an object fully worthy of their affections and love on the earth, and not before.

Journal of Discourses Vol.3:360
Brigham Young

I think she means that they give 2 years of their life and live like they do, etc.

But, OP, they don't do it for you. They do it because it is expected of them. They will not be worthy men if they don't wear the mark of "RM". (Returned Missionary.) They will not be worthy to marry the girls around them, and very few will have them anyway. They will forever carry the stigma of NOT going on a mission.

Does that sound like they are doing it for you? They are not. They are doing it for the approval of their friends and family, for the lovely ladies they believe will be waiting for them upon return, and for the prestige that those two letters, RM, will bring to them.

Instead of being welcomed, you will be summoned. Instead of a greeting, you will get a calling. Instead of receiving invitations, you will be sent to meetings. Instead of being talked to, you will be interviewed. Instead of getting cookies, you will be given tithing slips.

I like the way you stated that and all of it is true. People need to see it for what it is going to be in the future and not just as one is being love-bombed.

Do you believe in evolution? Mormons do not. One Mormon apostle called it a deadly sin. In fact the creation story in the Bible is the centerpiece of the Mormon temple ceremony.

Do you believe sexual orientation is a choice? Mormons do.

Do you believe women have the right to choose? Mormons do not.

Do you believe that a woman's place is in the home? Mormons do.

Do you want to spend the eternities giving birth to billions of spirit babies? Mormon women do.

Do you think it is OK for your husband to have multiple wives for eternity? Mormons do.

Do you think God cursed wicked people with dark skin? Mormons do.

Do you believe that all other religions besides Mormonism are an abomination to God? Mormons do.

Do you agree with the idea that once the prophet has spoken the thinking is done? Mormons do.


Just say No! They are all so "wonderful" because you are showing interest in what they believe. That veneer quickly disappears if you reject or challenge their belief system.

Before you get baptized read:

"An Insiders View of Mormon Origins" by Grant Palmer
http://www.amazon.com/Insiders-View-Mormon-Origins/dp/1560851570/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1286425772&sr=8-1

"In Sacred Loneliness" by Todd Compton
http://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Loneliness-Plural-Wives-Joseph/dp/156085085X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1286425877&sr=1-1

"No Man Knows My History" by Fawn Brodie
http://www.amazon.com/No-Man-Knows-My-History/dp/0679730540/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1286425925&sr=1-1

Do think your non-mormon parents, friends and relatives should be unable to attend your wedding? Mormons do.

Do you think it is OK to give 10-20% of your income to an organization that does not make any attempt to disclose how they spend that money? Mormons do.

Do you think it is OK for a church to spend hundreds of millions on ornate expensive temples while giving relatively little to humanitarian causes? Mormons do.

Do you think it is OK for members to do all the work in the church, including janitorial work, for free while the top leadership pulls down six figure salaries? Mormons do.

And it's all true, too! Good job!

they will not expect you to give everything up on 'faith'...no, no, no, mormoms do not have faith, they 'know'. They know without a shadow of a doubt:
- that Joseph Smith was a prophet
-that the book of mormom is true and is the word of god
-the Monson (or Gordon b. Hinkley, or whatever flavour prophet of the day) is the representative of the lord on these latter days
-that this is the only true church

There you have it, that is all they 'know', and they know it, they know it, because a little voice and a warm feeling told them so, and if you pray hard enough, ask hard enough, you will know it too, and no contrary evidence will ever be proof that this is not true.

If you do get baptized, for as long as you are a member, that is all you will ever know, nothing more.

So if you want to be lead from now on and have all your decisions made for you from a 'feeling' or a man they call a prophet, then you should go ahead. But I have a feeling, you understand the difference between having a 'warm fuzzy in your heart' because you are glad for the company and have nice people around you, and a holy ghost witnessing truth to you.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. We have all made bad decisions, and got a great little feeling (at the time). So using feelings as a measure of truth may not be the greatest idea, and feelings change.

A feeling is not a measure of truth, it is just a feeling. You are much better off to rely on facts. The mormom church will never expect faith from you. That requires you to search and research and to seek, then to overcome your remaining doubts through faith. No, they will require you to KNOW, and the only way to know something for sure in mormonism is to receive a 'witness from the holy ghost', not by endeavour to search the truth.

Would you marry someone if you where not sure? Then don't marry this church.

Take care and go with your head on this one. They have not filled the big tub yet, so backing out will not put them out so much.

Yes, I have learned so much about the Mormon church, what they tell me and what they don't tell me. They think I'm so intelligent, but really, I'm just using a few simple search tools.
I appreciate everything that you have posted, and it is definitely giving me more strength to follow through with this decision. There have been a few things that the people of the local church that kind of scared me, and I'm sure you've all heard similar things before. I will keep these things in mind when I tell them tomorrow what I really want.

Oh, and a sidenote that somewhat goes along with this.
I just love one of the missionaries and he truly is a great person and has a curious mind (odd for a Mormon, I know). One conversation particularly disturbed me. I asked him what he wanted to do with his life and he said, "I would love to go to UCLA to study film, but I will probably end up going to a school close to home and study business."
I told him that he should follow where his passion leads because that's where he will be happiest and make the most difference, and for some reason, it looked like it pained him.
It wasn't until tonight that I heard about the "Patriarchal Blessings". Don't they basically tell you what your life will be like, similar to going to a palm reader?
So, it dawned on me, perhaps his blessing tells him that he will be in business? Perhaps people in the church are telling him to do something else?
I don't want to change him because that would be rather hypocritical of me, but I feel that is it impertinent that he follows his heart's desires, not something written on a piece a paper from someone that barely knew him. There are moments when I can tell that he feels chained, but he comes from a strong Mormon family and is probably often told to always have faith.
Is there ANYTHING that I can do to help him find himself? Or should I leave it alone?

Then ask him if he knows that Richard is an exmormon.

It sounds like there is probably a lot of family pressure on him to go into business. Is his father in business? Mormons generally view Hollywood as evil. Unless he is making movies for the church many conservative members would probably view that career path as frivolous, worldly and likely to lead to a sinful life.

How many General Authorities are businessmen, bankers, lawyers, CEOs, etc.? Virtually all of them. Gone are the days when Mormon leadership was made up of pedagogues and other nice people.

When I was 19 I also had a baptism date planned - I just knew in my heart that it wasn't right. The day of the baptism I went to a friends house and hung around so they couldn't bother me at home about not showing up. After that day I just told them I wasn't interested - and kept repeating it!


So get away - it doesn't have to be far, but someplace they won't know where you are. Turn off your phone and just enjoy your day! Then keep repeating that you are not interested!

Let us know how it goes.

Carrie

Don't be surprised if you are dropped from the teaching pool after you tell them you are not going to be baptized. At least, I hope you're planning to withdraw your consent to baptism.

...regarding its history, its doctrines, and its practices?

If a church were not honest about these things, would you prefer to discover this BEFORE or AFTER you were baptized?!

I would never have joined the church had I known any ONE of the following:

1) that lies and deception prevail.
2) that sexual abuse is rampant.
3) that pedophiles are protected while victims are blamed.
4) how much bigotry there is toward women, blacks and gays (Sonia Johnson’s “Housewife to Heretic;” the Evergreen program at BYU)
and how much money is secretly spent to keep these groups powerless.
5) that polygamy is still doctrine, is practiced in the afterlife, and is still believed in as much as ever, including that “God COMMANDS” humans to practice it in order to be exalted in the afterlife.
6) that the Mormon church is a cult--a “bait-and switch” cult--and a pyramid scheme.
7) that it is ALL ABOUT MONEY, squeezing every possible penny out of its members.
8) that it uses shame and guilt to manipulate and control members in highly invasive ways.
9) that while claiming to be a "family" church, it in fact does all it can to rip families apart, since loyalty to the Mormon Church outweighs every family consideration.

You have heard the expression, “Marry in haste, repent at leisure”? Consider this variation: “Be baptized in haste, repent at leisure.”

Take your time! Learn about the church for a few months from a wide variety of sources, and you will be in a much better position to evaluate it.

Good luck!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2010 12:59AM by WiserWomanNow.

They are salesmen they are "paid" (actually, they're the ones paying) to be nice.Ask any convert about the letdown after baptism. Suddenly the missionaries are gone, and you're an outsider that many will not want to talk to you anymore once you've been snagged. If you've carried over any habits from a previous religion--the way you pray, the edition of the Bible you were brought up with, and virtually any other quirk of another religion--they will find it troublesome, even disturbing. If you ever had fun in your previous religion, it will all skid to a halt in this one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2010 01:00AM by cludgie.

Maybe someone could be there for you. Where do you live? You obviously DON'T want to be a Mormon.... sure meeting people who are nice is fun. BUT they don't tell you all the rules of Mormonism until AFTER you get baptised. Do not do this. If you go thru with it you have joined a cult.

You seem like you enjoy using your brain. Anything said by an exmormon on this site is to be taken seriously. These people tell it like it WAS....never worry about hurting others feelings. Worry about hurting YOU for the rest of your life. They will move on to the next sucker once you are baptised. You need to exit this process pronto....like tomorrow....exit by phoning someone or writing a note and putting it on your door. Do something and do it tomorrow.

The Missionaries are TRAINED (at the "Mission Training Center" in Provo Utah, for starters) in how to create personal rapport and then use this to get you to want to do what they say.

Missionary instructions say stuff like "lean forward, look into the investigator's eyes..." etc. Things that are calculated to create a relation of trust. In fact, "creating a relation of trust" is one of the specific things they are taught.

You are just a person trying to make sense of the universe. They are trained to take advantage of that.

DON'T DO IT!

This young man probably knows that he should marry in the next few years so living close to home and pursuing a business degree maybe be more economical and financially sound for the future wife and loads of kiddos he's supposed to support. Kinda makes you feel sorry for the poor guy.

RUN!

My thoughts: you can ALWAYS get baptized. It's harder to get unbaptized.

Cancel the baptism. give yourself a long time going to the church, learning more about it, seeing if it is the fit you think it is.

If you get baptized, you will be going anyway.

Better yet, cancel the baptism and give yourself some time away from the church and think long and hard about it.

Once you buy it, it is going to be a real bear to get a refund.

Your baptism will affect YOU more than it will any of them. It is your decision to make.

Kristina Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hope this is the most appropriate place to post
> this, because I am seeking help.
>
> I'm a nineteen year old girl that has fallen
> victim to the charms of missionaries. They're
> sweet. They listen. They gave up so much for
> people like me, so of course I fell hard.

They are trying to sell you on the church. That's their REASON for leaving home and going on a mission. It's easy to be sweet when you are trying to impress someone. They probably ARE nice people, but I'm kind of wondering why you seem so worried about disappointing them in some way. It's YOUR life, not theirs. You seem concerned about losing the relationship with LDS people, which implies that there has been some kind of pressure for you to get baptized or that you sense the relationship is conditional upon you becoming a Mormon. Why can't you just be friends with these people outside the church?

I'll tell you why, because I have no illusions about this: Mormon relationship are dominated by the religion. When you join the church, you have instant friends and community, and that can be pretty nice. But the relationships are pretty shallow. Members become friends as they work together in callings and attend activities. Friendships often form or fade according to ward boundaries and callings. And if you leave the church, relationships fade VERY fast. Mormons are often too busy to have a social life outside of the planned meetings and ward activities. Many lack the time or the social skills to nurture friendships outside of those planned activites, because they never have HAD to develop those skills.

> They- the people- make me so happy. When I told
> them this, they told me that this was the Holy
> Spirit, so I wanted to believe because I feel like
> something is missing in my life (but what 19 year
> old doesn't?)

How the HECK can they interpret YOUR feelings for you. If you cried, they would have said THAT was the Holy Spirit, too. But there is ZERO evidence that the freaking Holy Spirit even exists. And if it bears witness to a church that isn't even TRUE, then obviously it's not a reliable gauge of truth.

> My Baptism date is set for next weekend, and
> everything is in order. The people in and out of
> the church are happy for me, but after reading
> this site, I am so scared to do it. I am a
> stubborn person and never sacrifice my beliefs for
> anyone, and I'm so scared that this church will
> make me lose my sense of self and damage the love
> I have for God. I am first and foremost an
> intellectual, and I don't want to be around people
> that expect me to throw that out of the window for
> "faith". God gave us frontal lobes for a reason.
>
So what if the date is set. This should be about what YOU want, not what THEY want. If they give you a hard time, say "Would you want me to go ahead with this when I'm not even SURE?" That will give you a good idea of whether they REALLY care about you or if they are just trying to close the deal. I'll bet you $1000 that they will say those feelings are SATAN tempting you (again, reading your feelings and assigning them to an invisible being), and that you have to ignore him and go ahead with the baptism.

> I need encouragement, words of advice, to once and
> for all tell the lovely missionaries that I cannot
> be baptized. Admittedly, I have led them on
> because I just wanted to be around such lovely
> people week after week. We've already set
> everything up for the baptism, and I just feel
> awful to call it quits on them when the date is
> just days away. I wish you all could be there
> beside me so that I could have the strength to
> tell them exactly what is on my mind.
>

It's not that hard to set up a baptism. And even easier to cancel one. Chances are, there are some little 8 year olds getting baptised the same day and they can just go ahead with it.

> Anything would be helpful! I know that you're all
> great people, and I definitely need someone to
> help me without trying to influence me.

Honestly, the less you explain to them, the better (otherwise, you invite a critique of your reasons, feelings, worthiness, faith, effort). Something like a final-sounding . . . "I've thought long and hard about this, and it just FEELS wrong. You guys are wonderful and I love the ward, but I am not going to join the LDS church."

Please don't join the church (or do anything ELSE in your life that feels wrong) just to make other people happy or to secure conditional relationships. Your life/your choice.

it was the "Sister Missionaries" who got me, one had a crush on me, and neither would leave me alone. That and my Mormon Girl Friend was pushing me to join as well. I talked myself into believing and ignored all of the obvious BS about LDS Inc. and focused on the "positives". Like one poster above said, once I joined it was completely different story, they even told me to stay away from certain people. It is very cult like. And once they got you, forget it. They will track you down where ever you go and send people to "visit" you even if you are not active or attending their Church. Don't do it. I would tell them that you've decided against it and don't wish to speak with them further about, and wish them all the best. Don't let them press you, and especially don't tell them you've been hanging out with "exmo's" you'll never hear the end of it!

It's a false church, with no historical merit to support it's extraordinary claims.

I'm 25 now, but I converted due to falling hard for the mishies, too...but I was 17. RUN THE OTHER DIRECTION! I stayed in the cult for 6 years. I hope you can find strength to not join, but maybe since you have a crush on the guy, like I did, nothing will stop you.

I was in a similar situation. I joined the church at 15. The missionaries were extremely kind (and genuinely so) as were the members. However, I felt extremely rushed by them. My baptismal date was set one month after my first encounter with the missionaries. I had plenty of doubts, but shelved them because I liked the culture and the missionary discussions seemed to make so much sense.

In retrospect, I wished that I had told them that I needed more time to study things out and see if this was right for me. There was so much about the Mormon church that I was not being told, and had I known these things (church history, temple practices, authoritarianism in the church, etc) I would have never joined.

Joining the Mormon church is a life altering decision, and you deserve to take all the time that you need to decide if this decision is right for you. Please, cancel your baptism date and take the time that you need. The social pressure being put on you makes this very difficult, but in the long run you need to do right by yourself, not by the Mormon church nor its members.

If you were going to join any other church you would have to go through a period of learning before you could be baptized. Even the RLDS expect the process to take several weeks of teaching and learning and even attendance before being able to be baptized. The Bickertonites and the Hedrikites are the same- they teach the Book of Mormon too, but you can't join until you are ready. If you are Catholic, it could take a year.

I'd ask the missionaries why they need you to be baptized so quickly, or why you are asked to commit on the second visit.

With a commitment pattern as big as the LDSchurch asks of its members, one would think that they would want to make sure you know what you are doing... but instead, they rush you in before you have a chance to really find out.

Are they afraid people will chicken out when they have had a chance to think?

This was my experience in joining a Lutheran church after we left Mormonism. We attended quite regularly for about 7 months, going to both church services and activies, before even being *approached* by the Pastor about taking classes for new members. Even then, there was no pressure to take them.

The classes lasted another 3 months and allowed for very honest discussion about real issues. Nothing was kept under the table. We discussed Luther's more controversial writings and why they were wrong and how they had been repudiated by the church.

We were finally baptized after 11 months of attending and there was never any pressure to be baptized. I contrast this with my LDS experience, where I had a baptismal date on my second visit with the missionaries and was in the water one month later, having only attended church twice.

Kristina,

I would just like to share with you my story, I'll try to make it short.

I'm 41 years old now, but I too was baptized when I was 18 years old. As so many others, I fell victim to the missionaries. My story begins when I met a Mormon man, who lied to me about his age, his marital status, and woulnd't let me call him on the phone, he always had to call me. I became very suspicious after a month or so, so I looked his name up in the phone book so I could call him. When I called, his wife answered. I was so upset at this point, and I told this guy I wanted to meet his wife and apologize, which I did. Long story short, his wife told me to stay with him, that he loved me and they were only together for the sake of there children. I ended up staying with this man for 3 of the WORST years of my life. He was definately a pedophile and a SICK human being.

After a year of being with this man, he talked me into getting the missionary discussions. I did, and the missionary that taught me was so cute. I had the biggest crush on him, and of course I wanted to get away from this man that was abusing me emotionally and physically, so I went through with my baptism.

The night before I was to be baptized, the "cute" missionary called me up and asked me to sit in the hot tub with him and his companion. Of course I said yes! I thought he was adorable, so I met them at there appartment where they were living, and we had a great time. The day of my baptism, as the missionary pulled me up out of the water, he whispered to me "I love you". I was so confused at this point. Here I was with a mormon man, who is married, whose wife says it's okay, and the missionary who baptised me sits with me in the hot tub, the day before my baptism, and tells me at my baptism he loves me when he pulls me up out of the water... I knew something was wrong, and I felt terrible for what was happening to me.

A week after my baptism, I went to the bishop of the man I was dating, and told him everything that was happening to me, and that I was so upset over it. You know what he told me? He said I was the bad one and I was destroying there marriage. I told him about the missionary who asked me to sit in the hot tub with him, and who also told me he loved me when he pulled me up from the water, and the Bishop didn't believe a word I was saying. He told me to stay away from that family. I was devistaed at this point. He made it sound like this man I was dating and the missionary were the victims in all this.

After seeing the Bishop, I never went a day to chruch meetings after that! So Kristina, I would have to say to you, DON'T DO IT! Run as fast as you can away from this church.

Best wishes...

When they come to pick you up, answer the door buck nekkid and say "I'm ready!". Problem fixed.

Missionaries don't stay in one place for their entire 2 years. They rotate around every 6 weeks or so. In a few months, none of the new mishies will even know who you are. And the ones you had a crush on will be looong gone . . . and eventually back home and looking for their BIC (Born in the Covenant) trophy wife.

You're just a number to them.

Shannon ;o)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2010 10:30AM by shannon.

I am embarrassed that the only people I could get interested in the church on my mission were young women near my age. It was easy and we baptized quite a few. None are still active but are still counted as active members.
I am ashamed... that was many years ago. The program has not changed.I never told anyone of the church's dark history because I never knew it myself until many years later.
Take control now and trust your gut.

You say, "the people- make me so happy. When I told them this, they told me that this was the Holy Spirit, so I wanted to believe". Instead of investigating why you may have felt happy around these people, you accepted their explanation of what it was - somethng that made you special. IMO, this is a manipulation. Meeting new people who are invested in being inviting and making you feel accepted are not really your friends. you are like the frog and they are the cold water before the heat gets turned up.

You also say you are a young person who "has fallen victim to the charms of missionaries. They're sweet. They listen. They gave up so much for people like me,". They are taught to behave in the very ways you mention because they are told they are to be rewarded for their recruitment efforts. There is no missionary who doesn't expect to be blessed big time for their time in the mission field. Did they give up much of anything for someone like you? No! Not at all. They did what they were taught to do from before the time they were old enough to know what was being said. IMO, the missionary program has evolved to be as much a retention tool to keep young men from leaving the church than it is a recruitment tool to gain new members. In their efforts as missionaries, you experience how completely the church has robbed them of their identity. I know of a young man who chose to complete his university schooling before he decided to go on a mission. He suffered ridicule and the rejection of girls he wanted to date simply because he had postponed his mission "responsibility". Now they have convinced you that they are sacrificing just for your personal benefit. It isn't the case and it exemplifies how guilt is used to manipulate. It has been used to manipulate these missionaries to work for a HUGE corporation for free (at their personal expense as well as the expense of their parents and families), and this guilt is being translated to you take on the responsibility for the supposed sacrifice these missionaries have made for anyone they could entice into supporting the HUGE corporation with their dollars and their time given to it for free.

You sound like an intelligent person and I agree with your statement that "God gave us frontal lobes for a reason." That reason is to use those frontal lobes and to counter the emotional centers of the brain that encourage us to make quick and rash decisions. As others have said, you are not obligated to ever get baptised. You can postpone or completely cancel what has been planned with no explanation if you choose. The only obligation you have is to take care of yourself in this situation. With the questions you have, I encourage you to at least postpone the current schedule. Believe me, if you change your mind, the missionaries won't turn you away. They are congratulated on their baptism successes and they want their stats to look as good as possible when they go into interviews. You are a number to them and they want to keep their numbers up as much as possible.

This board will always be available to you for encouragement and support. It may not be quite the same as having someone there with you, but it can serve a useful purpose. Hang in there and remember that this is your life we are talking about. Take good care of your life, it is the only one you will have and you will only be young once. You do not want to be manipulated into a controlling organization that does not really care about you, but only how you can serve the overall organization.

My very best to you. I hope you find comfort and satisfaction in whatever you choose to pursue.

Canceling a Baptisim is no big deal. The buiding is already there, all they have to do is turn on the water to fill the Jesus tank. They may have to tell the squeaky voiced, pimple faced 12 year old scheduled to give a talk about "how having his sins washed away, and receiveing the Holy Ghost was the best thing ever" to save it for another day. You may be thinking that the whole process is more beautiful than that, but it is not! They sing a song, have a opening prayer, dunk you(maybe more than once if your dress floats) you go change while someone gives a boring juvenile talk, and then you sit in a chair and let 2 or 3 "jedi knights" use the power of the force to put a ghost in you, sing another song and have a closing prayer. Bam! you're Mormon! There may or may not be cookies and punch in the relief society room(kitchen), but you won't get any because the 20 kids from the Jedi's family will have used the "amen" from the closing prayer as a starters pistol, to start their Roadwarrioresque combat sprint down the hallway to the kitchen, and will inhale everything in sight. Your Mishy boyfriend will shake your hand romatically, and say "welcome to the church, Sister xxxxx." and you won't see him again. CANCEL THIS NOW! HE IS A USED CAR SALESMAN, NOT A BOYFRIEND!

Most mormon missionaries are attractive, smart, and seem supportive and open minded. Your missionary is right on target. He fell into line, went on a mission, and is sadly becomming more willing to give up his dreams and fall more and more in line with being a mormon robot type.

You can't save him and that isn't your job. He can't save you. That's YOUR job.

Joining a cult will give you instant acceptance and lots of attention for awhile. Unfortuneately, it's a quick fix that doesn't contribute to your esteem and life satisfation in the long run.

You will gradually be expected to fall into line and become drone-like, to marry a mormon, to work for the church for nothing, to contribute money and children to it and become old, die, and go to a promised, but questionabe, reward.

Listen to the warnings or not. It's up to you. But we've heard and/or lived your story hundreds of times over. Smart people who join or stay in the church for a lifetime are usually sorry and they must work long and hard at recovering from cultism. Better to just face the discomfort and say, "No thank you. I've decided I don't want to join your church. But thank you for taking the time with me. Goodbye."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2010 12:42PM by Cheryl.

Kristina Wrote:
> I need encouragement, words of advice, to once and
> for all tell the lovely missionaries that I cannot
> be baptized.

Just say, 'No, I've decided not to be baptised' and repeat as necessary.

You have the right to say 'no' without justifying to them why, so just say it; no!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2010 11:16AM by spaghetti oh.

Thank you so much, every single one of you! You all have taken the time to really help me follow through with this decision, and I appreciate it so. I'm meeting with them today, and I'm going in as confident as ever.

I know the reason why I even thought about it was because I could feel the tension with one of the missionaries, where I knew there were moments when he just wanted to go home and be finished with the bullshit. But then moments later, he will perk up about the Holy Spirit, and I think feeling bad for him just made me want to make him happy. I mean, I see the signs of someone who is curious and open to change with him. Before he left for his mission, he dated girls that weren't members. He wants to study film at UCLA, and he doesn't take everything as seriously as the other missionaries.
I just feel so bad because I know he feels more trapped in this religion then I ever could.

And I think that they are so brainwashed, that they really, truly believe that joining the church is the only way I can be happy. I found another church I really enjoy and isn't cult-ish, so I will have them help me out if I feel cornered by them.


Thank you all again, so SO much! I can't ever express how much all of your posts have helped me out.

While I quite like the idea of answering the door "buck nekkid" to fix the problem, think about this: while the misshies probably are genuine nice guys and very sincere, they are also salesman, and numbers is what they're after; if you are entering into an "everlasting and eternal covenant" what's wrong with giving it a few more weeks to research? With the advent of the interweb, that's the worst thing that could happen to thier mission to get you baptized. True, they want to go home from the mission knowing that they dunked & "saved" a bunch of investigators--just imagine how depressing it would be to spend two years and all that effort in the field and never make a sale.
Sure, the LDS church is full of great folks with a real moral compass and quality values, but when you discover that it's all built on made-up stuff, and you go beyond the "milk" to find that "meat" is just plain weird. I'm sure there are really nice moral prople who follow the Bajoran prophets, or Lord Of The Rings mythology, but it's not based on anything real. So you makes yer choice and you pays yer dough.
And if you find yourself drawn to an "interesting" or "cute" guy, I hate to say it, but that's often part of the strategy; anything to get the sale. Afterwards, they're usually "just friends" (don't ask me how I know).
Listen to the others on the board--after the love bombing there is often little left but collateral damage....

It's really no big deal. I've never counted up how many of our "golden contacts" backed out, some at the very last minute.

It's your life--do what is right for you.

where and when you go to mo-church?

This is one of the things that hardly comes up but leaves us nevermo's slack jawed.

You see, if you want to join a Methodist church, you open the yellow pages (old fashioned) look at the options and make a choice on location, times of services etc. And you keep visiting different Methodist churches till you find the one that's just right.

With the marments, where you go to church is determined by where you live. If you move, they will assign you to a different church and social life starts all over. Or they can even re-draw boundaries so that, even if you don't move, they will tell you have to go to a different church.

Bet them pesky marments didn't tell you that!

Pick up your phone book. Look under any of the following headings:
Churches: Baptist, Presbyterian, Calvary, Bible Churches, non-denominational, or Lutheran.

Give them a call and explain your situation. They won't recruit you and force you to be baptized. I promise. This is the difference between real Christianity and the Cults... its not about the organization its about Jesus.

I'm 100% positive there is a great group of women out there that would be extremely blessed if you would call and begin a friendship.

As Scooter said... Wow... was that a divine intervention? Two of us asked you to look in the phonebook for a real Christian church at the same time.

Sorry I forgot Methodist on my list.

You're already there, Kristina!

This is the Gospel according to Timothy ... Just say "Stop it" to the prophet and "Nope" to the pope!

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2010 12:20PM by Timothy.

you are not going to get many objective opinions on a board like this. There are many mormons who really like their church and don't all have the same experiences you read here. It works for them and makes them happy. It's your choice to make based on what you neeed in your life.

That's hilarious, as if the mishie boys or the local member mishies are "objective."

NOT!

You are responding to the warm fuzzies, the emotional draw of people who are trained to use that method - being nice, warm, caring, to get you to join the LDS Church. The testimony is emotionally based, not fact based.
That is not what the LDS Church is about. It's a byproduct for some, but it's not a reason to join.

Do your research and find out exactly who Joseph Smith Jr was, how he did what he did, and what they teach about everything.

You are not convinced this is what you want to do. LISTEN to those thoughts. They are telling you that you need to PAY ATTENTION and find out why you are not convinced you need to join the LDS Church.

At a minimum, tell the missionaries that you are not ready. You need to think about it more. If and when you are ready you will call them.
Be prepared for their "love bombing" - calling, coming by, checking on you. They do not let go easily. They will make it about how much Heavenly Father cares for you and not let up.
They don't want to lose a convert. They will be relentless.

Now you are going to have to draw on all of your courage and strength to stand your ground.

My impression, in reading your comments is that you don't want to join the LDS Church. Not now, not ever.

You are very young. Do what you know is best for you now, not later.