I'm not a Mormon and never have been, but within the past year I've somehow become entangled in a seemingly irremediable mess. I'm hoping to find some advice here, and I apologize if I am intruding where I shouldn't be, as I am not an ex-Mormon myself.

I have been a devout (though liberal-leaning) Catholic my entire life, and I'm content to stay that way. I have advanced degrees in Catholic theology, so I'm not the sort of vulnerable, under-catechized Catholic that I'm sure becomes easy prey for Mormon missionaries. Anyway, the problem began when I was working for the U.S. Census last summer for some extra cash. I made friends with one of my co-workers--a young woman about my age, highly intelligent, and an interesting conversationalist. For the purposes of this story, I'll call her Lucy. At first, Lucy did not tell me that she is a Mormon. We shared lunch and coffee several times throughout the summer and enjoyed conversations about many issues we both find fascinating. We talked about the challenges of being a young woman and building careers in academia--I am a beginning theology professor and Lucy is finishing her doctorate in Botany. It seemed like such an amazing friendship.

Then one day, Lucy asked me if I would go to church with her--still no mention of Mormonism. Without even asking what kind of church, I immediately said yes. Being a theologian, I enjoy and appreciate attending other people's religious services just for the experience of it. Even if she had told me that she was Mormon, I probably would have gone with her. Anyway, Lucy drove me to her church the next Sunday and I sat there with her through all three hours of it. On the way home, she kept asking me what I thought of it and I told her that it was "nice." She asked me if I felt the Holy Spirit there, and because I did not want to insult her I redirected the question and said, "Your church seems to be full of passionate people." She must have taken that as a "yes," because the next day, missionaries showed up on my doorstep. Maybe I'm too kind sometimes, but it was a hot summer day and I let them in and offered them a drink of water.

We sat down in my living room, and they told me that they had seen me with Lucy the previous day and they had talked to her about my "interest." I tried to make it clear to them that I have no interest in becoming Mormon, and that I attended church with Lucy because she is my friend. They proceeded to tell me that God had revealed to them how I was touched by the Holy Spirit during their sacrament meeting. After much argument from me, they left my home and left a Book of Mormon on my coffee table--I didn't even notice it until they were gone. In all my theological training, I had never read the Book of Mormon, so I decided to read it as a matter of academic curiosity. Within less than an hour of reading and browsing, I had located numerous problems in the book--names that would not have been used in the Americas B.C.E, animals that would not have been in the Americas, etc. While I was already knowledgeable of the serious theological differences between Catholics and Mormons, I wanted to have something to tell Lucy if she were to ask me my impressions of the Book of Mormon.

Surely enough, she asked me about it the next day. I was honest with her about my prior knowledge of Mormon theology and my impressions about reading from the Book of Mormon for the first time. She told me that I needed to read through it completely and pray to see if it is true. I declined, telling her that I believe my own faith as a Catholic is sufficient. I tried to explain to her that I do not believe truth comes completely through feelings, but through reason--and that because of reason, Catholics interpret scriptures in terms of their deeper message as opposed to literally. This was a completely foreign idea to her. She continued to ask me about it for the next several days at work, so I finally gave in and did it--not because I was expecting to find truth, but simply because I wanted to satisfy her. A couple of days later, I told her that I had read and prayed, and that the Book of Mormon does not seem to be true. She wasn't satisfied, and asked me to continue praying until I received an answer from God. The missionaries came to my door again. And again, I was too nice. I let them in and tried to reason with them about why I wasn't interested. They left, but once again managed to sneak literature onto my coffee table. Up to this point I had been patient with Lucy because I wanted to respect her commitment to her faith, but the next day at work I told her that while I still wanted to be her friend, I was not interested in receiving anymore information about Mormonism. Her response was something like this: "God revealed to Elder B. and Elder P. that you're going to see the truth soon. You're so smart and you already want to serve God--his will is going to unfold for you." No acknowledgment of my thoughts on the matter.

I began to see Lucy less and less. Our time on the Census was drawing to a close and school was about to start--I was ready to begin teaching again. I was glad to be out of this situation--or so I thought.

About a week into the fall semester, I was sitting in my office and the missionaries walked in. They must have found out from Lucy that I worked at the university. They started the conversion talks again, assuring me all the while that they were not trying to convert me against my will. I had lost my patience by this time and I told them to leave my office. Later that afternoon I was teaching a class, and one of my students raised her hand and asked me about the differences between Catholicism and Mormonism (this is at a Catholic university) because she had seen missionaries (the same ones) walking around on campus and talking to students. I answered her question, but began to feel guilty because I believe the missionaries came to campus to talk to me in the first place. Now, they were preying on poorly-catechized Catholic kids fresh out of high school. Things got worse and worse. Apparently the missionaries began telling students that they were talking to me, so students began coming to me and asking me why I was considering leaving the Catholic faith--even though I wasn't. Colleagues began to ask me questions about how I got entangled with the Mormons. The only good that came out of the situation is that for the students who came to me for a talk, I was able to explain the differences between Catholicism and Mormonism. One student said to me, "Wow, Professor Xxxxx, I'm glad I talked to you. They were telling me that as a Catholic, I belong to a false church." I'm not one to tell my students what they should believe, or to degrade anyone else's faith, but I believe students should be given the whole picture on Mormon teaching, Catholic teaching, and all other faiths for that matter.

I have not talked with Lucy again, but apparently she has used the amazing stalking skills that we learned in working the Census to track me down. I am in the process of moving to a new city to take a position at another university, and no sooner than I had bought my house there (won't even be moving in for another three weeks), I received a call from Mormon missionaries in the area. The young man on the phone said, "Your friend Lucy informed us that you have just moved to Xxxxxx. We stopped by your house and you weren't there. Is there a good time to come by for a visit?" I told them no, but I am still receiving voice mails. I'm concerned that when I do move, the missionaries are going to continue coming and bothering me at my new home. This is getting to the point of being frightening. It's amazing how I ended up in this situation: all I did was go to church with a friend, offer missionaries a glass of water, and read the holy text of a religion not my own. How did these innocently-intended actions cause me to get caught up in such a mess? How do I get rid of these people, especially if they can keep locating me? It's getting scary. Thanks for listening to my story.

 

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Welcome Catherine Mary. You are by no means "intruding." The only advice I can give is stand your ground and tell them to "beat it!" Hopefully, "deb" from this forum could help you out. Her story is much like yours.

I'm glad you posted here - there are a lot of people who can help you. I'm not sure I have any good suggestions for you. Mormons have no sense of boundaries and no respect for opinions that differ from their own. You probably figured that out when you told Lucy that you prayed and received and answer that Mormonism was a false religion and she told you to keep praying until you got an answer from God. Mormons are like bed bugs - once there is an infestation, they are really hard to get rid of.

A couple of things scare the Mormon leadership. Bad publicity and lawsuits that cost money. If it were me, when I got into my new home and was contacted by the missionaries I would say "There has been a misunderstanding. I only went to church once because a friend invited me and only let the missionaries in once to give them a drink. I have no interest in becoming a Mormon. I believe it is a false religion and the fact you people keep contacting me when I've asked you to stop convinces me that it is a false religion. If you keep coming by, I will get a restraining order out on you and I will make sure that this story gets out to the local media. I will write about being stalked by Mormons and their missionaries and freelance my story to some of my contacts in the national media. So unless you want some unpleasant publicity and a law suit on your hands, I'm going to have to ask you to stop all contact immediately." Then, I would find out the name of the mission president in your area (someone on this board can probably tell you how to get his name and phone number). This man will be the director over all full-time missionary work in your area (all those boys in suits, ties and nametags) and I would tell him the same thing you told the missionaries. Hopefully, it will work.

If the local members start pestering you, that will be another problem because they are harder to get rid of. Good luck. I hope you tell your story to all your non-LDS friends so they can see what a cult Mormonism is, despite their clean-cut image as a mainstream religion. People need to be warned and your story is very well-told.

I think this is the perfect place to share your story and ask for advice. I'm an ex-mo and it is interesting to see things from a never-mo perspective.

You are just going to have to lose the social politeness to get out of this situation. You have to be very clear and very direct and keep saying it until they stop. It's not going to be fun for you, because you are polite and don't violate other people's boundaries.

They don't get it and they have the idea that the end justifies the means. The end is a new convert and 'saving your soul' and they will violate your boundaries and wishes to get there (as they have already demonstrated.) You just have to be straight up with them and keep saying it. If they don't stop, take it to the next level until they do. You might have to tell your friend Lucy also, if you still have contact with her. Specifically tell them that you do not want to be contacted again. If you have to threaten to call the police for harassment, then do it, because if they have any way to interpret your objections as being weak, they will. If you avoid them, it will not work and they will keep you on their list.

Lissie

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I am so sorry to hear that you are now stalked...thanks for sharing your story.

My advice is to continue to set firm boundaries...

You're certainly welcome here, and you're also not the only never-Mormon person on the board having similar problems trying to get rid of the missionaries.

elderborracho mentioned deb [almost joined the Mormon Church]. She has also been very polite and what we've had to explain is that if you give these people an inch, they will take a mile. They take, "No," to mean, "Not now, but later." They take, "Maybe," to mean, "Yes." They do not give up.

Even though it goes against the natures of us nice folks, sometimes you just have to get tough and be almost rude. You'll probably need to just come right out and say, "Look. I've been really nice to you people and you are rudely refusing to hear anything I've said. I am not interested in becoming a Mormon and I will not be changing my mind about that. Now I've been nice, but now I'm beginning to feel downright stalked. If you don't leave me alone, I will need to consider calling the police."

I know it sounds dramatic, but often only the threat of legal action will make them back down.

As has already been written, Mormons live in a bubble and have little to no understanding of appropriate social boundaries. My husband has a retail business and loves to hire RMs [former Mormon missionaries] because they have learned to never take no for an answer. And, as you know, they can be very persuasive to those who know little of their own faith's theology.

The mishies are under great pressure to get people to commit to baptism and you are a "golden" investigator (in their view).

Unfortunately, you have few options that don't involve rudeness. Mishies and members will interpret your politeness as willingness to reconsider. When you are forced to be rude, they will huff away complaining about how RUDE and anti-mormon you were - they have little capacity for self-reflection in this regard.

You may have to call the mission president. He may or may not be willing to reign them in.

Good luck.

they just want to help you out! & then help you right in... to their church, which then just wants to help .... you right out of your money and your sanity.

speaking as a former missionary, this situation makes me sick.
its the typical MORmON style operation; bait & switch, manipulation,facades, phoniness, blindsiding, imposition, brainwashing, ulterior motives, name/position dropping, attempted programing, abuse of every social convention of common courtesy & decency, all to promote the scum ball MORmON corporation. I know it far too well & it makes me sick that at one time I co operated with the MORmON cult in carrying out such schemes.

Turn the tables & see what happens. ask Lucy to attend mass with you. ask her how it feel to bask in the glory of real foundational Xtianity that is found in Catholicism. See how skiddish & squeemish she becomes when someone tries to spoon feed her some religion that is not MORmONISM.

Since how this is an interchange, and you are well educated, I want to throw this out as part of my current train of thought.
it seems to me that religion in general has dealt with a host of issues with deep social & moral & even scientific implications. Before there was science, The hosts of gods was an attempt to explain natural phenomena. Xtianity actually pared way back on very large set of intricate & flawed concepts. That doesnt mean it has all the answers either.

My point is that MORmONISM is a grossly simplified, infantile thinking based Joe Smith originated set of impossible grossly short sight *solutions* to answer age old questions. MORmONS come along & act like they have all the answers & they have not even got to first base when it comes to defining what real challenges/ questions of life really are.
They are idiots acting like they have seen it all because their church told them so. They left the theatre after the first act not even realizing there was so much more & now they want to tell everyone all about what the play was really all about with their Joe Smith brand garbage. the LDS cant even begin to see how MORmONISM & its simpleton black& white thinking is a blight on humanity.

you just received the MORmON treatment -where MORmONS love to treat eveyone else like MORmONS too, & they dont have a clue how offensive it really is.

Catherine Mary Wrote:
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> I have not talked with Lucy again, but apparently
> she has used the amazing stalking skills that we
> learned in working the Census to track me down.

- - - - - - - - -

Ha! I'm betting most Mormons could teach that class better than anyone at the Census.

When I moved to a new home in a different State, the mishies (bed bugs) arrived. I gave them gatorade because it was a hot day. They came back and I began asking them questions about their religion (Doctrine & Covenants,the Kinderhook plates, their understanding of the Bible, etc..) One of them just looked at me like a confused puppy. The arrogant one argued in circles about faith.

I am a scientist with an interest in theology. Finally I brought out Fawn Brodie's book "No Man Knows My History," and offered it to Elder Arrogant to read. They prompty brought it back. I asked them if they were ordered not to read it
(Although Brodie had been a Mormon, professor at BYU and was kind but truthful in her writings). I said "Maybe when you're a grown up and can think on your own you can read books without asking permission." I also thanked them for the BOM because the illustrations (Jesus among the Native Americans) were hilarious

That pair went away. The next pair showed up at the screen door. I grabbed the Brodie book and asked them if they would like to talk about their church history. They went away (dusted their shoes, I'm sure) and none have ever come back.

My home was targeted because Mormons used to live here, I later found out. They didn't know my specifics, hadn't hunted me down.
I think there's something on a thread (Cheryl) regarding a garden hose being useful. I found having "anti" material around and asking the right questions helped. My friend who lived in Kanab would, upon hearing the Mishies at his doorstep, pull off his shirt and grab a beer from the fridge and invite them in for a drink. They stopped bugging him pretty quickly.

Thanks, everyone. I guess I hate to be rude to them because it feels so contrary to the way I've always tried to treat people, but maybe I need to take the hint--even Jesus got angry with the money changers and ran them out of the temple. You all are probably right--the only way to get rid of them is to be rude.

Caedmon: So the missionaries either view other people as polarized? Either potential converts or rude, anti-Mormons? I guess it hadn't occurred to me before, but that makes so much sense. It explains why they kept telling me, "I know God is going to reveal the truth to you." I simply wasn't firm enough to make them think I'm anything but a potential convert.

CA Girl: Yes, I'm concerned that the local members are going to start bugging me too. My new house is fairly near the DC/Maryland area Mormon temple and also a local church (ward? Sorry--not too familiar with the terms), which I wasn't even thinking about at all when I bought it--I had thought that my Mormon problems would be over upon leaving my current city.

For those who have asked, I have not talked with Lucy in quite a while, but she calls and leaves me voice mails. I have been holding off calling her back because I thought talking to her might make the problem worse. In addition to being frustrated, I'm also grieving this friendship which has been totally ruined.

And to those who suggested I contact the mission president, I think this is a great idea too. How do I contact him? I'll be living in Maryland between DC and Baltimore, but closer to DC (like I said, fairly near the temple and at least one LDS congregation). But...when the first missionary called me, he said, "I heard you just moved to Baltimore," but still claims to have visited my home. My new home is much closer to DC than Baltimore--is it possible that they haven't actually located my new home and are lying about it? I'm kind of confused. I would guess that they have actually located me, thanks to Lucy (as I said, working on the Census teaches a person all kinds of crazy stalking skills).

I, too, have graduate degrees in theology from a Catholic university. I come from a long line of Mormon/Catholic hybrids--the best line of defense? Let the mishies know that you will be happy to talk to them. But with two conditions:

#1:for each and every minute of their lesson, they must then stop and give you one full hour of Catholicsm--on the spot. And

#2:they must give you the name, address, phone number and email of their MP before you begin (so that you can contact him when they begin stalking other people in your name you can invoke his name so that you and the persons being stalked can also complain in phone calls, letters and emails).

Let the mishies know that not only will they will be devout Catholics by the end of lesson one, but you will have the tools to help them get their MP to back off and let them leave their mission--since they will be such devout Catholics and have no need of serving a Mormon mission.

This line of reasoning tends to work very well. So does Cheryl's garden hose method.

But please, if nothing else, get the MP's name, address and phone number and let him know you are not pleased with your name being used and ask him very politely 'Do I need to have my attorney contact you, or should he contact the church directly about a cease and decist order?'

Some people are saying that you shouldn't be nice to Mormons. Other people are using incredibly super clever capitalizations to try and make a point (ie, MORmON, it is probably the cleverest thing in all of clever writing).

Can you tell I'm being sarcastic? Crap like that is anathema and not helpful to anybody.

Really there are two main points I would like to make:

1. The worst they'll do is annoy you. No need to get scared, these people are generally harmless.

Of course, being annoyed is reason enough to want it to stop.

2. You should be incredibly nice when you tell them you will report them to the police on the basis of their continued harassment. If you do this angrily, it'll be written off as satan clouding your mind and judgment, and they could very possibly try harder. Be assertive, be firm, smile, and tell them what will happen if they continue to stalk you. That'll scare the shit out of em.

Good luck getting these guys away from you and good luck in your new teaching position.

As a never-Mormon, you have plenty of company here. There are many never-Mormons (usually abbreviated as “Nevermo” or plural “Nevermos”) here who have a spouse, friend, or colleague at work who is a Mormon, and they read or post here either to understand them better or to ask for assistance in handling their pushy tactics.

Unfortunately, your situation is becoming increasingly common. Thanks to the availability of information on the Internet, those who (unlike you) might consider joining the church are quickly learning facts about church history, doctrine, and practices that previously had been successfully hidden/withheld from them by the leadership. Most current members are still ignorant of these facts as well, because the leadership has brainwashed them to avoid reading anything "anti-Mormon." What "anti-Mormon" really means to them is ANY THOUGHT AT ALL WHICH IS DIFFERENT from what the Mormon leadership says is true.

Anyway, what is happening is that those who are checking out the Mormon church learn from the Internet the truth about the church BEFORE they make the mistake of joining. As a result, the church has become more desperate than ever to get new members and to get the income from their tithe. So the missionaries and members have become more pushy than ever.

Firmness sometimes to the point of rudeness is required in order to make your point to such persistent stalkers. CA girl and Greyfort have some great suggestions in their posts as to what to say the next time a Mormon missionary or member intrudes into your life! Use their suggestions above to plan how you'll respond next time.

Let us know how things go, Catherine Mary! Best wishes.

 

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I really appreciate all this advice and support. I just officially joined the message board community as catherinemary :)

My mother was raised as a Catholic and I was originally baptized as an infant in the Catholic Church, but my mother then never took me to church. Unfortunately, the missionaries got me as a teenager.

When I sent in my official letter, resigning from the Mormon Church, my mother said, "I don't understand why you're going through all of this trouble to officially resign. I just stopped going to the Catholic Church."

I said, "Well that's because the Catholic Church won't spend the rest of my life tracking me down, no matter where I go, assigning me Visiting Teachers and Home Teachers, and trying to give me a calling - anything to get me to come back again."

My mother said, "Well that sounds more like a cult."

I have friends who haven't been to the Mormon Church since 1962 and they still have regular visits from the Mormons. They have no intention of ever going back to church, but they've never been given up on.

Persistence is their middle name.

The moment I stopped going to church was the last moment a Mormon has ever visited me. It has been years and years and years now.

I've met very, very few people who have ever been harassed by Mormons, and I know a lot of exmormons.

Every experience is different I guess.

It does seem to vary depending on where you live.

I'm not sure where you are from, but I'm in the Salt Lake Valley. Perhaps they are too busy going after the other thousands upon thousands of inactives here :)

What I've heard from many RMs is that they are required to leave immediately if there is any indication of something "satanic". So maybe you could fake an interest in it - just enough convincing to scare them off. I don't know, maybe have a ouija board sitting out, or mention the seance you held last night or something.

So sorry to hear about these idiots putting your JOB in jeopardy!

Sounds like classic stalking and harassment. Your local, and soon-to-be local, police enforcement will be happy to help place a restraining order and arrest those people who are interfering with your life against your wishes.

I would start with being firm and abrupt. Meet them at the door and make it clear you are not interested. Do not prolong the conversation or let them in. Same thing if they call. If it happens twice, then be rude if you must. If they say they had a revelation, call them on it. After that, I would call the MP. Get caller ID, don't answer the phone or door. I don't think that you have to take extreme measures most of the time, but being nice or showing any interest doesn't work either.

This is so classic. Mormons NOT respecting boundaries. Mormons NOT understanding that WE normal people can be friends with others without being of "their" religion. It sickens me. They did this to my daughter as well - only she was not as mature as you and she joined after being annoyed by them for over 6 yrs. My hope is she will research and get out.

YOU might have made a friend with this co-worker. But she only liked you because she thought you "could" be a convert. This is what they do. Consider her an acquaintance you met once who was pushy and annoying. Let it go at that. I do hope they leave you alone. Get the hose out if they don't retreat- ask Cheryl!

Catherine Mary Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Caedmon: So the missionaries either view other
> people as polarized? Either potential converts or
> rude, anti-Mormons? I guess it hadn't occurred to
> me before, but that makes so much sense. It
> explains why they kept telling me, "I know God is
> going to reveal the truth to you." I simply wasn't
> firm enough to make them think I'm anything but a
> potential convert.
>
>

YES! Mormons are brought up as polarized thinkers. In their world view everything is defined as black or white, good or bad, right or wrong, true or not true, etc. There is no nuance.

It's horrible that the missionaries and Lucy are essentially slandering your good name at your work environment.

It's also sad that your friendship with Lucy is breaking, but you have to look at it for what it is. She seems to be contacting you with the sole purpose of getting you to become Mormon. Sure she may sugarcoat it, but that's what it boils down to. Because of this many people find it difficult to become true friends with Mormons, because their whole life revolves around their church and getting people to convert to it. There are countless stories here of people who, after leaving Mormonism, have every single one of their Mormon friends leave them. To see them in stores and not make eye contact, to not say "hi" at jobs any more, to not even acknowledge the fact that they were once friends. My suggestion is to tell her you want nothing, at all, to do with Mormonism. Tell her to not mention it any more, and if it makes her happy, you won't mention Catholicism any longer. Then see if your friendship can survive.

As you have discovered, Mormonism is a very aggressive proselytizing religious sect. CA Girl has some great advice for you. Contact your local mission president and tell him to call off the dogs. That may or may not work, but it's a start. You sound like a very nice, decent person, but you may need to be more assertive and aggressive than is normally in your comfort zone.

I would also give Lucy one last call and express strong anger to her that she has not respected your religious beliefs nor your privacy. Let her have it. I would tell her that you never want to hear from her nor from the Mormon missionaries ever again.

Once you have the MP's phone number, you may want to warn the president of your college that the Mormon missionaries have been spotted on campus. Perhaps he can call the MP as well to tell him that proselytizing at a Catholic school is completely inappropriate.

Keep checking back with us for as long as you want to, and let us know how it goes.

I'm inclined to agree with Snb. I'll drop my usual antics for this post.

The only real way to get them to stop the harassment is to be assertive yet happy. It confuses them. They don't really know what to do in response. Ad hominem is fun to do on this board but is quite ineffective at making harassment stop.

The only other way is to not be nice. Just say "no you can't come in." Hang up the phone. Refuse to speak to them at all. Don't engage in any dialogue.

Those are the only approaches I've ever personally found effective.

Thanks to everyone for the helpful advice. To give a bit of an update:

I called Lucy and we talked for a long while. I didn't quite know how to respond to some of the things she was saying to me. In a way, I think she may have had at least a degree of genuineness in wanting to become friends. But I also think that she doesn't know how to deal with the fact that I am not Mormon and have no intention of becoming Mormon. She admitted to me that this is the first time she has made friends with someone who was not Mormon or did not decide to convert soon after meeting her (or missionaries). I was firm in telling her that I am offended that she has continued to send missionaries my way, even to the point of calling missionaries in the area I'm moving to halfway across the country. She listened, but I could tell that she didn't understand why I was offended. She told me that she has only persisted because she is concerned for my soul. As naive and cheesy as that sounds, now that I understand a bit more about her cultural background as a Mormon I can see why she might believe that doing this is for my own good. While I am trying to understand her mindset and in some ways give her the benefit of the doubt, I was also firm in telling her that I will not tolerate any further visits from missionaries, and that if I receive anymore due to her interference I will take it as a message that she and I can no longer try to have a friendship. So...we'll see how this goes. We'll see if she can look at me for who I am as a person without judging me for not being Mormon. We'll see if she genuinely wants to have me in her life, or if she's just wanting the opportunity for one last ditch effort to get me converted. I made it clear that there are no more chances after this one. I'm not hoping for anything, but I'm trying not to expect the worst either.

As for the missionaries in my new area of residence, I was able to contact the mission president thanks to the information provided on this board. I am greatly appreciative. I called him and told him that there was some sort of misunderstanding--that I have no desire to convert or to speak further to missionaries. He actually apologized that I had been bothered, and assured me that there will be no visits. We'll see whether or not this is true in three weeks or so once I'm moved in. I'm actually going out there this weekend for some transition stuff related to my new job, and I'm going to meet with the dean of my university division. I plan on telling him about this situation and requesting that he call the mission president as well to make sure that no one is proselytizing on campus since it is a Catholic university. Additionally, I contacted the mission president for the area I live in now and I discussed the situation with him. I told him that the missionaries are bothering me at work, and on a Catholic school campus no less. I told him how disrespectful I think it is to have missionaries working on a Catholic university campus, and that if I saw them again I would be contacting the university president. Hopefully that takes care of that. But again, we'll see.

I'm still a bit concerned that I'll have issues with the local Mormon church members once I move because of my new home's proximity to the DC temple. I've been talking with a friend who lives in the DC metropolitan area and she told me that my new neighborhood is pretty heavily Mormon. Of course, I don't want to just write my new neighbors off--I certainly hope that we will be able to live peacefully in the same neighborhood. I'm trying to go into this without letting my recent bad experience with Mormons affect my attitude about these people I haven't even met yet. I hope that if there are any conversion-seeking encounters, these people will listen to me and respect the fact that I am not interested.

I will keep you all updated and am always glad for further advice :)

There are a lot of open-minded Mormons out there that can actually be good neighbors...if you get stuck living next door to Mormons, I hope they are the boundary respecting type!

Keep us updated!

It seems so weird to me now that when I was a Mormon, the entire world consisted of "members" and "non-members," of the LDS Church.

If you met a new friend, the first question out of a Mormon's mouth was always, "Are they a member?" If you're dating someone, it's always, "Are they a member?" If you said, "No," their eyebrows would probably shoot straight up in shock.

To a Mormon, the world is made up of Mormons and potential Mormons. They are so certain that they belong to God's one and only true church, that they truly can't comprehend someone not wanting to be a Mormon.

A big reason for that is because they believe that the job of the Holy Ghost is to witness the truth of the Mormon Church to anyone who asks sincerely in prayer. That's why they work so hard at getting you to pray, and why they want you to listen hard enough for the answer.

To them, there is only one answer, so if you're not getting that answer, then you're not listening hard enough. If you're not getting that spiritual confirmation, then you're simply not listening to that witness from the Holy Ghost.

That would automatically make them a little nervous about you.

So far, so good! Keep checking back, okay?

You were a lot more patient with Lucy than I would have been. I think I would have asked her how much she would like it if the JW's or Scientologists were sent after her repeatedly because they are "so concerned for her soul."

You might ask her point blank how she would feel if you sent a Catholic priest to try to convert her and then tried again and again after she said no.If she says that is different, ask her exactly how it is different. Maybe she will get it. Not all Mormons would do that. At my worst, I would never have done something like that.

Hi marycatherine, I'm so proud you contacted the mp's [mission presidents]. All regions are different and, of course under different MP's.I am not certain if you got to read my story on your page/post last week, but I was nice, always feeling as if you should be cordial, even if firm, still be cordial. I could never INTENTIONALLY be ugly or hurt someone's feelings. Even though I let them give me lesson and committed twice in 3 weeks i did research further and was turned off, changed my mind, they almost wouldn't take no. Finally they let up on ALL the contacting, coming by, etc. I did ask them to PLEASE remove my phone # when they transferred b/c I knew the new ones coming in would have my address as well as phone #. I take it they must have b/c I couldn't even tell you anything about newbies. I am not certain if you got to read my story on your page/post last week, but I was nice, always feeling as if you should be cordial, even if firm, still be cordial. I could never INTENTIONALLY be ugly or hurt someone's feelings. But it did seem @ the same time that maybe my being cordial, nice was strewed in the wrong way. I had to say NO quite frequently but it did finally cease. I've heard that if you're a member or have ever been a member that they'll locate you @ new location, but, I am not certain or have I heard anything to the fact that if you never became a member if they'll still try to track you down. I'm not certain but if anybody here can let me know, b/c I'll be relocating it looks in the next 2-3 mos. Relocating app. 12 hrs. to the west of my locale now. I hope Lucy and yourself can work things out, b/c it sounds as if she's a sweet gal. I'd hate to know that converting or helping converting mormons was the only way she knows how to befriend s'one. Good luck on your move and as well tks. much for keeping us posted.

Thanks deb! And I did get to read your post--I just didn't have a moment to reply. I appreciate the support.

When we moved to Utah yrs. ago and my girls were in Elem. School the first question out of the Mormon kids mouths was "Are you Mormon?" My daughters told me this after the first day of school. I thought...."Oh great....what a wonderful life we will have here!" It was a battle all four yrs. Mormons can't even let their young kids decide friendship on kindness and caring....nope, it is "Are you Mormon?"

Glad things went well for you catherinemary. If you don't like your new neighborhood I would suggest moving. As it may be quite unpleasant for you if you are not treated kindly in DC due to many Mormons around. They do tend to congregate around Temples. So let them go and do their screwy rituals in the temple while you do more sane things like go to the Smithsonian. Enjoy DC. It can be a great place.

I got lost in the neighbourhood around the DC Temple once, trying to find the dang thing. I stopped and asked a few people in the neighbourhood for directions and they didn't even know what I was talking about.

I thought, "How can you not know about a big building like that in your own neighbourhood?" LOL

yes hone, the few times i'd visited the lds church, i noticed kids bearing their testimony on that day. sometimes they were very confident and good w/it and then others you can almost tell the words were put into their mouth. Almost as if they were scripted and told what to say. app. 5 or 6 yrs. old. Maybe they wanted to and got "stage fright" when up there, but i can't say, either.

As far as potential Mormon neighbors in your imminent new neighborhood is concerned, you are already setting boundaries so well that it is just a matter of keeping up the good work!

As for Lucy, you say, “I also think that she doesn't know how to deal with the fact that I am not Mormon and have no intention of becoming Mormon.” Yes, that is exactly right, Catherine Mary! In her first post above, Greyfort has described perfectly the unfortunate viewpoint of a typical Mormon. Any viewpoint different from the prescribed Mormon viewpoint is considered invalid. So if you don't agree, YOU're wrong and YOU need to change! Is it possible to be friends with someone with that perspective? It is not a relationship of equals!

You sound like a really nice person, compassionate and respectful of others. You deserve to have people around you who appreciate these qualities and reflect the same to you, WHATEVER their personal religious beliefs happen to be. IMO if Lucy eventually decides she cannot be friends with a non-Mormon, it will be her loss!

Thank you for the update. Best wishes for your move to DC!

Wow, that's amazing. I mean, how can you miss that thing if it's right in your own neighborhood? It's like a gigantic, scary-looking castle. I was pretty amused the first time I was driving by it on the beltway--someone keeps painting either "Surrender" or "Surrender Dorothy" on a couple of different bridges across. I've heard the graffiti has been painted several times since the temple was first constructed.

Never seen a temple or been close to one. Thank goodness. I know they're all over but haven't seen one.

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It is common in some wards in fast and testimony meetings for a parent (usually the mother) to take her young child (age 3, 4, or 5) to the podium and whisper into his or her ear a few words at a time for the child to repeat aloud into the microphone. The "testimony" is usually along these lines:

"<whisper> I know the church is true. <whisper> I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet. <whisper> I know the book of Mormon is true. <whisper> I love my family. <whisper> And I say this in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.”

This is viewed as cute and as the mother's properly guiding the child in this step toward having his own testimony.

(BTW, I have NEVER heard a Mormon bear a testimony of the Bible’s being true. Ironic, considering how fervently the Mormon leadership insists these days that Mormons are Christian.)