Rape in Utah above National Average

Subject:	Rape in Utah above National Average - Mormonism connection
Date:	Aug 12, 2005
Author:	Deconstructor

Another grim statistic for Utah.

Rape rate a huge danger to Utahns
Salt Lake Tribune

"One in eight Utah women will be raped sometime during her lifetime. And one in three Utah women will experience some form of sexual violence - child molestation being the most common, according to a new report released Thursday by the Utah Commission on Criminal and Juvenile Justice."

"Rape is the only violent crime in Utah whose rate exceeds the national average. By comparison, Utah's rates for other violent crimes - such as murder, robbery or aggravated assault - are historically half to a third of the national average, according to the report, entitled 'Rape in Utah: A Survey of Utah Women About Their Experience with Sexual Violence.'"
- http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2935199

Equally distrubring, according to the report:

- Less than 10 percent of the victims surveyed reported the assaults to police.

- Less than 3 percent of victims went to rape crisis centers.

- Only 30 percent of those surveyed sought counseling.

"In fact, sexual assault victims reported they were more concerned about friends and family members discovering the assault than about getting pregnant or catching a sexually transmitted disease, the survey discovered."

This situation for Utah women has a direct connection to Mormon teaching and culture. Not only does the Book of Mormon teach openly that rape deprives women of their chastity and virtue (Moroni 9:9) the church teaches that women should die before "giving in" to rape.

See:
http://www.i4m.com/think/sexuality/mormon_sex_purity.htm

The October 17th, 2003, Deseret Morning News headline reads "90% of Provo rapes not reported to police." In the report, a BYU police officer explains that LDS religious beliefs are the reason:

From the article:
"[BYU Police Officer Arnie] Lemmon said most Provo residents are religious and have a tendency to stigmatize discussion of sexual assault and sometimes to demonize the survivor."

"[The Mormon rape victim] said something that blew me away. She said, 'I should have died before I let him do that to me,' " Lemmon said. "I was troubled that she had to believe that."

"Lemmon read from a letter written by a BYU rape victim who shared a similar belief. "I'm a perversion to the good saints of my church," wrote the victim, who said she wished she were dead. Tragic thoughts like these are common among rape victims in Provo, Lemmon said."
- Deseret Morning News, Friday, October 17, 2003, "90% of Provo rapes not reported to police," http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,515039389,00.html

Why is conservative, "family values" Utah so unsafe for women?

Subject:

I'm not surprised by this, I just never thought I'd see it confirmed in print.

Subject:	I'm no expert on this, but...
Date:	Aug 12 11:10
Author:	Stray Mutt

...out in the gentile world, rape is considered an act of violence and hatred rather than a sexual act. In other words, rapists hate women and use sex as a tool to hurt them. But from my years in the MoZone, I suspect rape there is more about sexual frustration and repression. That type of rapist probably loves women (at least in his own twisted, stunted way) but can't get laid in the land of the chaste. So he resorts to force.

The high incidence of child sexual molestation also fits with a sexually repressed society. With normal sexual channels out of bounds, alternate channels are sought. The women you're attracted to might expose you if you step out of line, but little kids can be controlled and manipulated and are less likely to talk. That makes them "safer."

Subject:	this just makes me physically ILL!
Date:	Aug 12 11:21
Author:	RUonLSD2?

I am making sure my daughter learns self defense early in life. She's only two yrs old now. Lucky I don't leave her alone with male cult members, and I never will (not that the cult members would be the only ones to try and harm her but you get my point).

Subject:	Re: Rape in Utah above National Average - Mormonism connection
Date:	Aug 12 11:38
Author:	allegro

I would think Utah would be a haven for sexual predators.

1. The first person called is usually the bishop, not police
2. It is still considered an act of sex in Utah
3. People will stand in judgment of the victim
4. The predator will get "a good talking to" at best
5. And I would bet the person responsible will be sitting right across from them at sacrament meeting.
6. He or she will not get counseling, since, of course, it is their fault in the eyes of the church.
7. Women are taught from birth to be meek and lowly and everything is her fault.

This church is so screwed up.

Subject:	Thank you for great information again, Decon.
Date:	Aug 12 11:51
Author:	cheeseburger

This should be made common knowledge everywhere.

I, and many of my closest friends were victims. I often wondered, as I grew up in Provo, how many other people suffered the same fate. I knew it had to be high, judging from my own personal experience and that of other girls in my own ward.

Stray Mutt has written it perfectly. Sexual deviancy is yet more fallout from the madness of Joseph Smith.

Subject:	I appreciate it when people raise awareness about this issue.
Date:	Aug 12 12:00
Author:	Punky's Dilemma

And I just wanted to throw in that, while this violent act may occur at above average rates in Utah, it is not so far above the average rates of other places as one might think. And, reporting rates and community responses to victims that Decon relayed are similar across the country.

TSCC can make it worse, as do many other sexually repressive, patriarchal, conservative, authoritarian communities anc cultures.

Rape was happening a long time before JS and TSCC. Sadly, it's a normative experience for many women and significant portion of men as well.

Subject:	Well D'uh.... why does this come as no surprise given the misogynistic ideals promulgated by the
Date:	Aug 12 12:00
Author:	Saucie

penishood ??? Why should anyone be surprised?

Subject:	exactly
Date:	Aug 12 15:55
Author:	Lilith

The focus on sex (repressed sex, but sex just the same) combined with women as 'helpmeet' --not to mention that purity pedestal women are to be installed on and you have a formula for abuse. Young men given 'priestly powers' at a young age, seeing women receive...nothing--why wouldn’t they feel superior and see women as there for their pleasure and service. It’s doctrine.

Subject:	Why is conservative, "family values" Utah so unsafe for women?
Date:	Aug 12 13:11
Author:	Fonbossi

I think we are looking at a case where the culture actually helps and encourages rapists. It reminds me of the border towns in Mexico where murdered women are typically considered murdered prostitutes before they are considered women. In other words, you would need to prove their innocence first before anyone thought that a serious crime happened.

Mormonism does that devaluation to women as well. The victim might need to explain why she is still alive because the rape was a cultural crime against her owner. To top it all off, this is perversely exacerbated by the fact that Utah county is among the poorest bastions of conservatism. If one assumes that violent criminals are just opportunistic and anti-social poor people, then criminals can be said to be just impoverished "conservatives" doing what they would normally do--wreck families and exploit weakness, but on a small scale. The point being that there are many more of them Utah with more targets of opportunity for rape over other crimes.

Subject:	Re: Rape in Utah above National Average - Mormonism connection
Date:	Aug 12 13:43
Author:	Fubeca

This type of blaming the victim is also evident in a talk by Richard G. Scott. At the end of an attempt to comfort abuse victims he offers the following:

“The victim must do all in his or her power to stop the abuse. Most often, the victim is innocent because of being disabled by fear or the power or authority of the offender. At some point in time, however, the Lord may prompt a victim to recognize a degree of responsibility for abuse. Your priesthood leader will help assess your responsibility so that, if needed, it can be addressed. Otherwise the seeds of guilt will remain and sprout into bitter fruit. Yet no matter what degree of responsibility, from absolutely none to increasing consent, the healing power of the atonement of Jesus Christ can provide a complete cure. (See D&C 138:1-4.) Forgiveness can be obtained for all involved in abuse. (See A of F 1:3.) Then comes a restoration of self-respect, self-worth, and a renewal of life.” (Richard G. Scott, “Healing the Tragic Scars of Abuse,” Ensign, May 1992, 31)

An untrained priesthood leader is supposed to assist a childhood abuse victim ascertain their level of responsibility for being abused! Those few sentences undo whatever compassion Elder Scott was trying evoke and make it apparent that leaders of the church are just old men in suits trying to sound authoritative about which they know very little.

Likewise, The black and white thinking so common in the church doesn’t mesh with what really happens in the world. The church teaches that fornication is the “sin next to murder” in seriousness. So, I’m to believe that two unmarried adults who make love one night are worse than, say, a father who beats his wife and children on a daily basis?

Subject:	This really makes me enraged. I almost can't read things like this.
Date:	Aug 12 16:33
Author:	cheeseburger

"At some point in time, however, the Lord may prompt a victim to recognize a degree of responsibility for abuse."

I'm still trying to figure out what I could have done, as an eight-year-old little girl, to stop a seventeen-year-old priesthood holder from molesting me. I didn't know what sex was, I could hardly have encouraged it. Maybe it was something I was wearing. (said with as much sarcasm as possible)

"Your priesthood leader will help assess your responsibility so that, if needed, it can be addressed."

No thanks. It was a priesthood holder who did this to me.

"Otherwise the seeds of guilt will remain and sprout into bitter fruit."

There's only one bitter fruit here; it fell like all the rest of them from Joseph's tree.

Subject:

I agree. It's unbelievably foul. n/t

Subject:	Stima? Moroni 9:9 'should die' before giving into rape-- my five cents worth on this subject
Date:	Aug 12 13:59
Author:	Deborah A. Skousen ( not from Idaho one)

I found several problems with the article. I will try not be libelous in the post. I will save liable for the experts who already did their number in the papers ( and put some kids up to it also as they hide behind their bushes), and do not mind stripping people of civil and human right liberties. I am sure a few will know full well I would love to use their worthless names.

First of all 'rather to die than to give into rape" . Considering Joseph Smith did enough of questionable behavior in this area; for the most part quite a few early church leaders did. What better way to cover one's tracts than to put it in print and as better to die. (keep middle east views out middle east view are of different origin, than 18th century american treasure seeker teaching and doctrine) So, "cloaked in social stigma" would be one way.

Having someone 'believe they are tainted by rape, is a great way for rapist to get away with criminal actions.

But there is another question here also. Social stigma for whom? Maybe for the church? Maybe for mormon's more than the victim. So, if one wishes to avoid the 'social stigma' of rape, what better way than to scare the victim into silence. Make it known to them they would not be of 'marriageable material', (kind of like if they had black blood, even one little drop, not self respecting mormon would marry ya back in time before the late 70's). And of course one could always use the old temple ceremony of throat cutting, that might frighten a few.

Let's be truthful about where the 'social stigma' comes from Officer Lemmon when he talks about social stigma. Would BYU like numbers know of rape on campus? What would that do to its image? Would Utah like the numbers known of rape victims? (sorry, looks like an article got printed Utah). I wonder what the numbers are like at say... around the age of 14?

Gee, what would it do for 'social stigma' and the mormon wards if numbers were reported of sexual assaults done to ward members, by church members? Social stigma where? and on whom?

Let's be frank about where the social stigma really would be at.

Rape is about ...... control

Rape is about ................ anger

Rape is about................. violence

Rape is about................. having the ability to harm
someone ( a need to )

Rape is about................. having no respect for
someone

Rape is about................. dominance

Sexual frustration, repression... yes, I see where that would be the case in Mormonism..but still violence is wrapped in the equation somewhere.

In a few cases it could be acting out of rage of being harmed. Just think how many victims have been battered by church leaders (documentation here not liable), only to be further victimized. Shhh... don't tell. It's your fault you asked for it... don't hurt the lord's work.... ya, right.

Truthfully, there is a need for a group formed of LDS or former LDS rape victims and outraged family members. Voices are better heard when there is a chorus.

Violence is in people and societies who seek to control, dominate, silence people or profit from other or another’s abuse.

Nice to see at least a glimmer of light is being to show on a serious problem at where roots are stemming from.

Stigma, stigma stigma, stigma. stigma. (correct spelling)

Subject:	Yes, the rape issue gets double-damage in religious areas.
Date:	Aug 12 19:02
Author:	lalala

1. As mentioned above; Among people with highly religious beliefs, the victim takes more blame for the rape.

2. Largely unknown fact (because its not politically correct); In communities with no sexual outlet (little or no porn, live stripping, adult dancing, massage, prostitution, etc) there is a MUCH higher incidence of rape.

In largely Mormon communities, add 1 and 2 together and you get a MUCH higher incidence of rape, NOBODY reporting it, and MANY women taking it out on themselves. It's a very ugly situation.

Subject:	worst yet, one initial rape => how many victims??
Date:	Aug 12 20:26
Author:	lost girl

as i previously mentioned, one mormon friend's brother was raped by their holy mormon uncle. this brother went on to molest her 4 children, i don't know how many others of his neices and nephews, and then he finally killed himself ... was it before or after molesting his own child, i don't remember.

one initial rape with one "primary" victim lead to over a dozen "secondary" victims in just this one situation. plus, we all heard about that one older guy, busted in ?calif? with his detailed noted on thousands and thousands of his victims ....

and now elder scott says .. ???ALL???? those little victims bear "some responsiblity" for the heinous crimes committed against them???? I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!!!!!!!

clearly the culture of rape that is so ignored, wink, wink, nod, nod by what has to be just an incredible number of active perps WITHIN the morg ... we've got to stop them! but how??

how do you wake up people who either do NOT want there to be any awakening (read: loss of prey), or victims who are scared to death of what they'll see (their fake-culpability) upon awakening?

Subject:	Lost Girl you are correct
Date:	Aug 12 21:19
Author:	Deborah A. Skousen - not from Idaho

The child victim, or for that matter the adult victim can be lead into a tail spin when they are forced to be quite, twisted by misplaced responsibility and guilt and not having their abuser held accountable. The victim needs proper support and not wink wink nod nod by men who's heritage usually leads back to sexual predators. ( sorry, but I feel like being a bit mean in my statements tonight on this serious issue). The victim usually is handled harsher than the initial abuser, especially if he has buds in higher or equal positions.

I am fed up with family members, friends etc., who out of selfishness cover and support sexual predators. Yes, selfishness, and no moral courage, making the victim double victimized. One can be brainwashed to death, but not to have the initial innate protection for love ones and family is 'mentally ill", and not carrying basic human decency especially in a religious setting is demonic. Covering up and victimizing children, women etc. is a breach of moral ethics and integrity.

I find it strange when insititution preach high moral living, when the institution is flawed with abuse. It makes me feel all the institution may be interested in is money and power.

When children's lives are destroyed out of the greed of adults, well.... the adults are more than very spoiled, greed self centered ***, and don't preach to me about your goodness or your beliefs. Some of these guys have lead too cozy of lives, too much money, too much... too much.

Senseless harm.

Subject:	it can happen many ways. Men/boys can misread a girls response also and proceed. Yes, some girls may be frightened some can lie, but a rapist mo is different
Date:	Aug 12 21:36
Author:	Deborah A. Skousen

and I doubt if the do it only once. Usually they also are very good a preconditioned the party they have selected, if it is a known party and not random selection.

Cultural norms maybe in conflict also, boys will be boys sort of thinking. But yes, I know of some who have accused or even blamed getting pregnant on the wrong person.

Subject:	There is also the problem of girls wanting to save their reputation.
Date:	Aug 12 21:13
Author:	Dagny

Good Mormon girls aren't supposed to play around. If a girl goes too far and starts to have regrets she feels guilty, and scared.

She worries about being pregnant and knows sooner or later she needs to go through the repentance deal to get to the temple. She is embarrassed and knows she will cause a considerable amount of shame. Maybe she has regrets and convinces herself she really didn't want to do it.

I suppose it is possible, especially in a culture like UT, she might want to make it look like she was not a willing participant after the fact. I wonder how often girls wrongly accuse the guy of forcing sex and calling rape on him.

This happened to a young man I know. Eventually he was cleared of charges. He didn't know the girl was, let's say, mentally unstable when she "consented." She didn't want to admit she was willing because two days after their brief encounter she felt "icky" about it and didn't want to see him again. So, she announced he had raped her.

All sorts of twisted scenarios are out there when people associate sex with being a bad person.

Subject:	date rape/spiked beverages is also a big problem, and/or girls or boys who "start", change their minds ... but the other person refuses to "stop", etc...
Date:	Aug 12 23:16
Author:	lost girl

again, the morg is pathetic on teaching "real life skills" since "any properly in-tune/inspired person" will never ever be in any sort of compromising position ... the morg's teachings are too vague, parents too sexually repressed/victims themselves to give their kids specific facts and self-protection strategies of all kinds ... and i do think there are a HORRENDOUS number of perpetrators who are PURPOSEFULLY and COMPLETELY supported within the morg ... no wonder so many poor utahns are sex assault survivors.

so what is the ultimate goal of the morg?

Subject:	I think the same Lost girl. It may not be all the 'repressed' stuff. But self protection strategies taught true. I came to this
Date:	Aug 12 23:47
Author:	Deborah A. Skousen allis Molly Brown

board after speaking with Richard Packham and N. Collins. Ms. Collins suggested coming to the ex mormon board.

Self protective strategies, one needs an entire fleet within the morg experience. We were so damaged, it has been such a struggle, very few really good people around, but greatful for the people who helped now and then. Good people are tough to find in this world. People always seem to want to angle one way or another.

Life is getting busy again so I probably will not be coming very often here. I almost stopped until the 'spelling issue' came up. Some need to be a bit kinder on english and spelling issues. Let their teachers instruct them. There is a difference from being an intellectual, and someone who has knowledge.

It sure gave me a start and a bit of a scare when someone flashed a note to me while I was at the ex mormon site. "I would rather work with an intellectual!" I thought my god another crook!

Takes a lot of courage to face a group which is aligned, I have done enough of that. I like a statement I heard last night. Courage is when you are scared, and you do very brave things.

I am with Victor Frankle's thinking in many areas on what gives a person courage to face difficult time.

I am frighten for my kids, who have grown up in horrible stress. Some of their education and lives have been hamper by people who enjoy their lives by denying them. Either not caring or enjoying the fact they did, and I more than fed up with the interruption in my life.

I started a book a few years ago, when I got hacked. Looked around for a co writer. I have quite to say, and some views to express, about people, religion, and our country, with a few skills returning. I am getting started.'
'
Best to the ones who are finding their way out.

Subject:	Subconscious Tactic to Eliminate Guilt
Date:	Aug 14 15:03
Author:	Angelina Jolie

Considering the church's stand on premarital sex and the fact that both young men AND women are horny means that you could get the following case: In the heat of the moment a young couple gets busy for the first time, then afterward the girl can't face the fact that she was turned on and wanted to get boned so she accuses the guy of rape. Voila, instant absolution of guilt and an abortion if necessary.
Let's remember that sexual repression works both on the male and female mind.

Subject:	Re: Rape in Utah above National Average - Mormonsim connection
Date:	Aug 14 15:20
Author:	Linda Walker

The only reason other violent crimes are lower is because of under, or wrong reporting. Many violent deaths are ruled accidental especially to children, thus not included in the statistics.
Flora Jessop and I have turned in an amazing number of so called natural deaths to the FBI that we think are suspect and need further investigation. We have spoken with the coroner’s office and the Utah AG. HO HUM! They are just too busy to worry about the dead.
The reasons for death of so many polygamous children stretch the imagination to the max.
One we reported is a young boy who supposedly got his truck stuck and while looking under it, stepped on the gas and ran over his own head. Many of the cases we reported had their skulls fractured and were run over. Yet in the same time period no St George children were run over. Why? It is a much larger community with many more vehicles and people.
And we discovered by challenging these deaths how downright amazing it is that people in positions of trust would go along with this under and false reporting.
Don't fool yourselves there is nothing safe about that Utah society.

Recovery from Mormonism - The Mormon Church www.exmormon.org

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