Mormon: Gordon B. Hinckley the Mormon Prophet responds "I don't know"

Subject: Gordon B. Hinckley - "I don't know."
Date: Dec 27 11:37 2004
Author: NEPA

A transcript of the Larry King interview II is now up at CNN:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0412/26/lkl.01.html

And I am "grateful" that he has provided me with additional "I don't know" material for my growing collection.

There were a few telling parts of the interview. One was when Hinckley was asked what happens when you die. Since Hinckley doesn't know, WHY WOULD ANYONE JOIN TSCC [This so called church]???

And also he admits that he gets "impressions" and "feelings", "It isn't necessarily a voice heard." Huh? Then why oh why do you need a prophet? Doesn't every member get the same?

And I liked his evidence of being a prophet. Constructing buildings at "great cost." And if constructing buildings is a "bold measure", I think Donald Trump has my vote for the next prophet. I can see a "Trump Temple" sign on temple square.

Well, here are some of my favorites:

+++++++++++++++++++

KING: What happens when you die?

HINCKLEY: When you die? Well, I'm not fully conversant with that. I haven't passed through that yet.

+++++++++++++++++++

KING: You are the prophet, right?

HINCKLEY: Right.

KING: Does that mean that, according to the church canon, the Lord speaks through you?

HINCKLEY: I think he makes his will manifest, yes.

KING: So if you change things, that's done by an edict given to you.

HINCKLEY: Yes, sir.

+++++++++++++++++++

KING: But as the mores have changed - for example, I know that the Church is opposed to gay marriage.

HINCKLEY: Yes.

KING: Do you have an alternative? Do you like the idea of civil unions?

HINCKLEY: Well, we're not anti-gay. We are pro-family. Let me put it that way.

And we love these people and try to work with them and help them. We know they have a problem. We want to help them solve that problem.

KING: A problem they caused, or they were born with?

HINCKLEY: I don't know. I'm not an expert on these things. I don't pretend to be an expert on these things. The fact is, they have a problem.

++++++++++++++++++

Subject: He doesn't know what happens when we die????
Date: Dec 27 11:59
Author: austinapostate

Wow, he should take the missionary discussions. We explained it every day to hundreds of investigators!

Subject: Re: GBH - "I don't know."
Date: Dec 27 12:13
Author: Laur

I'll grant GBH one thing - at least he doesn't seem to want to lie about not talking with Christ face to face.

Somebody else might just decide to make stuff up, but it's clear he doesn't want to do that.

He comes right out and tells people how limited his powers are, but evidently TBMs [Mormons] do not hear what he is really saying.

Subject: One thing that irritated me...
Date: Dec 27 12:36
Author: Dagny

When I was growing up in the church, it used to be taught that God didn't go for opulence. The Catholics were BAD because they seriously put out bucks for glitz to praise and worship God.

Now GBH claims "nothing is too good for the Lord." I guess I missed that memo from Jesus saying he now wants big bucks to be spent on buildings. I guess Jesus is impressed with the gold in the Vatican after all?

Larry sort of touched on the charity work that could have been done with the money instead of building the conference center. Silly Larry, he was probably thinking of the pre-memo Jesus who taught to sell everything and give to the poor.

This set GBH off on a tangent about the things they do for charity but he neglected to say it is a drop in the bucket compared to the shrine building budget.

Now the church has a new cliché' when they want to spend lavishly: GBH said, "nothing is too good for the Lord!"

I like how GBH explained how the building was used (for conference-two lousy times a year-and for performances). Yeah, that's WAY more important than charity because you "have to house the people."

I must have missed that part in the NT where Jesus emphasized building plans.

How do you compete with the Crystal Chapel trend and the Vatican if you are humble and you want to go mainstream? You build the conference center.

Subject: Re: GBH - "I don't know."
Date: Dec 27 13:07
Author: TheMadRev

The fact is, they have a problem

HMOG!!!!!

He really said and believes this>>The ONLY problem is with people who will not, cannot accept them for who they are.
Period. God is NOT a bigot!!!!

Subject: SL Tribune article LINK on King Interview
Date: Dec 27 13:15
Author: NumLock currently

http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2498841

Subject: LOL! Trump woud be an excellent prophet. He likes to brag and showoff.

Author: Funky Green Apron

I remember seeing Trump giving a tour of his penthouse apartment in the Trump Tower. The decor was gilded and very expensive but the cost of it couldn't overshadow the cheesey look. It reminded me of a modern LDS temple. Meanwhile Trump is running his mouth how it's the "biggest" and "best".

Trump is always in a dark suit and likes to write books about himself to boot.

I think Trump is a prophet of God. LOL!

Subject: More to add to the growing list of the prophet's "I don't know"...
Date: Dec 27 13:22
Author: Deconstructor

http://www.i4m.com/think/leaders/Hinckley_dontknow.htm

Subject: Another "don't know" from long ago
Date: Dec 27 13:58
Author: Quevedo

Gordo has clearly been using this worn out bromide for a long, long time.

From "America's Saints: The Rise of Mormon Power," by Robert Gottlieb, and Peter Wiley, 1984, p. 31:

"...When [Tom] Brokaw asked if the church was a major force behind the defeat of the ERA in some western states, the man who had engineered the excommunication of Sonia Johnson from behind the scenes and had played a central role in rallying the Saints against the ERA paused and then responded, 'I don't know that we have done that.'"

All I have to say is that Gordo is certainly a goober, and TSCC is definitely a non-prophet organization!

Subject: Thanks for the link, NEPA!
Date: Dec 27 13:24
Author: Lost no more

Also thanks for listing some key insights. With regard to 2005, I didn't read any prophecy but note his optimistic sentiments:

1) "I hope there'll be a resolution of the Iraq situation."

2) "I hope that the economy will be good."

3) "I hope that there will be peace across the world."

I think GBH is an optimist who hopes for good outcomes, or at least likes to paint a good PR image for the public. I do wonder about subsequent church presidents' agendas and their unique views/bias toward PR.

He built the conference center for 3 reasons:

1. To impress visitors during the Olympics
2. To hold a concert or two during the Olympics, and as a place to hold concerts in the future where the MoTab could begin to charge money for concerts ($$ Ka ching!)
3. To get into the convention business (renting it out for conventions throughout the year - $$ Ka ching!). On my last visit to SLC, Rotary International was holding a conference there.

Subject: If Hinckley doesn't know whether or not gays are born gay,
Date: Dec 28 07:36
Author: Beaujolais Joe

isn't he saying that he doesn't know whether being gay is a moral issue? And if it's not an issue of morality, the church has no business passing judgment on the worthiness of gay people and should be at the forefront of advocating legally recognized committed relationships for them.

If the prophet doesn't know any of these basic things, the Morg really needs to get out of the business of pretending to tell people what god wants them to do.

Can it be any more obvious that these guys are making it all up? Impressions in the mind??? For that I have to pay 10% of my annual income for the rest of my life???

Subject: So GBH does not know what happens after death!!!
Date: Dec 28 20:56
Author: Secular Priest
:
I was taught we go to spirit world or spirit prison. Those in spirit prison will be taught the gospel and if temple work is done for them, they can be together. If not they remain single.
How is that for a good answer .It was what I was taught at Church for 50 years.
So how come GBH can not explain that to Larry King. It just goes to show how the people at the top expect the people at the bottom to push the gospel, but those at the top are not going to say a word.

Subject: GBH is actually a sophisticated, worldly man.
Date: Dec 29 03:12
Author: 24H

He knows how nutty the traditional teachings of Mormonism are. He doesn't believe them and he wants other prominent leaders in the world (whom he regards as his true peers) to respect him. When he's talking with someone like Larry King, he's addressing two different audiences. To the other sophisticated, worldly people who manipulate society through the large organizations they control, he wants to say that he knows the difference between religious fantasy and practical governance. He wants his peers to know that the fantasies are for the people and that he is a savvy, level-headed, calculating leader just like they are. He wants them to know that they can trust him not to take Mormon religious fantasies literally. At the same time, he doesn't want to be so obvious in his statements that the Mormon sheeple catch on to his duplicity.

Accordingly, he has to blend his messages to his different audiences into statements couched in bland non-committal language. His peers learn from all of his I don't knows that he's not a true believer. (After all, how can you be a true believer in something that you claim not to know anything about in particular.) On the other hand, the Mormon sheeple can tell themselves that he's just being diplomatic and "not casting his pearls before swine."

It's seems really obvious to me that GBH has no genuine belief in the basic myths of Mormonism (e.g., the First Vision, the Golden Plates, the Doctrine of Eternal Progression, the guidance of living prophets and so on). He's cynically playing out his role as a head of the organization, keeping it intact and keeping the Sheeple under control.

I guess I'm just surprised at how effectively the Morg has destroyed the ability of so many of its members to think critically or perceptively about anything regarding the Church. The Mormon Sheeple are so programmed it's ridiculous. GBH knows that as master ventriloquist he can make a majority of active Mormons parrot almost anything he wants them to parrot.

Subject: My review of the Hinkley/King date in Gordon's new house
Date: Dec 27 19:16
Author: Polygamy Porter
Mail Address:
What a pleasant date Gordon had with Larry in Gordon's prideful new home, the great and spacious conference center!

Thirteen major points and the second to last one is a huge infomercial!

1. Enough about your great and spacious building already, get over it.

2. Buildings. Lookie Larry, we are growin cuz we build 400 building a year.
Also, nothing is too GOOD for the Lord, we will spend money in his name!

KING: Why do they have to be so grand?

HINCKLEY: Well, they're not so grand. They're just beautiful.

KING: Ah, they're pretty grand.

HINCKLEY: They're beautiful. They're beautiful. Nothing's too good for the Lord.

These are houses of God devoted to worship. Nothing's too good for Him.

3. Women. His response was similar to the response of an abusive husband.

KING: The Mormons' public image in dealing with stereotypes. One, women are regarded lesser in the Church.

HINCKLEY: Oh, there's no substance to it. Ask the women. You'll get the answer.

KING: They can't get your job, though.

HINCKLEY: No, they can't. They've got one of their own, and that's a very responsible job. They have their own organization. They have their own board.

It's the largest women's organization in the world with four million members. There's nothing like it anywhere else in the world. And they run a tremendous organization.

RS?? Yeh right. It is simply an organization to placate the women in their desire to have the position and power of men and the priesthood. Hello Hinckley, they STILL report to the big priesthoody of the ward -- the bishop. Hell, they won't even let em be financial clerks... oh I forgot, Jesus said finances are only done in his house by MEN.

4. Blacks. Hello? not Africans, Blacks, big diff. What does Hinckley do? He talks about the two TEMPLES in Ghana and Nigeria.

KING: How is the Church doing with black membership?

HINCKLEY: Wonderfully. Wonderfully. I was in Africa last January, dedicated a temple in Accra, Ghana. We have a great facility there.

I'll be back in Nigeria sometime this coming year to dedicate a new temple there. And that temple will be devoted almost exclusively for the work that black people will do there.

KING: Do you envision someday a black prophet?

HINCKLEY: Could well be within the realm of possibility.

KING: So you've come a long way in that regard.

HINCKLEY: We've come a long way.

5. Working mothers, he thinks we are paying a price for this..

KING: You once said that you didn't like women working outside the house. Has that changed? The realities of economic life?

HINCKLEY: I think we're paying a price for it ...

KING: Explain.

HINCKLEY: ... in family life, in looking after children. The family across America, across the world, is under terrible stress. We all recognize it, I think. You see it. Latch-key children. Gangs in our cities.

The absence of a mother in the home is a very serious thing, I think.

Read history books buddy, there were gangs in every major city since before you were born. There are more people today, and therefore more gangs.

KING: But the absence also of strong financial help causes many, many families to require ...

HINCKLEY: That's ...

KING: ... both people to work.

HINCKLEY: That's true. That's very, very true. But I simply say this. Be careful. Do the very best you can.

Hey Hink, how about being more understanding when working mothers turn down callings?

Then the hidden message to all working mothers:

When all is said and done, the greatest satisfaction you'll have in this life as you grow old will be seeing your children grow in righteousness and faith and goodness as citizens of the society of which they are a part.

There'll be no greater satisfaction than the satisfaction you'll gain from your family.

Who will be first to hear THAT overused in your next RS meeting?

6. Enough about the misleading numbers. For the last time, there are NOT 12 Million members. There are approximately 2 million [to 4 million] and the majority of them are in Utah, Idaho, Arizona, and California.

KING: ... you're the leader of a flock of 12 million.

HINCKLEY: Yes. Yes.

7. Mormons are more healthy than nevermos, all due to the WoW. Mormons have just as much obesity per capita as the rest of the nevermo nation. The WoW has nothing to do with the grow(pun intended) epidemic of obesity in this nation AND around the world.

KING: Are you concerned about health in America? I know the Mormons concentrate a lot on eating well and doing the right things. No smoking, no drinking, watching the foods they take. But America is ...

HINCKLEY: Getting fat.

KING: ... what, getting fat, not healthy.

HINCKLEY: That's what they say. That's ...

KING: We don't have the ...

HINCKLEY: ... what I read.

KING: We don't have the best health system in the world any more.

HINCKLEY: Well, we're so affluent. That's one thing. We probably overdo it.

KING: Do you ever preach on that?

HINCKLEY: Oh, of course. I've given talks on the word of wisdom, as we call it. A great thing. It's a remarkable thing. In 1833, the Church received this teaching on health that has blessed our people in a wonderful way.

Statistical evidence shows that, by and large, we live longer than the normal population. And I think it's directly attributable to that law of health.

Yet we see more obesity not just in the society of nevermos, but in mormons as well. Too bad McDonald's was not around in 1833.

8. What happens when we die has never been so cloudy.

KING: What happens when you die?
HINCKLEY: When you die? Well, I'm not fully conversant with that. I haven't passed through that yet.

Look at the definition of conversant:

con·ver·sant (kn-vûrsnt, knvr-)adj.
Familiar, as by study or experience.

You are the president/prophet and you are not familiar with this?

KING: Well, call me. Knowing you, I'll be there and I'll call you.

LAUGHTER)

yuck it up funny man

KING: But you do believe that something happens.

HINCKLEY: Oh, of course we do. But we believe that death is a part of an eternal journey, that we lived as spirit children of our father before we came into this life.

That we're here in mortality as a part of an eternal living, and that we will go on living after this life, purposefully. And that through the redemption of the Lord Jesus Christ, men will be resurrected. There will come a time of resurrection.

And those who walk in obedience may go on to exaltation.

Hey Larry, he is talkin about becoming a God, no questions?

9. The second coming. Not even the man who talks (i.e. gets impressions from) to Jesus knows?

KING: And you've been waiting so many years for this, the return of the Messiah. When do you expect it?

HINCKLEY: I don't - I don't know. Even the angels in heaven don't know. I have no idea.

Then this: He looks forward to the destruction of the world.

But I'd welcome it at any time. The world has so many problems, that if he were to come, it would be better, I think - far better.

And again, no idea of when. At least he did not throw out a number like JS did...

KING: There's no doubt that, in your mind, he is coming.

HINCKLEY: He is coming, but I have no idea when.

10. His propheticalness and how he gets messages from the big man in the sky.

KING: You are the prophet, right?

HINCKLEY: Right.

KING: Does that mean that, according to the church canon, the Lord speaks through you?

HINCKLEY: I think he makes his will manifest, yes.

KING: So if you change things, that's done by an edict given to you.

HINCKLEY: Yes, sir.

KING: How do you receive it?

HINCKLEY: Well, various ways. It isn't necessarily a voice heard. Impressions come. The building of this very building I think is an evidence of that.

There came an impression, a feeling, that we need to enlarge our facilities where we could hold our conferences. And it was a very bold measure. We had to tear down a big building here and put this building up at great cost.

But goodness sakes, what a wonderful thing it's proven to be. It is an answer to many, many needs. And I think it's the result of inspiration.

KING: And that came from something higher than you.

HINCKLEY: I think so.

That's it? Of everything else going on in the world and it boils down to the damn Deseret Gym replacement? Hello Hinckley? it benefits LOCAL mormons only. The rest of the world watches or listens. So you are telling us that the most important revelation in the past five years is an oversized television studio? Holy Hell Helaman.

11. In bed with Huntsman family, who'da guessed. Long live the theocracy.

12. Infomercial about their next carrot to lure unwitting nevermos into the cult

KING: We'll be back with our remaining moments in a special presentation that just might be the best gift I've ever gotten - right after this.

COMMERCIAL BREAK) KING: One of the things that the Mormon Church is famous for worldwide is its expertise in genealogy - it may be the number one - looking back and telling people where they came from and why.

And tonight before we went on, President Hinckley presented me with - I can't believe this - the genealogy of my own family. The arrival of my mother and my father at Ellis Island in 1907 and 1923. The papers they filled out at Ellis Island.

What a nice note to end on, about how wonderful Larry feels about this "gift" the mormons have given to him.. Impressive, yawn, geneology that goes back to his... parents, wow, gee Wally. What would have been impressive was the genealogy of all of his previous wives.

This whole "genealogy" spin is the new way for missionaries to sneak into the lives of nevermos. It is a two edged sword.

The missies have been doing it out here in northern California since last summer. They tug heartstrings by asking if you would like to know more about their ancestors, most people unwittingly answer yes. The mishies then offer a "free" genealogical research service for them by simply filling out a card with their personal info on it. The mormons then go and do the research, to be delivered to the unwitting nevermo's home. How convenient, while the mishies are there why not blather on about the church and eternal BS...first discussion. Regardless of the outcome of that, the church now has enough info to harvest more names of helpless dead to add to the list of names to use at the temple of the dead which will keep mormons attending the temple and thereby full tithe paying.

Look here the spin doctor is in da' house! Wow, warm fuzzies for all who are watching...

HINCKLEY: Here's a map of where your father was born and your mother was born.

KING: That is - as I said, I've received some enormous gifts in my life. This I will treasure more than any other, including your friendship.

HINCKLEY: Well, when all is said and done, as I've said before, nothing is more important than the family.

And this is your family, your forbearers, your roots. And I hope that this will be a source of satisfaction to you. And we're just so pleased to do it.

KING: Well, I am honored to accept it.

HINCKLEY: Thank you, sir.

13. And what does the mormon pope see for the future? Nothing really, he just hopes for the best like the rest of us non-prophets.

Subject: Re: genealogy gifts
Date: Dec 27 21:07
Author: birdie2

Why do they only give out genealogies to the people who have money and means to buy it such as King and Bush?

What about the thousands of members around the world who have to sweat it out and work through libraries and name extractions to get their genealogies? Doesn't their 10% count toward getting a nice bound copy of their family histories?

LDS Inc. is sicko!

Subject: Re: My review of the Hinkley/King date in Gordon's new house
Date: Dec 27 21:19
Author: runswscissors

I haven't laughed that hard in a while. The comment on the prophet's biggest revelation in the last five years was to tear down the Deseret Gym is well worth quoting.

The church would rather have families be denied basic goods (so the church can "provide") than have a mother work to support the household. They don't get it and they won't get.

Subject: WHAT DID HINCKLEY SAY???
Date: Dec 27 21:25
Author: Matt

"KING: And that came from something higher than you.

HINCKLEY: I think so."

He THINKS so? He only friggin' THINKS so?

A Mormon child will tell you (with the odd little poke from mommy or daddy) that: "...And I bare my testimony that President Hink-er-ley is a true prophet of the Lord..."

Hey. TBM parents. Stop your kids from saying that. 'Cos even President Hinckley isn't certain if he's a prophet, or if there's a higher power! :o\/

Subject: Re: My review of the Hinkley/King date in Gordon's new house
Date: Dec 27 23:33
Author: allegro

After bragging about this expensive building, Larry asked him what it is used for. Hinckley states there was a wonderful Christmas program a few days ago, 2 General Conferences, and well Christmas (paraphrasing). So, guilting people into paying tithing even if they only have enough for one more meal and the "great and spacious building" is never used. Why can't people see through this????

Subject: Re: My review of the Hinkley/King date in Gordon's new house
Date: Dec 27 22:19
Author: kolobkremedonuts

"There came an impression, a feeling, that we need to enlarge our facilities where we could hold our conferences. And it was a very bold measure. We had to tear down a big building here and put this building up at great cost.

But goodness sakes, what a wonderful thing it's proven to be. It is an answer to many, many needs. And I think it's the result of inspiration."

Uh-huh. So that's evidence of revelation. How marvelous, how wondrous! A huge building replaces a slightly smaller building on the temple grounds just in time for the Olympics! Wow, it's uncanny and remarkable that Hinckley would receive this impression/feeling/revelation. How could the old dude know that thousands of people from around the world would visit temple square during the Olympics!? How could he have known that a larger building would be needed to cater to all of these people? I'll bet that revelation kept the old dude up nights. It's simply marvelous and wondrous!

Subject: Re: My review of the Hinkley/King date in Gordon's new house
Date: Dec 28 00:46
Author: CrappyChristmas

"There'll be no greater satisfaction than the satisfaction you'll gain from your family."

Yeah - unless you leave the mormon church and your son stays in with his wife and kids - and they decided that having Catholic grandparents is unacceptable - then they call you on Christmas morning for God's sake and tell you that you will NEVER see them or your grandchildren again - so goodbye - call if you ever want to come back to "the church".

Sorry - but thanks for letting me vent.

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