| Subject: | Are websites like this the work of the devil? |
| Date: | Mar 09 12:11 |
| Author: | Laura |
| like I have said in a previous post, I am in the
process of trying to figure out if I believe in Mormonism, but its hard.
I want to thank the people here who have shown me support, but is that
warmth and caring attitude just Satan's sugar coated way of leading me
farther away from the church? I come to websites like this, and I read
material that reveals all kinds of fraud and lies and discrepancies
about the church, but I hesitate to believe any of it. people who say
those things are exactly what I've been taught my whole life to avoid. I
feel so stupid saying this, but how can I REALLY be sure that it is not
the work of the devil, as I have been taught for so long? I listen to
myself sometimes when I say things like that and I think I sound pretty
ridiculous, but then I listen to my mother, who is wonderful, smart,
intelligent, loving woman, telling me of the peace she has in her life
because of the strength of her testimony in the gospel, and I wonder how
she could be wrong. I don't know...I am literally torn in half by this |
| Subject: | Yes. I also run other websites, such as... |
| Date: | Mar 09 12:14 |
| Author: | Satan a.k.a. Lucifer |
| Ex-Jehovah Witness websites Ex-Scientology websites Ex-Moonie website Ask any JH, Scientology, or Moonie and they will tell you I run the above websites. |
| Subject: | Nah, you're just starting Phase 1 of clearing the mind... |
| Date: | Mar 09 12:18 |
| Author: | 2 of 6 |
| ...of all that Morg junk. Let it happen, you'll be glad later. |
| Subject: | Re: are websites like this the work of the devil? |
| Date: | Mar 09 12:28 |
| Author: | Wil |
| I was in the same boat that you now are in. And now I am convinced the LDS church is "not" the one and only true church but is a cult. You need to study cult mentality and see just how it fits the Mormon church. |
| Subject: | Re: are websites like this the work of the devil? - Hmmm, let me see. The devil is real? |
| Date: | Mar 09 12:35 |
| Author: | SusieQ#1 |
| Or the devil is an imaginary demon. Which seems more
reasonable? OK. I choose the second one. That means the devil is just magical thinking that there is something out there that can get in my mind and mess with it. Is that possible? Gosh, that seems silly. I guess not! So, that means that I can choose to look at my world anyway I want. Now the question is; are imaginary demons a helping me feel confident and self assured. Nope. That is not working. Gosh, maybe I can ditch that notion along with Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy being real ! Ahh, whew, that was not so hard. Now I feel a lot better.:-) |
| Subject: | Have you seen... |
| Date: | Mar 09 12:34 |
| Author: | anyone |
| the Tanner's website? They have done SO much
research and have copies of SO many of real documents to view online
that it is hard to argue with that. Also, read By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus by Larson. Extremely interesting reading! |
| Subject: | Hmmm...how to answer without seeming like a minion of the devil... |
| Date: | Mar 09 12:37 |
| Author: | anon |
| ...of course a really crafty minion would act just
like I'm acting right now in order to deceive you. A really crafty
minion would seem conflicted, introspective, genuine, and empathetic in
order to subtly wrap the Chains of Despair around ya. Well. Go back to the Church. It's ok. If that's what makes you happy. Seriously. Would a really really crafty minion just say what I said? Dang. Maybe. Maybe his craftiness is so sublime that he'd make you think that he didn't care if you really did go back to the Church thus getting you to trust him even more. Dang! Don't listen to me! You'll be fine whatever path you choose. Wait. A really really really crafty minion would've just told you not to listen to him. Crap. You know...I just don't know how to come across as a person rather than a Minion of the Devil. Hmmm...maybe I'll just tell you that history is history. Facts are facts. Weirdness is weirdness. Deception is deception. Revisionism is revisionism. Changes are changes. And the Church, it's history, doctrines, scriptures, politics, and leaders contain all of the above to the 'nth' degree. And it's too much for me. It's not True, and that's just the way it is. And I'm sorry if I've come across as a crafty minion. I'm really just a guy who doesn't believe in minions, the devil, or the Church. 'Course...a really really really really crafty minion would've said that, too. ;) |
| Subject: | Well said, anon |
| Date: | Mar 09 12:45 |
| Author: | zman44 |
| Laura, I also am new to this forum. My advice is that you objectively peruse the many links that can be found here regarding "non faith promoting" church history, etc. and decide for yourself. |
| Subject: | The truth will become evident if you study . . . . |
| Date: | Mar 09 12:51 |
| Author: | imaworkinonit |
| it's not a matter of TRUSTING anyone. You have the
ability to figure out the truth. Years and years of membership in the church have convinced you that you must rely on faith and that to preserve that faith you must turn a blind eye to any information that challenges that faith. WHY? If it's the truth, then you could examine it as much as you want and the evidence would STILL support that truth. Examining your beliefs would only make them stronger. I think the very belief that you must avoid questioning should make you ask WHY. If they have nothing to hide, then why don't they want you to look? Is the fear of questioning an admission of weakness? Why don't they just answer the dang questions? Don't be afraid to ask. You'll find the answers. If you don't want to trust anyone, then look for original documents or facsimiles. At first, I confined my search to church approved sources (desert book stuff) to avoid the anti-mormon element. I found all the information I needed right there (no doubt, I just gleaned the objective information and drew my own conclusions). You can do it. |
| Subject: | Laura, please take a deep breath and consider this... |
| Date: | Mar 09 12:52 |
| Author: | PRAVDA |
| When all is said and done, religion is nothing but a
choice. We expose the incongruences and pitfalls which prove that the
mormon church is nothing but a man-made organization which claims to be
of divine origin. Many people however, choose to follow the path of belief. They get emotional when they read about Jesus and how much he suffered for us. They WANT to be the good person. They don't want to be the Judas of the story, or the bad roman who spits on the lord's face. So when they read scripture or listen to preaching (and this is true in most mystic religions) they expect some spiritual confirmation. With time they believe that all those add up to knowledge that the church is true. In reality they just have a collection of feelings they interpret a certain way, not any kind of proof. They just have chosen to believe. Think about it. If you choose to believe any experience can be tossed in the testimony building pile. If it's a trial, it was to make you stronger. If it's a blessing, it proves that god loves you and by extension (which doesn't make sense) that the church is true. No one ever hears clear-cut definite voices from heaven (unless affected by mental disorder, or during REM sleep) or sees visions declaring Mormonism true. All everyone has is "feelings of warmth and joy" when praying or doing something good. But they CHOOSE to interpret these feelings as testimony that it's all true because someone else told them that they should interpret them that way. Others will tell you that those same feelings mean that ISLAM is true, for example. But as you probably know, these are unreliable. Often we have a gut feeling which proves unfounded. Even mormon prophets tell stories where they weren't sure what a prompting meant, of felt no prompting at all. Remember how Brigham could have saved thousands of loyal and faithful saints of all ages from terrible deaths of Cholera in the migrating caravans of pioneers, had the Lord revealed to him three simple words: "boil the water". We had to wait for science to figure that one out. In similar fashion, Gordon B. Hinckley, when confronted with the salamander papers, only a few words from God were required: "It's fake", to save church contributors thousands of dollars and maybe avoid Hofmann's murders and the death of more innocent people. It seems that god reveals nothing but common knowledge to these men, but when it's really needed, he shuts up. So, even if you want to say that the gospel can't be proven right or wrong, then we're back up to the point were it simply is a choice you and only you should make. Do not stay a mormon because other people believe that "it's the right thing to do". Only if it is the right thing for you. I've often wished the gospel were true, but searching deep inside my soul, I have found that I don't really believe it. I don't really believe that a man called Nephi made a boat and traveled from Judea to Panama with his family and that they populated the American continent. I don't really believe that the hieroglyph shown in the Book of Abraham has anything to do with the story told by Joseph in the book. I don't really believe that Joseph Smith got up a shiny bright morning, being 14 years old, went to a grove to pray and God and Jesus Christ in person came down to talk to him and told him not to join any church and that he would be called to found and lead Gods only true religion. Honestly, I don't think it happened. And if it didn't Joseph lied and I can't be part of an organization that says that if you don't believe that story Satan has a hold of you and you're being deceived. The price of admission (along with your tithing money) is to buy that and many other mythologies. I don't. Do you really? Think about it. Love and chance bless, PRAVDA |
| Subject: | Re: are websites like this the work of the devil? |
| Date: | Mar 09 12:56 |
| Author: | Randy J. |
| >like I have said in a previous post, I am in
the process of trying to figure out if I believe in Mormonism, but its
hard. I want to thank the people here who have shown me support, but is
that warmth and caring attitude just Satan's sugar coated way of leading
me farther away from the church? No. It's the sincere feelings of people who have been exactly where you are, and who know exactly what you are going through. >I come to websites like this, and I read material that reveals all kinds of fraud and lies and discrepancies about the church, but I hesitate to believe any of it. people who say those things are exactly what I've been taught my whole life to avoid. And why do you think those people (like church leaders) don't want you to read this stuff? If "anti-Mormon material" is all false, why would church leaders caution you against reading it? Do you think maybe they're afraid you might determine that the literature is NOT false? >I feel so stupid saying this, but how can I REALLY be sure that it is not the work of the devil, as I have been taught for so long? Have you ever considered the possibility that religions have invented "the devil" in order to create a "good versus evil" mentality in their members' minds, and thus control their thoughts and actions, and ensure their adherence to the religion? Much like what some parents do when they tell their toddlers not to stay out after dark, or "the boogeyman will get you"? >I listen to myself sometimes when I say things like that and I think I sound pretty ridiculous, but then I listen to my mother, who is wonderful, smart, intelligent, loving woman, telling me of the peace she has in her life because of the strength of her testimony in the gospel, and I wonder how she could be wrong. I used to think that way about my 87-year-old Mormon mother too. But as I grew older, and researched more about the origins and history of the church on my own, I soon realized that my mother's "testimony" was based on false facts and assumptions. That doesn't mean my mother isn't smart or loving; it simply means that she, like nearly all other Mormons, have been presented a very one-sided view of the church's origins, history, and motives---the side given to her by the church. Think about this: Millions and millions of people around the world believe that their particular religion is the "one true" one, just as Mormons do. Many of those people are intelligent and loving, claim to have "testimonies," and claim to have increased peace in their lives because of their religious beliefs, just as Mormons do. And yet, the LDS church claims that it is the "only true church." So, what does that tell us? It tells us that being intelligent, loving, or having a "testimony" of a belief system does not make that belief system factually authentic. It tells us that one's "feelings" are not necessarily an accurate method of determining facts. As for specific items of fraud, lies, and discrepancies in the church-----if such things were only claimed by "rabid anti-Mormons," I can see where you'd be skeptical of them. But the fact is that nearly all of those things can be substantiated from the church's own publications, as well as the diaries, journals, newspaper accounts, court records, etc. of the participants. For instance---for many years, church leaders and writers denied that young Joseph Smith had been a folk-magician and treasure-seeker in the 1820's. They denied that because they knew if it were true, it would cast the young Joseph in a very different light than the image church leaders had formulated of him being a pious, humble, law-abiding young man. Church leaders claimed that the reports of Joseph's occult activities were lies invented by anti-Mormons. But as the years have passed, more and more historical accounts have surfaced which substantiate the claims. And some church historians are finally admitting that Joseph was indeed an occult folk-magician and treasure-digger for several years before he began telling people he had had heavenly visions. Many "anti-Mormon" writers have also claimed that Joseph's accounts of being ordained to the priesthood by Peter, James, and John were dubious. Recently, a long-time seminary and institute director named Grant Palmer published a book in which he admits that the story of the priesthood restoration is indeed highly questionable. You can read about it here: http://www.signaturebooks.com/excerpts/insider's.html In another instance---For decades, church apologists claimed that Joseph Smith did not have sex with his "plural wives." They claimed that such assertions were the work of "anti-Mormons who want to destroy the Lord's church." But as the years have passed, more and more historical data has surfaced to prove the claims true. In fact, an active LDS historian, Todd Compton, recently wrote an exhaustive book on the subject. You can read excerpts from it at http://www.signaturebooks.com/excerpts/insacred.htm These are just a few examples of how issues which church leaders once claimed were "lies of anti-Mormons" are now being admitted to by modern church scholars. >I don't know...I am literally torn in half by this Just about every other reader here was in your position in the past. You can read about my own family's journey out of the church at http://www.latterdaylampoon.com/gazelem/apologetics/randyjordan/ Best wishes to you in your search for truth. |
| Subject: | How do you learn to separate the anti stuff from real true historical information! |
| Date: | Mar 09 12:57 |
| Author: | vcj |
| I am in the same spot as you are, I may be a little more convinced that it is all a lie. But I am having a hard time separating the anti stuff which in a lot of cases is also a lie, with real historical information that tells us the truth about JS and Mormonism. |
| Subject: | Easy |
| Date: | Mar 09 13:19 |
| Author: | Not Logged In |
| I have to say this time and time again. But STICK TO PRIMARY SOURCE material. I have a library with original early or first printings of early church material such as Journal of Discourses, History of the Church, BoM, etc. Stick to that and you'll find all the answers. You'll find these in public libraries, sometimes in church libraries, at BYU, or, if you have the money, buy it online. No need to look to Ed Decker for answers. There's plenty out there coming straight from the horse's mouth. |
| Subject: | Re: are websites like this the work of the devil? |
| Date: | Mar 09 13:07 |
| Author: | Reinventing Grace |
| Depends who you ask. GBH or BKKKP: Yes God: No Me: No My mom: only if they're not knocking down what others are building up. (that'd be a "no" for exmormon.org, a maybe for the other frank discussion sites). Basically, the Mormon Church is real shy about factual evidence that counters its claims. And, in order to keep people from talking about that factual evidence, they brand folks like activists, historians and biologists to be of the devil. Now, some of these activists are full of BS, others are right on the $. If you believe the doctrine that we're supposed to learn good from evil here in this life, and learn to discern for ourselves, ya gotta get your feet wet once in a while. And this involves asking bigger questions than "should I pray about where to go on vacation this year or should I just decide for myself" It might involve asking questions like: * "If JS appeared to be a prophet in the eyes of many, and a con man in the eyes of many, might I do well to look at both arguments before coming to a decision?" * "If the Mormon Church sez it's a family church, but won't spend more than $50/year on the nursery and tells normal squirmy kids that god isn't happy about their behavior, should you swallow this or ask a question or two instead? * "If GBH was duped by a clever con man and dropped $100,000s of tithing $ to buy forged documents, should I take this man's advice on how many piercings my ears should have? How about whether or not The Brethren are infallible? I suspect it is the devil (that's the Mormon Devil, hypothetical or not) that does *not* want these types of questions asked, and wants people to go on wearing blinders and not really ask important questions about what is good, what is bad, etc. RG |
| Subject: | Re: are websites like this the work of the devil? |
| Date: | Mar 09 13:15 |
| Author: | tm |
| You ask if this site is of the devil? I questioned the same thing. I know where you are at. I've been there, done that. What I had to do is bite the bullet and read well documented books on the church history. The book that got me to questioning the truth is the book on Emma Smith, but what really tripped me over the edge is a WELL documented book "One Nation Under God". The stuff that happened back then will make your toenails curl. Members were intimidated and threatened. If they did not do as "Brigham" or "Joseph" said, they were promptly disciplined. Sometimes it was through death. I am still recovering from all of the violence and murders that took place back then. The laws of the land were ignored. The church leaders are still covering up what took place. Why do you think they consistently tell you to stay away from anything other than what was written by the church???? It is fluff stuff.... They want to keep you in their little box, so that they can continue to tell you what to do. They do not want you to think on your own. Notice, once you try to explore on your own, they really come down on you with the guilt crap, reprimanding, etc... My suggestion is to study, study, study.... Get outside of their box and find out for yourself what is true and what is not. Pray about it.... but go OUTSIDE of the church to find answers.....There are other resources. Don't just accept what others say. Do your own research.... If you can accept how the church really and truly came about, then stay with the church. But I will guarantee that once you study other resources you will be sickened by what really took place. It is heart breaking.... And I promise you will not be struck down with a bolt of lightening when you step outside of that box. |
| Subject: | To believe the church is true, you MUST believe that... |
| Date: | Mar 09 13:33 |
| Author: | Joe |
| Joseph Smith dug up a golden book and translated it with either A) a magic rock or B) magic glasses, and conveniently the golden book is not available for any reputable scholar to examine. Interestingly, God allowed tons of old biblical scrolls to remain on the Earth and be examined by scholars. Not that that proves the Bible is true, but it allows trained scholars to check the accuracy of the Bible translations. Think about it, Mormonism comes down to one man's claim with no physical evidence to back him up. There are literally thousands perhaps more religions with a self proclaimed prophet at the head. Sure Joseph had witnesses, but the witnesses were NOT qualified to offer an expert opinion on the accuracy of the BofM translation or the authenticity of the plates (if there were any for them to see). So what it comes down to is Joseph Smith's word. Do you believe he translated gold plates with a magic rock/glasses? If you believe he did, why don't you believe in other prophets, like David Koresh? This is what got me thinking and eventually led me out of the church. When I thought about Joseph Smith's claims, I realized how outlandish they were. I had to ask myself if I really believed Joseph's claims. After looking at the evidence, I decided I didn't believe him, and then I had to ask myself if the church could be true without Joseph Smith. |
| Subject: | I know how you feel... |
| Date: | Mar 09 13:34 |
| Author: | Meghan |
| The first time I looked at a web page giving the
details of the endowment ceremony I was amazed that I wasn't somehow
stuck down by God. Now that I think about it, it seems silly that I was
afraid to look at stuff like that but the church teaches you to avoid
anti-mormon material. The problem with their definition of anti-mormon
is that anything that shows the church leaders were less than perfect or
something to that effect is considered anti. You have to decide for yourself what you want to do. If reading the exmormon boards makes you uncomfortable then perhaps you should stay away for awhile. Do some research, stick with Mormon materials. D&C 132 will give you something to think about. The Journals of Discourse are full of interesting doctrines that are no longer taught today. Read books like In Sacred Loneliness which is written by a Mormon. There's enough evidence out there within mormon sources to prove the church is false. I know in my experience I tried to search for something to explain all the little things that didn't add up and the more I searched the fraud became more and more apparent. It was an incredibly hard thing to find out that the foundation I had based my entire life on was a fraud. I was afraid in the beginning that maybe it was Satan leading me away, because in some ways it would be easier to stick your head in the sand and say all the bad things I've learned about the church are from Satan. But somewhere in the back of your mind it'll eat at you. For me it became a matter of intellectual integrity. I've seen my parents ignore certain facts or things that make them uncomfortable. I in the end couldn't do it. Its your choice and I hope that whatever choice you make you find peace and happiness. |
| Subject: | Meghan is right. Church sources are best |
| Date: | Mar 09 13:46 |
| Author: | Joe |
| And most so-called 'anti-mormon' books simply reference church materials. Fawn Brodie was attacked and excommunicated for her 'anti-mormon book' about Joseph Smith. She cited her sources which were from History of the Church, Journal of Discourses and the standard works as well as court documents and diaries. Church leaders just don't like to keep their ugly history buried in intimidating volumes of mostly boring doctrine. They get angry when the ugly stuff is pointed out, highlighted and indexed. D&C 132 shocked me when I read it, and I was a BIC 30 year old at the time. I guess I never read it all the way through before. So it's NOT adultery to take additional wives if they are all virgins and I can take 10 virgins and it's still not adultery? Interesting. Is this like the 72 virgins that Islam promises martyrs? |
| Subject: | Laura, you don't need websites like this to VERIFY your information. |
| Date: | Mar 09 13:43 |
| Author: | NEPA |
| Do some homework online and gather information that
troubles you the most. Then use that online material and compare it to
original PRIMARY SOURCE MATERIAL. Meaning the History of the Church,
original BoM, Journal of Discourses, etc. These original materials can
be found in most libraries either on the shelf or through inter-library
loan programs. If you're having trouble finding them, ask here. You will easily find "the work of the devil", as you put it, in the original works of the mormon church. Good luck in your journey. NEPA |
| Subject: | Is there anything really wrong with following statement... |
| Date: | Mar 09 13:45 |
| Author: | Southpark |
| "Look, maybe us Mormons do believe in crazy
stories that make absolutely no sense, and maybe Joseph Smith did make
it all up, but I have a great life. and a great family, and I have the
Book of Mormon to thank for that. The truth is, I don't care if Joseph
Smith made it all up, because what the church teaches now is loving your
family, being nice and helping people." (South Park) OK. I know I left off the best part at the end of that. But is there really anything wrong with a TBM taking this kind of position if it is a "great life" for them? |
| Subject: | There's nothing wrong with that at all... |
| Date: | Mar 09 13:52 |
| Author: | Joe |
| Joseph Smith wasn't all bad. The 11th article of faith is a great way to approach religion. It should be the definition of religion in America. The problem is Mormons can't let members leave. Look at all the stories on this board of people who want to resign but can't. Resigning means losing your mormon friends and likely losing your family. Just look at the original message in this thread. Laura is scared that she is being influenced by the devil just by questioning. That's some serious brainwashing. |
| Subject: | Re: are websites like this the work of the devil? |
| Date: | Mar 09 14:37 |
| Author: | Chet |
| Many of the postings here give references to help verify the statements. Follow them up as surely as you should follow up claims by the church. Then you can decide for yourself what is right and not fear being led astray. If you cannot immediately verify a claim (on either side) don't accept it until you can. |
| Subject: | Man, I feel your pain! |
| Date: | Mar 09 14:49 |
| Author: | AFNO |
| I was where you're at 18 months ago. You wanna know
how I was able to go through the BIZARRE temple ceremony full of things
that made my head raise red flags aplenty? I looked over at my sweet
G'ma Lee and said to myself, "There's no WAY this is wrong because
my G'ma Lee is here, and I trust her." She was a wonderful woman,
and a leader in many MANY ways, but she was duped like I was by the lies
and frauds. e |
| Subject: | Truth is painful and |
| Date: | Mar 09 15:08 |
| Author: | hawkeye |
| the fact it may be controversial, "from the
devil," upsets the status quo, pisses people off, challenges their
identity, undermines their faith, does not in anyway whatsoever.... make it less true. |
| Subject: | Sugar Coating. |
| Date: | Mar 09 16:29 |
| Author: | Anon |
| I don't see any sugar coating here. I see people who
have been deceived and hurt and are reaching out to help you (for the
most part) since they've been there before. I think your conditioning in the Mormon church has caused you to look for "feelings" to validate your thoughts and doubts. You'll need to research, learn to think on your own, ponder things and make a decision on your own. What you decide to do in the end really makes no difference to most here. Stay a TBM member, become a Jack Mormon, Social Mormon, Cafeteria Mormon (pick and choose), or leave altogether. There's no one correct thing to do. You can only do what is best for you, your family and your situation. I hope you find peace in whatever your choice is (and that may change over the years). |
| Subject: | And speaking of Sugar Coating, |
| Date: | Mar 09 16:34 |
| Author: | Anon |
| Look at the Mormon Church. Everything has changed
and been sugar coated over the years. It's to the point that even Gordon
B. Hinckley doesn't know if he teaches some of the most basic beliefs.
Want some examples of what Hinckley doesn't know? Gordon B. Hinckley "Now we are at war. Great forces have been mobilized and will continue to be. Political alliances are being forged. We do not know how long this conflict will last. We do not know what it will cost in lives and treasure. We do not know the manner in which it will be carried out. It could impact the work of the Church in various ways." "No one knows how long it will last. No one knows precisely where it will be fought. No one knows what it may entail before it is over. We have launched an undertaking the size and nature of which we cannot see at this time." "I do not know what the future holds. I do not wish to sound negative, but I wish to remind you of the warnings of scripture and the teachings of the prophets which we have had constantly before us." "Now, I do not wish to be an alarmist. I do not wish to be a prophet of doom. I am optimistic. I do not believe the time is here when an all-consuming calamity will overtake us. I earnestly pray that it may not. There is so much of the Lord’s work yet to be done. We, and our children after us, must do it. I can assure you that we who are responsible for the management of the affairs of the Church will be prudent and careful as we have tried to be in the past. The tithes of the Church are sacred." - Gordon B. Hinckley, “The Times in Which We Live,” October 2001 General Conference (Ensign, Nov. 2001, Page 72) "I hope that prayer will take on a new luster in our lives. None of us knows what lies ahead. We may speculate, but we do not know." - Gordon B. Hinckley, “Till We Meet Again,” Ensign, Nov. 2001, Page 89 "Brigham Young said if you went to Heaven and saw God it would be Adam and Eve. I don't know what he meant by that." Pointing to a grim-faced portrait of the Lion of the Lord, as Young was called, Hinckley said, "There he is, right there. I'm not going to worry about what he said about those things." I asked whether Mormon theology was a form of polytheism. "I don't have the remotest idea what you mean," Hinckley said impatiently. - Hinckley Interview in "Lives of the Saint", New Yorker, January 2002 http://www.newyorker.com/PRINTABLE/?fact/020121fa_FACT1 "Beyond the wonderful and descriptive words found in sections 76 and 137 [D&C 76; D&C 137] we know relatively little concerning the celestial kingdom and those who will be there. At least some of the rules of eligibility for acceptance into that kingdom are clearly set forth, but other than that, we are given little understanding." "The next question you ask is why Eve was created from Adam. I can only respond that an all-wise Creator did it that way...." "Now, Virginia, you call attention to the statement in the scriptures that Adam should rule over Eve. (See Gen. 3:16.) You ask why this is so. I do not know." "You ask whether men are more important than women. I am going to turn that question back to you. Would any of us be here, either men or women, without the other?" - Gordon B. Hinckley, “Daughters of God,” Ensign, Nov. 1991, Page 97 "Question: There are some significant differences in your beliefs [and other Christian churches]. For instance, don't Mormons believe that God was once a man?" "Hinckley: I wouldn't say that. There was a little couplet coined, "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become." Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about." - Interviewing Gordon B. Hinckley, San Francisco Chronicle, April 13, 1997, p 3/Z1 From a interview Jan 29th, 2002 conducted by reporter Helmut Nemetschek, ZDF television, Germany, at Salt Lake City, Utah, in the Church Administration Building: "Question: Until 1978 no person of color attained the priesthood in your church. Why it took so long time to overcome the racism?" "Hinckley: I don’t know. I don’t know. I can only say that. But it’s here now. We’re carrying on a very substantial work on Africa for instance and in Brazil. We’re working among their people developing them." - Interview Jan 29th, 2002 conducted by reporter Helmut Nemetschek, ZDF television, Germany, at Salt Lake City, Utah, in the Church Administration Building. http://www.mormonismi.net/artikkelit/hinckley_video.html "Is this the teaching of the church today, that God the Father was once a man like we are? Hinckley: I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it. I haven't heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don't know. I don't know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it. But I don't know a lot about it and I don't know that others know a lot about it." - Interviewing Gordon B. Hinckley, Time Magazine, Aug 4, 1997 http://home.teleport.com/~packham/gbh-god.htm "At the close of one particularly difficult day, I looked up at a portrait of Brigham Young that hangs on my wall. I asked, "Brother Brigham, what should we do?" I thought I saw him smile a little, and then he seemed to say: "In my day, I had problems enough of my own. Don't ask me what to do. This is your watch. Ask the Lord, whose work this really is." And this, I assure you, is what we do and must always do." "As I reflected on these matters that recent difficult day, I opened my Bible to the first chapter of Joshua and read these words: "Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee" (Joshua 1:9). I said to myself: "There is never reason to despair. This is the work of God. Notwithstanding the efforts of all who oppose it, it will go forward as the God of heaven has designed it should do."" - President Gordon B. Hinckley, Fall 2003 General Conference, Sunday Morning Session Helmut Nemetschek: "Until 1978 no person of color attained the priesthood in your church. Why it took so long time to overcome the racism?" Gordon B Hinckley: "I don’t know. I don’t know. (long pause) I can only say that. (long pause) But it’s here now. We’re carrying on a very substantial work on Africa for instance and in Brazil. We’re working among their people developing them. We’ve had them among the leadership of the Church and they’re able to do a great work and we love them and appreciate them and we respect them and we are trying to help them." HN: Now, Mr. President, one question which is a little bit complicated for me to understand but I heard it an one colleague asked me to ask you. What will be your position when DNA analysis will show that in history there never had been an immigration from Israel to North America? It could be that scientists will find out? GBH: "It hasn’t happened. That hasn’t been determined yet. All I can say is that’s speculative. No one really knows that, the answer to that. Not at this point." - Gordon B. Hinckley Interview – ZDF German Television Salt Lake City just prior to the 2002 Winter Olympics, Utah January 29, 2002 Conducted by Helmut Nemetschek at 47 East South Temple |
| Subject: | Ultimately, You have to answer your own question |
| Date: | Mar 09 17:06 |
| Author: | Puli |
| For me, it was realizing that the top church leaders
had lied; that JS had lied (and was a con man before becoming a profit);
that the BoM witnesses either lied or were misrepresented in what they
supposedly saw; etc (the list goes on). Either Satan was influencing the
Mormon church (the liars) and it was all "good," or there was
another explanation. I opted for another explanation. Ultimately, you will have to decide who is sugar coating what. Do what you need to do to make your decision. |
Recovery from Mormonism - the Mormon Church |