| Subject: | Ward boundary tussle reveals dark side of the Church |
| Date: | Dec 22 07:56 2003 |
| Author: | Higgins-Magee |
| Mail Address: |
| A family recently moved into our ward, but just next
to the ward boundaries. They have four children under the age of 13. The school boundaries where they live require they attend schools where no other children in the ward attend. So they come to church on Sunday with all of the other kids who mostly attend school together. The father asked the stake president for permission to attend the next ward over so his children could go to church with the same kids they see at school. The answer? Of course, it was no. GBH claims the church is about meeting the needs of individuals, yet this is a clear example that this is not the case. And I suspect it's repeated over and over again throughout the church. |
| Subject: | Re: Ward boundary tussle reveals dark side of the Church |
| Date: | Dec 22 09:15 |
| Author: | deadbeat |
| Mail Address: |
| All you gotta due is go where you want. That's what
I did. They tried to raise a stink. I said if you don't want us here I know a BAPTIST church that would just love to have us attend with them. Never heard another word. Too often Mormons are just to weak and afraid to stand up for themselves. And when you do, they usually back down. Just like with the tithing slip issue. I told they Bishop not only would I not fill out tithing envelopes it wasn't really any of his business how much I gave. He said I was disobeying the prophet. I asked him "which one?" and where is it written. He shut up and never spoke on the subject again. Stand up for yourselves and get some balls. |
| Subject: | I don't get it... |
| Date: | Dec 22 09:23 |
| Author: | rhys |
| Mail Address: |
| ...one needs to ask permission of someone else on where to go to church? |
| Subject: | Yes. |
| Date: | Dec 22 09:49 |
| Author: | Cheryl |
| Mail Address: |
| Leaders draw up maps showing which houses on which streets attend which wards. You must attend church in the building at the time they tell you unless you are willing to sell your house and move to the boundaries of a ward you happen to like. |
| Subject: | Re: Amen... |
| Date: | Dec 22 10:15 |
| Author: | SD |
| Mail Address: |
| When I was stationed in Japan they split our little
branch in two. I had a regular english teaching gig in the afternoon so
when they switched times I switched branches. Others asked to switch and
were turned down. Nobody said Boo to me. You're right Mormons are
programmed to be chicken shits. That's they way the church wants them. |
| Subject: | Re: Ward boundary tussle reveals dark side of the Church |
| Date: | Dec 22 10:09 |
| Author: | Rhema |
| Mail Address: |
| That family's first mistake was to ask for
permission instead of simply attending the ward that is most convenient
for them. It's a church, for crying out loud, not the Prussian military. |
| Subject: | Re: That's what happened when I was a teen |
| Date: | Dec 22 10:11 |
| Author: | Jeff |
| Mail Address: |
| You know it probably helped me find my way out of
the cult. When I was younger I'd see all the kids in my ward at school
everyday so there was a lot more peer pressure to keep me involved. When
we moved later most of the kids went to a different school so I barely
knew them. Their attempts at peer pressure had no effect on me. I ended
up with a lot more free time to ponder things and realized Mormonism was
a screwy bogus dogma. |
| Subject: | "meeting the needs of individuals" Ah-ha-ha-ha! |
| Date: | Dec 22 10:26 |
| Author: | Stray Mutt |
| No, it's about individuals meeting the needs of the
church. The members are there to build up the Kingdom of God and obey
the leaders. But, yeah, they give a lot of lip service to "individual needs." |
| Subject: | I was in a similar situation |
| Date: | Dec 22 10:37 |
| Author: | Brad2 |
| Mail Address: |
| When it came time to go to Jr. High there were three
of us on our street which were split off from the rest of the ward. The
Stake President who was also on the School Board moved the boundary so
we went to the school with the kids in the ward. |
| Subject: | Re: Ward boundary tussle reveals dark side of the Church |
| Date: | Dec 22 10:30 |
| Author: | EloHer |
| Mail Address: |
| It's all about control. The Morg controls what
members wear, what they eat, when and where they go to church, how much
they pay to the collective, etc. etc. etc. The glory of God in Mormonism is not intelligence, as they claim, it is blind obedience. |
| Subject: | It makes sense within the institutional context of the church |
| Date: | Dec 22 10:41 |
| Author: | Maturin |
| Mail Address: |
| The church relies (read "survives") on a
lay ministry. And remember, that means priesthood (read
"males"). In order for a unit to be viable, there has to be a certain mass of priesthood holders. Having been involved in a few boundary realignments at the stake and ward levels, I can tell you from my experience, it's almost all about priesthood. Sometimes a line takes a pretty strange turn just to capture a high priest or active elder. Obviously they take into consideration general numbers, but when it comes down to making a decision...it's about priesthood. Certainly GBH makes sense from the TBM perspective that the church knows our individual needs better than we do. |
| Subject: | This was one of minor irritations that contributed to my leaving the church. |
| Date: | Dec 22 10:43 |
| Author: | Abalone |
| Mail Address: |
| It seemed like every year or so, our ward boundaries
would be changed for seemingly arbitrary reasons. Certainly, no member
was ever consulted on how they felt about switching to a new ward. The reason given for these changes didn't help any. It was always to balance out the membership, so that each ward had a similar number of active members, and not too many inactives. Why in the hell would an individual ward member care about that? Later in life, when I went to work for a huge, impersonal corporation, I had no problem adjusting to the arbitrary shuffling and firing of personnel, because I grew up in the LDS church! |
| Subject: | Re: Ward boundary tussle reveals dark side of the Church |
| Date: | Dec 22 10:55 |
| Author: | ianhusford |
| Mail Address: |
| When i was coaching church softball, one of the guys
brought a friend with him. He played on our team about three times when
the coach of the opposing team and the umpire came over to me and said i
will forfeit the game because of this guy being on the team. Turned out
he was inactive and living in their ward. When i pulled him aside and
told him, he said it was true but that his ward was such assholes he
wouldn't go to it. So much for fellowshipping inactive members too. ian |
| Subject: | well, that's one of the dumbest things I ever heard. |
| Date: | Dec 22 11:33 |
| Author: | rhys |
| Mail Address: |
| So if you go to the church you want (i.e. the wrong
one) will someone there kick you out? I agree that this family needs some cajones. |
| Subject: | Very Similar, "Holding Back" Our Kid In Primary |
| Date: | Dec 22 11:58 |
| Author: | going, going, gone |
| Mail Address: |
| Our oldest son's birthday is in the first week of
January. He's always been a very bright kid, and so when he was turning
3 years old, we assumed that he'd head out of nursery into primary. Not so fast!!!! The primary president said that no matter now bright our son was, the deadline was Dec. 31 and he'd have to stay in nursery for another year. I pointed out that it was absolutely stupid to keep him back over the matter of being born a few days late. That resulted in a call from the bishop saying that rules are rules, no exceptions. No exceptions, except for the fact that the high councilman living in our ward had a kid with the same birthday, and his kid was going into primary. When I pointed this out, our son was admitted to primary with the caveat that if he didn't behave, it was back to nursery. When we moved to a new ward, we sent him to the same age group. When our records arrived, the ward clerk confronted us and said our son needed to go back a class. We spoke to the bishop and explained it to him. He had no problem with it and told the clerk to drop it. Yep, it's all about people. |
| Subject: | My parents lived in the same house for 40 years |
| Date: | Dec 22 12:57 |
| Author: | Bright Aqua |
| Mail Address: |
| and were in several different wards and stakes. I
was the only one in the ward attending a particular high school, which
meant that I was the only one in early-am seminary from the high school.
It was horrible!!! My parents finally got tired of being shuffled around and asked to be in the one ward that had an older demographic that they identified with. It went all the way to SLC and created a huge stink. They didn't attend any ward for a year or so. It made a huge impact on their "testimonies". What did it matter where 2 older people went to church? There were no kids to worry about. It's just another example of control, control, control. The gerrymandering that occurs to keep "worthy priesthood" is laughable, because people move in and out often, at least here in Northern California... |
| Subject: | My experience with it. |
| Date: | Dec 22 13:10 |
| Author: | Jesse Wardlow |
| When I was first baptixed, I was living with my
parents in one ward, and my future in-laws, lived in another. My inlaws
are the ones that got me into this, and in a way, got me out of it. My
girlfriend also lived with her parents and attended their ward. On the day of my baptism, the missies call to tell me that there was a problem. I couldnt be baptised in the Longivew ward because I lived in Kelso. It would have to be done over there. I was pissed. I told them that I would no go through with it if I had to do it over there. They called back and said it was no problem. Then after the baptism, a guy I dont know has me sign something. He then introduces himself as a rep from my new ward in Kelso, and hopes to see me there this Sunday. What? That is when the Bishop of Longview ward grabs me and pulls me aside and tells me that I have to go to the Kelso one. I looked at him and said if I have to go to the Kelso ward, I will walk out now and not come back. HE walked off with the rep from Kelso and then came back and said I could stay but have no callings. I had no idea what a calling was, but I was fine with staying. Finall after getting married we lived in Longview 2nd ward for a while then moved north to Castle Rock. We tried to keep going to Longview 2nd, wife was pregnant with twins and we all ready had a 4 year old boy. She like to be close to her mom and dad, so we went to Longview. Again I could not have any callings as long as we chose to do so. But we did have many Castle Rock members come by and anoy my wife and I. When me moved back to Longview after the the twins were born, we lived in the same ward as her asshole TBM brother. So we used that as our excuse to not attend that ward. So we just stopped going all together. Then we bought our hosue and moved back to longview 2nd ward and they instantly gave me callings. We still never went and about that time I found this place. And then two months ago we came out to her parents, and now the ward wont have anything to do with us. IT's great!!!!!!!! Sorry for the rant, but this is my first post. That felt great to say. |
| Subject: | No callings? That was meant as a disincentive? |
| Date: | Dec 22 13:23 |
| Author: | Abalone |
| Mail Address: |
| Seems like an excellent reason to ALWAYS go to a
ward that you're not supposed to be in. BTW. I enjoyed your rant. Post more often! |
| Subject: | Re: Ward boundary tussle reveals dark side of the Church |
| Date: | Dec 22 13:18 |
| Author: | Rhema |
| Mail Address: |
| What really gets me is when people fellowship
potential converts they take them to their wards where everybody
love-bombs them. The minute they get baptized they are told they now
have to go to another ward where they don't know anyone. And they wonder
why people don't come back. Idiot Mormons, always just following orders. |
| Subject: | Everyone KNOWS the ONLY needs the church truly meets are its OWN! It has to come out on top on ALL things! nt |
| Subject: | Local leaders also move members around to suit their purposes..... |
| Date: | Dec 22 16:14 |
| Author: | Randy J. |
| For instance, it's fairly common, if a ward or
branch lacks a "qualified" man to serve as bishop or BP, the
SP will pull a guy out of a larger, stable ward to serve. That sometimes
means that his family has to get up earlier and travel however many
miles away the father has to go to the ward or branch, and his children
go to a different ward or branch than other kids right in their own
neighborhood. Also, a few years ago, when our stake was split, the new SP wanted to have a newly created ward to qualify to have a new church built. So the SP instructed several families living in the adjoining ward, which was larger, to attend the tiny ward, to make up the attendance numbers required to qualify. Most of those families had to drive 15-20 minutes to the small ward, when their regular ward was only 5-10 minutes away. After the small ward "qualified" for the new building, the SP had the families go back their regular ward, which reduced attendance severely at the new building. But if a church member up and decides to attend a different ward on his own, that's a big no-no, and he's instructed to go back and attend the ward whose boundaries he lives in. |
| Subject: | Yet, they don't mind gerrymandering in the least. |
| Date: | Dec 22 16:21 |
| Author: | YukonCornelius |
| Mail Address: |
| If they have a strong candidate they want as Bishop,
they will gerrymander the crap out of the place to get him in it. That's
what they did in the town I live in...a very similar situation to what
you are describing (maybe you live in my town, or the other town that
borders it). The Ward boundary has this one side, that sticks North like a little finger, to snatch up the home where the Bishop lives. There are a lot of hurt feelings in this Ward because a whole section of the Ward lives in the other Ward boundary. The families there did not want to go to another Ward where the kids would not know most of the other kids (and where there was quite a smaller group of kids). The SP finally gave in to it because there was mutiny on his hands...and one was the EQ President. This allowance left many of the Ward members in my town thinking that these people in the very large and pricey homes could get away with anything in the church. It's a brewing disaster really. Now, I hear they are planning a new boundary to fend off the vultures and create some calm. |
| Subject: | Blessing in disguise |
| Date: | Dec 22 16:37 |
| Author: | Richard the Bad |
| Mail Address: |
| Man, I wish this had happened to me as a kid!!! No
church brats at school to spread rumors (although most of them were
true) around in church. Just think, no peer pressure link between school
and church. Yee haw. Hey, and twice the parentally acceptable babes to
chase!!! Thats twice the chances of finding renegades like myself!!! (I
fondly remember sneaking out of MIA with a certain young lady, smoking
cigs and making out in the apple orchard.) The church surely doesn't
realize it, but this makes life much easier for those who don't want to
be there anyway. |
| Subject: | My parents had the rare opposite experience. |
| Date: | Dec 22 18:40 |
| Author: | SteveH |
| Mail Address: |
| When my parents' Southern Idaho ward was reorganized
a few years ago they were left in a corner in a new ward and their
neighbors and friends on three sides remained in the old ward. (The
fourth side is a farm.) The bishops of both wards came to my parents' house and said that they could go to whichever ward they wished. My mom and dad chose to go to the new ward which they knew that "they were supposed to attend." My mother was actually a little put out, because she knew what the rules were. (They have lived in the same house for fifty five years and been in three stakes and many wards.) It was a great choice. My parents were in their late seventies at the time and all of the other new ward members were young families. They are now the ward's adopted grandma and grandpa and have many friends who look out for them like family. |
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