the sin next to murder

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>Another Day OlderJuly 2012</p>\n<p>As most of you know, Mormonism teaches that consensual sexual sin (especially adultery, but also fornication, premarital sex, masturbation, etc.) is the sin next to murder</p>\n<p>, based primarily on Alma 39:5, which states:</p>\n<p>\"Know ye not, my son, that these things are an abomination<br />\nin the sight of the Lord; yea, most abominable<br />\nabove all sins save it be the shedding of innocent<br />\nblood or denying the Holy Ghost?\"</p>\n<p>What \"sins\" would you list as more serious than sexual sins, including arguably the most serious sexual sin of adultery? Here\'s a few to start with:</p>\n<p>-torture of another human being<br />\n-child sex abuse<br />\n-rape<br />\n-arson<br />\n-assault with a deadly weapon</p>\n<p>What would make your list of sins that are more serious that adultery?</p>\n<hr />\nMJ<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nMaking false claims about what god wants so the person can get what they want.\n<p>Hiding priests and others that molest children.</p>\n<p>Owning slaves</p>\n<hr />\n<p>archaeologymatters<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nFurther proof that Joseph Smith didn\'t believe his own religion. Even if you play the polygamy card, he was cheating on his wife before that.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Mia<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nUsing Gods name, and putting words in his mouth to rob, and control people.</p>\n<hr />\nblueorchid<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nBarring your parents from your wedding.\n<p>Telling a ten year old that they are immoral.</p>\n<p>Knowingly making anyone feel so worthless that they contemplate suicide.</p>\n<p>Kicking someone when they are down for personal gain.</p>\n<p>Wearing white after labor day. (Well... I always try to end on a high note.)</p>\n<hr />\nxophor<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nI think TSCC makes it rather clear that gay sex is waaaaay worse than hetero sex. I may be wrong, but I think I read somewhere that after being exed, it\'s a three year wait for readmission after gay sex compared with the standard one year. Of course, there\'s surely a lot of variation with how this actually plays out in individual cases.\n<p>After my niece got knocked up at the end of her first year at BYUI, I posed a question to a family member asking which is worse: Two mutually consenting men having sex together, or a single woman getting pregnant and yanking a spirit out of the spirit world and into an incomplete family/home? Of course the answer is always that they\'re both sins since no TBM want to actually admit which act has the more serious consequences.</p>\n<hr />\nGreg<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nI believe this is the single most psychologically damaging teaching in the Mormon church.\n<p>I know that I suffered terribly because of it. I was one of those who bought it all, yet I sinned, and fully believed that I was flawed beyond redemption because of these very teachings.</p>\n<p>I don\'t know if it was the guilt and shame, or the cog dis that caused such severe psychotic breaks, but there were times that I felt completely insane after having \"sinned\". My mind would race uncontrollably, I literally felt crazy for awhile, and believed I would end up institionalized, and I\'m somewhat surprised I didn\'t. I believe it left me with a form of PTSD that followed me into adulthood, though thankfully, I think I\'m mostly over it finally.</p>\n<p>Sorry, don\'t mean to derail the intent of the thread, but I can\'t talk about this topic without strong feelings attached to it.</p>\n<hr />\ncl2<br />\nI was told when I went to ask for some financial help<br />\nthat misusing God\'s money was second only to murder. Okay . . .\n<hr />\nDon Bagley<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nTo murder a child\'s self esteem by telling him he is wicked for his failure to believe.\n<hr />\nMJ<br />\nWell, that certainly is not good news for TSCC.\n<hr />\n<p>suzanne<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nHurting animals, I\'m no vegetarian but I think cruelty to animals is up there ahead of adultery... along with the other things mentioned. Interesting question!</p>\n<hr />\nginger<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nDuh, coffee!\n<hr />\n<p>archaeologymatters<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nThere is a level of child abuse associated with the lds church. It is a system of control where you are indoctrinated young to believe a certain way that is not natural. Few escape if they become true believers. Glad you did.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Bradley<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nThis is how Mormons end up killing people. If it\'s only a little worse than getting laid, what could be so bad about bumping people off?</p>\n<hr />\ndiableavecargent<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nYes.... This is bullshit. It is funny that the sin next to that is lying. So, as I think about it, there are some BIG gaps between these \"sins\" if they are to be next to each other in mormondom. While a tbm I spoke with the bishop about these sins, and the explanation about it playing with the creation and termination of life never set well, but I went with it. Now it is too absurd to not laugh at, in an emperor has no clothes sort of way.\n<hr />\nhellrazor<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\n-Using brainwashing to control people.<br />\n-rape<br />\n-abuse (especially to children)<br />\n-not stopping someone who does these<br />\n(And on a lighter note, but still next to murder . . .)<br />\n-talking at the theater.\n<hr />\n<p>Anon4this<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nThis brought back a memory that I think fits in here. The parents of the kids I was babysitting (family from our ward) came back from a Friday night movie. When they came back, I asked how they\'d liked the movie and what movie they\'d seen. They told me the title but I hadn\'t heard of it. Evidently, they mistook the blank expression on my face for shock (turns out it was a rated R movie). They then hurried to explain that there was no immorality in the movie, no sex ... it was just a lot of violence.</p>\n<p>I was probably around 15 or 16 ... so this was a lifetime ago but it struck me even back then as being a bit warped. Killing people, blood, violence and torture ... ya, that\'s really a lot more moral than two people making love.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>escapee<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nHurting or abusing my dog would be a big sin in my book. Fornicate your brains out, but don\'t you hurt my dog.</p>\n<p>Susan</p>\n<hr />\n<p>rhgc<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nDivorce.<br />\nThe ravages of divorce are much worse than any of the other evils and some of those, like masturbation, are not evil.<br />\nTSCC, instead of really standing for marriage, has within the very seeds of divorce because of the teachings which lead to family breakdown in many cases where one party sees the light and leave TSCC and the other is so indoctrinated as a TBM, they either start a divorce or act so badly the other is pushed to it.</p>\n<p>The very doctrine of eternal marriage as taught by TSCC leads to divorce because, after all, if one\'s spouse is unworthy, one should get rid of them because it prevents the celestial marriage promised by TSCC. TSCC also teaches that apostasy is a grounds for divorce.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>guynoirprivateeye<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nAGREE!</p>\n<p>this is the Premier Example of the difference between<br />\n\'what they say\' and What they do!</p>\n<p>next/other: you have orgasm, but your partner doesn\'t (vice versa)</p>\n<hr />\n<p>rander70<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nVery true. In D&amp;C 132 it claims that in order to practice polygamy, the man must receive consent from his current wife (or wives) first... otherwise it is cheating. What kind of \"prophet\" makes this claim, and doesn\'t practice it within his own terms? I bet he knew Emma would be upset, but more wives is what he wanted... so he went for it. He knows he cheated, so why don\'t TBMs?</p>\n<hr />\nrationalguy<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nAll I can say is that if masturbation is next to murder, I am next to a serial killer! lol\n<hr />\n<p>rander70<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nImpersonating a therapist for personal and financial gains...</p>\n<p>Asking a minor about his/her sex life behind closed doors and without a parent.</p>\n<p>You know, if they are going to claim any type of sex being bad, it should be rape because it is non-consensual and it hurts people. I guess I could see some sex as being bad if it is something like a one-night stand and the woman ends up getting pregnant, and the father doesnt want to stick around... that hurts the child and the mother. Sorry... Im not for one-night stands. Too dangerous. My rule is I will not have sex with someone who I have not been with for a long time, and I know wouldn\'t dump me if I happened to get pregnant.</p>\n<p>Oops... I rambled. sorry!</p>\n<hr />\n<p>forbiddencokedrinker<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nI think swindling people out of large amounts of money is a worse sin then masturbation.</p>\n<hr />\nxyz\n<hr />\nJL<br />\nThen most of my TBM male friends are on killing spree several times a week...&nbsp;\n<hr />\n<p>nefight<br />\nRe: the sin next to murder<br />\nThe part about that revelation about gaining consent from your other wives is well misunderstood even by many exmos. The actual revelation went on to state that if the first wife didn\'t consent then she would be subject to eternal damnation, he could then leave her if he wanted and/or go on and marry another woman anyway. The church tries to paint it in a very favorable light but to be quite frank, women had absolutely no rights or say in those days.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1493577544, expire = 1493663944, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:893f98488035d346236cf7955da09dd1' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

Another Day OlderJuly 2012

As most of you know, Mormonism teaches that consensual sexual sin (especially adultery, but also fornication, premarital sex, masturbation, etc.) is the sin next to murder

, based primarily on Alma 39:5, which states:

"Know ye not, my son, that these things are an abomination
in the sight of the Lord; yea, most abominable
above all sins save it be the shedding of innocent
blood or denying the Holy Ghost?"

What "sins" would you list as more serious than sexual sins, including arguably the most serious sexual sin of adultery? Here's a few to start with:

-torture of another human being
-child sex abuse
-rape
-arson
-assault with a deadly weapon

What would make your list of sins that are more serious that adultery?


MJ
Re: the sin next to murder
Making false claims about what god wants so the person can get what they want.

Hiding priests and others that molest children.

Owning slaves


archaeologymatters
Re: the sin next to murder
Further proof that Joseph Smith didn't believe his own religion. Even if you play the polygamy card, he was cheating on his wife before that.


Mia
Re: the sin next to murder
Using Gods name, and putting words in his mouth to rob, and control people.


blueorchid
Re: the sin next to murder
Barring your parents from your wedding.

Telling a ten year old that they are immoral.

Knowingly making anyone feel so worthless that they contemplate suicide.

Kicking someone when they are down for personal gain.

Wearing white after labor day. (Well... I always try to end on a high note.)


xophor
Re: the sin next to murder
I think TSCC makes it rather clear that gay sex is waaaaay worse than hetero sex. I may be wrong, but I think I read somewhere that after being exed, it's a three year wait for readmission after gay sex compared with the standard one year. Of course, there's surely a lot of variation with how this actually plays out in individual cases.

After my niece got knocked up at the end of her first year at BYUI, I posed a question to a family member asking which is worse: Two mutually consenting men having sex together, or a single woman getting pregnant and yanking a spirit out of the spirit world and into an incomplete family/home? Of course the answer is always that they're both sins since no TBM want to actually admit which act has the more serious consequences.


Greg
Re: the sin next to murder
I believe this is the single most psychologically damaging teaching in the Mormon church.

I know that I suffered terribly because of it. I was one of those who bought it all, yet I sinned, and fully believed that I was flawed beyond redemption because of these very teachings.

I don't know if it was the guilt and shame, or the cog dis that caused such severe psychotic breaks, but there were times that I felt completely insane after having "sinned". My mind would race uncontrollably, I literally felt crazy for awhile, and believed I would end up institionalized, and I'm somewhat surprised I didn't. I believe it left me with a form of PTSD that followed me into adulthood, though thankfully, I think I'm mostly over it finally.

Sorry, don't mean to derail the intent of the thread, but I can't talk about this topic without strong feelings attached to it.


cl2
I was told when I went to ask for some financial help
that misusing God's money was second only to murder. Okay . . .
Don Bagley
Re: the sin next to murder
To murder a child's self esteem by telling him he is wicked for his failure to believe.
MJ
Well, that certainly is not good news for TSCC.

suzanne
Re: the sin next to murder
Hurting animals, I'm no vegetarian but I think cruelty to animals is up there ahead of adultery... along with the other things mentioned. Interesting question!


ginger
Re: the sin next to murder
Duh, coffee!

archaeologymatters
Re: the sin next to murder
There is a level of child abuse associated with the lds church. It is a system of control where you are indoctrinated young to believe a certain way that is not natural. Few escape if they become true believers. Glad you did.


Bradley
Re: the sin next to murder
This is how Mormons end up killing people. If it's only a little worse than getting laid, what could be so bad about bumping people off?


diableavecargent
Re: the sin next to murder
Yes.... This is bullshit. It is funny that the sin next to that is lying. So, as I think about it, there are some BIG gaps between these "sins" if they are to be next to each other in mormondom. While a tbm I spoke with the bishop about these sins, and the explanation about it playing with the creation and termination of life never set well, but I went with it. Now it is too absurd to not laugh at, in an emperor has no clothes sort of way.
hellrazor
Re: the sin next to murder
-Using brainwashing to control people.
-rape
-abuse (especially to children)
-not stopping someone who does these
(And on a lighter note, but still next to murder . . .)
-talking at the theater.

Anon4this
Re: the sin next to murder
This brought back a memory that I think fits in here. The parents of the kids I was babysitting (family from our ward) came back from a Friday night movie. When they came back, I asked how they'd liked the movie and what movie they'd seen. They told me the title but I hadn't heard of it. Evidently, they mistook the blank expression on my face for shock (turns out it was a rated R movie). They then hurried to explain that there was no immorality in the movie, no sex ... it was just a lot of violence.

I was probably around 15 or 16 ... so this was a lifetime ago but it struck me even back then as being a bit warped. Killing people, blood, violence and torture ... ya, that's really a lot more moral than two people making love.


escapee
Re: the sin next to murder
Hurting or abusing my dog would be a big sin in my book. Fornicate your brains out, but don't you hurt my dog.

Susan


rhgc
Re: the sin next to murder
Divorce.
The ravages of divorce are much worse than any of the other evils and some of those, like masturbation, are not evil.
TSCC, instead of really standing for marriage, has within the very seeds of divorce because of the teachings which lead to family breakdown in many cases where one party sees the light and leave TSCC and the other is so indoctrinated as a TBM, they either start a divorce or act so badly the other is pushed to it.

The very doctrine of eternal marriage as taught by TSCC leads to divorce because, after all, if one's spouse is unworthy, one should get rid of them because it prevents the celestial marriage promised by TSCC. TSCC also teaches that apostasy is a grounds for divorce.


guynoirprivateeye
Re: the sin next to murder
AGREE!

this is the Premier Example of the difference between
'what they say' and What they do!

next/other: you have orgasm, but your partner doesn't (vice versa)


rander70
Re: the sin next to murder
Very true. In D&C 132 it claims that in order to practice polygamy, the man must receive consent from his current wife (or wives) first... otherwise it is cheating. What kind of "prophet" makes this claim, and doesn't practice it within his own terms? I bet he knew Emma would be upset, but more wives is what he wanted... so he went for it. He knows he cheated, so why don't TBMs?


rationalguy
Re: the sin next to murder
All I can say is that if masturbation is next to murder, I am next to a serial killer! lol

rander70
Re: the sin next to murder
Impersonating a therapist for personal and financial gains...

Asking a minor about his/her sex life behind closed doors and without a parent.

You know, if they are going to claim any type of sex being bad, it should be rape because it is non-consensual and it hurts people. I guess I could see some sex as being bad if it is something like a one-night stand and the woman ends up getting pregnant, and the father doesnt want to stick around... that hurts the child and the mother. Sorry... Im not for one-night stands. Too dangerous. My rule is I will not have sex with someone who I have not been with for a long time, and I know wouldn't dump me if I happened to get pregnant.

Oops... I rambled. sorry!


forbiddencokedrinker
Re: the sin next to murder
I think swindling people out of large amounts of money is a worse sin then masturbation.


xyz
JL
Then most of my TBM male friends are on killing spree several times a week... 

nefight
Re: the sin next to murder
The part about that revelation about gaining consent from your other wives is well misunderstood even by many exmos. The actual revelation went on to state that if the first wife didn't consent then she would be subject to eternal damnation, he could then leave her if he wanted and/or go on and marry another woman anyway. The church tries to paint it in a very favorable light but to be quite frank, women had absolutely no rights or say in those days.


"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"