Veils on Women in Mormon Temple: question

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>by yin Feb 2012</p>\n<p>I\'ve never been in the temple ceremony. I left before I was ever married/took out my endowments.<br />\nThe women wear veils. Do they actually cover their faces? Or is this a pre-1990 practice?</p>\n<p>For those of you who experienced this firsthand, men and women: Did you find it as degrading as I am imagining it is, seeing as how only the women would cover their faces and not the men?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>CA girl<br />\nRe: Veils on Women in Temple: question<br />\nYes, they actually cover their faces, even after 1990. I went through a month after they changed the endowment ceremony and the women veil their faces, but only during the prayer. About half a dozen men and half a dozen women make a circle around the alter and they make certain signs and tokens with their hands. The women veil their faces and the officiator says a prayer - a couple of sentences at a time - then the men and women repeat the prayer as it goes along. All the women in the room veil their faces while praying and when the prayer ends, the announcer tells the women they can unveil their faces and tells those in the prayer circle they can return to their seats. At the time, I didn\'t find it degrading - I was actually glad to have it to hide behind. I felt safer somehow. I never analyzed that feeling while in the temple but now I think it\'s because on some level the temple always creeped me out and being behind a veil made me feel safer.</p>\n<p>Here\'s a picture:</p>\n<p><a href=\"http://www.salamandersociety.com/proxy/051022three_faces_eve.jpg\" title=\"http://www.salamandersociety.com/proxy/051022three_faces_eve.jpg\">http://www.salamandersociety.com/proxy/051022three_faces_eve.jpg</a></p>\n<hr />\n<p>SusieQ#1<br />\nRe: Veils on Women in Temple: question<br />\nYes, the women are told to cover their face with their veil during the prayer circle. I always thought it was symbolic or reverence. Veils are used in other religious traditions, of course.</p>\n<p>My Catholic girl friends always had a tiny one in their pocket to wear when they entered their church for services. So I didn\'t think much of it.</p>\n<p>The main reason so much is uncomfortable, I think, is because the outfits/costuming is of another era, and is so uniform. Nothing much has been updated to be comfortable and acceptable to women now days.</p>\n<p>It was \"Dress-Ups\" time in the temple. Suddenly I was propelled back to the late 1800\'s in very drab uniform clothing. Didn\'t do much for any kind of spirituality though.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>cl2<br />\nIt never bothered me except that mine wouldn\'t stay on.<br />\nI would much rather wear the veil than that silly hat the men wear.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>quebec<br />\nRe: Veils on Women in Temple: question<br />\nCA GIRL said \"...At the time, I didn\'t find it degrading - I was actually glad to have it to hide behind. I felt safer somehow. I never analyzed that feeling while in the temple but now I think it\'s because on some level the temple always creeped me out and being behind a veil made me feel safer...\"</p>\n<p>Same thing for me. That\'s exactly how I felt.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>imalive<br />\nRe: Veils on Women in Temple: question<br />\nNow that I\'m disaffected, it wa weird going to the temple last year. I have gotten to the point where I HATE having to cover my face with the veil during the prayer circle. I deliberately didn\'t go into the circle. While I was sitting down, I used my arms to hold the veil from my face as far as possible. I felt so damn claustrophobic.</p>\n<hr />\nDoxi<br />\nRe: Veils on Women in Temple: question\n<p>But the Catholic girls only put the veil *on* their heads, SusieQ; they did not have to cover their faces!</p>\n<p>Isn\'t the only other religion where women put veils on to totally cover their faces Islam?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>itsallclear<br />\nRe: Veils on Women in Temple: question<br />\nI did not like it; I felt as though I had been put in a burka. It never made much sense to me why we had to cover our faces b/c if it was a sign of reverence, wouldn\'t we be required to cover our faces during prayer outside of the temple?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>elfling_not_logged_in<br />\nRe: Veils on Women in Temple: question<br />\nI asked the President of the Washington DC temple to explain the command that women veil their faces - after he failed to do so, he then told my husband to \"get me pregnant as quickly as possible, so that I would be too busy to ask questions.\"</p>\n<p>that is a Real Quote, and marks the point where I never went back.</p>\n<hr />\nSusieQ#1<br />\nRe: Veils on Women in Temple: question To clarify...\n<p>To clarify: I was not concerned at the time about how the veil was used. It was just a symbolic representative of reverence used in a religious edifice, that is ancient, in my understanding. Covering my face was was symbolic also. No big deal.<br />\nI don\'t find any use for any symbols of religious reference now days, but they are used, and have different meanings in different religious settings.</p>\n<p>I don\'t know if other religious groups have some symbolic meaning to covering the face, it probably has been done in other religions. Doesn\'t matter to me. It\'s their religious custom, tradition, ritual. It matters to them, not to me. Not anymore.</p>\n<hr />\nitsallclear<br />\nRe: Veils on Women in Temple: question<br />\nThat is messed.up.\n<hr />\nforbiddencokedrinker<br />\nRe: Veils on Women in Temple: question<br />\nActually, there is nothing in traditional Islam requiring a woman to veil her face. There was a single providence in Saudi Arabia where that was the cultural tradition, but it was an isolated one until the 1970s. At that time, the Arabic world was going through an identity crises. They had just lost to Israel yet again, poverty was out of control in their countries, and their rulers abused the people, while living lavish life styles. (I know, things are so different today)\n<p>Anyways, there was sort of a revolutionary spirit among radical Muslims, who gained popularity by blaming all their problems on the decadent influence of the west. The burka was born, not as an ancient religious symbol, but as a brand new political one. Muslims began to feel that if they made efforts to be even more righteous, to suppress individual rights even more in favor of their religion, then Allah would bless them, and all their problems would be solved.</p>\n<p>Before this time, life in the Middle East was a lot less strict then it was now. There were people who practiced strict forms of Islam, living alongside moderates, or now practitioners who dressed and acted as they wanted, and not as they were told.</p>\n<p>Anyways, you see similar movements inside the Church. As it becomes more apparent that they are no more blessed then any other person, and as they begin to see that their religion is actually holding them back, the radical TBMs will start to blame their own minor disobedience, rather then acknowledge that the church has failed them. It is why they now have to wear garments while doing yard work. Expect more nuttiness to come. It is the way of things.</p>\n<hr />\nSusieQ#1<br />\nRe: Veils on Women in Temple: question<br />\nI\'m just one of those women who was not disturbed by a flimsy white piece of thin fabric being flipped from the back over my face for a short time during a short prayer circle only held in the temple.\n<p>It\'s common for brides before the wedding ceremony also. There may be other traditional uses also.</p>\n<p>It was no big deal with me. Just a different opinion from a convert.</p>\n<hr />\nCA girl<br />\nRe: Veils on Women in Temple: question<br />\n...get you pregnant?? That has got to be the weirdest bit of Mormonism I\'ve read on this board all month. Unbelievable.\n<hr />\njan<br />\nRe: Veils on Women in Temple: question<br />\nEqually creepy is if a woman is buried in temple clothes, just before the coffin is closed, her face is covered with the veil. Nobody ever explained the significance to me.\n<hr />\nDallin A. Chokes<br />\nRe: Veils on Women in Temple: question<br />\nDon\'t ask the president of the D.C. Temple--he\'ll just tell you to get knocked up! :)\n<hr />\n<p>dk<br />\nRe: Veils on Women in Temple: question<br />\nI just pictured some guy wearing only garments doing yard work and cutting the grass on his riding lawn mower. Have many members asked about garments and yard work, or were they observed shirtless, I wonder?</p>\n<hr />\nFriend of a Mo<br />\nRe: Veils on Women in Temple: question<br />\nFrom the picture posted above, that doesn\'t look like any veil I have seen a bride wear. It looks like a sheet. Can you even see through it?\n<hr />\n<p>Mia<br />\nRe: Veils on Women in Temple: question<br />\nWhat a pig</p>\n<hr />\ntreehugger<br />\nRe: Veils on Women in Temple: question<br />\nYou can see through it, but just generalized shapes. You can tell a person is a person but you can\'t tell what their face looks like or if they\'re wearing glasses or have a big or small nose.\n<hr />\n<p>forbiddencokedrinker<br />\nRe: Veils on Women in Temple: question<br />\nI\'m not a woman, but of all the things I can be buried in, I hope Temple clothes are not among them. I actually worry, not like all the time, I don\'t obsess over it, that the religious nuts in my family will try to have this done, against my wishes. I remember growing up, that whenever possible, the church tried to have every endowed person so clothed, even if they had been excommunicated.</p>\n<hr />\nNYCGal<br />\nAbout the veil<br />\nWhen I found out about the veil, it horrified me nearly as much as finding out about the naked touching!\n<p>The veil seems like an archaic, sexist and very offensive practice. I was born and raised in the church, but come from a time when temple practices really were secret (not just sacred!). There was no internet. Years later, when I did find out about all of this, I as quite relieved that I married a non-member and left Utah at age 20.</p>\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1495763046, expire = 1495849446, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:2ce67f198be8834604b16bdfc942b51e' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

by yin Feb 2012

I've never been in the temple ceremony. I left before I was ever married/took out my endowments.
The women wear veils. Do they actually cover their faces? Or is this a pre-1990 practice?

For those of you who experienced this firsthand, men and women: Did you find it as degrading as I am imagining it is, seeing as how only the women would cover their faces and not the men?


CA girl
Re: Veils on Women in Temple: question
Yes, they actually cover their faces, even after 1990. I went through a month after they changed the endowment ceremony and the women veil their faces, but only during the prayer. About half a dozen men and half a dozen women make a circle around the alter and they make certain signs and tokens with their hands. The women veil their faces and the officiator says a prayer - a couple of sentences at a time - then the men and women repeat the prayer as it goes along. All the women in the room veil their faces while praying and when the prayer ends, the announcer tells the women they can unveil their faces and tells those in the prayer circle they can return to their seats. At the time, I didn't find it degrading - I was actually glad to have it to hide behind. I felt safer somehow. I never analyzed that feeling while in the temple but now I think it's because on some level the temple always creeped me out and being behind a veil made me feel safer.

Here's a picture:

http://www.salamandersociety.com/proxy/051022three_faces_eve.jpg


SusieQ#1
Re: Veils on Women in Temple: question
Yes, the women are told to cover their face with their veil during the prayer circle. I always thought it was symbolic or reverence. Veils are used in other religious traditions, of course.

My Catholic girl friends always had a tiny one in their pocket to wear when they entered their church for services. So I didn't think much of it.

The main reason so much is uncomfortable, I think, is because the outfits/costuming is of another era, and is so uniform. Nothing much has been updated to be comfortable and acceptable to women now days.

It was "Dress-Ups" time in the temple. Suddenly I was propelled back to the late 1800's in very drab uniform clothing. Didn't do much for any kind of spirituality though.


cl2
It never bothered me except that mine wouldn't stay on.
I would much rather wear the veil than that silly hat the men wear.


quebec
Re: Veils on Women in Temple: question
CA GIRL said "...At the time, I didn't find it degrading - I was actually glad to have it to hide behind. I felt safer somehow. I never analyzed that feeling while in the temple but now I think it's because on some level the temple always creeped me out and being behind a veil made me feel safer..."

Same thing for me. That's exactly how I felt.


imalive
Re: Veils on Women in Temple: question
Now that I'm disaffected, it wa weird going to the temple last year. I have gotten to the point where I HATE having to cover my face with the veil during the prayer circle. I deliberately didn't go into the circle. While I was sitting down, I used my arms to hold the veil from my face as far as possible. I felt so damn claustrophobic.


Doxi
Re: Veils on Women in Temple: question

But the Catholic girls only put the veil *on* their heads, SusieQ; they did not have to cover their faces!

Isn't the only other religion where women put veils on to totally cover their faces Islam?


itsallclear
Re: Veils on Women in Temple: question
I did not like it; I felt as though I had been put in a burka. It never made much sense to me why we had to cover our faces b/c if it was a sign of reverence, wouldn't we be required to cover our faces during prayer outside of the temple?


elfling_not_logged_in
Re: Veils on Women in Temple: question
I asked the President of the Washington DC temple to explain the command that women veil their faces - after he failed to do so, he then told my husband to "get me pregnant as quickly as possible, so that I would be too busy to ask questions."

that is a Real Quote, and marks the point where I never went back.


SusieQ#1
Re: Veils on Women in Temple: question To clarify...

To clarify: I was not concerned at the time about how the veil was used. It was just a symbolic representative of reverence used in a religious edifice, that is ancient, in my understanding. Covering my face was was symbolic also. No big deal.
I don't find any use for any symbols of religious reference now days, but they are used, and have different meanings in different religious settings.

I don't know if other religious groups have some symbolic meaning to covering the face, it probably has been done in other religions. Doesn't matter to me. It's their religious custom, tradition, ritual. It matters to them, not to me. Not anymore.


itsallclear
Re: Veils on Women in Temple: question
That is messed.up.
forbiddencokedrinker
Re: Veils on Women in Temple: question
Actually, there is nothing in traditional Islam requiring a woman to veil her face. There was a single providence in Saudi Arabia where that was the cultural tradition, but it was an isolated one until the 1970s. At that time, the Arabic world was going through an identity crises. They had just lost to Israel yet again, poverty was out of control in their countries, and their rulers abused the people, while living lavish life styles. (I know, things are so different today)

Anyways, there was sort of a revolutionary spirit among radical Muslims, who gained popularity by blaming all their problems on the decadent influence of the west. The burka was born, not as an ancient religious symbol, but as a brand new political one. Muslims began to feel that if they made efforts to be even more righteous, to suppress individual rights even more in favor of their religion, then Allah would bless them, and all their problems would be solved.

Before this time, life in the Middle East was a lot less strict then it was now. There were people who practiced strict forms of Islam, living alongside moderates, or now practitioners who dressed and acted as they wanted, and not as they were told.

Anyways, you see similar movements inside the Church. As it becomes more apparent that they are no more blessed then any other person, and as they begin to see that their religion is actually holding them back, the radical TBMs will start to blame their own minor disobedience, rather then acknowledge that the church has failed them. It is why they now have to wear garments while doing yard work. Expect more nuttiness to come. It is the way of things.


SusieQ#1
Re: Veils on Women in Temple: question
I'm just one of those women who was not disturbed by a flimsy white piece of thin fabric being flipped from the back over my face for a short time during a short prayer circle only held in the temple.

It's common for brides before the wedding ceremony also. There may be other traditional uses also.

It was no big deal with me. Just a different opinion from a convert.


CA girl
Re: Veils on Women in Temple: question
...get you pregnant?? That has got to be the weirdest bit of Mormonism I've read on this board all month. Unbelievable.
jan
Re: Veils on Women in Temple: question
Equally creepy is if a woman is buried in temple clothes, just before the coffin is closed, her face is covered with the veil. Nobody ever explained the significance to me.
Dallin A. Chokes
Re: Veils on Women in Temple: question
Don't ask the president of the D.C. Temple--he'll just tell you to get knocked up! :)

dk
Re: Veils on Women in Temple: question
I just pictured some guy wearing only garments doing yard work and cutting the grass on his riding lawn mower. Have many members asked about garments and yard work, or were they observed shirtless, I wonder?


Friend of a Mo
Re: Veils on Women in Temple: question
From the picture posted above, that doesn't look like any veil I have seen a bride wear. It looks like a sheet. Can you even see through it?

Mia
Re: Veils on Women in Temple: question
What a pig


treehugger
Re: Veils on Women in Temple: question
You can see through it, but just generalized shapes. You can tell a person is a person but you can't tell what their face looks like or if they're wearing glasses or have a big or small nose.

forbiddencokedrinker
Re: Veils on Women in Temple: question
I'm not a woman, but of all the things I can be buried in, I hope Temple clothes are not among them. I actually worry, not like all the time, I don't obsess over it, that the religious nuts in my family will try to have this done, against my wishes. I remember growing up, that whenever possible, the church tried to have every endowed person so clothed, even if they had been excommunicated.


NYCGal
About the veil
When I found out about the veil, it horrified me nearly as much as finding out about the naked touching!

The veil seems like an archaic, sexist and very offensive practice. I was born and raised in the church, but come from a time when temple practices really were secret (not just sacred!). There was no internet. Years later, when I did find out about all of this, I as quite relieved that I married a non-member and left Utah at age 20.

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"