Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>64monkey May 2014</p>\n<p>I just got done reading some quotes form Bruce R. and my conclusion is he was truly just a racist. Hardly a man called of a loving God into a so called true church.</p>\n<p>Any other thoughts on the subject of good old Bruce?</p>\n<p>And why would people buy into this hate if they believe in Jesus Christ teachings.</p>\n<p>Any thoughts on his book the Mormon doctrine as well?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>ConcernedCitizen<br />\nRe: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie</p>\n<p>...it would appear he envisioned himself as the Joseph Goebbels of the Church. He claimed authority to speak for the Church, but actually embarrassed the whole lot of em\'.........go figure. Just another so-called \"Apostle\" writing more pulp-fiction..........</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Chump<br />\nRe: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie</p>\n<p>He was truly one of the noble and great ones. Just open up Mormon Doctrine. Pure wisdom flows from every page. I just opened to page 15 to find this treasure:</p>\n<p>\"In the beginning God gave Adam a language that was pure, perfect, and undefiled. This Adamic<br />\nlanguage, now unknown, was far superior to any tongue which is presently extant. For instance, the name<br />\nof God the Father, in this original language, is Man of Holiness, signifying that he is a Holy Man and not a<br />\nvague spiritual essence. (Moses 6:57.)<br />\nThis first language spoken by mortals was either the celestial tongue of the Gods or such adaptation of<br />\nit as was necessary to meet the limitations of mortality; and Adam and his posterity had power to speak,<br />\nread, and write it. (Way to Perfection, pp. 60-69.) In writing of the saints in the day of the first man,<br />\nMoses says: \"And a book of remembrance was kept, in the language of Adam, for it was given unto as<br />\nmany as called upon God to write by the spirit of inspiration; And by them their children were taught to<br />\nread and write, having a language which was pure and undefiled.\" (Moses 6:5-6.) The beauty and power<br />\nof this Adamic language is indicated by a statement made by Moroni to the Lord about the Brother of<br />\nJared (who spoke the original and pure language): \"Thou madest him that the things which he wrote were<br />\nmighty even as thou art unto the overpowering of man to read them.\" (Ether 12:24.)<br />\nDuring the millennium, it appears that men will again have power to speak and write the Adamic<br />\nlanguage. Of that day the Lord says he will \"turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon<br />\nthe name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.\" (Zeph. 3:9.) In some instances when the saints<br />\nspeak in tongues, the language impressed upon them by the power of the Spirit is the pure Adamic tongue.\"</p>\n<p>How could Bruce have known this 50+ years ago? Archeologists, historians, and linguists have since confirmed that all this is true. Humans have been reading and writing since they were first placed on this earth, and only one perfect language was spoken for the first 2,000 years of mortal existence.</p>\n<p>To his last point, have you ever heard evangelicals speak in tongues? Yes, it sounds like pure incoherent psycho-babble, but it is the pure Adamic tongue. Yes, by the power of the Spirit it has been shown to me that God sounds like a lunatic, and I can too one day.</p>\n<hr />\namos2<br />\nHe idolized authority\n<p>He was proud of what is plainly revealed in scripture.<br />\nHe was alot more honest than the corporate backpeddlers and sidesteppers today. He lauded what past prophets spoke. He championed classical post-manifesto authoritarian Mormonism...in all its racist fascist misogynistic nakedness.<br />\nAnd was narcissistically insane.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>stillburned<br />\nRe: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie</p>\n<p>My thoughts? There\'s no more \"anti-Mormon literature\" than McConkie\'s \"Mormon Doctrine.\" But, he WAS honest about what he believed and what TSCC [this so called church] really taught.</p>\n<hr />\nbrandywine<br />\nRe: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie\n<p>Even as a TBM I thought he was a brick shy of a load. I still believe he\'s crazy.</p>\n<hr />\nanonforaday<br />\nRe: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie\n<p>One of his kids lives in my ward. I don\'t want to identify to much info because I am still closeted, but everytime this person opens their mouth to talk about daddy or grandpa Joseph Feilding Smith everyone swoons over them. Oooooo... they are always talking about what it like to have been raised by such righteous men, blah, blah, blah.</p>\n<p>Just as they were passing a law to allow gays to be married here in Utah,Bruce R McConkie\'s child gave a talk in church advocating joining upcoming protests against gay marriage. They started out by saying that its normally not good to talk about politics over the pulpit, however they feel that it is very important to to talk about this subject snd that we must fight for traditional marriage. This was very upsetting to me and a couple who were there visiting with me.</p>\n<p>Pathetic and despicable are the words that come to mind. Ugh</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Anon222<br />\nRe: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie</p>\n<p>I had a professor at BYU tell me this - while the professor was on his mission in Japan (early 1970s I believe) McConkie toured the mission and interviewed all the missionaries. When the professor went in for his interview he sat down and without any greeting or anything McConkie asked him, \"When was the last time you masturbated?\" The professor was shocked. LOL. Afterwards the professor talked to other missionaries and for all of them McConkie had asked the same first question.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>sizterh<br />\nRe: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie</p>\n<p>I started reading \"Mormon Doctrine\" when I was sixteen. It raised a lot of questions. I\'d ask my mom and she\'d tell me. \"Oh, I don\'t know that we think that,\" or \"that sounds like it is just his thoughts.\"</p>\n<p>I did not understand how else to find out what we believed. In church when I learned that the curse of Cain was dark skin, that was dismissed at home. When I learned the earth was made from parts of other planets, that was dismissed also.</p>\n<p>If you can\'t learn what we teach at church or from books put out by the church then I guess you go around with a large shelf and little thinking. Blindly changing what you believe on a moments notice. That was not something I could do.</p>\n<p>\"Mormon Doctrine\" had a lot to do with my exit, thanks Bruce!</p>\n<hr />\nbrandywine<br />\nRe: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie\n<p>Nice to know Mormon Doctrine has done some good.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>satanslittlehelper<br />\nMission Memory</p>\n<p>Bruce spoke to us when I was a missionary‚Ķor rather he yelled at us. He asked who we thought the lard loved more, the pope in Rome or the prophet. When one of the missionaries responded that he thought gawd loved us all the same,he shouted that the answer was typical sectarian nonsense. He was an arrogant asshole.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>jiminycricket<br />\nBruce R. McConkie, An-Asshat-Autocrat</p>\n<p>McConkie took his authority to the extreme max (e.g. his interaction with LDS professor Eugene England). That story is a great read:<br />\n<a href=\"http://www.eugeneengland.org/a-professor-and-apostle-correspond-eugene-england-and-bruce-r-mcconkie-on-the-nature-of-god\" title=\"http://www.eugeneengland.org/a-professor-and-apostle-correspond-eugene-england-and-bruce-r-mcconkie-on-the-nature-of-god\">http://www.eugeneengland.org/a-professor-and-apostle-correspond-eugene-e...</a></p>\n<p>In the letter McConkie sent to professor England are some juicy statements. One such unequivocal-veritable-utterance is:</p>\n<p>. . . \"It is my province to teach to the Church what the doctrine is. It is your province to echo what I say or to remain silent.\" (Bruce R. McConkie, 1981)</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Templar<br />\nRe: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie</p>\n<p>I had two GA interviews for my mission. One with S. Dilworth Young was more of a conversation. Brother Young pointed out that it was an honor to be called, the good and bad I will likely experience, etc. All in all, a very pleasant experience.</p>\n<p>The other with Bruce R. was a lecture and interrogation. He was cold and distant. He went on and on about the evils of masturbation, my responsibility to God, etc. I would say that of all my Mormon interviews over the years it was by far the most distressing.</p>\n<hr />\nfuneraltaters<br />\nRe: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie\n<p>I can claim the proud distinction of being related to this guy. My paternal grandmother is either first or second cousins with him. She is very tbm and this is a great source of pride for her. Poor old grandma. She\'s dedicated her whole life to a lie. So have my parents, my other 3 grandparents and generations of my family before them. Its shocking to me that the mormon church has been in my family for nearly 160 years, and I\'m among the first to wake up and say: \"you know what, this is all a bunch of made up bullshit!\" Thank you internet, I guess.</p>\n<hr />\ndimmesdale<br />\nKnew his son...\n<p>He thought he had all the answers to everything. In the same ward was a high-thinker with a PhD. His wife told me that her husband only felt comfortable talking to McConkie\'s son because they were on the same level intellectually and spiritually.<br />\nThis was in a very well-educated ward. Both of them were phonies and climbers.<br />\nIt was quite revolting.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Reality Check<br />\nRe: Bruce R. McConkie, An-Asshat-Autocrat</p>\n<p>McConkie says:</p>\n<p>. . . \"It is my province to teach to the Church what the doctrine is. It is your province to echo what I say or to remain silent.\" (Bruce R. McConkie, 1981)\"</p>\n<p>Let\'s cut old Bruce some slack here. How is his statement really any different from what Boyd K. Packer, Dallin Oaks, or Jeffrey Holland would say today?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>sonoma<br />\nRe: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie</p>\n<p>He embarrassed them only because he published what they actually taught and believed.</p>\n<hr />\nTemplar<br />\nRe: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie<br />\nExactly.\n<p>I was living in SLC when MD was first published in 1958. It wasn\'t what Bruce said that was upsetting. It was that HE SAID IT IN PRINT.</p>\n<p>The story is that the brethren tried to get him to change some parts, but he initially refused since what he said was true MORMON DOCTRINE being taught at that time.</p>\n<hr />\nJilly<br />\nRe: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie\n<p>He spoke (no, YELLED) at a stake conference in B\'ham in 1976. That was the day I learned that not all Mormons are soft-spoken. Those in attendance were looking at him in awe. He sounded like every other fire and brimstone-spouting preacher in the south.</p>\n<p>I don\'t recall what he talked about, just that he was tall, wore glasses and shouted. And that he looked like a complete arse-hole.</p>\n<hr />\nBamboozled\n<p>So if Mormon Doctrine is/was not really official Mormon Doctrine<br />\nthen what the hell IS Mormon Doctrine, anyway?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>ConcernedCitizen<br />\nRe: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie</p>\n<p>...yep. Plus, I would LOVE to hear a hard-core, old-school Sacrament talk exclusively referencing that book today!!...........<br />\n...how long would it take for the BP to jerk that poor fool off the pulpit? Might as well quote the JoD.</p>\n<hr />\nOzDoc<br />\nRe: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie\n<p>Posted this before. When I was a small child he was the mission president over our distant and sparse district.</p>\n<p>He terrified me. I have not been near TSCC or Mormons for decades but the mere mention of his name brings up the image of this craggy,cold ,egotistical man with ill fitting suit,flattop haircut and huge glasses gripping the podium with his knuckles whitened and screaming at the congregation.</p>\n<p>Then there was his equally cold,sour mouse of a wife. I once used the adjective \"acidulated \" for her.Everyone fawned on her as she was Joseph Fielding Smith\'s daughter but Bruce R. left no-one in doubt that he was more of a theological giant than his FIL.Now I can feel some sympathy for the poor woman as I can see that she was just an empty shell.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Lethbridge Reprobate<br />\nRe: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie</p>\n<p>I can only imagine how I would have reacted to his interrogating had I been coerced into going on a mission. I recon I\'d have been sent home....and/or arrested...or both.</p>\n<p>Ron Burr</p>\n<hr />\njpt<br />\nRe: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie\n<p>Years ago I was at the bookstore near the Oakland Temple, and I bought McConkie\'s \"New Testament Commentary\" (vol 1). The counter lady said, \"You\'re in luck. Elder McConkie was here last week, and he signed all his books. Sure enough, I have his signature in the book.</p>\n<p>And much more recently, I outlived some of my TBM relatives and inherited a first edition \"Mormon Doctrine.\"</p>\n<p>That\'s all.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>apikoros<br />\nRe: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie</p>\n<p>Like OzDoc, I lived in a \"distant and sparse district\" of McConkie\'s mission - perhaps the same district. What a piece of work he was! He used to try talking us to death at District Conferences with a high-sounding repertoire of scriptural stories and references. He generally lost me after about five minutes [I was an impatient 20-year old] and the last hour and a half of his talk would be just a test of endurance.</p>\n<p>Nothing pleasant to say about him - he was at least as cold and distant as his esteemed Father-in-Law, and I chose to neither know him nor to miss him after he and I both left Australia.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1495668371, expire = 1495754771, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:ba8b881fe0693ae3a2122e1082519880' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

64monkey May 2014

I just got done reading some quotes form Bruce R. and my conclusion is he was truly just a racist. Hardly a man called of a loving God into a so called true church.

Any other thoughts on the subject of good old Bruce?

And why would people buy into this hate if they believe in Jesus Christ teachings.

Any thoughts on his book the Mormon doctrine as well?


ConcernedCitizen
Re: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie

...it would appear he envisioned himself as the Joseph Goebbels of the Church. He claimed authority to speak for the Church, but actually embarrassed the whole lot of em'.........go figure. Just another so-called "Apostle" writing more pulp-fiction..........


Chump
Re: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie

He was truly one of the noble and great ones. Just open up Mormon Doctrine. Pure wisdom flows from every page. I just opened to page 15 to find this treasure:

"In the beginning God gave Adam a language that was pure, perfect, and undefiled. This Adamic
language, now unknown, was far superior to any tongue which is presently extant. For instance, the name
of God the Father, in this original language, is Man of Holiness, signifying that he is a Holy Man and not a
vague spiritual essence. (Moses 6:57.)
This first language spoken by mortals was either the celestial tongue of the Gods or such adaptation of
it as was necessary to meet the limitations of mortality; and Adam and his posterity had power to speak,
read, and write it. (Way to Perfection, pp. 60-69.) In writing of the saints in the day of the first man,
Moses says: "And a book of remembrance was kept, in the language of Adam, for it was given unto as
many as called upon God to write by the spirit of inspiration; And by them their children were taught to
read and write, having a language which was pure and undefiled." (Moses 6:5-6.) The beauty and power
of this Adamic language is indicated by a statement made by Moroni to the Lord about the Brother of
Jared (who spoke the original and pure language): "Thou madest him that the things which he wrote were
mighty even as thou art unto the overpowering of man to read them." (Ether 12:24.)
During the millennium, it appears that men will again have power to speak and write the Adamic
language. Of that day the Lord says he will "turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon
the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent." (Zeph. 3:9.) In some instances when the saints
speak in tongues, the language impressed upon them by the power of the Spirit is the pure Adamic tongue."

How could Bruce have known this 50+ years ago? Archeologists, historians, and linguists have since confirmed that all this is true. Humans have been reading and writing since they were first placed on this earth, and only one perfect language was spoken for the first 2,000 years of mortal existence.

To his last point, have you ever heard evangelicals speak in tongues? Yes, it sounds like pure incoherent psycho-babble, but it is the pure Adamic tongue. Yes, by the power of the Spirit it has been shown to me that God sounds like a lunatic, and I can too one day.


amos2
He idolized authority

He was proud of what is plainly revealed in scripture.
He was alot more honest than the corporate backpeddlers and sidesteppers today. He lauded what past prophets spoke. He championed classical post-manifesto authoritarian Mormonism...in all its racist fascist misogynistic nakedness.
And was narcissistically insane.


stillburned
Re: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie

My thoughts? There's no more "anti-Mormon literature" than McConkie's "Mormon Doctrine." But, he WAS honest about what he believed and what TSCC [this so called church] really taught.


brandywine
Re: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie

Even as a TBM I thought he was a brick shy of a load. I still believe he's crazy.


anonforaday
Re: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie

One of his kids lives in my ward. I don't want to identify to much info because I am still closeted, but everytime this person opens their mouth to talk about daddy or grandpa Joseph Feilding Smith everyone swoons over them. Oooooo... they are always talking about what it like to have been raised by such righteous men, blah, blah, blah.

Just as they were passing a law to allow gays to be married here in Utah,Bruce R McConkie's child gave a talk in church advocating joining upcoming protests against gay marriage. They started out by saying that its normally not good to talk about politics over the pulpit, however they feel that it is very important to to talk about this subject snd that we must fight for traditional marriage. This was very upsetting to me and a couple who were there visiting with me.

Pathetic and despicable are the words that come to mind. Ugh


Anon222
Re: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie

I had a professor at BYU tell me this - while the professor was on his mission in Japan (early 1970s I believe) McConkie toured the mission and interviewed all the missionaries. When the professor went in for his interview he sat down and without any greeting or anything McConkie asked him, "When was the last time you masturbated?" The professor was shocked. LOL. Afterwards the professor talked to other missionaries and for all of them McConkie had asked the same first question.


sizterh
Re: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie

I started reading "Mormon Doctrine" when I was sixteen. It raised a lot of questions. I'd ask my mom and she'd tell me. "Oh, I don't know that we think that," or "that sounds like it is just his thoughts."

I did not understand how else to find out what we believed. In church when I learned that the curse of Cain was dark skin, that was dismissed at home. When I learned the earth was made from parts of other planets, that was dismissed also.

If you can't learn what we teach at church or from books put out by the church then I guess you go around with a large shelf and little thinking. Blindly changing what you believe on a moments notice. That was not something I could do.

"Mormon Doctrine" had a lot to do with my exit, thanks Bruce!


brandywine
Re: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie

Nice to know Mormon Doctrine has done some good.


satanslittlehelper
Mission Memory

Bruce spoke to us when I was a missionary…or rather he yelled at us. He asked who we thought the lard loved more, the pope in Rome or the prophet. When one of the missionaries responded that he thought gawd loved us all the same,he shouted that the answer was typical sectarian nonsense. He was an arrogant asshole.


jiminycricket
Bruce R. McConkie, An-Asshat-Autocrat

McConkie took his authority to the extreme max (e.g. his interaction with LDS professor Eugene England). That story is a great read:
http://www.eugeneengland.org/a-professor-and-apostle-correspond-eugene-e...

In the letter McConkie sent to professor England are some juicy statements. One such unequivocal-veritable-utterance is:

. . . "It is my province to teach to the Church what the doctrine is. It is your province to echo what I say or to remain silent." (Bruce R. McConkie, 1981)


Templar
Re: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie

I had two GA interviews for my mission. One with S. Dilworth Young was more of a conversation. Brother Young pointed out that it was an honor to be called, the good and bad I will likely experience, etc. All in all, a very pleasant experience.

The other with Bruce R. was a lecture and interrogation. He was cold and distant. He went on and on about the evils of masturbation, my responsibility to God, etc. I would say that of all my Mormon interviews over the years it was by far the most distressing.


funeraltaters
Re: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie

I can claim the proud distinction of being related to this guy. My paternal grandmother is either first or second cousins with him. She is very tbm and this is a great source of pride for her. Poor old grandma. She's dedicated her whole life to a lie. So have my parents, my other 3 grandparents and generations of my family before them. Its shocking to me that the mormon church has been in my family for nearly 160 years, and I'm among the first to wake up and say: "you know what, this is all a bunch of made up bullshit!" Thank you internet, I guess.


dimmesdale
Knew his son...

He thought he had all the answers to everything. In the same ward was a high-thinker with a PhD. His wife told me that her husband only felt comfortable talking to McConkie's son because they were on the same level intellectually and spiritually.
This was in a very well-educated ward. Both of them were phonies and climbers.
It was quite revolting.


Reality Check
Re: Bruce R. McConkie, An-Asshat-Autocrat

McConkie says:

. . . "It is my province to teach to the Church what the doctrine is. It is your province to echo what I say or to remain silent." (Bruce R. McConkie, 1981)"

Let's cut old Bruce some slack here. How is his statement really any different from what Boyd K. Packer, Dallin Oaks, or Jeffrey Holland would say today?


sonoma
Re: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie

He embarrassed them only because he published what they actually taught and believed.


Templar
Re: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie
Exactly.

I was living in SLC when MD was first published in 1958. It wasn't what Bruce said that was upsetting. It was that HE SAID IT IN PRINT.

The story is that the brethren tried to get him to change some parts, but he initially refused since what he said was true MORMON DOCTRINE being taught at that time.


Jilly
Re: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie

He spoke (no, YELLED) at a stake conference in B'ham in 1976. That was the day I learned that not all Mormons are soft-spoken. Those in attendance were looking at him in awe. He sounded like every other fire and brimstone-spouting preacher in the south.

I don't recall what he talked about, just that he was tall, wore glasses and shouted. And that he looked like a complete arse-hole.


Bamboozled

So if Mormon Doctrine is/was not really official Mormon Doctrine
then what the hell IS Mormon Doctrine, anyway?


ConcernedCitizen
Re: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie

...yep. Plus, I would LOVE to hear a hard-core, old-school Sacrament talk exclusively referencing that book today!!...........
...how long would it take for the BP to jerk that poor fool off the pulpit? Might as well quote the JoD.


OzDoc
Re: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie

Posted this before. When I was a small child he was the mission president over our distant and sparse district.

He terrified me. I have not been near TSCC or Mormons for decades but the mere mention of his name brings up the image of this craggy,cold ,egotistical man with ill fitting suit,flattop haircut and huge glasses gripping the podium with his knuckles whitened and screaming at the congregation.

Then there was his equally cold,sour mouse of a wife. I once used the adjective "acidulated " for her.Everyone fawned on her as she was Joseph Fielding Smith's daughter but Bruce R. left no-one in doubt that he was more of a theological giant than his FIL.Now I can feel some sympathy for the poor woman as I can see that she was just an empty shell.


Lethbridge Reprobate
Re: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie

I can only imagine how I would have reacted to his interrogating had I been coerced into going on a mission. I recon I'd have been sent home....and/or arrested...or both.

Ron Burr


jpt
Re: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie

Years ago I was at the bookstore near the Oakland Temple, and I bought McConkie's "New Testament Commentary" (vol 1). The counter lady said, "You're in luck. Elder McConkie was here last week, and he signed all his books. Sure enough, I have his signature in the book.

And much more recently, I outlived some of my TBM relatives and inherited a first edition "Mormon Doctrine."

That's all.


apikoros
Re: Thoughts on Bruce R. McConkie

Like OzDoc, I lived in a "distant and sparse district" of McConkie's mission - perhaps the same district. What a piece of work he was! He used to try talking us to death at District Conferences with a high-sounding repertoire of scriptural stories and references. He generally lost me after about five minutes [I was an impatient 20-year old] and the last hour and a half of his talk would be just a test of endurance.

Nothing pleasant to say about him - he was at least as cold and distant as his esteemed Father-in-Law, and I chose to neither know him nor to miss him after he and I both left Australia.


"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"