This just in: new tithing slips Feb 2012

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>By Dallin A. Chokes</p>\n<p>Printed on the slip: \"Though reasonable efforts will be made globally to use donations as designated, all donations become the Church\'s property and will be used at the Church\'s sole discretion to further the Church\'s overall mission.\" So, the days when you thought you could give to a good cause (i.e., NOT tithing) and hope it would end up somewhere good (Perpetual Education? Fast Offerings?) are now over. Here\'s my money...let\'s hope you do something good with it.</p>\n<p>Sorry if this is a re-post of information, but I just saw this yesterday (as my wife is still fully committed to paying a crapload of our money--yes, on gross--to the church).</p>\n<p>New stuff: no more \"address\" section--replaced with \"Membership Record Number\" section.</p>\n<p>Five categories: Tithing (of course), Fast offering, General missionary, Ward missionary (?), Humanitarian aid, and Other (specify).</p>\n<p>The most intriguing part came at the end. I need to dig up old slips to see what it used to say, but here it is:</p>\n<p>\"Though reasonable efforts will be made globally to use donations as designated, all donations become the Church\'s property and will be used at the Church\'s sole discretion to further the Church\'s overall mission.\"</p>\n<p>So, the days when you thought you could give to a good cause (i.e., NOT tithing) and hope it would end up somewhere good (Perpetual Education? Fast Offerings?) are now over. Here\'s my money...let\'s hope you do something good with it.</p>\n<hr />\nangsty<br />\nWhich means that<br />\nthey really shouldn\'t be running around saying that tithing money wasn\'t used for this or that mall or hotel.\n<hr />\n<p>WiserWomanNow<br />\nTranslation:<br />\n“Once you sheeple find out how we REALLY have been spending your tithing &amp; donations and you demand an explanation, we’ll just indignantly point to this little statement on the tithing slip, as though WE are the injured and well-justified party.”</p>\n<hr />\nguynoirprivateeye<br />\nRe: This just in: new tithing slips.<br />\n(outside wisdom?)\n<p>That\'s the beauty of GIVING something away;</p>\n<p>suppose you gift a holiday (christmas, birthday, etc) gift to a relative, and the relative turns around &amp; Trashes it...</p>\n<p>do you own any interest in it? NO, no you don\'t.</p>\n<p>it\'s the choice of the donee.</p>\n<p>but in Most situations (hopefully) there isn\'t coercion to make the next gift. This, of course, isn\'t the case with ChurchCo.</p>\n<p>money is fungible, it can be used wherever it goes, wherever it\'s needed. IF the donors believe enough to give.... Don\'t they believe enough to Give Up concern for the funds? I hope so.</p>\n<p>Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 08:35PM by guynoirprivateeye.</p>\n<p>grubbygert<br />\nRe: This just in: new tithing slips.<br />\nthey aren\'t even trying to hide it anymore</p>\n<p>i can just see them getting together and saying,\"wait, wait, wait, i got it - lets tell them we can use the money for the mall and see how many of them are too dumb to figure it out - i mean, we put the damn mall right across the street from the temple and they STILL give us money! is this a sweet gig, or what?\"</p>\n<hr />\n<p>sivab1<br />\nRe: This just in: new tithing slips.<br />\nI am curious about how they used \"Church\'s overall mission.\" I can almost see Monson swiveling around petting a cat. It is interesting how they didn\'t say something along the lines of \"the Lord\'s work\". I guess they are being more honest with their statement. I wonder how many people will actually question what that mission is exactley.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>baura<br />\nRe: This just in: new tithing slips.<br />\nRemember when GBH said in a media interview how the Church doesn\'t report its finances to the public but lets the members know? Ha ha ha ha ha ha! What a cut up!</p>\n<hr />\n<p>FreeRose<br />\nThe \"Church\'s Mission\"<br />\nYou know, 5 star hotels, golf courses, billion dollar malls, expensive dinners, ... blah, blah, blah. They are, after all, the Lord\'s annointed.</p>\n<p>TBM\'s are scraping by, paying for missions, cleaning toilets, and they live in the lap of luxury. \"To the private jet, James. Hawaii here I come!.\"</p>\n<p>FOLLOW THE MONEY. OH, YEAH, NOT!</p>\n<hr />\nPtLoma<br />\nDirected giving<br />\nMany people leave large sums to a school or art museum or zoo, sometimes on an unrestricted basis, but often on a restricted/directed basis. When it\'s the latter, the recipient is legally bound to honor the donor\'s request. If I leave $50K to the San Diego Zoo to build a new koala exhibit (assuming they are raising/recruiting funds for such a facility), they are not allowed to use it to build a new gift shop.\n<p>What the LDS tithing slip states, in essence, is that all donations to them are unrestricted, even if you check the box directing your donation to one cause (Fast Offering vs Tithing vs. Humanitarian aid) or another.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Joe Laban<br />\nRe: This just in: new tithing slips.<br />\nCheck out this...</p>\n<p><a href=\"https://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.php?10136-Received-unusual-donation-slips-with-tithing-envelopes\" title=\"https://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.php?10136-Received-unusual-donation-slips-with-tithing-envelopes\">https://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.php?10136-Received-unusual-donatio...</a></p>\n<p>It has mixed explanations. Oaks must be involved in this with the other church attorneys. This is not a good sign for the faithful.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>FreeRose<br />\nWow.<br />\nLooks like the new slips took everyone by surprise. Kinda like the temple changes - no advanced warning at all. \"Changes, what changes?\"</p>\n<hr />\nSmiling Dog<br />\nRe: This just in: new tithing slips.<br />\nI wonder what the Priesthood directive will say concerning this? What language will be used to dissuage any concerns the members may have, while still maintaining the very clear message on the slips themselves? Remember, after Hinckly said he didn\'t know that they teach about men becoming gods, all it took to calm down the mormon masses was a brief mention in GC about how some things get taken out of context by the press. Hook, line and sinker, they took it. I imagine they will do the same with whatever bullshit is fed to them about this...\n<hr />\n<p>PtLoma<br />\nRe: Directed giving<br />\nIt\'s taken quite seriously in the non-LDS world.</p>\n<p>I know of a situation in my town where a lady left $1 million to the local old Spanish mission for restoration of historic buildings inside the mission museum complex (note: the lady wasn\'t even Catholic but she believed in historic preservation). The pastor of the affiliated mission Catholic parish tried to use it to gussy up the interior of his (non-historic) adjacent church and was stopped by the executors, who correctly pointed out that the money was intended for restoration of historic buildings, not for luxury upgrades to the new church interior.</p>\n<p>Also, people who donate enough money to a university to endow a scholarship get detailed financial info of the investment trust and disbursement of funds. Likewise, I had a great-aunt who left &gt;$1,000,000 to UCLA medical center for cancer research. Money was placed in trust to fund salaries for researchers. My aunt (her nearest surviving relative) is given detailed financial reports re: the current value of the fund and disbursements. My aunt lives on the East Coast and is occasionally invited (once a year or two) to attend a recognition luncheon for major donors or their families. She can\'t always attend, but I assure you that my great-aunt\'s money didn\'t pay for a dorm or a gymnasium.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>PtLoma<br />\nRe: Directed giving<br />\nAlso, in my Episcopal parish, people often leave directed gifts to the parish: for organ restoration, for camp scholarship funds, for preservation of historic portions of the church, etc. Each one is in a separate fund and we can only use such funds or their interest to pay for needs allowed by that particular fund. Also, sometimes people set up a fund where people contribute monetary donations \"in lieu of flowers\" after a death. One elderly couple I knew did this, they requested donations to a camp scholarship fund at the parish in their name/honor, rather than flowers, and it now stands at like $12K. Funds are used when a child cannot afford to attend a church camp with youth group. I have seen funds \"borrowed\" from one account on a short term basis but they are always replaced/repaid.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>welshdragon<br />\nRe: This just in: new tithing slips.<br />\nTithing and all the other money making cons operated by the church must be brought to the attention of the brain washed members and they need to be enlightened as to how all these billions are being used. WE now know that the amount the church gives to helping others is less than $7.00 a year from each member. Getting church members to open up their minds and decide for themselves, what the church does with all their money. Seek and ye shall find and the internet will show the way. There are a thousand questions to be asked, the leadership will not openly provide the answers for they know that the truth will destroy any credibility that is left.<br />\nDirect members towards these sites, this is a cult and its members have the right to decide for themselves. There is nothing wrong in providing the truth. Isn\'t that what the Christian faith is about.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>mormonisn\'t<br />\nRe: This just in: new tithing slips.<br />\nSo the Book of Mormon is true..</p>\n<p>THE BOOK OF MORMON<br />\nCHAPTER 8<br />\n32 Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be churches built up that shall say: Come unto me, and for your money you shall be forgiven of your sins.</p>\n<hr />\nresqteam<br />\nRe: Translation:<br />\nSo true! The hegemony lives on...\n<hr />\nsummer<br />\nRe: This just in: new tithing slips.<br />\n&gt; \"Though reasonable efforts will be made globally to use donations as designated, all donations become the Church\'s property and will be used at the Church\'s sole discretion to further the Church\'s overall mission.\"\n<p>The church\'s overall mission is the acquisition of real estate, am I correct?</p>\n<p>Nice scam.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>ipo<br />\nRe: This just in: new tithing slips.<br />\nSomebody photoshop Monson in place of Marlon Brando, that would be awesome.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>caedmon<br />\nRe: Directed giving<br />\nThat\'s the way it\'s done in other churches. When my mother passed away, the family donated funds to her church to be used to purchase books for the church library. They gave us an accounting of what was purchased and inserted a sticker in each book that it had been donated in \"loving memory of......).</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Don Bagley<br />\nRe: This just in: new tithing slips.<br />\nThat\'s a disclaimer that keeps on giving.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>sivab1<br />\nRe: This just in: new tithing slips.<br />\nDone. I made a couple just for you-I just don\'t know where to put them for show.</p>\n<hr />\nnonamekid<br />\nRe: This just in: new tithing slips.<br />\nSend it to cricket at the Salamander Society\n<p><a href=\"http://www.salamandersociety.com/\" title=\"http://www.salamandersociety.com/\">http://www.salamandersociety.com/</a></p>\n<hr />\n<p>Mia<br />\nRe: This just in: new tithing slips.<br />\nHow can any attorney look at the tithing slip wording,<br />\nthen handover 10%? How?</p>\n<hr />\nguynoirprivateeye<br />\nHow can any attorney look at the tithing slip wording,<br />\nMemo to Mia:\n<p>In Morland, Faith \'Beliefs\' trump EVERYTHING;</p>\n<p>how could you forget so soon?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>No Mo<br />\nWhat is amazing is that ...<br />\n...the members are responding like it is a tax form, something that is required, not voluntary. What a stupid frame of mind. These people are nuts.</p>\n<hr />\nlulu<br />\nSounds like they need Humanitarian &amp; Perpetual Education money<br />\nto shore up the mall.\n<p>And didn\'t have time to wait.</p>\n<p>Can you smell the desperation?</p>\n<hr />\nsummer<br />\nPerhaps members should just ditch the tithing slips.<br />\nInstead, they could submit donations with their own slip stating, \"This money goes to [blank] fund or the church will not accept it at all.\"\n<p>Two can play that game.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>EssexExMo<br />\nRe: This just in: new tithing slips.<br />\n\"Though reasonable efforts will be made globally to use donations as designated, all donations become the Church\'s property and will be used at the Church\'s sole discretion to further the Church\'s overall mission.\"</p>\n<p>for some reason this reminded me of the message on a packet of salted peanuts \"Warning - may contain nuts\"<br />\nor on McDonalds coffee \"Caution - may be hot\"</p>\n<p>It sounds obvious but it\'s there for a very particular *legal* reason</p>\n<hr />\n<p>kookoo4kokaubeam<br />\nTheir must be a reason for the change.<br />\nWere they successfully sued? One must wonder.</p>\n<hr />\nEssexExMo<br />\nRe: Their must be a reason for the change.<br />\nkookoo4kokaubeam Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------<br />\n&gt; Were they successfully sued? One must wonder.\n<p>If that was the case, I think we may heard - on the grapevine, so to speak.</p>\n<p>My speculation was that it has been added to head off any *future* legal action</p>\n<hr />\nsivab1<br />\nThanks<br />\nThanks should be up in a couple of days? Anyway it gave me a laugh.\n<hr />\nguynoirprivateeye<br />\nRe: This just in: new tithing slips.<br />\nIt\'s a reminder: ChurchCo does whatever it wants to do.\n<p>\'thanks\' for that (!?)</p>\n<hr />\nJoe Laban<br />\nRe: This just in: new tithing slips.<br />\nIf you try to open the \"Unit materials\" section you get the following...\n<p>Sensitive Materials</p>\n<p>Sorry, you must sign in with an authorized LDS Account to view these secure items. If you have already signed in and feel that there is an error with your account, please confirm with your unit clerk that your membership record is up to date. If you have further questions, please contact customer service.</p>\n<p>\"Sensitive Materials\" is right.</p>\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1493018902, expire = 1493105302, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:d6e635ad2f32a8c070678c26fe4fb2bd' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

By Dallin A. Chokes

Printed on the slip: "Though reasonable efforts will be made globally to use donations as designated, all donations become the Church's property and will be used at the Church's sole discretion to further the Church's overall mission." So, the days when you thought you could give to a good cause (i.e., NOT tithing) and hope it would end up somewhere good (Perpetual Education? Fast Offerings?) are now over. Here's my money...let's hope you do something good with it.

Sorry if this is a re-post of information, but I just saw this yesterday (as my wife is still fully committed to paying a crapload of our money--yes, on gross--to the church).

New stuff: no more "address" section--replaced with "Membership Record Number" section.

Five categories: Tithing (of course), Fast offering, General missionary, Ward missionary (?), Humanitarian aid, and Other (specify).

The most intriguing part came at the end. I need to dig up old slips to see what it used to say, but here it is:

"Though reasonable efforts will be made globally to use donations as designated, all donations become the Church's property and will be used at the Church's sole discretion to further the Church's overall mission."

So, the days when you thought you could give to a good cause (i.e., NOT tithing) and hope it would end up somewhere good (Perpetual Education? Fast Offerings?) are now over. Here's my money...let's hope you do something good with it.


angsty
Which means that
they really shouldn't be running around saying that tithing money wasn't used for this or that mall or hotel.

WiserWomanNow
Translation:
“Once you sheeple find out how we REALLY have been spending your tithing & donations and you demand an explanation, we’ll just indignantly point to this little statement on the tithing slip, as though WE are the injured and well-justified party.”


guynoirprivateeye
Re: This just in: new tithing slips.
(outside wisdom?)

That's the beauty of GIVING something away;

suppose you gift a holiday (christmas, birthday, etc) gift to a relative, and the relative turns around & Trashes it...

do you own any interest in it? NO, no you don't.

it's the choice of the donee.

but in Most situations (hopefully) there isn't coercion to make the next gift. This, of course, isn't the case with ChurchCo.

money is fungible, it can be used wherever it goes, wherever it's needed. IF the donors believe enough to give.... Don't they believe enough to Give Up concern for the funds? I hope so.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 08:35PM by guynoirprivateeye.

grubbygert
Re: This just in: new tithing slips.
they aren't even trying to hide it anymore

i can just see them getting together and saying,"wait, wait, wait, i got it - lets tell them we can use the money for the mall and see how many of them are too dumb to figure it out - i mean, we put the damn mall right across the street from the temple and they STILL give us money! is this a sweet gig, or what?"


sivab1
Re: This just in: new tithing slips.
I am curious about how they used "Church's overall mission." I can almost see Monson swiveling around petting a cat. It is interesting how they didn't say something along the lines of "the Lord's work". I guess they are being more honest with their statement. I wonder how many people will actually question what that mission is exactley.


baura
Re: This just in: new tithing slips.
Remember when GBH said in a media interview how the Church doesn't report its finances to the public but lets the members know? Ha ha ha ha ha ha! What a cut up!


FreeRose
The "Church's Mission"
You know, 5 star hotels, golf courses, billion dollar malls, expensive dinners, ... blah, blah, blah. They are, after all, the Lord's annointed.

TBM's are scraping by, paying for missions, cleaning toilets, and they live in the lap of luxury. "To the private jet, James. Hawaii here I come!."

FOLLOW THE MONEY. OH, YEAH, NOT!


PtLoma
Directed giving
Many people leave large sums to a school or art museum or zoo, sometimes on an unrestricted basis, but often on a restricted/directed basis. When it's the latter, the recipient is legally bound to honor the donor's request. If I leave $50K to the San Diego Zoo to build a new koala exhibit (assuming they are raising/recruiting funds for such a facility), they are not allowed to use it to build a new gift shop.

What the LDS tithing slip states, in essence, is that all donations to them are unrestricted, even if you check the box directing your donation to one cause (Fast Offering vs Tithing vs. Humanitarian aid) or another.


Joe Laban
Re: This just in: new tithing slips.
Check out this...

https://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.php?10136-Received-unusual-donatio...

It has mixed explanations. Oaks must be involved in this with the other church attorneys. This is not a good sign for the faithful.


FreeRose
Wow.
Looks like the new slips took everyone by surprise. Kinda like the temple changes - no advanced warning at all. "Changes, what changes?"


Smiling Dog
Re: This just in: new tithing slips.
I wonder what the Priesthood directive will say concerning this? What language will be used to dissuage any concerns the members may have, while still maintaining the very clear message on the slips themselves? Remember, after Hinckly said he didn't know that they teach about men becoming gods, all it took to calm down the mormon masses was a brief mention in GC about how some things get taken out of context by the press. Hook, line and sinker, they took it. I imagine they will do the same with whatever bullshit is fed to them about this...

PtLoma
Re: Directed giving
It's taken quite seriously in the non-LDS world.

I know of a situation in my town where a lady left $1 million to the local old Spanish mission for restoration of historic buildings inside the mission museum complex (note: the lady wasn't even Catholic but she believed in historic preservation). The pastor of the affiliated mission Catholic parish tried to use it to gussy up the interior of his (non-historic) adjacent church and was stopped by the executors, who correctly pointed out that the money was intended for restoration of historic buildings, not for luxury upgrades to the new church interior.

Also, people who donate enough money to a university to endow a scholarship get detailed financial info of the investment trust and disbursement of funds. Likewise, I had a great-aunt who left >$1,000,000 to UCLA medical center for cancer research. Money was placed in trust to fund salaries for researchers. My aunt (her nearest surviving relative) is given detailed financial reports re: the current value of the fund and disbursements. My aunt lives on the East Coast and is occasionally invited (once a year or two) to attend a recognition luncheon for major donors or their families. She can't always attend, but I assure you that my great-aunt's money didn't pay for a dorm or a gymnasium.


PtLoma
Re: Directed giving
Also, in my Episcopal parish, people often leave directed gifts to the parish: for organ restoration, for camp scholarship funds, for preservation of historic portions of the church, etc. Each one is in a separate fund and we can only use such funds or their interest to pay for needs allowed by that particular fund. Also, sometimes people set up a fund where people contribute monetary donations "in lieu of flowers" after a death. One elderly couple I knew did this, they requested donations to a camp scholarship fund at the parish in their name/honor, rather than flowers, and it now stands at like $12K. Funds are used when a child cannot afford to attend a church camp with youth group. I have seen funds "borrowed" from one account on a short term basis but they are always replaced/repaid.


welshdragon
Re: This just in: new tithing slips.
Tithing and all the other money making cons operated by the church must be brought to the attention of the brain washed members and they need to be enlightened as to how all these billions are being used. WE now know that the amount the church gives to helping others is less than $7.00 a year from each member. Getting church members to open up their minds and decide for themselves, what the church does with all their money. Seek and ye shall find and the internet will show the way. There are a thousand questions to be asked, the leadership will not openly provide the answers for they know that the truth will destroy any credibility that is left.
Direct members towards these sites, this is a cult and its members have the right to decide for themselves. There is nothing wrong in providing the truth. Isn't that what the Christian faith is about.


mormonisn't
Re: This just in: new tithing slips.
So the Book of Mormon is true..

THE BOOK OF MORMON
CHAPTER 8
32 Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be churches built up that shall say: Come unto me, and for your money you shall be forgiven of your sins.


resqteam
Re: Translation:
So true! The hegemony lives on...
summer
Re: This just in: new tithing slips.
> "Though reasonable efforts will be made globally to use donations as designated, all donations become the Church's property and will be used at the Church's sole discretion to further the Church's overall mission."

The church's overall mission is the acquisition of real estate, am I correct?

Nice scam.


ipo
Re: This just in: new tithing slips.
Somebody photoshop Monson in place of Marlon Brando, that would be awesome.


caedmon
Re: Directed giving
That's the way it's done in other churches. When my mother passed away, the family donated funds to her church to be used to purchase books for the church library. They gave us an accounting of what was purchased and inserted a sticker in each book that it had been donated in "loving memory of......).


Don Bagley
Re: This just in: new tithing slips.
That's a disclaimer that keeps on giving.


sivab1
Re: This just in: new tithing slips.
Done. I made a couple just for you-I just don't know where to put them for show.


nonamekid
Re: This just in: new tithing slips.
Send it to cricket at the Salamander Society

http://www.salamandersociety.com/


Mia
Re: This just in: new tithing slips.
How can any attorney look at the tithing slip wording,
then handover 10%? How?


guynoirprivateeye
How can any attorney look at the tithing slip wording,
Memo to Mia:

In Morland, Faith 'Beliefs' trump EVERYTHING;

how could you forget so soon?


No Mo
What is amazing is that ...
...the members are responding like it is a tax form, something that is required, not voluntary. What a stupid frame of mind. These people are nuts.


lulu
Sounds like they need Humanitarian & Perpetual Education money
to shore up the mall.

And didn't have time to wait.

Can you smell the desperation?


summer
Perhaps members should just ditch the tithing slips.
Instead, they could submit donations with their own slip stating, "This money goes to [blank] fund or the church will not accept it at all."

Two can play that game.


EssexExMo
Re: This just in: new tithing slips.
"Though reasonable efforts will be made globally to use donations as designated, all donations become the Church's property and will be used at the Church's sole discretion to further the Church's overall mission."

for some reason this reminded me of the message on a packet of salted peanuts "Warning - may contain nuts"
or on McDonalds coffee "Caution - may be hot"

It sounds obvious but it's there for a very particular *legal* reason


kookoo4kokaubeam
Their must be a reason for the change.
Were they successfully sued? One must wonder.


EssexExMo
Re: Their must be a reason for the change.
kookoo4kokaubeam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Were they successfully sued? One must wonder.

If that was the case, I think we may heard - on the grapevine, so to speak.

My speculation was that it has been added to head off any *future* legal action


sivab1
Thanks
Thanks should be up in a couple of days? Anyway it gave me a laugh.
guynoirprivateeye
Re: This just in: new tithing slips.
It's a reminder: ChurchCo does whatever it wants to do.

'thanks' for that (!?)


Joe Laban
Re: This just in: new tithing slips.
If you try to open the "Unit materials" section you get the following...

Sensitive Materials

Sorry, you must sign in with an authorized LDS Account to view these secure items. If you have already signed in and feel that there is an error with your account, please confirm with your unit clerk that your membership record is up to date. If you have further questions, please contact customer service.

"Sensitive Materials" is right.

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"