The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
by normally a lurker Mar 2012
[Mormon Scripture] D&C 132:20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.
This looks like it came from an official church website:
OK so normally I'm a lurker, and I haven't even checked the board regularly as of late but I saw this link and need thoughts on it:
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-101#C13
The answers to "Do Latter-day Saints believe they can become “gods”?" and "Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will “get their own planet”?" are BAFFLING me.
It's been years since I've been to church, but isn't it a basic Mormon tenant that the righteous will get their own planet and become a god?
There has to be quotes from the early church leaders (or even not so early) to the effect, right?
Or am I just crazy and interpreted my Sunday lessons wrongly?
In 1975 there were 225,000 potential Gods at a official Mormon priesthood meeting.
President Spencer W. Kimball [Mormon prophet in the mid 1970's] said in a general priesthood meeting:
“Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. I suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. There seems to be plenty of space out there in the universe. And the Lord has proved that he knows how to do it. I think he could make, or probably have us help make, worlds for all of us, for every one of us 225,000.
“Just think of the possibilities, the potential. Every little boy that has just been born becomes an heir to this glorious, glorious program. When he is grown, he meets a lovely woman; they are married in the holy temple. They live all the commandments of the Lord. They keep themselves clean. And then they become sons of God, and they go forward with their great program—they go beyond the angels, beyond the angels and the gods that are waiting there. They go to their exaltation.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1975, p. 120; or Ensign, Nov. 1975, p. 80 Official Mormon publication.
jaredsotherbrother
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
Not only was it taught to me, I taught it on my mission to a few meat-eating investigators. "As man is, God once was, as God is, man may become".
I guess I'm now double damned, I not only denied the Holy Ghost, but taught false doctrine in the name of the Lord.
Devoted Exmo
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
Interesting that they would only quote biblical passages when the doctrine came from the standard works that are unique to mormonism.
forbiddencokedrinker
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
Wow, that is a fundamental changing in church theology. Of course it could just be a bold face lie for the non-members.
guynoirprivateeye
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
BUT: If you point out / highlight ANY inconsistencies in the on-the-ground presentation ('doctrine') of Mormonism, you'll Quickly be branded an apostate.
"Believe in Bible"? Oh yeah, we Believe it!
Live the Bible? Well Pilgrim, that's a Different Story...
normally a lurker
The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
reasonabledoubt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, in the TV interview with GBH [rpevious Mormon prophet] he said that if
mormons believed that that it was just a folk
story or hearsay, or something.
Yeah, I think I remember the interview you're talking about, but if I remember right, the question and the answer were vague and just kind of pushed under the rug by mormons at the time.
This looks like an official FAQ and is much more to the point and specific than "oh I don't know if we teach that."
ymountain
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
Oh geez. Here we go again. COJCOLDS changing their doctrine once again because it became too embarrassing.
normally a lurker
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
So i'm not crazy that they used to teach that you became god/get your own planet. I already have a couple of mormon friends saying they weren't ever taught that. ugh. SO glad I'm out out out.
Feijoada
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
Lying for the Lord
Makurosu
My convert ex-wife was taught that when she was investigating the Church.
She was taught that when you become a God, you get your own planet. I was never taught that exactly, but I was taught that as a God you create planets for your spirit children to get bodies and become Gods themselves, because your job will be to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man, like our God's duty now.
That's a pretty slick way to deny the whole "man becoming a God" business. "So, Mormon church, do you teach that you'll get your own planet in the Mormon heaven?" "Oh no, that's ridiculous. That's just speculation by individual Mormons." Yeah, except that a lot of Mormons do believe and teach that, which means that as agents for the Church the Church teaches it.
Tahoe Girl
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
Yes! We were repeatedly taught that we would become gods and goddesses, and that we would have our own worlds to populate with our spirit children. We were taught that over and over and over again. It was ingrained in us. That is what we were living so righteously for! That's why we were sealed in the temples, with hope of a celestial glory and eternal increase
Damn the leaders of the mormon cult for claiming that these things are not doctrine.
Stupid cult.
archytas
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
I'm in my 20's. When I was a lad, I was taught that I could become a god and that I could have a planet. (depending on my works in this life of course)
If they are phasing this doctrine out, it is a very recent trend. Perhaps it was pioneered by GBH, but is still trickling down to the member level.
My TBM parents definitely believed (and still believe) we are "gods in embryo."
I'm flabbergasted by the unequivocal denial of the planet bit. Not to mention how they blame it all on those unlearned folksy members, and their penchant for speculation.
This illustrates why it's imperative that we hold onto old manuals and books ;) Otherwise they will pull a 1984 any chance they get.
----
Here are some quotes to refute the bs propaganda. (including one from GBH!!)
http://mormonthink.com/QUOTES/natureofgod.htm
guynoirprivateeye
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
Mormonism: The Teflon Religion.
anonski21
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
To quote the temple endowment: Gods and Goddesses, Priests and Priestesses
untarded
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
I'm glad I left when I did. I can imagine an old timer TBM reading this and thinking,"Why did I even bother? What have I been striving for my entire life? Oh God, I've wasted my entire life on this church, and now they pull the rug from under me?"
Don Bagley
All that tithing wasted
No planet for you!
freeman
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
"And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed -if all records told the same tale — then the lie passed into history and became truth. 'Who controls the past,' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.' And yet the past, though of its nature alterable, never had been altered. Whatever was true now was true from everlasting to everlasting. It was quite simple. All that was needed was an unending series of victories over your own memory. 'Reality control', they called it: in New Speak, 'doublethink'."
1984
canadianfriend
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
They deny the "becoming a god" stuff because they're embarassed by it. People have pointed out to the Mormons that it's not Christian or biblical. Since it's one of those many problematic doctrines that their "prophet" invented, they sense a real need to just get rid of it.
They can call it a folk story or hearsay or whatever they want, but anyone who can read knows they're lying.
Here it is:
D&C 132:20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.
grubbygert
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
The Church of What-Do-We-Believe-This-Month? of Latter Day Saints
facsimile3
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
Here is my favorite from the page posted by archytas:
"Mormonism be it true or false, holds out to men the greatest inducements that the human mind can grasp. And so it does... It teaches men that they can become divine, that man is God in embryo, that God was once man in mortality, and that the only difference between Gods, angels and men is a difference in education and development. Is such a religion to be sneered at? It teaches that the worlds on high, the stars that glitter in the blue vault of heaven, are kingdoms of God, that they were once earths like this, that they have been redeemed and glorified by the same laws, the same principles that are applied to this planet, and by which it will ascend to a perfected and glorified state. It teaches that these worlds are peopled with human beings, God's sons and daughters, and that every husband and father, may become an Adam, and every wife and mother an Eve, to some future planet."
- Apostle Orson F. Whitney, Divine Evidences of Truthfulness, Y.M.M.I.A. Annual Conference, June 9th, 1895.
If I am reading that correctly we learn three VERY important things:
1. The Church did teach that man will become gods.
2. Stars were once planets.
3. Adam was actually Heavenly Father (i.e. Adam-God doctrine), and Eve was Heavenly Mother (one of them, anyway).
vulturetamer
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
Gods and Goddesses? Priests and Priestesses? Someone want to try and explain the difference? Wouldn't they be the same thing? Or would the p & ps be the children of gods? Gods in training? So then aren't we already that, according to Momo doctrine? Maybe I just don't have a good grip on royal heirarchy, or the "gods and goddesses, preists and priestesses" sounds like gobbledy took filler verbiage, to make it sound fancy for the temple movie.
freeman
Stop trying to make sense of made up nonsense.
lazarus
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
I love this game. Let's contradict mormons by only using mormon owned websites.
http://www.lds.org/general-conference/1977/04/our-great-potential?lang=e...
We remember the numerous scriptures which, concentrated in a single line, were said by a former prophet, Lorenzo Snow: “As man is, God once was; and as God is, man may become.” This is a power available to us as we reach perfection and receive the experience and power to create, to organize, to control native elements.
...Let me mention one more thing. While we are in the mortal body we cannot “fashion kingdoms [or] organize matter, for [that is] beyond our capacity and calling, beyond this world. In the resurrection, men who have been faithful and diligent in all things in the flesh, [who] have kept their first and second estate, and [are] worthy to be crowned Gods, even the sons of God, will be ordained to organize matter. How much matter do you suppose there is between here and some of the fixed stars which we can see? Enough to frame many, very many millions of such earths as this, yet it is now so diffused, clear and pure, that we look through it and behold the stars. Yet the matter is there. Can you form any conception of this? Can you form any idea of the minuteness of matter?” (JD, 15:137).
or, http://www.ldsces.org/manuals/doctrine-and-covenants-institute-student-m...
“Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. I suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. There seems to be plenty of space out there in the universe. And the Lord has proved that he knows how to do it. I think he could make, or probably have us help make, worlds for all of us, for every one of us 225,000.
“Just think of the possibilities, the potential. Every little boy that has just been born becomes an heir to this glorious, glorious program. When he is grown, he meets a lovely woman; they are married in the holy temple. They live all the commandments of the Lord. They keep themselves clean. And then they become sons of God, and they go forward with their great program—they go beyond the angels, beyond the angels and the gods that are waiting there. They go to their exaltation.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1975, p. 120; or Ensign, Nov. 1975, p. 80 ; see also Alma 13:10–12 .)
or http://www.ldsces.org/inst_manuals/marriage/m1.htm
“If righteous men have power through the gospel and its crowning ordinance of celestial marriage to become kings and priests to rule in exaltation forever, it follows that the women by their side (without whom they cannot attain exaltation) will be queens and priestesses. (Rev. 1:6; 5:10.) Exaltation grows out of the eternal union of a man and his wife. Of those whose marriage endures in eternity, the Lord says, ‘Then shall they be gods’ (D&C 132:20); that is, each of them, the man and the woman, will be a god. As such they will rule over their dominions forever” (Mormon Doctrine, 613).
or http://www.ldsces.org/inst_manuals/d_cInst32493000/Sections/D_CInst32493...
The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “in the resurrection, some are raised to be angels, others are raised to become Gods” (Teachings, p. 312). All who receive the gospel should have as their greatest desire to rise to the high and holy status of godhood— to become as God is. That is the great and grand objective of mortality.
or, http://www.ldsces.org/inst_manuals/nt-in/nt-in-12.htm
“God’s name is God. To have his name written on a person is to identify that person as a god. How can it be said more plainly? Those who gain eternal life become gods! Their inheritance is both a fulness of the glory of the Father and ‘a continuation of the seed forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.’ (D. & C. 132:19–20.)” (McConkie, DNTC, 3:458.)
ohh, this one is juicy http://www.ldsces.org/manuals/church-history-institute-student-manual/ch...
The most renowned of all the Prophet’s sermons was given at general conference in April 1844 as a funeral address in honor of his friend King Follett who had died in a construction accident. Joseph Smith spoke for over two hours mentioning at least thirty-four doctrinal subjects, including the importance of knowing the true God, the way to become as God is, the plurality of gods, eternal progression, the importance of the Holy Ghost, the nature of intelligence, the unpardonable sin, and little children and the Resurrection.
One of his most profound messages concerned God and man’s destiny in relationship to him. He declared, “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! . . .
“. . . you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves . . . by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings.” Man, then, is to become like God now is.
guynoirprivateeye
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
In Mormonism, It's ALL in 'the Understanding'...
'gators, civilians, and most Newbies Can't Understand, because they Don't have the Spirit (tm).
as ppl 'progress' (Deeper indoctrination), more & more can be understood, therefore more can be 'revealed'.
guynoirprivateeye
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
re-reading this, I don't think it's an Outright Denial, it's more of a Hide The Pea kinda deal.
Heresy
The church is now lifting arguments wholesale from apologist sites.
Check out http://mormonvoices.org/ - it used to be the Mormon Defense site.
One of its top stories (at least today) is that they NEVER said becoming gods was doctrine.
But that is outshown by the story about the outrage over righteous Mormons baptizing their own deceased family (boo hoo). That wasn't the cause of the outrage at all. Incredible.
Otremer
Nothing new here.
Joseph Smith Jr. denied the practice of polygamy at Nauvoo, Brigham Young claimed John D. Lee was solely responsible for the Mountain Meadows Massacre and Mormons today claim that the practice of polygamy stopped in 1890. The Mormon Church wouldn't recognize truth if it fell on 'em.
casascius
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
In the above linked 1975 Ensign article by Spencer Kimball, just the opening paragraph is amusing in and of itself.
"Brethren, it is a great thrill to think that we are part of a congregation of 225,000 men and boys. Some of you are a little darker, some of you have slant eyes, but you are all men and brethren, and we love you."
Aww, he loves them. I'm surprised there's no "some of you are retarded and we even love you too". At least he was clear to make sure that everyone who was darker was only a "little" darker, because this was 1975, and clearly nobody "a lot" darker would have been at a priesthood meeting.
This, of course, coming from a church who only days ago (http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/racial-remarks-in-washington-post-...) "condemn[s] racism, including any and all past racism by individuals both inside and outside the Church."
Chicken'n'Backpacks
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
Another fine double-bind for TSCC: if they deny the whole planet thing, then where are all those spirit-children requiring bodies supposed to go from the forever family jazz? (they still teach THAT don't they?)
guynoirprivateeye
where are all those spirit-children requiring bodies supposed to go from the forever family jazz?
NP: since only the righteous will inherit the Earth...
imalive
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
I've stopped trying to understand the ever changing Moron doctrine years ago. It's like nailing jello to a wall.
A ANON
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
How many Mormon General Authorities have uttered the final phrase:
"...as God is, man may become."
A good search would yield thousands and thousands of results, many (perhaps most) of them from the current LDS leadership.
Did they actually say the words, "You will have your own planet." Probably not, but if "as God is, man may become." -- and if God has His own plant(s) -- then obviously good Mormons will have THEIR own planets as well.
That has always been the members' expectation. That's one of the main reasons for the Temple Rites. That's what "exaltation" means, and members understand perfectly!
It just sounds too conceited to admit publicly. You can't promise anything greater than Godhood (try to). You can't be more conceited than to want God's job! It's the ultimate ego trip. And it was dreamed up by the greatest con men in American history.
Clearly the church is embarrassed to admit publicly to its own doctrine, yet they must hold on to it privately because so many Mormon men are highly motivated by it - especially the polygamy/sexual aspects of it.
So, in their Press Release, then in their insider communication, the Mormon Church uses George Orwellian "Double Talk" to entice one audience, while discouraging the another.
What a truly sick society.
ZIP
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
The final test for all liars:
--- OVER TIME THEY CAN'T KEEP THEIR STORIES STRAIGHT ---
Chicken'n'Backpacks
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
I just remembered something from about 1991, when a friend of mine had just gotten back from his mission; he was freely explaining to our gobsmacked nonmo co-workers how he would get his own planet--I wonder what he would say now...?
anybody
Looks like there is going to be a great number of disappointed Second Anointed
I can hear the complaints now...
"I'VE DEDICATED MY LIFE TO THIS, I'VE GIVEN ALL MY $$$, AND NOW YOU TELL ME THAT I'M *NOT* GOING TO BE A GOD?"
Or from the wives:
"But I've already designed the animals and picked out the colors for our new planet...now you are telling me that we aren't getting *ANYTHING*?"
Reality can be such a b***h.
brigantia
Then it is clear that the mormon lord is the father of lies
Leaving
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
D&C 132
19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.
sonoma
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
exactly! lying for the lord...
sherlock
Re: The church now denying they ever taught the whole man becoming a god thing?
This completely undermines the entire plan of salvation as it has been taught. A huge 'own goal' in my mind and I think just one more thing that may help start some TBMs to think and begin to question.
"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"