The Church not Only Threw Brigham Young under the bus but older members

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>SECular Priest Dec. 2013</p>\n<p>As a youth and a young adult I spent time defending the Church position on the Priesthood Ban. That was what we were taught through God\'s prophets. To get a temple recommend you had to answer the question do you sustain the current profit. \"Well yes!\" There was no question in any body\'s mind this was the will of God.</p>\n<p>As I look back I feel very foolish at my actions but that was what I was taught as a kid and that was what my parents were taught and that was what was taught in Church.</p>\n<p>For the current leaders not to put their names on this essay on the LDS website shows just how much compassion they have towards the saints. None. To come out and say that BY was a racist, they need to apologize to those who bought the package and defended the Church\'s position until 1978.</p>\n<p>There is no way I can say that we are lead by a prophet today because 50 years from now they may change their position again on something.</p>\n<p>If God was the same today as he was yesterday and he will be in the future, this essay flies in the opposite direction.</p>\n<p>I feel I was lead astray by all the prophets up until Kimball. So how can any TBM put any faith in what the top brethren say anymore?</p>\n<hr />\nGlo<br />\nRe: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members<br />\nReminds me of the old Soviet Union where the pictures disappeared of the person who was in disfavor.\n<hr />\n<p>Lethbridge Reprobate<br />\nRe: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members<br />\nOr like N. Korea, where Kim\'s uncle was dragged out of meeting 2 days ago for corruption and whacked yesterday.</p>\n<p>Ron Burr</p>\n<hr />\n<p>BG<br />\nIn my mission we were not to teach non-whites.<br />\nI was a missionary in Scandinavia in the 70s. We were ordered not to teach non-whites, this included the rare African, African-American, but also people from Pakistan or Turkey!!! I thought this was WRONG at the time but the official policy was that most of these people were under the curse so it made no sense to try to turn them into priesthood authorities.</p>\n<p>I think the church is hoping that all of us &gt;45 years old will die out quickly so our memories of what was taught by the prophets, apostles and other leaders is lost from collective memory.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Feijoada<br />\nRe: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members<br />\nAs missionaries in Brazil during sixties, we too were instructed against teaching blacks, even whites who might have black ancestry. I was given assignments where most Brazilian skin colors varied from pleasing shades of sepia to glistening black. They were \"cursed\", as stated in public and written over and over by Mormon \"prophets\". Most of our efforts focused upon trying to locate anyone who might have an interest in Mormonism, someone not of the \"seed of Cain\". Was not easy.</p>\n<p>Pre-1978 blacks were the \"valiant\" ones, the true \"youth of the noble birthright\"; having been spared the ordeal of being deceived by Joe and his successor fraudsters.</p>\n<hr />\njpt<br />\nRe: In my mission we were not to teach non-whites.<br />\nThere\'s a reason they don\'t send home teachers my way... or invite me to meetings or interviews.\n<hr />\n<p>Villager<br />\nRe: In my mission we were not to teach non-whites.<br />\nI have been thinking the same thing.<br />\nIt is pretty hard to re-write history when so many of us who experienced it are still alive.<br />\nAnd we are not that old! for Christ\'s sake.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Tristan<br />\nRe: In my mission we were not to teach non-whites.<br />\nNot even people from Turkey? That\'s hilarious because 1) Turkish people are white, &amp; 2) The BOM was translated into Turkish very early on.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Tristan<br />\nRe: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members<br />\nYeah, my CIL is from Brazil &amp; she\'s about 1/4 African descent, also with Portuguese &amp; native background. (Her sister looks pretty white though, &amp; has straight hair.) If she had been an adult in the \'70s, there would be no way anyone would have baptized her.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>BG<br />\nEspecially not turkish .... they were considered scum...<br />\nby the local church leaders. They were guest workers in a very white and insulated culture. The local leaders did not want outsiders to join the Church, and they did consider them dark, loathsome, and cursed. Hard to comprehend I know.</p>\n<p>Times have changed a great deal. I have read missionary blogs from the country where I was a missionary, and today it is only Africans, Eastern Europeans, and Turks who will listen to them. The locals have heard it all before and want nothing to do with Mormonism.</p>\n<p>One of my favorite memories was tracting on a very very cold winter day and no one would let us in. A very nice Turkish family invited us in, and wanted to make sure we drank lots of hot Turkish coffee fortified with some form of ethanol. We had a very hard time explaining why we couldn\'t drink coffee and I finally gave up and decided to drink my cup, not wanting to offend them. Wow was I taken by surprise. My companion thought we should call up the mission president and confess our sins of drinking both coffee and alcohol. I talked him out of it. I often saw the mother of the young family on the bus and she would always smile and wave to me. She had very beautiful eyes that I still remember, after many many years.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>forbiddencokedrinker<br />\nRe: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members<br />\nO/T, but the Uncle was the guy who was in charge of coordinating with the Chinese. Sounds like there is trouble in paradise between the two.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>nonmo_1<br />\nRe: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members<br />\n\"I feel I was lead astray by all the prophets up until Kimball. So how can any TBM put any faith in what the top brethren say anymore?\"</p>\n<p>Many people here say how the mormon church is like a corporation. Reading your post, reminds me of companies laying off the (higher priced) experienced people over the age of 40 or 50.</p>\n<p>On the bright side, maybe this will make it easier for people over the age of 45 to leave the church...even though they are usually the higher age (i.e..tithing) earners.</p>\n<p>Time will tell.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>The Invisible Green Potato<br />\nRe: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members<br />\nI truly feel sorry for those who were forced to defend racist doctrines, thinking that TSCC would show them the same level of loyalty in return. TSCC has betrayed its older members.</p>\n<hr />\ncludgie<br />\nRe: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members<br />\nThere\'s a weird side to this, too. When I was on my mission (Italy, 1969-1971), we had to tell all people awaiting baptism about the church\'s ban on giving the priesthood to black people (actually, people of African descent). At least we were honest, and not withholding this information from the person about to be baptized.\n<p>Fast-forward to today. I\'ve since lived in a hard-baptizin\' African country, and was taken aback to find out from the senior missionaries themselves that the Africans were specifically NOT TOLD about this. There was an active process in place to not allow the Africans to know about the pre-1978 ban. When I challenged this as wrong, they got testy and demanded to know how it was even relevant, given the fact that it was changed, that the old policies were no more.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>fluhist<br />\nRe: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members<br />\nHello SECular Priest, thankyou for posting this, it has been on my mind too. I am SO sorry you were called upon to defend the whole horrible doctine, and I can only imagine your feelings now. Just know that I understand, and send you my best wishes!</p>\n<p>As a teenager, I was always troubled by tscc teachings on the negro people, but I guess I got to sort of hide from it a bit because there were no negro people in Australia in the 1960s. Not a lot was said about it all, and the Aboriginal people were not included in the ban (not that I knew any Aboriginal members then, interesting huh?).</p>\n<p>NOT my most valient moment, for sure!!</p>\n<p>Yes I am ashamed. However, the discomfort was always there, and once I understood, I stood up against those and other racist teaching in the tscc and elsewhere. Ih ope I have made up for my mistake in this area, in recent years.</p>\n<p>My sincere apologies to any negro ex-mos on the board for those ignorant years!</p>\n<hr />\n<p>guynoirprivateeye<br />\nRe: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members<br />\nLDS: church for memory-challenged</p>\n<hr />\nLethbridge Reprobate<br />\nRe: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members<br />\nSucked to be him didn\'t it?\n<p>Ron Burr</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Still Lurking<br />\nRe: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members<br />\n\"Like a corporation\"....? It IS a corporation. When one uses a check to purchase items from the distribution center, the check is written out to the Corporation of the President. Not a lot of people use checks, but funds still go to the corporation.</p>\n<hr />\nstuntc<br />\nRe: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members<br />\nMy dad expressed some serious cog dis today about what this meant for prophets being inspired. He\'s confused...which hopefully will lead to questioning. And he\'s only 54 for Christ\'s sake. Feels like a huge part of how he\'s justified problems in the world is gone as well.\n<p>If black people aren\'t cursed or weren\'t disobedient in the preexistence then why do people in Africa suffer? How does god allow that?</p>\n<p>For the first time he\'s understanding a little bit of how the world really is.</p>\n<p>If this can affect my dad...it could affect anyone.</p>\n<hr />\nThe 1st FreeAtLast<br />\n\"Who placed the Negroes originally in darkest Africa?\", the apostle asked..<br />\nThe following text was from LDS apostle Mark Petersen, one of the Mormon Church\'s \"prophets, seers, and revelators\" in the latter 20th century:\n<p>\"Is there reason then why the type of birth we receive in this life is not a reflection of our worthiness or lack of it in the pre-existent life? ... can we account in any other way for the birth of some of the children of God in darkest Africa, or in flood-ridden China, or among the starving hordes of India, while some of the rest of us are born here in the United States? We cannot escape the conclusion that because of performance in our pre-existence some of us are born as Chinese, some as Japanese, some as Latter-day Saints. These are rewards and punishments, fully in harmony with His established policy in dealing with sinners and saints, rewarding all according to their deeds....</p>\n<p>\"Let us consider the great mercy of God for a moment. A Chinese, born in China with a dark skin, and with all the handicaps of that race seems to have little opportunity. But think of the mercy of God to Chinese people who are willing to accept the gospel. In spite of whatever they might have done in the pre-existence to justify being born over there as Chinamen, if they now, in this life, accept the gospel and live it the rest of their lives they can have the Priesthood, go to the temple and receive endowments and sealings, and that means they can have exaltation. Isn\'t the mercy of God marvelous?</p>\n<p>\"Think of the Negro, cursed as to the priesthood.... This Negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa — if that Negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory.\"</p>\n<p>(Elder) Mark Petersen, \"Race Problems--As They Affect the Church\"; J. Willard Marriott Library, University of Utah; <a href=\"http://www.lib.utah.edu/collections/manuscripts.php\" title=\"http://www.lib.utah.edu/collections/manuscripts.php\">http://www.lib.utah.edu/collections/manuscripts.php</a></p>\n<p>Also, see the links at <a href=\"http://www.utlm.org/topicalindexb.htm#Racism\" title=\"http://www.utlm.org/topicalindexb.htm#Racism\">http://www.utlm.org/topicalindexb.htm#Racism</a></p>\n<hr />\nWilruff<br />\nTo Fluhist regarding Australian Aboriginals with the Prieshood<br />\nIn the Melbourne Stake in the early 60\'s, there was a member of the high council who was part aboriginal\n<hr />\nTupperwhere<br />\nRe: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members<br />\nit just bothers me that they are trying to make us older members think and believe that we are crazy for remembering this stuff. The older generation like my TBM dad may be able to brush it off like it didn\'t happen but I\'m still pretty sharp and I have a memory similar to an elephant. It\'s like being forced into a psychiatric hospital by psychiatric patients and the Dr\'s are confused as to who\'s crazy and who\'s not.\n<hr />\n<p>Kendal Mint Cake<br />\nRe: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members<br />\nThat\'s exactly what they\'re doing. Just like with caffienated drinks. They pretend you made it all up yourself.</p>\n<hr />\nKendal Mint Cake<br />\nRe: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members<br />\nAnd the changes to the temple ceremony, and the Adam God doctrine, polygamy in the CK...\n<p>Older members know not to speak of older doctrines, lest they send new members fleeing away in droves.</p>\n<hr />\nLabansWidow<br />\nRe: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members<br />\nThe ban on \"blacks\" was always Africans or those of African descent. It never applied to Australian Aborigines, Melanesians,Indians (from India) etc, although some of these people have very dark/black skin. I guess they were too far away for BY or his successors to care about.\n<p>I wish my Dad would think about this issue. His opinion is that \"the church fixed all this back in 1978 and [he] never believed any of it anyway, so it doesn\'t matter\".</p>\n<p>Yes Dad, it does matter..</p>\n<hr />\n<p>MarkJ<br />\nBreaking trust with the members<br />\nWhen the temple ceremonies changed, I figured that any promises that I made under the old ceremony were nullified.</p>\n<p>As the church changes old core doctrine, the GAs have to realize that members will become more and more detached from current core doctrine.</p>\n<p>The timing of this may not have been intentional, but waiting 30 years after the initial change to roll out another interpretation \"What racism? We were never racist!\" seems to try to take advantage of generational turnover.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>fluhist<br />\nRe: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members<br />\nThanks Willruff, for the info on the Aboriginal leader in Melbourne. There are lots of Aboriginal people now who are part of tscc. I tutored one at my work. She was great, and had a good, practical hold on the beleifs of tscc.</p>\n<p>She was VERy shocked when I told her I was an ex-member, and to her total credit really did listen when I talked about the sort of things that had led me to leave tscc (she asked - so I told her!).</p>\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1493450625, expire = 1493537025, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:a263bfb90ae027ae9f65e5f31535b4f5' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

SECular Priest Dec. 2013

As a youth and a young adult I spent time defending the Church position on the Priesthood Ban. That was what we were taught through God's prophets. To get a temple recommend you had to answer the question do you sustain the current profit. "Well yes!" There was no question in any body's mind this was the will of God.

As I look back I feel very foolish at my actions but that was what I was taught as a kid and that was what my parents were taught and that was what was taught in Church.

For the current leaders not to put their names on this essay on the LDS website shows just how much compassion they have towards the saints. None. To come out and say that BY was a racist, they need to apologize to those who bought the package and defended the Church's position until 1978.

There is no way I can say that we are lead by a prophet today because 50 years from now they may change their position again on something.

If God was the same today as he was yesterday and he will be in the future, this essay flies in the opposite direction.

I feel I was lead astray by all the prophets up until Kimball. So how can any TBM put any faith in what the top brethren say anymore?


Glo
Re: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members
Reminds me of the old Soviet Union where the pictures disappeared of the person who was in disfavor.

Lethbridge Reprobate
Re: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members
Or like N. Korea, where Kim's uncle was dragged out of meeting 2 days ago for corruption and whacked yesterday.

Ron Burr


BG
In my mission we were not to teach non-whites.
I was a missionary in Scandinavia in the 70s. We were ordered not to teach non-whites, this included the rare African, African-American, but also people from Pakistan or Turkey!!! I thought this was WRONG at the time but the official policy was that most of these people were under the curse so it made no sense to try to turn them into priesthood authorities.

I think the church is hoping that all of us >45 years old will die out quickly so our memories of what was taught by the prophets, apostles and other leaders is lost from collective memory.


Feijoada
Re: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members
As missionaries in Brazil during sixties, we too were instructed against teaching blacks, even whites who might have black ancestry. I was given assignments where most Brazilian skin colors varied from pleasing shades of sepia to glistening black. They were "cursed", as stated in public and written over and over by Mormon "prophets". Most of our efforts focused upon trying to locate anyone who might have an interest in Mormonism, someone not of the "seed of Cain". Was not easy.

Pre-1978 blacks were the "valiant" ones, the true "youth of the noble birthright"; having been spared the ordeal of being deceived by Joe and his successor fraudsters.


jpt
Re: In my mission we were not to teach non-whites.
There's a reason they don't send home teachers my way... or invite me to meetings or interviews.

Villager
Re: In my mission we were not to teach non-whites.
I have been thinking the same thing.
It is pretty hard to re-write history when so many of us who experienced it are still alive.
And we are not that old! for Christ's sake.


Tristan
Re: In my mission we were not to teach non-whites.
Not even people from Turkey? That's hilarious because 1) Turkish people are white, & 2) The BOM was translated into Turkish very early on.


Tristan
Re: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members
Yeah, my CIL is from Brazil & she's about 1/4 African descent, also with Portuguese & native background. (Her sister looks pretty white though, & has straight hair.) If she had been an adult in the '70s, there would be no way anyone would have baptized her.


BG
Especially not turkish .... they were considered scum...
by the local church leaders. They were guest workers in a very white and insulated culture. The local leaders did not want outsiders to join the Church, and they did consider them dark, loathsome, and cursed. Hard to comprehend I know.

Times have changed a great deal. I have read missionary blogs from the country where I was a missionary, and today it is only Africans, Eastern Europeans, and Turks who will listen to them. The locals have heard it all before and want nothing to do with Mormonism.

One of my favorite memories was tracting on a very very cold winter day and no one would let us in. A very nice Turkish family invited us in, and wanted to make sure we drank lots of hot Turkish coffee fortified with some form of ethanol. We had a very hard time explaining why we couldn't drink coffee and I finally gave up and decided to drink my cup, not wanting to offend them. Wow was I taken by surprise. My companion thought we should call up the mission president and confess our sins of drinking both coffee and alcohol. I talked him out of it. I often saw the mother of the young family on the bus and she would always smile and wave to me. She had very beautiful eyes that I still remember, after many many years.


forbiddencokedrinker
Re: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members
O/T, but the Uncle was the guy who was in charge of coordinating with the Chinese. Sounds like there is trouble in paradise between the two.


nonmo_1
Re: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members
"I feel I was lead astray by all the prophets up until Kimball. So how can any TBM put any faith in what the top brethren say anymore?"

Many people here say how the mormon church is like a corporation. Reading your post, reminds me of companies laying off the (higher priced) experienced people over the age of 40 or 50.

On the bright side, maybe this will make it easier for people over the age of 45 to leave the church...even though they are usually the higher age (i.e..tithing) earners.

Time will tell.


The Invisible Green Potato
Re: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members
I truly feel sorry for those who were forced to defend racist doctrines, thinking that TSCC would show them the same level of loyalty in return. TSCC has betrayed its older members.


cludgie
Re: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members
There's a weird side to this, too. When I was on my mission (Italy, 1969-1971), we had to tell all people awaiting baptism about the church's ban on giving the priesthood to black people (actually, people of African descent). At least we were honest, and not withholding this information from the person about to be baptized.

Fast-forward to today. I've since lived in a hard-baptizin' African country, and was taken aback to find out from the senior missionaries themselves that the Africans were specifically NOT TOLD about this. There was an active process in place to not allow the Africans to know about the pre-1978 ban. When I challenged this as wrong, they got testy and demanded to know how it was even relevant, given the fact that it was changed, that the old policies were no more.


fluhist
Re: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members
Hello SECular Priest, thankyou for posting this, it has been on my mind too. I am SO sorry you were called upon to defend the whole horrible doctine, and I can only imagine your feelings now. Just know that I understand, and send you my best wishes!

As a teenager, I was always troubled by tscc teachings on the negro people, but I guess I got to sort of hide from it a bit because there were no negro people in Australia in the 1960s. Not a lot was said about it all, and the Aboriginal people were not included in the ban (not that I knew any Aboriginal members then, interesting huh?).

NOT my most valient moment, for sure!!

Yes I am ashamed. However, the discomfort was always there, and once I understood, I stood up against those and other racist teaching in the tscc and elsewhere. Ih ope I have made up for my mistake in this area, in recent years.

My sincere apologies to any negro ex-mos on the board for those ignorant years!


guynoirprivateeye
Re: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members
LDS: church for memory-challenged


Lethbridge Reprobate
Re: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members
Sucked to be him didn't it?

Ron Burr


Still Lurking
Re: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members
"Like a corporation"....? It IS a corporation. When one uses a check to purchase items from the distribution center, the check is written out to the Corporation of the President. Not a lot of people use checks, but funds still go to the corporation.


stuntc
Re: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members
My dad expressed some serious cog dis today about what this meant for prophets being inspired. He's confused...which hopefully will lead to questioning. And he's only 54 for Christ's sake. Feels like a huge part of how he's justified problems in the world is gone as well.

If black people aren't cursed or weren't disobedient in the preexistence then why do people in Africa suffer? How does god allow that?

For the first time he's understanding a little bit of how the world really is.

If this can affect my dad...it could affect anyone.


The 1st FreeAtLast
"Who placed the Negroes originally in darkest Africa?", the apostle asked..
The following text was from LDS apostle Mark Petersen, one of the Mormon Church's "prophets, seers, and revelators" in the latter 20th century:

"Is there reason then why the type of birth we receive in this life is not a reflection of our worthiness or lack of it in the pre-existent life? ... can we account in any other way for the birth of some of the children of God in darkest Africa, or in flood-ridden China, or among the starving hordes of India, while some of the rest of us are born here in the United States? We cannot escape the conclusion that because of performance in our pre-existence some of us are born as Chinese, some as Japanese, some as Latter-day Saints. These are rewards and punishments, fully in harmony with His established policy in dealing with sinners and saints, rewarding all according to their deeds....

"Let us consider the great mercy of God for a moment. A Chinese, born in China with a dark skin, and with all the handicaps of that race seems to have little opportunity. But think of the mercy of God to Chinese people who are willing to accept the gospel. In spite of whatever they might have done in the pre-existence to justify being born over there as Chinamen, if they now, in this life, accept the gospel and live it the rest of their lives they can have the Priesthood, go to the temple and receive endowments and sealings, and that means they can have exaltation. Isn't the mercy of God marvelous?

"Think of the Negro, cursed as to the priesthood.... This Negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa — if that Negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."

(Elder) Mark Petersen, "Race Problems--As They Affect the Church"; J. Willard Marriott Library, University of Utah; http://www.lib.utah.edu/collections/manuscripts.php

Also, see the links at http://www.utlm.org/topicalindexb.htm#Racism


Wilruff
To Fluhist regarding Australian Aboriginals with the Prieshood
In the Melbourne Stake in the early 60's, there was a member of the high council who was part aboriginal
Tupperwhere
Re: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members
it just bothers me that they are trying to make us older members think and believe that we are crazy for remembering this stuff. The older generation like my TBM dad may be able to brush it off like it didn't happen but I'm still pretty sharp and I have a memory similar to an elephant. It's like being forced into a psychiatric hospital by psychiatric patients and the Dr's are confused as to who's crazy and who's not.

Kendal Mint Cake
Re: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members
That's exactly what they're doing. Just like with caffienated drinks. They pretend you made it all up yourself.


Kendal Mint Cake
Re: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members
And the changes to the temple ceremony, and the Adam God doctrine, polygamy in the CK...

Older members know not to speak of older doctrines, lest they send new members fleeing away in droves.


LabansWidow
Re: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members
The ban on "blacks" was always Africans or those of African descent. It never applied to Australian Aborigines, Melanesians,Indians (from India) etc, although some of these people have very dark/black skin. I guess they were too far away for BY or his successors to care about.

I wish my Dad would think about this issue. His opinion is that "the church fixed all this back in 1978 and [he] never believed any of it anyway, so it doesn't matter".

Yes Dad, it does matter..


MarkJ
Breaking trust with the members
When the temple ceremonies changed, I figured that any promises that I made under the old ceremony were nullified.

As the church changes old core doctrine, the GAs have to realize that members will become more and more detached from current core doctrine.

The timing of this may not have been intentional, but waiting 30 years after the initial change to roll out another interpretation "What racism? We were never racist!" seems to try to take advantage of generational turnover.


fluhist
Re: The Church not Only Threw BY under the bus but older members
Thanks Willruff, for the info on the Aboriginal leader in Melbourne. There are lots of Aboriginal people now who are part of tscc. I tutored one at my work. She was great, and had a good, practical hold on the beleifs of tscc.

She was VERy shocked when I told her I was an ex-member, and to her total credit really did listen when I talked about the sort of things that had led me to leave tscc (she asked - so I told her!).

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"