I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>Cheryl Jul 2014</p>\n<p>I don\'t have a cause. Do you? Does RfM have a unified cause we must all follow? I don\'t think so.</p>\n<p>The only overall goal I see here being played out is to recover from our past shared cult experience. Is that the cause posters talk about when they say RfMers are too extreme? I can\'t see that being opposed to racism, sexism, and homophobia is extreme. I think any one of those Mormon precepts would be a valid reason to leave the morg and seek recovery.</p>\n<p>I think \"causes\" are for other sites. This one has a noble intent and that\'s learning to live and function in the world outside of Mormonism while keeping our dignity and esteem as we give up whatever we learned from Mormonism that does not work for us.</p>\n<hr />\nkolobian<br />\nRe: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*<br />\nTotally agree.\n<p>If someone\'s purpose in being here is to try to de-convert mormons, well, good luck with that. There\'s plenty of info out there, but this site is for recovery.</p>\n<p>I don\'t care what mormons think, or what the mormon church does. I just enjoy the dialogue and the different perspectives.</p>\n<hr />\nnotnewatthisanymore<br />\nRe: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*<br />\nAgreed with both of you.\n<p>Admins have said repeatedly that this is not an activist site, but a recovery forum. The fact that it is a lynchpin for many deconversion stories is beside the point. I like this site for what it is, there is a reason it is as big as it is and has been around as long as it has.</p>\n<p>I am beyond caring what Mormons think about me, I am done censoring my opinions to cater to the oversensitive victim complexes of people who don\'t care one whit about trampling all over my beliefs and feelings. If they choose to get butthurt over something they read here and choose to inflict a lifetime of cult on themselves, it only hurts them, not me.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>releve<br />\nRe: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*</p>\n<p>I use RfM as a news source. I don\'t have time everyday to read the Salt Lake Tribune, the Ogden Standard Examiner, the New York Times, Huffington Post, etc., etc., but someone on RfM reads each of them and reports the latest Morg related news.</p>\n<p>I also come here to vent.</p>\n<p>I\'m all for recovery, and I don\'t care what happens to TSCC, but I still want freedom, equality, safety and happiness for all of my friends and relatives who are still controlled by TSCC, I suppose that is a cause.</p>\n<p>We didn\'t get where we are by living in a vacuum. We had influences, we read something, or watched something, or had a conversation that started us on the road we\'re on now. I see no harm in paying it forward.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>jkjkjkjk<br />\nRe: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*</p>\n<p>The reality is, the negative consequences of leaving are lessened if more people leave and this should help recovery.</p>\n<p>There has been a real change over the last year. I think that is indicative of of surge of people leaving. The ramifications of people leaving socially have gone way down as more people leave. It will only get easier.</p>\n<p>The cruelest issue people face is still divorce. Shunning seems to come up less as more people leave.</p>\n<p>I am thinking back to a post around a month ago perhaps by Mr Packham that stated the number of people contacting him about leaving has significantly increased recently. The post about the CES letter going on right now is a real eye opener.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Cheryl<br />\nI see mormons leaving as a side benefit, not a cause or a goal.<br />\nIf they leave, I say good for them. I\'m here to help if I can.</p>\n<p>I don\'t try to get them out. That\'s someone else\'s job. I think it\'s their own doing. If and when they\'re ready, the teacher or impetus is there.</p>\n<hr />\nblueorchid<br />\nRe: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*<br />\nExactly.\n<p>I love shining a light on what Mormonism is. Spotlighting the false doctrine, ludicrous history, and bigotry past and present is a means of recovery. It is part of a process for scrutinizing and refiling everything I learned as a BIC TBM in a new drawer, because I will never forget it, will become immune to its impact, but will always look at it critically now.</p>\n<p>Its just about getting your bearings once you realize you may be lost.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Elder Berry<br />\nRe: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*<br />\nCheryl Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------<br />\n&gt; I think \"causes\" are for other sites.</p>\n<p>Guilty here for being a \"cause\" poster. Susan I/S has called me out on it.</p>\n<p>It think the complete eradication of LDS Inc. would really help my own recovery but it is because I choose to stay with a Mormon woman. Despite all the baggage that means I love her and still try to get her to see the real light of enlightened thinking instead of exclusive, controlling, \"love the sinner\" crap dangerous cult/tribal thinking.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>kestrafinn<br />\nMy only causes in life are to live my life as honestly and enjoyably as I can, and to help those close to me do the same.</p>\n<p>Occasionally that may involve some political or religious ideals to reach particular milestones/goals.</p>\n<p>If my experiences can help someone else who I don\'t know, even just as a perspective to consider... so much the better. :)</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Sparky<br />\nRe: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*<br />\nI\'ve been looking in a bit more lately than I have in the past few years, and rarely comment anymore.</p>\n<p>But this topic piqued my interest.</p>\n<p>I\'m an atheist, for lack of a better term to describe my lack of belief.</p>\n<p>When I first left Mormonism, I felt the need to share with everyone and hoped I could bring people out with me. Not necessarily to atheism, but just out of Mormonism.</p>\n<p>I soon learned that evangelizing anything is just basically obnoxious behavior. Especially if the prospects aren\'t interested.</p>\n<p>For me, I think it was temporary and based on the fact that I was finally free and excited about it.</p>\n<p>Now...I just want everyone to be happy or find happiness. For some that means having the church in their lives.</p>\n<p>It seems like so many exmos who become atheist, become evangelists for an atheist movement of some sort.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>EXON46<br />\nRe: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*</p>\n<p>This site helps you recover. Recovery can happen in many different ways. Some threads help more than others, But you know even when a troll happens by, it may be just what any of us might need to repair our selves. I am not saying we want to tolerate such behavior, but I am glade to have a place to read and discuss things I could not when I was a TBM. Its good to know that I am a good person and not some crazy sinner, because I no longer believe.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>kolobian<br />\nRe: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*<br />\nIf Thomas Monson were secretly recorded with the other puppets laughing loudly about how they\'re defrauding all those stupid sheeple in the church, I\'d worry about the thousands of psychotic, undereducated mormons who would go on killing rampages all over the place.</p>\n<p>You can say it wouldn\'t happen, but it would. Most of the 2 million or so actual members would probably join another cult, or try to restore the true mormonism, but some of them would go absolutely off the reservation.</p>\n<p>I say let them be controlled; let them be contained. Let them be scared into acting right.</p>\n<p>At least until I move somewhere safer...</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Susan I/S<br />\nKolobian I think you would like this book<br />\n<a href=\"http://www.amazon.com/Another-Roadside-Attraction-Tom-Robbins/dp/0553349481/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1404855126&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=another+roadside+attraction\" title=\"http://www.amazon.com/Another-Roadside-Attraction-Tom-Robbins/dp/0553349481/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1404855126&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=another+roadside+attraction\">http://www.amazon.com/Another-Roadside-Attraction-Tom-Robbins/dp/0553349...</a></p>\n<hr />\nkolobian<br />\nRe: Kolobian I think you would like this book<br />\nI\'ll check it out. Thanks!\n<hr />\n<p>Happier<br />\nRe: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*</p>\n<p>I\'m so glad I\'ve found this board. It really has helped me recover. Do some people sound bitter and angry in comments sometimes? Well, yea, but I understand why. Recovery takes a while. It hurts when family and friends push you out of their lives because you no longer believe in the church. I am amazed at all the stuff I hear because I thought I was the only one who had these same experiences as others who left the church. I haven\'t been inside a mormon church in 20 years. I have never officially resigned, but I think I\'m ready now. I just don\'t want anybody showing up at my front door!</p>\n<hr />\n<p>sassypants<br />\nRe: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*<br />\nI agree too, Cheryl.</p>\n<p>I left Mormonism for many reasons, but I officially shut the door on it when I learned my way out of religion. I was so excited about what I was learning about the historicity of the bible as well as other religious beliefs that I enthusiastically wanted to share it with everyone. I irritated the faithful and insensitively stepped on what was often central to other people\'s lives. I regret that now, because all it did was create barriers. People shut down, even if what you\'re telling them is true.</p>\n<p>I think Mormons need to find their way out in their own time. If my family and friends find themselves on that path, then I\'m here to help however I can.</p>\n<p>Now, I\'m on rfm not just for personal recovery but also for the mutual commiseration. I think exmormons share an historical shorthand. My nevermo friends are great but they don\'t understand a lot of what I\'ve been through because they didn\'t grow up or live with Mormonism.</p>\n<hr />\nGreyfort<br />\nRe: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*<br />\nI don\'t have a cause. I just like hanging out with ex-Mos. They\'re people I can relate to.\n<hr />\n<p>Nightingale<br />\nShorthand<br />\nI agree with Cheryl that there is no one great universal \"movement\" for most of us. I can see how some people may yearn for that, or even see it in action in some ways, but as Cheryl and others have said before, we don\'t all have to belong to the big group, whatever or wherever it may be.</p>\n<p>We can identify with each other quite easily and often so it can feel that at times and in many ways we are \"one\", although there is in reality so much diversity amongst exmos.</p>\n<p>sassypants: \"...exmormons share an historical shorthand.\"</p>\n<p>I love this idea. Good way to put it.</p>\n<p>I also agree with Greyfort, and experience it too, that exmos are easy to relate to if you have a background of fundamentalism of any stripe. Many of the issues are similar, even though each faith has its own unique ways. Even nevermos and converts can join in with the \"historical shorthand\" in some ways. I find, however, BICs are on a different wavelength from me in many regards as I did not grow up with a strong affiliation to any particular group, rather just the common herd of \"nominal\" Christians. That definitely makes a difference in what imprints you throughout childhood and the perspectives you are able to bring to this aspect of life as an adult.</p>\n<p>Very interesting topic!</p>\n<hr />\nAnon 4 this<br />\nObviously, not everyone here feels like they\'re part of a cause.<br />\nAnd that\'s fine. We\'re not all activist-type personalities.\n<p>But for those who are, realizing that they\'ve been part of a dangerous, controlling cult and finding their way out can quite naturally lead to a desire to help others who are still trapped. Being a Mormon is not entirely a matter of free will, even for converts, and knowing what the church does to people, it\'s entirely reasonable to want to spare others that suffering if possible.</p>\n<p>I think there\'s room for both kinds of people. We need activists, but we don\'t all need to be one. No one should feel pressured to engage in activism. I think that\'s where activists can become really annoying, especially to people like me who are introverts and just not cut out for work that involves intensive people-contact. Every activist feels like their particular cause is the most important cause in the world, and every activist resents people who seem to be \"doing nothing\" to support their pet issue. That\'s just not fair, and ignores the reality that the world has many problems to solve, and not everyone can be involved in every cause.</p>\n<p>I think sometimes those who are very active in a public way can forget that there are other ways to further a cause\'s aims. For example, I feel very strongly about animal rights, but I am not the kind of person who can get involved in public political activism (for several reasons). But I have still served the cause by taking opportunities to educate people about animal rights issues in a low-key, one-on-one way, and by providing a foster home for animals awaiting adoption. I am making the best contribution to animal welfare that is possible for someone in my circumstances. I think I would even give credit to those who don\'t identify with the cause at all but still provide healthy, happy homes to their animal friends! Just being a good example is a valuable contribution.</p>\n<p>In general, there seems to be a pretty good balance at RFM. People who do feel like saving people from Mormonism is a cause tend to act alone, like leaving notes in BOMs in Marriott hotels or library books. They can feel good about their own efforts without pressuring anyone else to participate, and for the most part, I don\'t think I\'ve seen that kind of pressure here. I don\'t read everything on the board, though.</p>\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1493514633, expire = 1493601033, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:23cc3cd0e8ab979b4dfc26060fda2895' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

Cheryl Jul 2014

I don't have a cause. Do you? Does RfM have a unified cause we must all follow? I don't think so.

The only overall goal I see here being played out is to recover from our past shared cult experience. Is that the cause posters talk about when they say RfMers are too extreme? I can't see that being opposed to racism, sexism, and homophobia is extreme. I think any one of those Mormon precepts would be a valid reason to leave the morg and seek recovery.

I think "causes" are for other sites. This one has a noble intent and that's learning to live and function in the world outside of Mormonism while keeping our dignity and esteem as we give up whatever we learned from Mormonism that does not work for us.


kolobian
Re: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*
Totally agree.

If someone's purpose in being here is to try to de-convert mormons, well, good luck with that. There's plenty of info out there, but this site is for recovery.

I don't care what mormons think, or what the mormon church does. I just enjoy the dialogue and the different perspectives.


notnewatthisanymore
Re: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*
Agreed with both of you.

Admins have said repeatedly that this is not an activist site, but a recovery forum. The fact that it is a lynchpin for many deconversion stories is beside the point. I like this site for what it is, there is a reason it is as big as it is and has been around as long as it has.

I am beyond caring what Mormons think about me, I am done censoring my opinions to cater to the oversensitive victim complexes of people who don't care one whit about trampling all over my beliefs and feelings. If they choose to get butthurt over something they read here and choose to inflict a lifetime of cult on themselves, it only hurts them, not me.


releve
Re: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*

I use RfM as a news source. I don't have time everyday to read the Salt Lake Tribune, the Ogden Standard Examiner, the New York Times, Huffington Post, etc., etc., but someone on RfM reads each of them and reports the latest Morg related news.

I also come here to vent.

I'm all for recovery, and I don't care what happens to TSCC, but I still want freedom, equality, safety and happiness for all of my friends and relatives who are still controlled by TSCC, I suppose that is a cause.

We didn't get where we are by living in a vacuum. We had influences, we read something, or watched something, or had a conversation that started us on the road we're on now. I see no harm in paying it forward.


jkjkjkjk
Re: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*

The reality is, the negative consequences of leaving are lessened if more people leave and this should help recovery.

There has been a real change over the last year. I think that is indicative of of surge of people leaving. The ramifications of people leaving socially have gone way down as more people leave. It will only get easier.

The cruelest issue people face is still divorce. Shunning seems to come up less as more people leave.

I am thinking back to a post around a month ago perhaps by Mr Packham that stated the number of people contacting him about leaving has significantly increased recently. The post about the CES letter going on right now is a real eye opener.


Cheryl
I see mormons leaving as a side benefit, not a cause or a goal.
If they leave, I say good for them. I'm here to help if I can.

I don't try to get them out. That's someone else's job. I think it's their own doing. If and when they're ready, the teacher or impetus is there.


blueorchid
Re: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*
Exactly.

I love shining a light on what Mormonism is. Spotlighting the false doctrine, ludicrous history, and bigotry past and present is a means of recovery. It is part of a process for scrutinizing and refiling everything I learned as a BIC TBM in a new drawer, because I will never forget it, will become immune to its impact, but will always look at it critically now.

Its just about getting your bearings once you realize you may be lost.


Elder Berry
Re: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*
Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think "causes" are for other sites.

Guilty here for being a "cause" poster. Susan I/S has called me out on it.

It think the complete eradication of LDS Inc. would really help my own recovery but it is because I choose to stay with a Mormon woman. Despite all the baggage that means I love her and still try to get her to see the real light of enlightened thinking instead of exclusive, controlling, "love the sinner" crap dangerous cult/tribal thinking.


kestrafinn
My only causes in life are to live my life as honestly and enjoyably as I can, and to help those close to me do the same.

Occasionally that may involve some political or religious ideals to reach particular milestones/goals.

If my experiences can help someone else who I don't know, even just as a perspective to consider... so much the better. :)


Sparky
Re: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*
I've been looking in a bit more lately than I have in the past few years, and rarely comment anymore.

But this topic piqued my interest.

I'm an atheist, for lack of a better term to describe my lack of belief.

When I first left Mormonism, I felt the need to share with everyone and hoped I could bring people out with me. Not necessarily to atheism, but just out of Mormonism.

I soon learned that evangelizing anything is just basically obnoxious behavior. Especially if the prospects aren't interested.

For me, I think it was temporary and based on the fact that I was finally free and excited about it.

Now...I just want everyone to be happy or find happiness. For some that means having the church in their lives.

It seems like so many exmos who become atheist, become evangelists for an atheist movement of some sort.


EXON46
Re: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*

This site helps you recover. Recovery can happen in many different ways. Some threads help more than others, But you know even when a troll happens by, it may be just what any of us might need to repair our selves. I am not saying we want to tolerate such behavior, but I am glade to have a place to read and discuss things I could not when I was a TBM. Its good to know that I am a good person and not some crazy sinner, because I no longer believe.


kolobian
Re: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*
If Thomas Monson were secretly recorded with the other puppets laughing loudly about how they're defrauding all those stupid sheeple in the church, I'd worry about the thousands of psychotic, undereducated mormons who would go on killing rampages all over the place.

You can say it wouldn't happen, but it would. Most of the 2 million or so actual members would probably join another cult, or try to restore the true mormonism, but some of them would go absolutely off the reservation.

I say let them be controlled; let them be contained. Let them be scared into acting right.

At least until I move somewhere safer...


Susan I/S
Kolobian I think you would like this book
http://www.amazon.com/Another-Roadside-Attraction-Tom-Robbins/dp/0553349...


kolobian
Re: Kolobian I think you would like this book
I'll check it out. Thanks!

Happier
Re: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*

I'm so glad I've found this board. It really has helped me recover. Do some people sound bitter and angry in comments sometimes? Well, yea, but I understand why. Recovery takes a while. It hurts when family and friends push you out of their lives because you no longer believe in the church. I am amazed at all the stuff I hear because I thought I was the only one who had these same experiences as others who left the church. I haven't been inside a mormon church in 20 years. I have never officially resigned, but I think I'm ready now. I just don't want anybody showing up at my front door!


sassypants
Re: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*
I agree too, Cheryl.

I left Mormonism for many reasons, but I officially shut the door on it when I learned my way out of religion. I was so excited about what I was learning about the historicity of the bible as well as other religious beliefs that I enthusiastically wanted to share it with everyone. I irritated the faithful and insensitively stepped on what was often central to other people's lives. I regret that now, because all it did was create barriers. People shut down, even if what you're telling them is true.

I think Mormons need to find their way out in their own time. If my family and friends find themselves on that path, then I'm here to help however I can.

Now, I'm on rfm not just for personal recovery but also for the mutual commiseration. I think exmormons share an historical shorthand. My nevermo friends are great but they don't understand a lot of what I've been through because they didn't grow up or live with Mormonism.


Greyfort
Re: I sometimes read RfM posters who worry about *our cause.*
I don't have a cause. I just like hanging out with ex-Mos. They're people I can relate to.

Nightingale
Shorthand
I agree with Cheryl that there is no one great universal "movement" for most of us. I can see how some people may yearn for that, or even see it in action in some ways, but as Cheryl and others have said before, we don't all have to belong to the big group, whatever or wherever it may be.

We can identify with each other quite easily and often so it can feel that at times and in many ways we are "one", although there is in reality so much diversity amongst exmos.

sassypants: "...exmormons share an historical shorthand."

I love this idea. Good way to put it.

I also agree with Greyfort, and experience it too, that exmos are easy to relate to if you have a background of fundamentalism of any stripe. Many of the issues are similar, even though each faith has its own unique ways. Even nevermos and converts can join in with the "historical shorthand" in some ways. I find, however, BICs are on a different wavelength from me in many regards as I did not grow up with a strong affiliation to any particular group, rather just the common herd of "nominal" Christians. That definitely makes a difference in what imprints you throughout childhood and the perspectives you are able to bring to this aspect of life as an adult.

Very interesting topic!


Anon 4 this
Obviously, not everyone here feels like they're part of a cause.
And that's fine. We're not all activist-type personalities.

But for those who are, realizing that they've been part of a dangerous, controlling cult and finding their way out can quite naturally lead to a desire to help others who are still trapped. Being a Mormon is not entirely a matter of free will, even for converts, and knowing what the church does to people, it's entirely reasonable to want to spare others that suffering if possible.

I think there's room for both kinds of people. We need activists, but we don't all need to be one. No one should feel pressured to engage in activism. I think that's where activists can become really annoying, especially to people like me who are introverts and just not cut out for work that involves intensive people-contact. Every activist feels like their particular cause is the most important cause in the world, and every activist resents people who seem to be "doing nothing" to support their pet issue. That's just not fair, and ignores the reality that the world has many problems to solve, and not everyone can be involved in every cause.

I think sometimes those who are very active in a public way can forget that there are other ways to further a cause's aims. For example, I feel very strongly about animal rights, but I am not the kind of person who can get involved in public political activism (for several reasons). But I have still served the cause by taking opportunities to educate people about animal rights issues in a low-key, one-on-one way, and by providing a foster home for animals awaiting adoption. I am making the best contribution to animal welfare that is possible for someone in my circumstances. I think I would even give credit to those who don't identify with the cause at all but still provide healthy, happy homes to their animal friends! Just being a good example is a valuable contribution.

In general, there seems to be a pretty good balance at RFM. People who do feel like saving people from Mormonism is a cause tend to act alone, like leaving notes in BOMs in Marriott hotels or library books. They can feel good about their own efforts without pressuring anyone else to participate, and for the most part, I don't think I've seen that kind of pressure here. I don't read everything on the board, though.

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"