Oaks Admits Apostolic Arrogance.
by baura Mar 2012
The Mormon-sponsored Youtube video of Oaks admitting the Church is losing the 20-30 year old men he makes an interesting statement. He talks about AFTER he was called to be an apostle he was assigned to the missionary committee and told to assign missionaries. He claims he asked Bruce R. McConkie, "how do you know where to assign them?" The answer is telling: It starts at about 3:00 in the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93XqR6IOcAw
"He said, 'you're the servant of the Lord, and YOUR action is the Lord's action. You study it out in your mind, and you assign them, and they're assigned by the Lord."
So they don't need to actually get recognizable revelation. They just study it out in THEIR mind, then THEY make a decision and then they claim it's the Lord doing it.
In today's Mormon Church revelation goes from the leaders to God, not the other way around.
This was also implied by an interview Spencer W. Kimball gave after the so-called "revelation" ending racist practices in 1978. He was asked how it came about.
He answered: "I asked the Twelve not to go home when the time came. . . . I offered the final prayer and I told the Lord that if it wasn't right, if He didn't want this change to come in the Church, that I would be true to it all the rest of my life. . . ."
In other words the "revelation" was already decided BEFORE it was "taken to the Lord." They prayed and took the fact that they felt good about what they had already decided to mean the Lord wants it. In other words--"If we like it it MUST be from God."
That's how revelation happens these days. Members of top 15 feel good about something and then they CLAIM that the Lord told them when it was really the other way around.
Mrs. Estzerhaus
Yep, hilarious, isn't it?
Lucky
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Lucky
freeman
Re: Oaks Admits Apostolic Arrogance.
Any Priesthold holding man who has ever given a blessing will know that revelation works like this. YOU think it up, and if it feels good, it is from God!
It is really only an extension of how all decisions are made by all church members. They are encouraged to "think it out in their minds" first, or in other words figure it our for themselves, and then approach God with it in prayer. If God gives them warm fuzzies then its true; if God does nothing then its true, otherwise he would intervene. If God intervenes and tells them its not true then they need to go away and rethink and come up with the right answer. Naturally, 99% of the time the answer you come up with is the "right" answer. The other 1% you weren't quite convinced and probably took it to God prematurely.
no-mo-mo
Re: Oaks Admits Apostolic Arrogance.
Magic 8-Ball.
amos2
Ho-ly-sh-!t
The church is their OWN worst PR!
This video alone is a damning view of the church's misogynism.
Any conscientious person would be shocked by this.
1. The view...all white men in suits...it looks like nothing you'd see anywhere in secular society, no women...but they're TALKING about women condescendingly.
2. The audience asks a question...how do bishops handle the rising rate of disaffections of young women?
Answer: Work on the men. The women are leaving because they can't find a man at church. Young men are leaving at a higher rate than the women. So, we need more men to retain the women...uh, yea. But as if that weren't bad enough...
...The women have to stop whining about the Lord not providing them a husband on the timeline they expected...they have to get on with their lives, careersm, and just accept that the Lord may not give them marriage in this life.
S E R I O U S L Y ???????????????????????????????
The counsel of the church, to young single women who can't find a TBM husband, is to FUGETTABOWDIT?
No partner? No intimacy? For life?
(and this is right after Oaks bragged that he remarried as an old man)
Sisters, maybe you'll marry a 70 year old widowed apostle when you're 60...so cheer up.
JoD3:360
Re: Oaks Admits Apostolic Arrogance.
And if you feel uneasy, it could be the devil trying to thwart your efforts! How can I possibly know whether my course is correct? What sin have I committed or ommitted?
ladell T
Re: Oaks Admits Apostolic Arrogance.
sounds like it is time to reinstate plural marriage.
mrtranquility
Weasily justification is how you skirt the cognitive dissonance.
The gerontocracy at the COB knows 'ol Jeebus doesn't hang with them, so they have to have some kind of mechanism to relieve the cog dis. Although I am sure the more narcissistic of them never reach the point of cog dis. They work on a level that normal people don't understand.
WiserWomanNow
In short, the leaders' will is God's will
Emma's Flaming Sword
that was creepy
all these repressed looking men talking about the lonely women folk. I was cringing.
Probitas est optimus
Check out Video at 46 seconds
Love how they are trying to show someone with scriptures open but Bishop or SP is in background texting or playing angry birds!!
JoD3:360
And this, my friends, is what is wrong with the church
He states here that this lesson on choosing mishies is the same principle under which Bishops are to operate- you are the servant of the Lord and what you decide is what the Lord decides.
Members are taught from the earliest youth to believe that their Bishop or Stake President speaks for the Lord in everything. Bishops like to remind members that when they have a Temple Recommend Interview, worthiness interview, or any counsel given, that it is to be accepted as if the Lord himself had spoken.
Members are taught that to second guess or question the direction given, or the qualifications of the Priesthood holder giving the direction or interview is to allow the Adversary into their lives and step closer to Apostasy and possibly forfeit their eternal blessings.
Members are taught that good feelings are God speaking. Leaders know that all they have to do is speak and their membership will follow simply by virtue of being the Priesthood leader, and the same happens at home.
Members are taught that the judgements given by their Bishop are binding in Heaven. They also see the vast difference in how a different Bishop will judge the same issue, or how a repentant person will get a less favorable outcome than a full-tithe paying less sincere person will recieve. Yet they are to try to reconcile that they somehow were less righteous in Heavenly Fathers eyes, as evidenced by the divinely authorized and unequal judgements given by the Bishop/CommonJudge.
JoD3:360
Oops- meant to include these:
I remember years ago when I was a Bishop I had President [Heber J.] Grant talk to our ward. After the meeting I drove him home…. Standing by me, he put his arm over my shoulder and said: "My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it." Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, "But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray."
Author: Ezra Taft Benson
Source: Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson
Page: 137
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"Public debate—the means of resolving differences in a democratic government—is not appropriate in our Church government. We are all subject to the authority of the called and sustained servants of the Lord. They and we are all governed by the direction of the Spirit of the Lord, and that Spirit only functions in an atmosphere of unity. That is why personal differences about Church doctrine or procedure need to be worked out privately."
- Apostle Dallin H. Oaks, “Criticism,” Ensign, Feb. 1987, page 68
---------------
I have often heard Bensons quote used in the case of Bishops, though I can't seem to find the source. But I have heard many times that if the Bishop is wrong, you will be blessed for following his counsel, but you cannot be blessed for rebelling.
Dallin A. Chokes
Re: Oaks Admits Apostolic Arrogance.
I don't know that this is too surprising--as missionaries, we were told to "study it out in our minds" first, reach a decision, and THEN ask. Apparently, God's a tease and won't just give you a freebie answer. You have to approach with an answer, then he will tell you if you're getting warmer or colder (think "stupor of thought"). One of my favorite examples that people like to trot out all the time is that of the Brother of Jared in Ether.
"Aw, crap--it's going to be dark in those boats! What should I do?"
"You figure it out."
"Hmmm. Hmmmm. I know! I'll collect some rocks and Jesus can touch them with his finger. Of course!"
"That's the best you could come up with? Okay...."
So, in any revelation situation, the burden is on the person who wants revelation, who must figure it out by themselves then ask for the Holy Seal of Approval. Naturally, this ends with people feeling inspired, because after they've already figured out a solution to their problems, God will give them the thumbs up.
schweizerkind
That is so f****** disgusting.
notamomo
Re: Oaks Admits Apostolic Arrogance.
An all-male panel, and not a word about the evils of contraception! ;)
reasonabledoubt
Re: Oaks Admits Apostolic Arrogance.
"In a couple of weeks nobody will remember anything I said!"
Haha -- now we know why the Morg thinks it's okay to flip-flop doctrine, they don't think anybody can remember.
oddcouplet
Re: Oaks Admits Apostolic Arrogance.
He may have just been speaking about his own memory. Dallin ain't much spryer than most of the Brethren you know.
pkdfan
Amos 2 - I had exactly the same reaction!&
Dr B.
Arrogant Asses who think the lord approves of something because that person believes they are right. These individuals are on Satan's side not the Lord! The lord's guidelines are clear from personal experience and if you have an open mind versus the closed type of TBM's He will answer - this is from personal experience. These men are not prophets nor leaders. Read the 14 points of Following the Prophet by Ezra Taft Benson, Conference talks October 2010 and Lesson manuel Feb 20 to March 20th 2011 for confirmation of this attitude. They are dictators and put themselves above God. He is only an afterthought to them.
Chris Deanna
Re: Oaks Admits Apostolic Arrogance.
Too many of my "sister" friends are waiting for Peter Priesthoods to come along--most now too old to have biological children (I am waiting for my final divorce papers to be signed to legally get me away from an Evil Ex who pretends to be Peter Priesthood.)
In this church clip, they started out right here. Sounded like a man (identified as a bishop or stake president--and yes all white guys look alike) genuinely asking for guidance for the single sisters over whom he has stewardship and then even the right problem is identified, (paraphrasing) men are leaving the church in droves in their 20s and 30s and then NOTHING is addressed to help these brethren resolve THAT problem. Instead, it's the old bait and switch: back to the women and tell them to stop their yapping and grousing and get on with life cause "ain't no body gonna be good enough for the standards they have been taught." And isn't it nice that this lesson seems to have been taught to Oaks by his second wife who FOUND A HUSBAND and actually hit the jackpot since he is an apostle! My best missionary companion just married the man of her dreams ( a good man, non-member) that she met at a nudist colony...I can't make this stuff up! I wouldn't marry another mormon (this is my 2nd rodeo) if he showed me the plates of brass.
desert_vulture
Re: Oaks Admits Apostolic Arrogance.
Nephi following Oaks: "Hmmm.. should I cut off this drunk guy's head and steal his @#$%&?" "Hmmm... what if I get caught..." Nah, who's gonna catch me, if I put on his clothes.." "yeah, I think that's the way to go.. I get a free servant.. I get free stuff.. Then my dad thinks I'm a bad-ass.. My stupid brothers leave me the hell alone.. Yeah, plus this guy's a worthless drunk.. He deserves to die.. I'll bet God put him here JUST so I could kill him.. yeah, that's the ticket.. Sorry, Laban, but GOD just told me to!
darth jesus
Re: Oaks Admits Apostolic Arrogance.
god that background music is annoying...
"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"