Mormon Website - MormonsandGays

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>sherlock Dec. 2012</p>\n<p>From the new Mormon website:</p>\n<p>\"We believe that with an eternal perspective, a person’s attraction to the same sex can be addressed and borne as a mortal test. It should not be viewed as a permanent condition\".</p>\n<p>But isn\'t this really, really insulting to a gay person? Telling them that an important intrinsic part of their nature is just temporary and a \'problem\' to bear with for a period of time?</p>\n<p>What if they are very happy being gay? What if they have no desire to change? What if the very thought of future relations with a woman is completely repulsive?</p>\n<p>I\'m heterosexual and I feel it is an inate part of me. If the tables were turned I would be mortified if a church tried to tell me that I just need to live a loveless life because I will be transformed into a homosexual in the next life.</p>\n<p>I imagine that the only person that the quote will appease is the tragic gay member that has been completely brainwashed and guilted by the church to the degree that they absolutely hate themselves and are desperate to change to fit the church\'s model.</p>\n<hr />\nMJ<br />\nYes, that web site is very insulting.\n<hr />\n<p>caddis<br />\nRe: \'Being gay\' isn\'t a permanent condition?<br />\nNice. First paragraph states it isn\'t a choice, then they label it a condition.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>ambivalent exmo<br />\nRe: \'Being gay\' isn\'t a permanent condition?<br />\nWhat the Hell?<br />\nIdiots.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>gracewarrior<br />\nRe: \'Being gay\' isn\'t a permanent condition?<br />\nI think the OP hit the nail on the head. The whole purpose of the website is to state that their is some \"problem\" or \"issue\" with someone being gay. It is all designed to insinuate that there is a problem with someone being gay.</p>\n<p>The website insults gay people by repeating the mantra, \"Same-Sex Attraction.\" It is as though they do not want to acknowledge a key part of someone\'s identity.</p>\n<p>It irritates me that the website says that being gay is part of a \"mortal test.\" Again, the purpose is to insinuate that being gay is a problem that must be overcome.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Mateo Pastor<br />\nRe: \'Being gay\' isn\'t a permanent condition?<br />\nI am very far beyond the point where I found this insulting. I can understand it is insulting for teens or even adults who are not yet at ease with their homosexuality, but I just pity those who still think of it as a phase on the road to glorious heterosexuality.</p>\n<p>Some critics have already argued that anyone who sees homosexuality as a choice or a phase or a passing fad must really be bisexual themselves, but have decided to choose a heterosexual lifestyle. And as the many gay scandals with homophobic christians prove, they rarely manage to keep the promise they made to themselves or their monster in the sky.</p>\n<hr />\nozpoof<br />\nRe: \'Being gay\' isn\'t a permanent condition?<br />\nEPIC FAIL - again. This cult doesn\'t have a clue. If only they were led by a God or some sh!t instead of a bunch of incontinent old fools.\n<hr />\n<p>Makurosu<br />\nRe: \'Being gay\' isn\'t a permanent condition?<br />\nNice catch. I didn\'t see that \"not a permanent condition\" foolishness when I first read that website. I wish I could understand the Mormon church\'s commitment to bigotry. They can put anything they want in the mouth of their god. It\'s a shame that they have to be on the wrong side of every issue.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>RockyMountainLvr</p>\n<p>I\'m suspicious! Considering the unwritten rules and unwritten order of things, I think the morg is trying to become politically correct which will result in a new second class of people in the morg.</p>\n<p>Perhaps its a start to equality, but I\'m not holding my breath.</p>\n<hr />\nshadowspade<br />\nRe: New Mormon and Gays Website<br />\nI really wonder how they will get out of this corner they\'ve painted themselves into. More and more science is coming out and it\'s becoming undeniable that homosexuality is simply a normal variation of human sexuality. The church can only deny that for so long. This isn\'t like blacks and the priesthood, this is a much tougher position they\'ve put themselves in. I just wonder how things will unfold on this issue for the church in the next, say 30 years.\n<hr />\nxyz<br />\nRe: New Mormon and Gays Website<br />\nIt is most definitely NOT a move toward equality.\n<p>Stay with your Spidey-sense suspicions.</p>\n<hr />\npaulbot<br />\nRe: New Mormon and Gays Website<br />\n<a href=\"http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2244237/Mormon-church-accepts-people-dont-choose-gay-acting-sex-attraction-sin.html\" title=\"http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2244237/Mormon-church-accepts-people-dont-choose-gay-acting-sex-attraction-sin.html\">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2244237/Mormon-church-accepts-pe...</a>\n<p>Feel free to leave comments. They do a great deal of Mormon stories.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>axeldc<br />\nMy TBM BIL just emailed me about it<br />\nApparently, he thinks better of me now that the church is changing its tune on gays.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>intjsegry<br />\nRe: New Mormon and Gays Website<br />\nEquality? Try cover up and PR control. This has nothing to do with equality... remember, at heart, they are a corporation of white, rich men who want to stay in power and rich... if that means bending a little to appear tolerant, so be it.</p>\n<p>I had a friend who is gay, he tried to be mormon. Went to a \"gay singles gay ward.\" After moving to Korea for a few years to teach english, he came back and realized that the whole \"gay tolerance\" is a way of saying \"Oh, look, we\'re pc\". He was told all the time \"we accept you, just not your lifestyle.\" Oh, please. This is a line my father uses all the time...</p>\n<p>This is like saying \"We accept you as a person, but not the things you do.\" Imagine what you would do if someone said to a heterosexual person \"We accept you, but not your dirty, vulgar, sinning sexual thoughts towards people of the opposite sex.\"</p>\n<p>Detestable right? Why is being gay any different?</p>\n<p>Anyone who says homosexuality is wrong, because \"god said so\" or \"because it is abnormal\" or \"because I am uncomfortable about it\" or \"I don\'t know what to say to my kids\" are:</p>\n<p>1) Deluded<br />\n2) Unaware that nature has always had homosexual tendencies in animals, mammals, insects and humans<br />\n3) Has no right to make their inability to control their \"ick\" center the reason for a law<br />\n4) Needs to grow a pair, and teach their kids tolerance and science.</p>\n<p>The Mormon church is</p>\n<p>1) Deluded<br />\n2) Ignores science when convenient (so mostly)<br />\n3) Makes laws and sins out of behavior it does not understand<br />\n4) Teaches kids to ignore science, and to only associate with those who are of \"their kind.\"</p>\n<p>Remember the temple interview questions?</p>\n<p>\"Do you associate or sympathize anyone or any group that is directly in conflict or contradiction to the church\'s doctrines?\"</p>\n<p>So, how can ANYONE think this is a move towards equality in a church who\'s entire message is about \"We are the best\"- \"every one else is wrong\" - \"god only talks to us\" oh, and \"We are better because god revealed to us you are all bad and wrong.\"??</p>\n<hr />\n<p>mondaymorning<br />\nRe: New Mormon and Gays Website<br />\nWhat a garbage website. All they\'re trying to do is convince people to ignore their sexual tendencies so they don\'t leave the church and stop paying tithing. It\'s all about money. If they flat out reject gay people they lose money, but if they openly accept them they\'ll lose some conservative members who will think they\'ve gone astray and lose money.</p>\n<p>It\'s all about money. They don\'t care about people, only those people\'s money.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>karin<br />\nRe: New Mormon and Gays Website<br />\nI am thankful that people on this board expressed their feelings so i could be made aware of and then change my views re lgbt, as i was in the \'celibate\' camp, not realizing how bad that thinking still was. I was, however, also for gay unions so gay partners would have the same rights as married partners. I am in my late forties, so it\'s not just the young people who are becoming more tolerant of different li festyles because of hearing (reading) about people\'s feelings.</p>\n<p>I live in Canada where we already have gay marriage (and i didn\'t sign the petition going around our ward about stopping it). Now i am soooo thankful i didn\'t. I didn\'t feel i had enuf info to be against it, so to me it was a non-issue.</p>\n<p>But it was the people on this board who let me see inside their souls and turn from \'it\'s not my issue, so i won\'t do anything either for or against it\' to gay marriage is just as important as hetro marriage, for those who want the perks of formality.</p>\n<p>I was one of those who didn\'t have any close family or friends who i knew were gay, so i\'m glad there were people here to help bring me into the 21st century. thank you.</p>\n<p>thank you for making me more tolerant of people\'s rights. </p>\n<hr />\n<p>RockyMountainLvr<br />\nRe: New Mormon and Gays Website<br />\nSome thoughts...</p>\n<p>If the church supposedly receives revelation from God then why didn\'t this church lead the way and form this position forty years ago? TSCC seem more reactive to me.</p>\n<p>Another thought, is the church going to allow those who practice a gay lifestyle to serve in the church (e.g. church callings, etc.) or is it going to shun gay people who practice the lifestyle. Holland sayes TSCC doesn\'t formally shun.</p>\n<p>TSCC [this so called church\\ says members should \"love\" gay people. What does that mean?</p>\n<hr />\nxyz<br />\nRe: New Mormon and Gays Website<br />\nThey shun:\n<p>No \"out\" homosexual member is allowed anywhere near the Primary, Junior SS, or Boy Scouts.</p>\n<p>As for your first comment, I guess that answers the question about whether modern revelation is real or not. LOL!</p>\n<hr />\ncl2<br />\nYep, the church who claims to have modern revelation<br />\nThat is what I was taught . . . until I asked for an answer on this very subject--from BKP (and the bishops and SPs and LDS SS therapists)--and not a one of them had an answer. They had some definitely wrong answers.\n<p>I just couldn\'t believe my \"ears.\" There had to be MORE to this than they were leading me to believe. This subject ALONE proved to me they aren\'t what they claim to be.</p>\n<p>They are more concerned about how many earrings you wear, white shirts, or going on missions a year or 2 earlier--why should they care about the gays and their families? Because they have no revelation whatsoever.</p>\n<hr />\npopeyes<br />\nRe: New Mormon and Gays Website<br />\nThe name is awful \"MormonsandGays.com\". It is like they are mutually exclusive.\n<hr />\n<p>rationalguy<br />\nRe: New Mormon and Gays Website<br />\nYes, I agree. They are most certainly calibrating this based on a curve of maximized tithing income. It\'s a tightrope they are walking. There is no position change at all, just some comforting words about acceptance (with conditions.)</p>\n<p>They can\'t change their position because it\'s based on the biblical BS that gay is sin. The web site still reads clearly \"SSA is a defect, a shortcoming, a challenge.\" They haven\'t changed.</p>\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1492934177, expire = 1493020577, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:d32135bb051799737bd28b262cfc76f2' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

sherlock Dec. 2012

From the new Mormon website:

"We believe that with an eternal perspective, a person’s attraction to the same sex can be addressed and borne as a mortal test. It should not be viewed as a permanent condition".

But isn't this really, really insulting to a gay person? Telling them that an important intrinsic part of their nature is just temporary and a 'problem' to bear with for a period of time?

What if they are very happy being gay? What if they have no desire to change? What if the very thought of future relations with a woman is completely repulsive?

I'm heterosexual and I feel it is an inate part of me. If the tables were turned I would be mortified if a church tried to tell me that I just need to live a loveless life because I will be transformed into a homosexual in the next life.

I imagine that the only person that the quote will appease is the tragic gay member that has been completely brainwashed and guilted by the church to the degree that they absolutely hate themselves and are desperate to change to fit the church's model.


MJ
Yes, that web site is very insulting.

caddis
Re: 'Being gay' isn't a permanent condition?
Nice. First paragraph states it isn't a choice, then they label it a condition.


ambivalent exmo
Re: 'Being gay' isn't a permanent condition?
What the Hell?
Idiots.


gracewarrior
Re: 'Being gay' isn't a permanent condition?
I think the OP hit the nail on the head. The whole purpose of the website is to state that their is some "problem" or "issue" with someone being gay. It is all designed to insinuate that there is a problem with someone being gay.

The website insults gay people by repeating the mantra, "Same-Sex Attraction." It is as though they do not want to acknowledge a key part of someone's identity.

It irritates me that the website says that being gay is part of a "mortal test." Again, the purpose is to insinuate that being gay is a problem that must be overcome.


Mateo Pastor
Re: 'Being gay' isn't a permanent condition?
I am very far beyond the point where I found this insulting. I can understand it is insulting for teens or even adults who are not yet at ease with their homosexuality, but I just pity those who still think of it as a phase on the road to glorious heterosexuality.

Some critics have already argued that anyone who sees homosexuality as a choice or a phase or a passing fad must really be bisexual themselves, but have decided to choose a heterosexual lifestyle. And as the many gay scandals with homophobic christians prove, they rarely manage to keep the promise they made to themselves or their monster in the sky.


ozpoof
Re: 'Being gay' isn't a permanent condition?
EPIC FAIL - again. This cult doesn't have a clue. If only they were led by a God or some sh!t instead of a bunch of incontinent old fools.

Makurosu
Re: 'Being gay' isn't a permanent condition?
Nice catch. I didn't see that "not a permanent condition" foolishness when I first read that website. I wish I could understand the Mormon church's commitment to bigotry. They can put anything they want in the mouth of their god. It's a shame that they have to be on the wrong side of every issue.


RockyMountainLvr

I'm suspicious! Considering the unwritten rules and unwritten order of things, I think the morg is trying to become politically correct which will result in a new second class of people in the morg.

Perhaps its a start to equality, but I'm not holding my breath.


shadowspade
Re: New Mormon and Gays Website
I really wonder how they will get out of this corner they've painted themselves into. More and more science is coming out and it's becoming undeniable that homosexuality is simply a normal variation of human sexuality. The church can only deny that for so long. This isn't like blacks and the priesthood, this is a much tougher position they've put themselves in. I just wonder how things will unfold on this issue for the church in the next, say 30 years.
xyz
Re: New Mormon and Gays Website
It is most definitely NOT a move toward equality.

Stay with your Spidey-sense suspicions.


paulbot
Re: New Mormon and Gays Website
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2244237/Mormon-church-accepts-pe...

Feel free to leave comments. They do a great deal of Mormon stories.


axeldc
My TBM BIL just emailed me about it
Apparently, he thinks better of me now that the church is changing its tune on gays.


intjsegry
Re: New Mormon and Gays Website
Equality? Try cover up and PR control. This has nothing to do with equality... remember, at heart, they are a corporation of white, rich men who want to stay in power and rich... if that means bending a little to appear tolerant, so be it.

I had a friend who is gay, he tried to be mormon. Went to a "gay singles gay ward." After moving to Korea for a few years to teach english, he came back and realized that the whole "gay tolerance" is a way of saying "Oh, look, we're pc". He was told all the time "we accept you, just not your lifestyle." Oh, please. This is a line my father uses all the time...

This is like saying "We accept you as a person, but not the things you do." Imagine what you would do if someone said to a heterosexual person "We accept you, but not your dirty, vulgar, sinning sexual thoughts towards people of the opposite sex."

Detestable right? Why is being gay any different?

Anyone who says homosexuality is wrong, because "god said so" or "because it is abnormal" or "because I am uncomfortable about it" or "I don't know what to say to my kids" are:

1) Deluded
2) Unaware that nature has always had homosexual tendencies in animals, mammals, insects and humans
3) Has no right to make their inability to control their "ick" center the reason for a law
4) Needs to grow a pair, and teach their kids tolerance and science.

The Mormon church is

1) Deluded
2) Ignores science when convenient (so mostly)
3) Makes laws and sins out of behavior it does not understand
4) Teaches kids to ignore science, and to only associate with those who are of "their kind."

Remember the temple interview questions?

"Do you associate or sympathize anyone or any group that is directly in conflict or contradiction to the church's doctrines?"

So, how can ANYONE think this is a move towards equality in a church who's entire message is about "We are the best"- "every one else is wrong" - "god only talks to us" oh, and "We are better because god revealed to us you are all bad and wrong."??


mondaymorning
Re: New Mormon and Gays Website
What a garbage website. All they're trying to do is convince people to ignore their sexual tendencies so they don't leave the church and stop paying tithing. It's all about money. If they flat out reject gay people they lose money, but if they openly accept them they'll lose some conservative members who will think they've gone astray and lose money.

It's all about money. They don't care about people, only those people's money.


karin
Re: New Mormon and Gays Website
I am thankful that people on this board expressed their feelings so i could be made aware of and then change my views re lgbt, as i was in the 'celibate' camp, not realizing how bad that thinking still was. I was, however, also for gay unions so gay partners would have the same rights as married partners. I am in my late forties, so it's not just the young people who are becoming more tolerant of different li festyles because of hearing (reading) about people's feelings.

I live in Canada where we already have gay marriage (and i didn't sign the petition going around our ward about stopping it). Now i am soooo thankful i didn't. I didn't feel i had enuf info to be against it, so to me it was a non-issue.

But it was the people on this board who let me see inside their souls and turn from 'it's not my issue, so i won't do anything either for or against it' to gay marriage is just as important as hetro marriage, for those who want the perks of formality.

I was one of those who didn't have any close family or friends who i knew were gay, so i'm glad there were people here to help bring me into the 21st century. thank you.

thank you for making me more tolerant of people's rights.


RockyMountainLvr
Re: New Mormon and Gays Website
Some thoughts...

If the church supposedly receives revelation from God then why didn't this church lead the way and form this position forty years ago? TSCC seem more reactive to me.

Another thought, is the church going to allow those who practice a gay lifestyle to serve in the church (e.g. church callings, etc.) or is it going to shun gay people who practice the lifestyle. Holland sayes TSCC doesn't formally shun.

TSCC [this so called church\ says members should "love" gay people. What does that mean?


xyz
Re: New Mormon and Gays Website
They shun:

No "out" homosexual member is allowed anywhere near the Primary, Junior SS, or Boy Scouts.

As for your first comment, I guess that answers the question about whether modern revelation is real or not. LOL!


cl2
Yep, the church who claims to have modern revelation
That is what I was taught . . . until I asked for an answer on this very subject--from BKP (and the bishops and SPs and LDS SS therapists)--and not a one of them had an answer. They had some definitely wrong answers.

I just couldn't believe my "ears." There had to be MORE to this than they were leading me to believe. This subject ALONE proved to me they aren't what they claim to be.

They are more concerned about how many earrings you wear, white shirts, or going on missions a year or 2 earlier--why should they care about the gays and their families? Because they have no revelation whatsoever.


popeyes
Re: New Mormon and Gays Website
The name is awful "MormonsandGays.com". It is like they are mutually exclusive.

rationalguy
Re: New Mormon and Gays Website
Yes, I agree. They are most certainly calibrating this based on a curve of maximized tithing income. It's a tightrope they are walking. There is no position change at all, just some comforting words about acceptance (with conditions.)

They can't change their position because it's based on the biblical BS that gay is sin. The web site still reads clearly "SSA is a defect, a shortcoming, a challenge." They haven't changed.

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"