Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>by toolong Jan 2012</p>\n<p>Couldn\'t help it- it was just sitting there on the desk and she was in the shower- she has been writing it and fretting about it all week. It sounds like the topic is faith- to which she states: \"many of you know of my personal trial\" (code for husband Toolong\'s aposatacy) \"The only thing I can do is have faith that heavenly father will help my family every day.\"</p>\n<p>I\'m sure the congregation will eat it up and give her much love and hugs afterword. Well I\'m sorry I am now cosidered a trial. Maybe I should just quit my job, sell the nice house and cars, stop the fun vacations and getaways, spend the college fund on tithing and fast offerings---and go back to church so I can remove this burden from my family.</p>\n<p>Give me a break- this is so laughable, it\'s hard to believe adults act this way. Her trial will really start when I leave her high and dry.</p>\n<hr />\ncl2<br />\nWow! I\'m sorry!<br />\nMy TBM daughter tends to leave things around she wants me to read--otherwise, she hides her journals, etc. I\'ve been burned a few times by reading those things! (Our relationship has improved a lot in the past year--and she actually wrote a blog about how thankful she is for me.)\n<hr />\n<p>2thdoc<br />\nWow, can I ever relate<br />\nI\'m right there with ya, Toolong.</p>\n<p>My wife\'s patriarchal blessing mentions that she will have to endure \"trials and tribulations\" in her life, and my having quit going to church has finally made her P.B. come true! Up until a few years ago she was always bewildered by that part, because she admitted her life was so plush. From the perspective of most of the world, my wife truly has an enviable life with a beautiful family, financial security, and a faithful and loving husband. But all she seems able to do (at least around other TBMs) is to dwell on her victimhood (ohhh, the trial of having an inactive husband). And you\'re right: others just eat it up, giving her hugs of sympathy and words of encouragement. Makes me sick.</p>\n<p>I don\'t have any words of comfort except for you to know that there\'s someone else out there feeling exactly the same way as you. Best wishes.</p>\n<hr />\nCan\'t Resist<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nCall her out on it.\n<p>Send her to sacrament meeting with the spirit of fear. Fear of loosing it all... See if her faith pulls her through. See how comforting those hugs are in the face of that fear.</p>\n<p>Better yet, show up to sacrament.</p>\n<p>What a breach of trust and loyalty. It sucks.</p>\n<hr />\ntoolong<br />\nRe: Wow! I\'m sorry!<br />\nHow long did it take for your relationship with her to start to improve? My situation is going on three years with no end in sight. I\'m glad your daughter recognizes you for who you are instead on viewing you just in the context of the church.\n<hr />\ntoolong<br />\nRe: Wow, can I ever relate<br />\nExactly! Thanks for responding, at least I know I\'m not alone in all this weirdness. Good luck! I hope it improves for you somehow-\n<hr />\n<p>sam<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nI am sure many people on this board relate to your comment in one way or another.</p>\n<p>There are so many posts that obviously relate to family problems because of this church. Isn\'t it so sad that JS is put ahead of spouse and family in so many situations?</p>\n<p>In my case, I had serious marital problems that had nothing to do with the church (I think) but the dynamics of the church added another obstacle I could not overcome.</p>\n<p>I have learned (the hard way) that nothing else can be or should be more important than your spouse in a truly loving relationship. The church is so damaging and hurts so many when it becomes more important than your spouse.</p>\n<hr />\nHelen<br />\nI\'m wondering if you could actually say something like this<br />\n\"Honey, I bet you figured by leaving this out I\'d read it. Well I did. I Wish we could talk how I am your personal trial instead of you standing up in sacrament meeting and telling them I am your trial. And the trial dear for me is that you want me to believe something that isn\'t true for me.\"\n<p>Or print out this whole thread and ask her to read it.</p>\n<p>Makes \"Families, isn\'t it about time?\" such a farse.</p>\n<hr />\nforbiddencokedrinker<br />\nRe: Wow! I\'m sorry!<br />\nWhen my parents left the church, it put a major strain on our relationship, for years, until I realized that the church was BS, and that I would rather have a relationship with them then with Jesus.\n<p>Besides, even if the church somehow turned out to be true, half my family is going Telestrial Kingdom, and that sounds like a much funner place.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>insanitee<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nI hear you loud and clear. I\'m pretty sure I\'m considered one of those \"trials\" in my spouse\'s life, even though I\'m supportive, faithful, sacrificed much to get my college education for the betterment of my family, and hold down 2 jobs to reduce my wife\'s workload. My biggest sin is that I consider church to be the biggest bore of my life, a considerable waste of time and resources, and a very depressing way to spend a \"day of rest\", and yet I still go. At least to the sacrament. Add to this that her sibling and significant other is now in our ward, tanking any \"comfort\" level I have with at least being with my wife and kid.</p>\n<p>Someday I hope that she will see that this is my decision, and not one I will ever force upon her or our kid, but the look I get when I tell her I\'ll come back for them after the block says otherwise. I hate what this church does to the families of people that have the audacity to think outside the pulpit.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Quoth the Raven \"Nevermo\"<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nThe morg might pretend it is mainstream, but in mainstream christian religions people don\'t get up in front of the congregation to bad mouth their spouse for having different beliefs. It would be considered absolutely poor taste. But, the morg and poor taste seem to go hand in hand.</p>\n<p>Quoth the Raven \"Nevermo\"<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\ntoolong Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------<br />\n&gt; Give me a break- this is so laughable, it\'s hard<br />\n&gt; to believe adults act this way. Her trial will<br />\n&gt; really start when I leave her high and dry.</p>\n<p>How old are your kids? Are you staying around until the kids hit college age?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>munchybotaz<br />\nThat really sux.<br />\nAnd I mean that there is some super shitty @#$%&amp; that she\'s left for you to find. Are you going to confront her before she leaves? I would.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Mia<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nWhy mo\'s think it\'s ok to stand at the pulpit and throw family members under the bus, is beyond me.<br />\nAfter humiliating you in front of every one at church, why would you ever step foot in that church again?<br />\nHow would she like it if you told all of your friends she was a burden, but you have faith that burden would be lifted some day?<br />\nI\'m sure she would feel, hurt, threatened, and fearful.<br />\nThe church teaches members how to be thoughtless emotional and spiritual abusers.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>guynoirprivateeye<br />\ntoolong:<br />\nyou might want to check out \"Falling out of love &amp; climbing back in\" from the ensign (email me if you can\'t find it, I have a copy)</p>\n<p>This has / is happing Way Too Much in Morland; some leaders &amp; spouses think it\'s a Badge of Worthiness to dump their \'apostate\' spouse.</p>\n<p>Sad, all the way around. OF COURSE ChurchCo NEVER accepts ANY responsibility for ANYTHING.</p>\n<p>Good Luck, bro.</p>\n<p>P.S.: Did You, Will You attend with DW so you can support/listen?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Outcast<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nBeen there!</p>\n<p>My ex went to counseling and referred to me as \"a liability\", that is I was a negative part of her life. You really think that? Sweetie, you have no clue.</p>\n<p>Fast forward 2 years and who was awarded sole custody? Me.</p>\n<p>Fast forward 5 more years. Our daughter is doing exceptionally well in school and is well-adjusted. My ex finally admitted she was too self-centered to be a good parent, that she was grateful to me for providing a good home and being a much better parent.</p>\n<hr />\nStray Mutt<br />\nIf only she would have been reading off a teleprompter.<br />\nThen you could have modified it.\n<hr />\n<p>LordBritish<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nFirst World Problem Mormon Woman:</p>\n<p>Have a perfectly good life...rely on @#$%&amp; in patriarchal blessing to bring up any negatives.</p>\n<p>Or</p>\n<p>Have everything I could ever imagine via apostate spouse. Rely on church to make drama so I can get attention.</p>\n<p>I want to punch my screen...</p>\n<hr />\nOpenYourMouth<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nToolong,\n<p>Good day. I am so sorry that your wife thinks of you as a trial. Based off of the information provided in your post, you are an invaluable asset to your wife. Something that should be appreciated everyday. You are up against a mighty force.</p>\n<p>Your post speaks to me because I am right there with you in the boat. I provide financial security, several fun vacations annually, safe and reliable cars, and savings for my wife and kid. I feel a great sense of accomplishment and reward by doing this, but I sometimes feel that if I just went back to church, I could provide half of the things I do and she would be much happier. Sometimes it makes me crazy.</p>\n<p>I try to remind my wife of all the positives that i offer to our family very frequently. By this, i mean i consciously tell her of everything i mentiioned before more than once a week. This may seem a bit over the top, but I personally realized that I am going against a well funded and operated machine. She is at church a minimum of 3 hours a week, hearing a message that puts my lifestyle and choices in a negative place. Instead of giving up to the mormon mind machine, I am fighting it with my own message.</p>\n<p>Who knows where it will end up, but I find that this strategy has had an impact on her and it allows me to feel like I am doing my part to impact our relationship, something I would not feel if I just sat on a church pew 3 hours weekly. It may be the path of most resistance, but it allows me to feel good about where things are going.</p>\n<p>Good luck,</p>\n<hr />\nLordBritish<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nWhen the spouse is married to the church first...nothing you do will make them happy. You are never and will never measure up.\n<p>Enjoy the rest of your life knowing that.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>honestone<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\ntoolong, I am sorry. did she ever use that word about you when speaking to your directly? IMO, that is really harsh. Like you said....all that you do for your family is still not appreciated since she needs to talk about it all in a church gathering as being less than satisfactory- you are a trial.</p>\n<p>So will you tell her you read it and have a discussion? I think I would. How horrible to speak of you that way to a bunch of brainwashed folks who are now going to know that they too will be talked about in such a fashion if they leave the cult. I bet they are so brainwashed it keeps many from leaving. Keep us updated. All the best to you.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>honestone<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nOh you are so right about that....never would it happen- to belittle a spouse during our services- and our pastor would never allow it. Seems the Bishops love it.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>honestone<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nThat is good news. Glad the right person got custody. Honestly, some people just should not be parents.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>exkoug<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nVery similar thing happened to me recently as well except I didn\'t read the talk beforehand. TBM wife gave a talk a few months ago &amp; I attended sac meeting to support her. Topic was gratitude. Toward the end of the talk, she mentions how she has gratitude for even the \"trials\" in her life. So, she goes on to say that she is thankful to \"heavenly father\" for giving her the \"blessing of belief\" as a youngster to attend church even though her dad left the family &amp; her mom wasn\'t really active. Then said that experience was a \"blessing\" as heavenly father saw that she would need that strength to believe/attend church for later in her life (code for having an inactive, apostate husband - me).</p>\n<p>Don\'t have any advise except wanted you to know that you\'re not alone in dealing with this cult that does so much damage to people\'s lives.</p>\n<hr />\nfetching49<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nOP &amp; Others in the same situation- I am truly sorry for the way your spouse(s) are treating you. Nothing makes this acceptable. Nothing. She owes you a mighty apology and needs a serious change in attitude. *SHE* made the choice to be married to you. She wasn\'t forced and it wasn\'t arranged (that I know of). Her unhappiness is her own. Marriage isn\'t always peachy. We all know that, but publicly humiliating your spouse is disgusting. I think you should confront her about her what\'s going on in your marriage right now. When she comes home from church sit her down and give it to her straight. If your refusal to believe in the LDS Church is causing her such emotional anguish that it cancels out every other aspect of your life together then it\'s time for a serious change. Don\'t threaten. Just tell it like it is in full honesty. She really needs to think about how lucky she is to have a committed, loving provider for a partner and what life would be like without you.\n<hr />\ntoolong<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nI have a high school aged child still at home (plus one on a mission). I\'m trying to hold on and make it work for their sake- At least until they are adults. I love them dearly and want to keep things as normal as possible for them. But I also have this feeling of wanting to get on with my life- to be completely authentic and get out from all this nonsense.\n<hr />\n<p>hello<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nYes, I think you should \"Open Your Mouth\", and speak of all the good that you offer to your family and the world. You are right, LDSInc. will devalue you with all the brainwashing power of a lifetime of indoctrination, all just to make a few more bucks off your family.</p>\n<p>Your spouse needs to hear the truth.</p>\n<p>I have had long talks with my DW, and she has finally come around to being grateful again, instead of being in a Mo-caused depression. She has come back to marital love instead of LDSInc.-brand condemnation and hate.</p>\n<p>I had to reason with her at length, and show her that not even her god would be so negative as to destroy lives over \"belief\" in his special church. She claims her god is love, so let her live accordingly, I say.</p>\n<p>Even as a \"vile apostate\" I am willing to love, and so why can\'t she and her christ be willing too?</p>\n<p>She finally got it. So don\'t be afraid to say good things about good.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Devoted Exmo<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nI like this! I have never understood the Christian hate.</p>\n<hr />\ncl2<br />\nI think she started back to the LDS church<br />\n5-1/2 years ago. Just last Christmas, she lit into me about not forgiving the church when I could forgive her father. I resigned shortly afterwards--so about a year ago. Then she spent a year in Tennessee and Alaska and other than 2 short visits, she just returned home on December 6th. She has been quite depressed and her mormon mothers--who she was always deferring to over those years--have pretty much let her down in terms of being there for her--while I have been there whenever she needed me. Maybe it also her age.\n<p>She still talks to me about the church--sent me a \"genealogy fan\" from ancestry.com (she is taking an institute class). I always wonder if any of my family/friends believe I really don\'t believe anymore--my son thinks she thinks I still believe because I let her talk about it, but we had a discussion about Emily Pearson\'s book about her gay father and gay husband, and I didn\'t let her pull any punches on me. And she just left--came here after church at this ward--and fixed dinner and we watched a movie.</p>\n<p>She has been MUCH MORE respectful since being away. I don\'t know what I changed, but I for sure quit trying to please her--as I tried so hard--but refused to go back to church. I also think she learned something from living with her mormon friend in Tennessee and Alaska--but especially living with her mormon friend\'s single nonmormon mother--and traveling to the Holy Land with them. Seeing someone else\'s mother and living with them and how this woman handled life and treats her kids gave her a completely new view of me.</p>\n<p>Your wife--I wish she could really get a view of what those holy mormon men are like. I lost my marriage--why do these women think they are losing out? They sound like spoiled brats. I would have (and my ex lives here and I spend half my time here and half with my boyfriend in Colorado--my siblings and kids live here most of the time) stayed with my ex forever even if he is gay and cheated on me. I loved him, I valued him no matter what, AND I knew my kids needed him! And that no other man would love them like their own father. It never ceases to amaze me how blind these TBMs are.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>cl2<br />\nFrom a woman who lost it all<br />\nAs I said above--These women are spoiled little brats throwing temper tantrums. Aren\'t they the perfect little angels getting kudos for being the saint?</p>\n<p>Actually, in one of the things my daughter left for me to read right after she went back to church, she admitted that she liked having her family situation because it got her a lot of attention from the ward members (we\'ve lived her 25 years and were very active memberfs for 10 of those years--so they were all thrilled when she came back). She got A LOT of validation.</p>\n<p>These women are being attention whores and what I wouldn\'t have given to have a man support me all those years I was a single mother. My ex barely gave me anything monetarily for a long time. We are at peace now--but these women HAVE NO CLUE what they are stepping into if they decide to leave you or treat you so poorly, you leave them. Send them a mormon singles activity or dance. I was single until age 27 and had many divorced mormon friends--I went to these dances. Oh my h*ll! Your wives have NO CLUE how good they have it. They are FOOOOOOLLLLLS.</p>\n<p>(I think it would have been hilarious if you had shown up without her knowing and see if she gave the whole talk.)</p>\n<hr />\n<p>enoughenoch19<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nOK, show up to F&amp;T meeting and when it is time for the Ts, raise your hand. Then tell them all about your trial, being married to a spoiled brat. Of course be prepared to leave after, and take your kids.<br />\nThere are other women who will not treat you like that believe me.</p>\n<hr />\nsexismyreligion<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\ntoolong Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------<br />\nHer trial will really start when I leave her high and dry.\n<p>I\'m trying to hold on...</p>\n<p>I\'m looking at this from the woman\'s perspective. I agree that your wife shouldn\'t be talking about you in sacrament meeting, BUT...if I were in her position, I wouldn\'t want to be married to someone who\'s just sticking it out until the kids are old enough and then leaving. Being married to a spouse who doesn\'t love you IS a trial, no matter how good of a provider he might be. If she knew you were just putting up with her for the next couple of years and then planning to bail, chances are she\'d kick you out right now and be fully justified in doing so.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Glo<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nMake her get a job. It will help her realize how much you do for her and she\'ll apppreciate you more.</p>\n<p>Having a working wife will also put you in a better position when the inevitable divorce happens.<br />\nOnce a TBM starts to diminish a spouse, the relationship is usually sunk.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Tabula Rasa<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nI don\'t think you should say a goddam thing in your own defense. My ex moved with two of my kids to Cali after we got divorced and remarried some dude she was married to (in the temple, mind you) for 12 weeks before he left her. A year later, she married me and 20 years after that we split.</p>\n<p>I got the \"trial and tribulation\" treatment too until she realized that pissing me off would be a bad thing. She\'s never had a 40 hr. a week job in her life and I paid, over time, a great deal of child support (all gladly paid, mind you). Interestingly, however, is that when the youngest turned 18 (and off the payroll) it was \"time for him to be with his father\". Bwhahahahaha! Love the kid, question the timing.</p>\n<p>I could hear the whispers back in the day from \"supportive\" ward members as to what a dickwad I was and how could he? Up yours! I didn\'t cheat and paid every nickel of CS from day one.</p>\n<p>Trial and tribulation my a$$.</p>\n<p>Ron</p>\n<hr />\nweeder<br />\n+1 ... show up\n<hr />\n<p>ronas<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nBeing in a marriage where you have different religious beliefs is a trial. For both of you.</p>\n<p>For her to allude to it publicly is annoying, but for her to feel that not having her husband believe the same way she does is very difficult is completely understandable.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>mre<br />\nRe: Wow! I\'m sorry!<br />\nThe party is on the second floor.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>blueorchid<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nTaking relationship issues to a public forum is a major betrayal. It isn\'t just a little faux pas, it\'s a deal breaker. Doing so is basically a declaration that the marriage is over. And just to garner some sympathy from her fellow cult members? Martyrdom, nothing more.</p>\n<p>At that point, there is no more \"us\", there is just him,her, and those on her side. At that point, the healthy thing to do would be to focus on the children. She already put the marriage on life support when she wrote that talk.</p>\n<p>I would never take my relationship to the streets. You just don\'t do it if you want a good one.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>BadGirl<br />\nSeriously, you should tell her exactly what you\'ve said here.<br />\nDoes she really consider you a \"trial\"?<br />\nPoint out all those good things. HOly crap!</p>\n<hr />\n<p>sexismyreligion<br />\nTaking relationship issues public is a major betrayal<br />\nI agree with that completely. I also think talking badly about your spouse on this website is a betrayal, although not as bad because it\'s anonymous. It also seems sneaky and dishonest to stick around just for the kids without telling your spouse what you\'re doing. I suppose the OP expects to still be able to sleep with his spouse for those next couple of years until he divorces her? The honest thing to do would be to actually tell his wife that he\'s going to be divorcing her, instead of taking advantage of the spousal relationship while it still exists.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>blueorchid<br />\nRe: Taking relationship issues public is a major betrayal<br />\nI am enjoying your take on this. At this point I wonder if they are even sleeping together in the biblical sense. I couldn\'t get romantic after reading that letter.</p>\n<p>You are definitely right about the honesty though, but I don\'t envy them the words they are about to have. The OP may just be trying to gather his thoughts before the open frank discussion.</p>\n<p>From so many of the things I have read on this board about Bishops urging divorce and a spouse desperately trying to keep the exmo out of the children\'s lives, or running him/her down, I understand why anyone would be scared to death of what comes next and not quite prepared for the full blown honesty.</p>\n<p>I know all that happens in any separation, but the whole TSCC angle really ups the ante.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>fetching49<br />\nRe: Just read my wife\'s sacrament meeting talk...<br />\nPersonally I think posting on a website annon to vent about the situation and possibly get helpful advice is very different from standing up in a room full of people who know you and your family and telling them what dirtbag your spouse is for not sharing your personal beliefs and refusing to accompany you to meetings during the week and on Sundays.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>sexismyreligion<br />\nI\'m having trouble understanding<br />\nwhy the OP is getting any sympathy at all. He started off by announcing his intention to leave his wife, but he doesn\'t have the balls to actually tell his wife what his plans are. That\'s sneaky and manipulative. If you\'re absolutely sure that you are leaving your spouse, at least have the decency to let your spouse know.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Stunted<br />\nThat\'s seems a bit harsh.<br />\nThis guy has been slapped in the face by his wife and you turn it around to make him the bad guy? Really?</p>\n<p>All I see in his posts is idle speculation that the marriage may not last. That\'s a far cry from planning to leave a wife. He\'s hurting and feels betrayed. I don\'t blame him. I\'ve been there. The church has f*cked him over pretty good, he doesn\'t need another ass f^cking from a website devoted to dealing with getting f&amp;cked in the ass by the cult.</p>\n<hr />\ntoolong\n<p>Obviously I have touched a nerve with you- I guess in my defense..I have discussed divorce with my wife on many occasions. She has made it clear that she wants\\needs a worthy priesthood holder for a husband. This is her choice, not mine. I will be the first to admit I am not perfect but my point was that from a non-Mormon view I am probably a pretty good father.</p>\n<p>Although I said it in my post (when I was feeling hurt), I would never just leave without a plan for all involved. We have both agreed to keep things going for the sake of our youngest child, who does not need extra drama in his life right now (he is seventeen, in the middle of the teenager stuff). So he is my focus and hope that he can break free from the church.. And not get peer pressured into going on a mission.</p>\n<p>As for venting on this board-- I don\'t have anywhere else to turn because I would never do what my wife has done to me-- talking openly about me to church leaders, friends and family. I am basically an outcast in my nice little Utah County ward. She has a built in support structure to deal with an apostate husband where I just have to sit and deal with all the fallout. I post on this board as an outlet... What you read is a little snippet of my life and you have no idea of the crap I\'ve been pulled through since I told my wife I no longer believe. And I mean CRAP in the fullest sense of the word. My role as father has been subordinated by the church in so many ways. My wife has been completely dishonest with me on so many levels with the bishop, home teachers, etc. There are always two sides of the story but I\'ve seen enough to know that this is a pattern of behavior that the church supports. It hurts tremendously to know all the love, time and hard work I have put into my family is disregarded because I choose not to believe.</p>\n<p>Just so you know, I confronted my wife about the talk and she feels comepletely justified. It was a circular argument and almost funny that she cannot see how this stuff creates distrust. But I\'m sure she got what she was after.</p>\n<p>Just so you know, we actually had a good marriage before I discovered the truth. And by the way, in honor of your choice of board name--- I haven\'t had sex in months.. So forgive me if I act a little on edge.</p>\n<p>I hope this clarifies things a bit- this board is my lifeline in many respects so I thought it was important to explain my situation in a little more detail.</p>\n<p>Thanks for listening!</p>\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1490772341, expire = 1490858741, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:f81d6970cc5a0424f2e0ed869102226d' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

by toolong Jan 2012

Couldn't help it- it was just sitting there on the desk and she was in the shower- she has been writing it and fretting about it all week. It sounds like the topic is faith- to which she states: "many of you know of my personal trial" (code for husband Toolong's aposatacy) "The only thing I can do is have faith that heavenly father will help my family every day."

I'm sure the congregation will eat it up and give her much love and hugs afterword. Well I'm sorry I am now cosidered a trial. Maybe I should just quit my job, sell the nice house and cars, stop the fun vacations and getaways, spend the college fund on tithing and fast offerings---and go back to church so I can remove this burden from my family.

Give me a break- this is so laughable, it's hard to believe adults act this way. Her trial will really start when I leave her high and dry.


cl2
Wow! I'm sorry!
My TBM daughter tends to leave things around she wants me to read--otherwise, she hides her journals, etc. I've been burned a few times by reading those things! (Our relationship has improved a lot in the past year--and she actually wrote a blog about how thankful she is for me.)

2thdoc
Wow, can I ever relate
I'm right there with ya, Toolong.

My wife's patriarchal blessing mentions that she will have to endure "trials and tribulations" in her life, and my having quit going to church has finally made her P.B. come true! Up until a few years ago she was always bewildered by that part, because she admitted her life was so plush. From the perspective of most of the world, my wife truly has an enviable life with a beautiful family, financial security, and a faithful and loving husband. But all she seems able to do (at least around other TBMs) is to dwell on her victimhood (ohhh, the trial of having an inactive husband). And you're right: others just eat it up, giving her hugs of sympathy and words of encouragement. Makes me sick.

I don't have any words of comfort except for you to know that there's someone else out there feeling exactly the same way as you. Best wishes.


Can't Resist
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
Call her out on it.

Send her to sacrament meeting with the spirit of fear. Fear of loosing it all... See if her faith pulls her through. See how comforting those hugs are in the face of that fear.

Better yet, show up to sacrament.

What a breach of trust and loyalty. It sucks.


toolong
Re: Wow! I'm sorry!
How long did it take for your relationship with her to start to improve? My situation is going on three years with no end in sight. I'm glad your daughter recognizes you for who you are instead on viewing you just in the context of the church.
toolong
Re: Wow, can I ever relate
Exactly! Thanks for responding, at least I know I'm not alone in all this weirdness. Good luck! I hope it improves for you somehow-

sam
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
I am sure many people on this board relate to your comment in one way or another.

There are so many posts that obviously relate to family problems because of this church. Isn't it so sad that JS is put ahead of spouse and family in so many situations?

In my case, I had serious marital problems that had nothing to do with the church (I think) but the dynamics of the church added another obstacle I could not overcome.

I have learned (the hard way) that nothing else can be or should be more important than your spouse in a truly loving relationship. The church is so damaging and hurts so many when it becomes more important than your spouse.


Helen
I'm wondering if you could actually say something like this
"Honey, I bet you figured by leaving this out I'd read it. Well I did. I Wish we could talk how I am your personal trial instead of you standing up in sacrament meeting and telling them I am your trial. And the trial dear for me is that you want me to believe something that isn't true for me."

Or print out this whole thread and ask her to read it.

Makes "Families, isn't it about time?" such a farse.


forbiddencokedrinker
Re: Wow! I'm sorry!
When my parents left the church, it put a major strain on our relationship, for years, until I realized that the church was BS, and that I would rather have a relationship with them then with Jesus.

Besides, even if the church somehow turned out to be true, half my family is going Telestrial Kingdom, and that sounds like a much funner place.


insanitee
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
I hear you loud and clear. I'm pretty sure I'm considered one of those "trials" in my spouse's life, even though I'm supportive, faithful, sacrificed much to get my college education for the betterment of my family, and hold down 2 jobs to reduce my wife's workload. My biggest sin is that I consider church to be the biggest bore of my life, a considerable waste of time and resources, and a very depressing way to spend a "day of rest", and yet I still go. At least to the sacrament. Add to this that her sibling and significant other is now in our ward, tanking any "comfort" level I have with at least being with my wife and kid.

Someday I hope that she will see that this is my decision, and not one I will ever force upon her or our kid, but the look I get when I tell her I'll come back for them after the block says otherwise. I hate what this church does to the families of people that have the audacity to think outside the pulpit.


Quoth the Raven "Nevermo"
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
The morg might pretend it is mainstream, but in mainstream christian religions people don't get up in front of the congregation to bad mouth their spouse for having different beliefs. It would be considered absolutely poor taste. But, the morg and poor taste seem to go hand in hand.

Quoth the Raven "Nevermo"
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
toolong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Give me a break- this is so laughable, it's hard
> to believe adults act this way. Her trial will
> really start when I leave her high and dry.

How old are your kids? Are you staying around until the kids hit college age?


munchybotaz
That really sux.
And I mean that there is some super shitty @#$%& that she's left for you to find. Are you going to confront her before she leaves? I would.


Mia
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
Why mo's think it's ok to stand at the pulpit and throw family members under the bus, is beyond me.
After humiliating you in front of every one at church, why would you ever step foot in that church again?
How would she like it if you told all of your friends she was a burden, but you have faith that burden would be lifted some day?
I'm sure she would feel, hurt, threatened, and fearful.
The church teaches members how to be thoughtless emotional and spiritual abusers.


guynoirprivateeye
toolong:
you might want to check out "Falling out of love & climbing back in" from the ensign (email me if you can't find it, I have a copy)

This has / is happing Way Too Much in Morland; some leaders & spouses think it's a Badge of Worthiness to dump their 'apostate' spouse.

Sad, all the way around. OF COURSE ChurchCo NEVER accepts ANY responsibility for ANYTHING.

Good Luck, bro.

P.S.: Did You, Will You attend with DW so you can support/listen?


Outcast
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
Been there!

My ex went to counseling and referred to me as "a liability", that is I was a negative part of her life. You really think that? Sweetie, you have no clue.

Fast forward 2 years and who was awarded sole custody? Me.

Fast forward 5 more years. Our daughter is doing exceptionally well in school and is well-adjusted. My ex finally admitted she was too self-centered to be a good parent, that she was grateful to me for providing a good home and being a much better parent.


Stray Mutt
If only she would have been reading off a teleprompter.
Then you could have modified it.

LordBritish
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
First World Problem Mormon Woman:

Have a perfectly good life...rely on @#$%& in patriarchal blessing to bring up any negatives.

Or

Have everything I could ever imagine via apostate spouse. Rely on church to make drama so I can get attention.

I want to punch my screen...


OpenYourMouth
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
Toolong,

Good day. I am so sorry that your wife thinks of you as a trial. Based off of the information provided in your post, you are an invaluable asset to your wife. Something that should be appreciated everyday. You are up against a mighty force.

Your post speaks to me because I am right there with you in the boat. I provide financial security, several fun vacations annually, safe and reliable cars, and savings for my wife and kid. I feel a great sense of accomplishment and reward by doing this, but I sometimes feel that if I just went back to church, I could provide half of the things I do and she would be much happier. Sometimes it makes me crazy.

I try to remind my wife of all the positives that i offer to our family very frequently. By this, i mean i consciously tell her of everything i mentiioned before more than once a week. This may seem a bit over the top, but I personally realized that I am going against a well funded and operated machine. She is at church a minimum of 3 hours a week, hearing a message that puts my lifestyle and choices in a negative place. Instead of giving up to the mormon mind machine, I am fighting it with my own message.

Who knows where it will end up, but I find that this strategy has had an impact on her and it allows me to feel like I am doing my part to impact our relationship, something I would not feel if I just sat on a church pew 3 hours weekly. It may be the path of most resistance, but it allows me to feel good about where things are going.

Good luck,


LordBritish
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
When the spouse is married to the church first...nothing you do will make them happy. You are never and will never measure up.

Enjoy the rest of your life knowing that.


honestone
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
toolong, I am sorry. did she ever use that word about you when speaking to your directly? IMO, that is really harsh. Like you said....all that you do for your family is still not appreciated since she needs to talk about it all in a church gathering as being less than satisfactory- you are a trial.

So will you tell her you read it and have a discussion? I think I would. How horrible to speak of you that way to a bunch of brainwashed folks who are now going to know that they too will be talked about in such a fashion if they leave the cult. I bet they are so brainwashed it keeps many from leaving. Keep us updated. All the best to you.


honestone
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
Oh you are so right about that....never would it happen- to belittle a spouse during our services- and our pastor would never allow it. Seems the Bishops love it.


honestone
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
That is good news. Glad the right person got custody. Honestly, some people just should not be parents.


exkoug
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
Very similar thing happened to me recently as well except I didn't read the talk beforehand. TBM wife gave a talk a few months ago & I attended sac meeting to support her. Topic was gratitude. Toward the end of the talk, she mentions how she has gratitude for even the "trials" in her life. So, she goes on to say that she is thankful to "heavenly father" for giving her the "blessing of belief" as a youngster to attend church even though her dad left the family & her mom wasn't really active. Then said that experience was a "blessing" as heavenly father saw that she would need that strength to believe/attend church for later in her life (code for having an inactive, apostate husband - me).

Don't have any advise except wanted you to know that you're not alone in dealing with this cult that does so much damage to people's lives.


fetching49
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
OP & Others in the same situation- I am truly sorry for the way your spouse(s) are treating you. Nothing makes this acceptable. Nothing. She owes you a mighty apology and needs a serious change in attitude. *SHE* made the choice to be married to you. She wasn't forced and it wasn't arranged (that I know of). Her unhappiness is her own. Marriage isn't always peachy. We all know that, but publicly humiliating your spouse is disgusting. I think you should confront her about her what's going on in your marriage right now. When she comes home from church sit her down and give it to her straight. If your refusal to believe in the LDS Church is causing her such emotional anguish that it cancels out every other aspect of your life together then it's time for a serious change. Don't threaten. Just tell it like it is in full honesty. She really needs to think about how lucky she is to have a committed, loving provider for a partner and what life would be like without you.
toolong
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
I have a high school aged child still at home (plus one on a mission). I'm trying to hold on and make it work for their sake- At least until they are adults. I love them dearly and want to keep things as normal as possible for them. But I also have this feeling of wanting to get on with my life- to be completely authentic and get out from all this nonsense.

hello
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
Yes, I think you should "Open Your Mouth", and speak of all the good that you offer to your family and the world. You are right, LDSInc. will devalue you with all the brainwashing power of a lifetime of indoctrination, all just to make a few more bucks off your family.

Your spouse needs to hear the truth.

I have had long talks with my DW, and she has finally come around to being grateful again, instead of being in a Mo-caused depression. She has come back to marital love instead of LDSInc.-brand condemnation and hate.

I had to reason with her at length, and show her that not even her god would be so negative as to destroy lives over "belief" in his special church. She claims her god is love, so let her live accordingly, I say.

Even as a "vile apostate" I am willing to love, and so why can't she and her christ be willing too?

She finally got it. So don't be afraid to say good things about good.


Devoted Exmo
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
I like this! I have never understood the Christian hate.


cl2
I think she started back to the LDS church
5-1/2 years ago. Just last Christmas, she lit into me about not forgiving the church when I could forgive her father. I resigned shortly afterwards--so about a year ago. Then she spent a year in Tennessee and Alaska and other than 2 short visits, she just returned home on December 6th. She has been quite depressed and her mormon mothers--who she was always deferring to over those years--have pretty much let her down in terms of being there for her--while I have been there whenever she needed me. Maybe it also her age.

She still talks to me about the church--sent me a "genealogy fan" from ancestry.com (she is taking an institute class). I always wonder if any of my family/friends believe I really don't believe anymore--my son thinks she thinks I still believe because I let her talk about it, but we had a discussion about Emily Pearson's book about her gay father and gay husband, and I didn't let her pull any punches on me. And she just left--came here after church at this ward--and fixed dinner and we watched a movie.

She has been MUCH MORE respectful since being away. I don't know what I changed, but I for sure quit trying to please her--as I tried so hard--but refused to go back to church. I also think she learned something from living with her mormon friend in Tennessee and Alaska--but especially living with her mormon friend's single nonmormon mother--and traveling to the Holy Land with them. Seeing someone else's mother and living with them and how this woman handled life and treats her kids gave her a completely new view of me.

Your wife--I wish she could really get a view of what those holy mormon men are like. I lost my marriage--why do these women think they are losing out? They sound like spoiled brats. I would have (and my ex lives here and I spend half my time here and half with my boyfriend in Colorado--my siblings and kids live here most of the time) stayed with my ex forever even if he is gay and cheated on me. I loved him, I valued him no matter what, AND I knew my kids needed him! And that no other man would love them like their own father. It never ceases to amaze me how blind these TBMs are.


cl2
From a woman who lost it all
As I said above--These women are spoiled little brats throwing temper tantrums. Aren't they the perfect little angels getting kudos for being the saint?

Actually, in one of the things my daughter left for me to read right after she went back to church, she admitted that she liked having her family situation because it got her a lot of attention from the ward members (we've lived her 25 years and were very active memberfs for 10 of those years--so they were all thrilled when she came back). She got A LOT of validation.

These women are being attention whores and what I wouldn't have given to have a man support me all those years I was a single mother. My ex barely gave me anything monetarily for a long time. We are at peace now--but these women HAVE NO CLUE what they are stepping into if they decide to leave you or treat you so poorly, you leave them. Send them a mormon singles activity or dance. I was single until age 27 and had many divorced mormon friends--I went to these dances. Oh my h*ll! Your wives have NO CLUE how good they have it. They are FOOOOOOLLLLLS.

(I think it would have been hilarious if you had shown up without her knowing and see if she gave the whole talk.)


enoughenoch19
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
OK, show up to F&T meeting and when it is time for the Ts, raise your hand. Then tell them all about your trial, being married to a spoiled brat. Of course be prepared to leave after, and take your kids.
There are other women who will not treat you like that believe me.


sexismyreligion
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
toolong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Her trial will really start when I leave her high and dry.

I'm trying to hold on...

I'm looking at this from the woman's perspective. I agree that your wife shouldn't be talking about you in sacrament meeting, BUT...if I were in her position, I wouldn't want to be married to someone who's just sticking it out until the kids are old enough and then leaving. Being married to a spouse who doesn't love you IS a trial, no matter how good of a provider he might be. If she knew you were just putting up with her for the next couple of years and then planning to bail, chances are she'd kick you out right now and be fully justified in doing so.


Glo
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
Make her get a job. It will help her realize how much you do for her and she'll apppreciate you more.

Having a working wife will also put you in a better position when the inevitable divorce happens.
Once a TBM starts to diminish a spouse, the relationship is usually sunk.


Tabula Rasa
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
I don't think you should say a goddam thing in your own defense. My ex moved with two of my kids to Cali after we got divorced and remarried some dude she was married to (in the temple, mind you) for 12 weeks before he left her. A year later, she married me and 20 years after that we split.

I got the "trial and tribulation" treatment too until she realized that pissing me off would be a bad thing. She's never had a 40 hr. a week job in her life and I paid, over time, a great deal of child support (all gladly paid, mind you). Interestingly, however, is that when the youngest turned 18 (and off the payroll) it was "time for him to be with his father". Bwhahahahaha! Love the kid, question the timing.

I could hear the whispers back in the day from "supportive" ward members as to what a dickwad I was and how could he? Up yours! I didn't cheat and paid every nickel of CS from day one.

Trial and tribulation my a$$.

Ron


weeder
+1 ... show up

ronas
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
Being in a marriage where you have different religious beliefs is a trial. For both of you.

For her to allude to it publicly is annoying, but for her to feel that not having her husband believe the same way she does is very difficult is completely understandable.


mre
Re: Wow! I'm sorry!
The party is on the second floor.


blueorchid
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
Taking relationship issues to a public forum is a major betrayal. It isn't just a little faux pas, it's a deal breaker. Doing so is basically a declaration that the marriage is over. And just to garner some sympathy from her fellow cult members? Martyrdom, nothing more.

At that point, there is no more "us", there is just him,her, and those on her side. At that point, the healthy thing to do would be to focus on the children. She already put the marriage on life support when she wrote that talk.

I would never take my relationship to the streets. You just don't do it if you want a good one.


BadGirl
Seriously, you should tell her exactly what you've said here.
Does she really consider you a "trial"?
Point out all those good things. HOly crap!


sexismyreligion
Taking relationship issues public is a major betrayal
I agree with that completely. I also think talking badly about your spouse on this website is a betrayal, although not as bad because it's anonymous. It also seems sneaky and dishonest to stick around just for the kids without telling your spouse what you're doing. I suppose the OP expects to still be able to sleep with his spouse for those next couple of years until he divorces her? The honest thing to do would be to actually tell his wife that he's going to be divorcing her, instead of taking advantage of the spousal relationship while it still exists.


blueorchid
Re: Taking relationship issues public is a major betrayal
I am enjoying your take on this. At this point I wonder if they are even sleeping together in the biblical sense. I couldn't get romantic after reading that letter.

You are definitely right about the honesty though, but I don't envy them the words they are about to have. The OP may just be trying to gather his thoughts before the open frank discussion.

From so many of the things I have read on this board about Bishops urging divorce and a spouse desperately trying to keep the exmo out of the children's lives, or running him/her down, I understand why anyone would be scared to death of what comes next and not quite prepared for the full blown honesty.

I know all that happens in any separation, but the whole TSCC angle really ups the ante.


fetching49
Re: Just read my wife's sacrament meeting talk...
Personally I think posting on a website annon to vent about the situation and possibly get helpful advice is very different from standing up in a room full of people who know you and your family and telling them what dirtbag your spouse is for not sharing your personal beliefs and refusing to accompany you to meetings during the week and on Sundays.


sexismyreligion
I'm having trouble understanding
why the OP is getting any sympathy at all. He started off by announcing his intention to leave his wife, but he doesn't have the balls to actually tell his wife what his plans are. That's sneaky and manipulative. If you're absolutely sure that you are leaving your spouse, at least have the decency to let your spouse know.


Stunted
That's seems a bit harsh.
This guy has been slapped in the face by his wife and you turn it around to make him the bad guy? Really?

All I see in his posts is idle speculation that the marriage may not last. That's a far cry from planning to leave a wife. He's hurting and feels betrayed. I don't blame him. I've been there. The church has f*cked him over pretty good, he doesn't need another ass f^cking from a website devoted to dealing with getting f&cked in the ass by the cult.


toolong

Obviously I have touched a nerve with you- I guess in my defense..I have discussed divorce with my wife on many occasions. She has made it clear that she wants\needs a worthy priesthood holder for a husband. This is her choice, not mine. I will be the first to admit I am not perfect but my point was that from a non-Mormon view I am probably a pretty good father.

Although I said it in my post (when I was feeling hurt), I would never just leave without a plan for all involved. We have both agreed to keep things going for the sake of our youngest child, who does not need extra drama in his life right now (he is seventeen, in the middle of the teenager stuff). So he is my focus and hope that he can break free from the church.. And not get peer pressured into going on a mission.

As for venting on this board-- I don't have anywhere else to turn because I would never do what my wife has done to me-- talking openly about me to church leaders, friends and family. I am basically an outcast in my nice little Utah County ward. She has a built in support structure to deal with an apostate husband where I just have to sit and deal with all the fallout. I post on this board as an outlet... What you read is a little snippet of my life and you have no idea of the crap I've been pulled through since I told my wife I no longer believe. And I mean CRAP in the fullest sense of the word. My role as father has been subordinated by the church in so many ways. My wife has been completely dishonest with me on so many levels with the bishop, home teachers, etc. There are always two sides of the story but I've seen enough to know that this is a pattern of behavior that the church supports. It hurts tremendously to know all the love, time and hard work I have put into my family is disregarded because I choose not to believe.

Just so you know, I confronted my wife about the talk and she feels comepletely justified. It was a circular argument and almost funny that she cannot see how this stuff creates distrust. But I'm sure she got what she was after.

Just so you know, we actually had a good marriage before I discovered the truth. And by the way, in honor of your choice of board name--- I haven't had sex in months.. So forgive me if I act a little on edge.

I hope this clarifies things a bit- this board is my lifeline in many respects so I thought it was important to explain my situation in a little more detail.

Thanks for listening!

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"