Mormon Church finally admits members dropping like flies

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>by Memes circa 2000 Feb 2012</p>\n<p>Here is the link to the story. I wonder just how much trouble Jensen will be in. They admit they claim 14 million members but actually closer to 5 million active members.</p>\n<p>I think 5 million is even a bit steep.</p>\n<p><a href=\"http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/31/us-mormonchurch-idUSTRE80T1CM20120131\" title=\"http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/31/us-mormonchurch-idUSTRE80T1CM20120131\">http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/31/us-mormonchurch-idUSTRE80T1CM2...</a></p>\n<hr />\n<p>introvertedme<br />\nRe: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies<br />\nAwesome. The more that leave the better.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Charlie<br />\nRe: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies<br />\nThank you! I will be sharing the reference with friends and family still behind the veil.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Cheryl<br />\nThanks. That\'s interesting. Notice the articles says the church is giving its \"pasters\" new teaching materials? lol&nbsp;</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Tabula Rasa<br />\nRe: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies<br />\nWho knew?</p>\n<p>\"LDS support of Prop 8 became a lightning rod both inside and outside the Church. There were demonstrations in Salt Lake City, which is home to the Mormon tabernacle but was also just named the \"the gayest city in America\" by the Advocate magazine, crediting its numerous gay-friendly bars, book stores and neighborhoods...\"</p>\n<p>I had no clue. Is this true? SLC the \"gayest city in America\"?</p>\n<p>Cheryl: I noted that too. ;)</p>\n<p>Ron</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Dave the Atheist<br />\nAccording to google, Salt Lake has four gay bars.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>WiserWomanNow<br />\nAnd speaking of manuals…<br />\nFrom the article: “The manuals used to teach the young church doctrine… are ‘severely outdated.’\" [Marlin Jensen’s term]</p>\n<p>WWN’s Translation:<br />\n“It’s too easy these days for Mormons to compare the B.S. we used to shovel out to them with the facts now available on the Internet.”</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Dave the Atheist<br />\nSo he is claiming that \"church doctrine\" changes </p>\n<hr />\n<p>Memes circa 2000<br />\nRe: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies<br />\nIt is somewhat true. I think it may have been done to irk TSCC [this so called church] a bit. I live in SLC and all of my gay friends love being here, mostly, it is not uncommon to see same sex couples walking hand in hand, shopping as couples at the grocery or pushing babies in strollers. Many of the churches downtown have started to cater to the LGBTQ community.</p>\n<p>I am straight though, and I am sure that comparatively yes, SLUT is a nice place to be versus how it was even five years ago. When the straights &amp; the gays united, screamed and marched around Church HQ it seemed that the LGBTQ community finally felt supported and safe enough to be out. It has gotten better around here.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>WiserWomanNow<br />\nHe isn\'t \"claiming\" that; I am claiming that this is behind his words.<br />\nAfter all, if history comprises FACTS about what happened in the past, how can that be \"outdated\"?!</p>\n<p>I can think of no interpretation of what is behind Jensen\'s seemingly neutral statement OTHER THAN the one I mentioned in my post above.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Memes circa 2000<br />\nPlease share this<br />\nThis article has a few tidbits that could help your LDS Facebook friends to see the light. Please share it, you don\'t even have to post anything as an intro but share it if you can.</p>\n<hr />\nlulu<br />\nRe: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies<br />\nMemes circa 2000 Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------<br />\n&gt; I wonder just how much trouble Jensen will be in.&lt;\n<p>Well, he\'s already be fired.</p>\n<p><a href=\"http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700215000/Elder-Snow-appointed-as-new-LDS-Church-Historian.html\" title=\"http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700215000/Elder-Snow-appointed-as-new-LDS-Church-Historian.html\">http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700215000/Elder-Snow-appointed-as-new...</a></p>\n<hr />\nTabula Rasa<br />\nRe: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies<br />\nBwhahahahahaha! WTF?\n<p>Ron</p>\n<hr />\n<p>freeman<br />\nRe: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies<br />\nIs Jensen\'s \"emeritus status\" the natural order of things when they retire working GAs, i.e. is it his natural retirement, or do you think he has been pushed out prematurely?</p>\n<p>In other words, is it normal to be retired by age 70?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>grubbygert<br />\nRe: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies<br />\nthey usually do the emeritus thing during the october conference</p>\n<p>that they did it in his case just a couple of months later is significant</p>\n<hr />\n<p>freeman<br />\nRe: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies<br />\nIt does appear to have come very shortly after that recorded frank address that\'s found it\'s way into the mainstream media.</p>\n<hr />\nMia<br />\nRe: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies<br />\nApparently the truth really does set you free. Have a calling you need to unload? Tell the truth about Mormon history. You\'ll be outta there so fast it will make your head spin.\n<hr />\n<p>drilldoc<br />\nHaving sat on this for decades<br />\nI think the church has waited too long. The downward spin is, I believe, unstoppable.</p>\n<hr />\ndoris<br />\nRe: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies<br />\nthats because even when you leave and send in your letter to have your name removed they still have it on record i would prefer it if they just deleted my name completely\n<hr />\n<p>Rebeckah<br />\nOr San Fransisco?&nbsp;</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Heresy<br />\nThere\'s a youtube of an ex Mission President, Ted Lyon, who uses<br />\nthe same \'five million active and participating\' number. He says that is what the leaders use in describing membership. He was in South America and talks about how the \'baseball baptisms\' messed up the counts and how they are trying to clean it up.</p>\n<p>I think that number is probably pretty accurate and well known at top levels, as opposed to the \'14 million\' that they feed the sheep.</p>\n<p>I think it is the ARIS survey that found the US was 1.6% Mormon in 1980, and 1.6% in 2002. There was NO growth in market share during the period they were screaming about the fastest growing church on the planet.</p>\n<p>Lying for the lord.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Loins of Fire<br />\nuh huh<br />\nHow come I don\'t believe this:</p>\n<p>\"In Africa and Latin America, however, Jensen said that interest in the LDS was so strong that the church has cut back baptisms in order to better care for new members.\"</p>\n<p>I don\'t believe it\'s that strong.<br />\nI don\'t believe they woudl EVER cut back.<br />\nI don\'t believe they show \"better\" care once they\'ve been baptised.</p>\n<p>Cynical old bastard that I am.</p>\n<hr />\nCharlie<br />\nRe: So he is claiming that \"church doctrine\" changes ?<br />\nThe MO is so very 1984esk.\n<p>However, I was taught that god said, \"I am the same yesterday, today and forever. My path is one eternal round.\"</p>\n<p>How then can doctrine change? Situational truth, that which the chruch teaches today, is but another word for lies.</p>\n<hr />\nhello<br />\nRe: uh huh<br />\nLoins of Fire Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------<br />\nHow come I don\'t believe this:<br />\n&gt;<br />\nIn Africa and Latin America, however, Jensen said<br />\n that interest in the LDS was so strong that the<br />\nchurch has cut back baptisms in order to better<br />\n; care for new members.\"\n<p>Oh yeah. That\'s what they are doing. CUTTING BACK on baptisms. Yeah, that sounds right...</p>\n<p>Amazing they can say this with a straight face.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>matt<br />\nWell now, Mr Jensen your daughter has a VERY good question<br />\n&gt;\"My own daughter,\" he then added, \"has come to me and said, \'Dad, why didn\'t you ever tell me that Joseph Smith was a polygamist?\'\"</p>\n<p>Why didn\'t you tell her?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Glo<br />\nRe: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies<br />\nI wouldn\'t be bit surprised if they proceeded more cautiously in Africa than they did in South America.</p>\n<p>After all, these people are BLACK, not even Lamanites LOL.</p>\n<p>Besides, how would it look if the majority of members were black - with all the top leadership being white LOL.</p>\n<hr />\nsteve benson<br />\nHere\'s the damning excerpt from the article . . .<br />\n\"Jensen, the church\'s official historian, would not provide any figures on the rate of defections, but he told Reuters that attrition has accelerated in the last five or 10 years, reflecting greater secularization of society. Many religions have been suffering similarly, he noted, arguing that Mormonism has never been more vibrant.\n<p>\"\'I think we are at a time of challenge, but it isn\'t apocalyptic,\' he said.</p>\n<p>\"The LDS church claims 14 million members worldwide -- optimistically including nearly every person baptized. But census data from some foreign countries targeted by clean-cut young missionaries show that the retention rate for their converts is as low as 25 percent. In the U.S., only about half of Mormons are active members of the church, said Washington State University emeritus sociologist Armand Mauss, a leading researcher on Mormons.</p>\n<p><b>\"Sociologists estimate there are as few as 5 million active members worldwide.\"</b></p>\n<hr />\n<p>derrida<br />\nRe: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies<br />\nI love the idea of gays across the country going to homestead and lay down roots in Salt Lake City. An exodus from various parts of the country such as peopled San Francisco with its current pro-gay culture.</p>\n<p>Wouldn\'t that be a hoot? Salt Lake City, the San Francisco of the Intermountain West: <a href=\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermountain_West\" title=\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermountain_West\">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermountain_West</a>.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Kendal Mint Cake<br />\nRe: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies<br />\nI bet they are still most eager to baptise potential priesthood holders with healthy bank balances.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>steve benson<br />\nRelated link: SLC media reporting a plummet in Mormon membership . . .<br />\n<a href=\"http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,405079\" title=\"http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,405079\">http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,405079</a></p>\n<hr />\nozpoof<br />\nI suspect the Advocate is trying to get gays to visit SLC to force the Zion Curtain open.&nbsp;\n<hr />\n<p>honestone<br />\nRe: Thanks. That\'s interesting. Notice the articles says the church is giving its \"pasters\" new teaching materials? lol<br />\nPastors???....or DID they spell it wrong. And since when do Mormons have pastors???</p>\n<hr />\nozpoof<br />\nThose poor bastards in Africa and Latin America.<br />\nAlthough, can you imagine the CULT *really* growing in places like Brazil and Argentina where they seem to actually love life? Why give up that for drone work and kicking up to an evil, lying corporation?\n<p>They\'re all on the internet anyway. We need a Spanish sister site to this one and translators to get the word out about these CULT scum.</p>\n<p>As for Africa, they won\'t be able to keep a lid on their dirty racist secrets. Nigeria is an English speaking country, as is RSA - both sites of new temples. They will be able to access all the filthy truth.</p>\n<p>Tithing revenue is low for these places now, but as the people grow richer, they become more global. They will find out, and sooner than the Westerners. I doubt there will be a second generation of Mormons in many of these countries.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>archytas<br />\nRe: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies<br />\nI love the nugget about BoM dna. Hope some TBM\'s see it.</p>\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1495763068, expire = 1495849468, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:f63893fb860acfb5eaa591fc706d2c9c' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

by Memes circa 2000 Feb 2012

Here is the link to the story. I wonder just how much trouble Jensen will be in. They admit they claim 14 million members but actually closer to 5 million active members.

I think 5 million is even a bit steep.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/31/us-mormonchurch-idUSTRE80T1CM2...


introvertedme
Re: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies
Awesome. The more that leave the better.


Charlie
Re: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies
Thank you! I will be sharing the reference with friends and family still behind the veil.


Cheryl
Thanks. That's interesting. Notice the articles says the church is giving its "pasters" new teaching materials? lol 


Tabula Rasa
Re: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies
Who knew?

"LDS support of Prop 8 became a lightning rod both inside and outside the Church. There were demonstrations in Salt Lake City, which is home to the Mormon tabernacle but was also just named the "the gayest city in America" by the Advocate magazine, crediting its numerous gay-friendly bars, book stores and neighborhoods..."

I had no clue. Is this true? SLC the "gayest city in America"?

Cheryl: I noted that too. ;)

Ron


Dave the Atheist
According to google, Salt Lake has four gay bars.


WiserWomanNow
And speaking of manuals…
From the article: “The manuals used to teach the young church doctrine… are ‘severely outdated.’" [Marlin Jensen’s term]

WWN’s Translation:
“It’s too easy these days for Mormons to compare the B.S. we used to shovel out to them with the facts now available on the Internet.”


Dave the Atheist
So he is claiming that "church doctrine" changes


Memes circa 2000
Re: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies
It is somewhat true. I think it may have been done to irk TSCC [this so called church] a bit. I live in SLC and all of my gay friends love being here, mostly, it is not uncommon to see same sex couples walking hand in hand, shopping as couples at the grocery or pushing babies in strollers. Many of the churches downtown have started to cater to the LGBTQ community.

I am straight though, and I am sure that comparatively yes, SLUT is a nice place to be versus how it was even five years ago. When the straights & the gays united, screamed and marched around Church HQ it seemed that the LGBTQ community finally felt supported and safe enough to be out. It has gotten better around here.


WiserWomanNow
He isn't "claiming" that; I am claiming that this is behind his words.
After all, if history comprises FACTS about what happened in the past, how can that be "outdated"?!

I can think of no interpretation of what is behind Jensen's seemingly neutral statement OTHER THAN the one I mentioned in my post above.


Memes circa 2000
Please share this
This article has a few tidbits that could help your LDS Facebook friends to see the light. Please share it, you don't even have to post anything as an intro but share it if you can.


lulu
Re: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies
Memes circa 2000 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder just how much trouble Jensen will be in.<

Well, he's already be fired.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700215000/Elder-Snow-appointed-as-new...


Tabula Rasa
Re: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies
Bwhahahahahaha! WTF?

Ron


freeman
Re: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies
Is Jensen's "emeritus status" the natural order of things when they retire working GAs, i.e. is it his natural retirement, or do you think he has been pushed out prematurely?

In other words, is it normal to be retired by age 70?


grubbygert
Re: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies
they usually do the emeritus thing during the october conference

that they did it in his case just a couple of months later is significant


freeman
Re: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies
It does appear to have come very shortly after that recorded frank address that's found it's way into the mainstream media.


Mia
Re: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies
Apparently the truth really does set you free. Have a calling you need to unload? Tell the truth about Mormon history. You'll be outta there so fast it will make your head spin.

drilldoc
Having sat on this for decades
I think the church has waited too long. The downward spin is, I believe, unstoppable.


doris
Re: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies
thats because even when you leave and send in your letter to have your name removed they still have it on record i would prefer it if they just deleted my name completely

Rebeckah
Or San Fransisco? 


Heresy
There's a youtube of an ex Mission President, Ted Lyon, who uses
the same 'five million active and participating' number. He says that is what the leaders use in describing membership. He was in South America and talks about how the 'baseball baptisms' messed up the counts and how they are trying to clean it up.

I think that number is probably pretty accurate and well known at top levels, as opposed to the '14 million' that they feed the sheep.

I think it is the ARIS survey that found the US was 1.6% Mormon in 1980, and 1.6% in 2002. There was NO growth in market share during the period they were screaming about the fastest growing church on the planet.

Lying for the lord.


Loins of Fire
uh huh
How come I don't believe this:

"In Africa and Latin America, however, Jensen said that interest in the LDS was so strong that the church has cut back baptisms in order to better care for new members."

I don't believe it's that strong.
I don't believe they woudl EVER cut back.
I don't believe they show "better" care once they've been baptised.

Cynical old bastard that I am.


Charlie
Re: So he is claiming that "church doctrine" changes ?
The MO is so very 1984esk.

However, I was taught that god said, "I am the same yesterday, today and forever. My path is one eternal round."

How then can doctrine change? Situational truth, that which the chruch teaches today, is but another word for lies.


hello
Re: uh huh
Loins of Fire Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
How come I don't believe this:
>
In Africa and Latin America, however, Jensen said
that interest in the LDS was so strong that the
church has cut back baptisms in order to better
; care for new members."

Oh yeah. That's what they are doing. CUTTING BACK on baptisms. Yeah, that sounds right...

Amazing they can say this with a straight face.


matt
Well now, Mr Jensen your daughter has a VERY good question
>"My own daughter," he then added, "has come to me and said, 'Dad, why didn't you ever tell me that Joseph Smith was a polygamist?'"

Why didn't you tell her?


Glo
Re: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies
I wouldn't be bit surprised if they proceeded more cautiously in Africa than they did in South America.

After all, these people are BLACK, not even Lamanites LOL.

Besides, how would it look if the majority of members were black - with all the top leadership being white LOL.


steve benson
Here's the damning excerpt from the article . . .
"Jensen, the church's official historian, would not provide any figures on the rate of defections, but he told Reuters that attrition has accelerated in the last five or 10 years, reflecting greater secularization of society. Many religions have been suffering similarly, he noted, arguing that Mormonism has never been more vibrant.

"'I think we are at a time of challenge, but it isn't apocalyptic,' he said.

"The LDS church claims 14 million members worldwide -- optimistically including nearly every person baptized. But census data from some foreign countries targeted by clean-cut young missionaries show that the retention rate for their converts is as low as 25 percent. In the U.S., only about half of Mormons are active members of the church, said Washington State University emeritus sociologist Armand Mauss, a leading researcher on Mormons.

"Sociologists estimate there are as few as 5 million active members worldwide."


derrida
Re: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies
I love the idea of gays across the country going to homestead and lay down roots in Salt Lake City. An exodus from various parts of the country such as peopled San Francisco with its current pro-gay culture.

Wouldn't that be a hoot? Salt Lake City, the San Francisco of the Intermountain West: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermountain_West.


Kendal Mint Cake
Re: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies
I bet they are still most eager to baptise potential priesthood holders with healthy bank balances.


steve benson
Related link: SLC media reporting a plummet in Mormon membership . . .
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,405079


ozpoof
I suspect the Advocate is trying to get gays to visit SLC to force the Zion Curtain open. 

honestone
Re: Thanks. That's interesting. Notice the articles says the church is giving its "pasters" new teaching materials? lol
Pastors???....or DID they spell it wrong. And since when do Mormons have pastors???


ozpoof
Those poor bastards in Africa and Latin America.
Although, can you imagine the CULT *really* growing in places like Brazil and Argentina where they seem to actually love life? Why give up that for drone work and kicking up to an evil, lying corporation?

They're all on the internet anyway. We need a Spanish sister site to this one and translators to get the word out about these CULT scum.

As for Africa, they won't be able to keep a lid on their dirty racist secrets. Nigeria is an English speaking country, as is RSA - both sites of new temples. They will be able to access all the filthy truth.

Tithing revenue is low for these places now, but as the people grow richer, they become more global. They will find out, and sooner than the Westerners. I doubt there will be a second generation of Mormons in many of these countries.


archytas
Re: HUGE: Church finally admits member dropping like flies
I love the nugget about BoM dna. Hope some TBM's see it.

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"