So how much help is the Mormon church now giving members and nonmembers?

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>by dk Jan 2012</p>\n<p>Their lack of humanitarian aid is disgusting - especially for a so called church. The numbers below are from an official Mormon church publication. Notice how they use the sum of a 25 year span to make the number look significant.</p>\n<p>It\'s been a long time since I posted here. With Mittens in the news, message boards routinely have people saying how the LDS church helps all its members in need and even those who are not members. Members\' tithes are always well spent and the humanitarian outpouring from the church will save the world and end hunger and poverty as we know it. (The next best thing to golden plates.)</p>\n<p>I had some very bad experiences with the LDS church and \"helping\" its members in need, so I really take objection to such statements. I know there are members who do &amp; did receive help when needed. But I also knew that bishops can pick and choose who they help and can be very capricious and can make members beg and grovel before any help is forth coming. It was not the utopia the church likes the media to believe. Or is it?</p>\n<p>Has the LDS church changed? Does it really help anyone in need that shows up at the church door? Does it now give full financial disclosure of the money it receives and what it is spent on?</p>\n<hr />\nEric K<br />\n<b>Actual numbers </b>\n<p>Their lack of humanitarian aid is disgusting - especially for a so called church. The numbers below are from an official Mormon church publication. Notice how they use the sum of a 25 year span to make the number look significant. Breaking it down to an annual basis and to a per member basis demonstrates how little the Mormon church gives in charitable aid. </p>\n<p><a href=\"http://www.providentliving.org/welfare/pdf/WelfareFactSheet.pdf\" title=\"http://www.providentliving.org/welfare/pdf/WelfareFactSheet.pdf\">http://www.providentliving.org/welfare/pdf/WelfareFactSheet.pdf</a></p>\n<p>Humanitarian assistance rendered (1985-2009)<br />\nCash Donations $327.6 million<br />\nValue of Material Assistance $884.6 million</p>\n<p>The value of material assistance is a wild guess from materials donated by members and not directly out of the church\'s pocket. We will assume that it actually came from the church directly for simplicity.</p>\n<p>Let\'s look at the numbers.</p>\n<p>Total number of years: 25 years<br />\nTotal amount of aid: $1,212.2 million (cash 327.6 + materials 884.6)</p>\n<p>Amount of aid per year: ($1,212.2 / 25 yr) = <b>$48.5 million per year </b></p>\n<p>Let\'s assume an average of 12 million members of the church over that 25 year time span.</p>\n<p>($80.8 / 12) =<b> $6.73 per member given in charitable aid per year!!!</b></p>\n<p>Just so that this is clear - The Mormon church only gives out $6.73 in charitable aid per member per year. </p>\n<p>Are you disgusted yet? How many thousand of dollars did most of us give in tithing and did so faithfully for years. Where did all this money go? Shopping malls. Resort hotels. Hunting preserves for the wealthy and for general authorities. etc.</p>\n<p>Mormons should have their own occupy movement and quit paying tithing until the books are opened. The media should demand openness of a non-profit organization. Most for profit public corporations give more charitable aid per employee than this so called church.</p>\n<p>As a reference, here is some info on the $3,000,000,000 (3 billion dollar) mall: <a href=\"http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon403.htm\" title=\"http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon403.htm\">http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon403.htm</a></p>\n<p>The cost of the mall (assuming now 14 million members) is ($3,000 million / 14 million members) = $214 per member. Compare that to the charitable aid. Is this a church or a corporation?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Leah<br />\nRe: So how much help is the church now giving members &amp; nonmembers?<br />\nApostle Oaks gave a talk in the Midwest last summer, telling the members that the morg won\'t help them.</p>\n<hr />\nkmackie<br />\nRe: So how much help is the church now giving members &amp; nonmembers?<br />\nOne ocassion I arrived at Church early,had to go to the kitchen to leave some dishes for someone,opened the door to see a family of four seated round a table eating tomato soup,I vaguely recognized them,I just said hi how are you and went out,discovered later they had turned up at the church door looking for help,benefit paymets had failed to arrive,which happens with great regularity here in scotland,what did TSSC give them,a tin of heinz tomato soup,AND they had to eat it in the building where all and sundry could see there humiliation,sooo gladdd to be out,simply crazy.\n<hr />\ndk<br />\nRe: So how much help is the church now giving members &amp; nonmembers?<br />\nMy neighbor, who passed away several years ago, was struggling to make ends meet. She was disabled and did not have any work that month. She went to her bishop to ask for help and was told the church had no money to help her. This conversation was near other members, so she said very loudly, \"what happen to all the tithes I paid?\" She was swiftly escort out of the building. I helped her get out of the church after that.\n<hr />\n<p>Ex-CultMember<br />\nRe: So how much help is the church now giving members &amp; nonmembers?<br />\nTithing does NOT help people, that\'s what fast offerings are for. Tithing goes to build expense multi-million dollar temples and tv commercials.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>dk<br />\nRe: So how much help is the church now giving members &amp; nonmembers?<br />\nI guess the church should make that abundantly clear to all. Personally, I see tithing as the price of admission to the temple. I never had a temple recommend because I never went to a tithing settlement. I didn\'t think my income was any of the church\'s business. Plus, I suspected I was earning more than some of the men. With a lay priesthood and men who may have had similar jobs, I really didn\'t trust members with that information. Just another pitfall of a lay priesthood.</p>\n<hr />\nmoi<br />\nRe: So how much help is the church now giving members &amp; nonmembers?<br />\nMy husband\'s ex is a TBM and they are in the throes of a custody dispute. Her Ward paid $11k of a custody evaluator bill. Who knows what else they are paying for.\n<hr />\n<p>Mia<br />\nRe: So how much help is the church now giving members &amp; nonmembers?<br />\nHoly shiz. I couldn\'t get them to reimburse me for a $20 table cloth.</p>\n<hr />\nmoi<br />\nRe: So how much help is the church now giving members &amp; nonmembers?<br />\nYeah Mia....we know she lies about everything. I\'m sure she told them that her son was being stolen from her (when in actuality the (lower) court had taken him away because she was alleging we were sexually abusing him and had exposed him to many investigations, interviews and examinations). Unfortunately, the (higher) court thinks she\'s telling the truth and awarded him back to her custody, even tho two experts said she shouldn\'t raise him, my husband should. We are appealing but she\'s a TBM and the court is in the middle of SLC and we aren\'t MORmONS.\n<hr />\nMia<br />\nRe: So how much help is the church now giving members &amp; nonmembers?<br />\nI am so sorry you are going through this. I have been there with my husbands ex wife. It was one of the most stressful times of my life. In the end his son chose to live with us when he turned 11. It is so hard to live with the legal tango day in and day out. It feels like there is no end. I hope it all works out for you. I do know how maddening it can be.\n<hr />\nupsidedown<br />\nRe: So how much help is the church now giving members &amp; nonmembers?<br />\nI don\'t think that the church helps people out much at all. I lost my job, got cancer, forclosed on my house, and divorced all in the same year. I had a close relationship with my bishop for years....remodeled his house 2 times, kids played sports together, camping trips, etc....\n<p>He never gave me a dime....or a phone call. Lesson learned.</p>\n<hr />\nmatt<br />\nIt seems to vary wildly<br />\nIn my mother\'s ward they seem to look out for one another, help is provided to the needy, but it\'s done privately and with the minimum amount of fuss.\n<p>Yet in the same ward, years ago, the Bishop was an utter arse about providing help.</p>\n<p>The current Bishop seems cool and works with EQ/RS to do his best to ensure people are helped.</p>\n<p>But based on previous experience, all that could change should another arse be chosen as Bishop.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>freeman<br />\nRe: So how much help is the church now giving members &amp;nonmembers?<br />\nWhat a f***ing cheap arse Bishop! A can of f***ing soup! I would have done a lot better than that from my own pockets if I knew a family in need like that. My TBM dad would have too, when he was Bishop.</p>\n<p>freeman<br />\n...and shopping malls...&nbsp;</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Pam Arnold<br />\nRe: So how much help is the church now giving members &amp; nonmembers?<br />\nI have two sets of friends who have asked for church assistance. Both of their families only needed help with food for a couple of months at the most. Both are active tithe payers. Both were turned down. And both families still think this is the Church run by Jesus Christ. :( While I was in the Relief Society Presidency we had a lady from the ward who was in a wheel chair and was also a Vet of the Navy. She had serious back injury and could no longer work. A single sister. The Bishop told her she needed to get on public assistance. The church is too busy spending money on buildings and malls to invest in a Christian philosophy. I started attending a non-denominational church right after leaving the morg and couldn\'t believe my eyes when right there in their bulletin was a financial statement. They update it weekly and that church gives over 80% to missions and the needy. A nice change. I love no secrets.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>dk<br />\nRe: So how much help is the church now giving members &amp; nonmembers?<br />\nSo, not much has changed. Except, maybe, better PR by the church.</p>\n<hr />\ncl2<br />\nExcept for the huge new warehouse they just opened or dedicated<br />\nyesterday and all members of the audience took home a bag of food (and it didn\'t look like there were any needy people there).\n<p>I did get help from the LDS church. It does depend on the bishop VERY MUCH SO.</p>\n<p>When I got help, I had NO CLUE how they treated others so I told several single mothers who were very much in need to go ask their bishops. NOT ONE got help.</p>\n<hr />\nforensis<br />\nRe: Except for the huge new warehouse they just opened or dedicated<br />\nThis issue pisses me off because it goes along with service too. How much actual service outside of church callings did you ever give? Me? The one or two times a year. That\'s it and is pretty lame for saying serving others is serving god.\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1406116441, expire = 1406202841, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:862dad4b12c3db7411251d4f3f89a9e2' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

by dk Jan 2012

Their lack of humanitarian aid is disgusting - especially for a so called church. The numbers below are from an official Mormon church publication. Notice how they use the sum of a 25 year span to make the number look significant.

It's been a long time since I posted here. With Mittens in the news, message boards routinely have people saying how the LDS church helps all its members in need and even those who are not members. Members' tithes are always well spent and the humanitarian outpouring from the church will save the world and end hunger and poverty as we know it. (The next best thing to golden plates.)

I had some very bad experiences with the LDS church and "helping" its members in need, so I really take objection to such statements. I know there are members who do & did receive help when needed. But I also knew that bishops can pick and choose who they help and can be very capricious and can make members beg and grovel before any help is forth coming. It was not the utopia the church likes the media to believe. Or is it?

Has the LDS church changed? Does it really help anyone in need that shows up at the church door? Does it now give full financial disclosure of the money it receives and what it is spent on?


Eric K
Actual numbers

Their lack of humanitarian aid is disgusting - especially for a so called church. The numbers below are from an official Mormon church publication. Notice how they use the sum of a 25 year span to make the number look significant. Breaking it down to an annual basis and to a per member basis demonstrates how little the Mormon church gives in charitable aid.

http://www.providentliving.org/welfare/pdf/WelfareFactSheet.pdf

Humanitarian assistance rendered (1985-2009)
Cash Donations $327.6 million
Value of Material Assistance $884.6 million

The value of material assistance is a wild guess from materials donated by members and not directly out of the church's pocket. We will assume that it actually came from the church directly for simplicity.

Let's look at the numbers.

Total number of years: 25 years
Total amount of aid: $1,212.2 million (cash 327.6 + materials 884.6)

Amount of aid per year: ($1,212.2 / 25 yr) = $48.5 million per year

Let's assume an average of 12 million members of the church over that 25 year time span.

($80.8 / 12) = $6.73 per member given in charitable aid per year!!!

Just so that this is clear - The Mormon church only gives out $6.73 in charitable aid per member per year.

Are you disgusted yet? How many thousand of dollars did most of us give in tithing and did so faithfully for years. Where did all this money go? Shopping malls. Resort hotels. Hunting preserves for the wealthy and for general authorities. etc.

Mormons should have their own occupy movement and quit paying tithing until the books are opened. The media should demand openness of a non-profit organization. Most for profit public corporations give more charitable aid per employee than this so called church.

As a reference, here is some info on the $3,000,000,000 (3 billion dollar) mall: http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon403.htm

The cost of the mall (assuming now 14 million members) is ($3,000 million / 14 million members) = $214 per member. Compare that to the charitable aid. Is this a church or a corporation?


Leah
Re: So how much help is the church now giving members & nonmembers?
Apostle Oaks gave a talk in the Midwest last summer, telling the members that the morg won't help them.


kmackie
Re: So how much help is the church now giving members & nonmembers?
One ocassion I arrived at Church early,had to go to the kitchen to leave some dishes for someone,opened the door to see a family of four seated round a table eating tomato soup,I vaguely recognized them,I just said hi how are you and went out,discovered later they had turned up at the church door looking for help,benefit paymets had failed to arrive,which happens with great regularity here in scotland,what did TSSC give them,a tin of heinz tomato soup,AND they had to eat it in the building where all and sundry could see there humiliation,sooo gladdd to be out,simply crazy.
dk
Re: So how much help is the church now giving members & nonmembers?
My neighbor, who passed away several years ago, was struggling to make ends meet. She was disabled and did not have any work that month. She went to her bishop to ask for help and was told the church had no money to help her. This conversation was near other members, so she said very loudly, "what happen to all the tithes I paid?" She was swiftly escort out of the building. I helped her get out of the church after that.

Ex-CultMember
Re: So how much help is the church now giving members & nonmembers?
Tithing does NOT help people, that's what fast offerings are for. Tithing goes to build expense multi-million dollar temples and tv commercials.


dk
Re: So how much help is the church now giving members & nonmembers?
I guess the church should make that abundantly clear to all. Personally, I see tithing as the price of admission to the temple. I never had a temple recommend because I never went to a tithing settlement. I didn't think my income was any of the church's business. Plus, I suspected I was earning more than some of the men. With a lay priesthood and men who may have had similar jobs, I really didn't trust members with that information. Just another pitfall of a lay priesthood.


moi
Re: So how much help is the church now giving members & nonmembers?
My husband's ex is a TBM and they are in the throes of a custody dispute. Her Ward paid $11k of a custody evaluator bill. Who knows what else they are paying for.

Mia
Re: So how much help is the church now giving members & nonmembers?
Holy shiz. I couldn't get them to reimburse me for a $20 table cloth.


moi
Re: So how much help is the church now giving members & nonmembers?
Yeah Mia....we know she lies about everything. I'm sure she told them that her son was being stolen from her (when in actuality the (lower) court had taken him away because she was alleging we were sexually abusing him and had exposed him to many investigations, interviews and examinations). Unfortunately, the (higher) court thinks she's telling the truth and awarded him back to her custody, even tho two experts said she shouldn't raise him, my husband should. We are appealing but she's a TBM and the court is in the middle of SLC and we aren't MORmONS.
Mia
Re: So how much help is the church now giving members & nonmembers?
I am so sorry you are going through this. I have been there with my husbands ex wife. It was one of the most stressful times of my life. In the end his son chose to live with us when he turned 11. It is so hard to live with the legal tango day in and day out. It feels like there is no end. I hope it all works out for you. I do know how maddening it can be.
upsidedown
Re: So how much help is the church now giving members & nonmembers?
I don't think that the church helps people out much at all. I lost my job, got cancer, forclosed on my house, and divorced all in the same year. I had a close relationship with my bishop for years....remodeled his house 2 times, kids played sports together, camping trips, etc....

He never gave me a dime....or a phone call. Lesson learned.


matt
It seems to vary wildly
In my mother's ward they seem to look out for one another, help is provided to the needy, but it's done privately and with the minimum amount of fuss.

Yet in the same ward, years ago, the Bishop was an utter arse about providing help.

The current Bishop seems cool and works with EQ/RS to do his best to ensure people are helped.

But based on previous experience, all that could change should another arse be chosen as Bishop.


freeman
Re: So how much help is the church now giving members &nonmembers?
What a f***ing cheap arse Bishop! A can of f***ing soup! I would have done a lot better than that from my own pockets if I knew a family in need like that. My TBM dad would have too, when he was Bishop.

freeman
...and shopping malls... 


Pam Arnold
Re: So how much help is the church now giving members & nonmembers?
I have two sets of friends who have asked for church assistance. Both of their families only needed help with food for a couple of months at the most. Both are active tithe payers. Both were turned down. And both families still think this is the Church run by Jesus Christ. :( While I was in the Relief Society Presidency we had a lady from the ward who was in a wheel chair and was also a Vet of the Navy. She had serious back injury and could no longer work. A single sister. The Bishop told her she needed to get on public assistance. The church is too busy spending money on buildings and malls to invest in a Christian philosophy. I started attending a non-denominational church right after leaving the morg and couldn't believe my eyes when right there in their bulletin was a financial statement. They update it weekly and that church gives over 80% to missions and the needy. A nice change. I love no secrets.


dk
Re: So how much help is the church now giving members & nonmembers?
So, not much has changed. Except, maybe, better PR by the church.


cl2
Except for the huge new warehouse they just opened or dedicated
yesterday and all members of the audience took home a bag of food (and it didn't look like there were any needy people there).

I did get help from the LDS church. It does depend on the bishop VERY MUCH SO.

When I got help, I had NO CLUE how they treated others so I told several single mothers who were very much in need to go ask their bishops. NOT ONE got help.


forensis
Re: Except for the huge new warehouse they just opened or dedicated
This issue pisses me off because it goes along with service too. How much actual service outside of church callings did you ever give? Me? The one or two times a year. That's it and is pretty lame for saying serving others is serving god.

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"