Mormon Church is Polling on its New Essays (what does this mean?)

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>johnnyboy Mar. 2013</p>\n<p>So the church is doing some confidential polling on all kinds of stuff. Mainly the essays and what impact they have had so far.</p>\n<p><a href=\"https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0cHQPe2_G8fUnU1d2tWTFRURGs/edit?pli=1\" title=\"https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0cHQPe2_G8fUnU1d2tWTFRURGs/edit?pli=1\">https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0cHQPe2_G8fUnU1d2tWTFRURGs/edit?pli=1</a></p>\n<p>These types of polls mean change is happening and people are DEFINITELY leaving in droves.</p>\n<p>Personally, I could never go back even if they did \"change\"</p>\n<hr />\nLevi<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING<br />\nOmg. That\'s big news.\n<p>Thanks to whoever got those screen shots!</p>\n<p>Things are not well.</p>\n<p>\"The information was satisfying\" STRONGLY DISAGREE</p>\n<hr />\n<p>neo2010<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING </p>\n<p>since when did Elohim start to care about what anyone else thinks?</p>\n<hr />\nGreyfort<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING \n<p>No, I couldn\'t go back either. I\'d be happy if they actually changed for the better. But I\'m done with organized religion of any kind.</p>\n<p>I just can\'t put my thinking into a box anymore, where the thinking has been done for me.</p>\n<p>I need to be open to any truth, wherever truth is found.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>johnnyboy<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING </p>\n<p>Since he started polling on temple rituals back in the early 90\'s</p>\n<hr />\n<p>deco<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING </p>\n<p>I think \"market research\" would be more accurate than \"polling\"</p>\n<hr />\nAlpiner<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING<br />\nFascinating.\n<p>For those who don\'t know, Qualtrics (the organization hosting the survey) is a major player in the data-analytics field (they are to surveys what Omniture was to web-traffic analysis). It\'s unlikely this is some kind of informal stake-level or regional-level survey.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>johnnyboy<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING </p>\n<p>What\'s interesting to me is why the essays are conflated with the gay marriage issue. I personally don\'t see a relationship between them. I understand it is for others.</p>\n<p>I guess the church would combine these issues if they figured many people were leaving over them.</p>\n<p>It just struck me as odd. It\'s almost like the church thinks everyone who leaves over the issues in the essays also would be leaving over the gay marriage issue.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>gemini</p>\n<p>Re: CHURCH IS POLLING<br />\nOk, do other churches do market research, polling, or whatever they want to call it to see how the wind is blowing with its members? This is what corporations do....oh, wait....never mind.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>brigantia<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING </p>\n<p>Oh my!</p>\n<p>They\'re clutching at straws to say \"See your Worship -we are open and honest in our dealings with our minions\'</p>\n<p>They are trying to set in place before trial a cleaned up version of the mess.</p>\n<p>They\'ll be opening up soup kitchens and homeless shelters next.</p>\n<p>Not that I wish to give them any ideas - there have been plenty of those working under their noses for years.</p>\n<p>They couldn\'t be more transparent.</p>\n<p>Briggy</p>\n<hr />\njohnnyboy<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING \n<p>I\'m also curious as to the demographics of who they are polling. Are these younger 18-40 yr old members? Are they 50-70 yr olds?</p>\n<p>The older generation is staunchly against gay marriage in general. I imagine this is going to younger adult members</p>\n<hr />\n<p>zenmaster<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING </p>\n<p>I was in some stake leadership meeting last weekend and all we could talk about is how to reactivate the inactives. I almost felt sorry for my Stake President (he really is a nice guy) when he made a comment at the end about resignation letters that he has received saying something to to the likes of that its sad that people leaving over one little issue. I was chomping at the bit to stand up and say that it\'s more than one little issue...do you want to hear about some of them?...have you read the UK Fraud summons...what do you know bout the translation of the Book of Abraham?...sure there would have been a collective gasp in the room :)</p>\n<hr />\nroslyn<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING \n<p>They\'ve been doing this polling for a few years, or at least I\'ve been on the list and sent polls several times a year for the past few years.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>anagrammy<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING </p>\n<p>One immediately notices the absence of the all-important</p>\n<p>\"Was the information ACCURATE?\"</p>\n<p>Oh, wait, I forgot-- it\'s not about facts, but belief.</p>\n<p>Mormons are not queried about beliefs at the temple recommend interview, nor at the tithing settlement meeting, so clearly leadership doesn\'t give a rat\'s ass what people believe about the First Vision or anything else as long as they keep paying.</p>\n<p>The market research is to determine the efficacy of the new product packaging, just like all businesses do.</p>\n<p>If the consumer prefers the red bottle cap, red it will be.</p>\n<p>Anagrammy</p>\n<hr />\njohnnyboy<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING \n<p>And you\'re not posting them because????</p>\n<p>What other polls have you received? The only one I remember in the past was on scouting.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>janstorm<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING </p>\n<p>Why should God make holy decrees anymore? It\'s much easier for the prophets to get revelation through polling the members. Revelation from God is so overrated.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>johnnyboy<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING </p>\n<p>Yes. Gotta keep the money flowing in</p>\n<p>johnnyboy<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING<br />\nI\'m curious what that stake president thought that \"one little issue\" was?</p>\n<p>You would think if that many people are leaving over ONE issue it might be not so little</p>\n<hr />\nSouthern ExMo<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING<br />\nThe older generation is where the wealth is.\n<p>The younger kids -- unless they are born into wealth -- don\'t have the large tithing checks that makes their opinion worth anything to the Profit and the other 14.</p>\n<p>The over 50 set have money, and they have real estate that they can be conned into leaving to TSCC instead of their children/grandchildren when they die.</p>\n<p>That makes THEIR opinion of value, in the eyes of TSCC administrators and accountants.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Alpiner<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING </p>\n<p>The questions asked kinda threw me too. Usually, you\'ll see polls that will fall into one of three categories.</p>\n<p>1) Information gathering. IE, \"How do you feel about X?\" You\'ll see a lot of politicos deploy polls like this. Essentially, it\'s holding your figure to the wind.</p>\n<p>2) Message conveyance. Sometimes, people will already have a fixed political idea (in the case of this poll, \"Gay marriage is bad\") and will then poll on the best ways to get that message across. I see a lot of that in this poll, in matter of fact -- the taker is presented with multiple options as to how opposition to gay marriage may be legitimized.</p>\n<p>3) Push-polling. This is a dirty tactic, generally along the lines of \"Which of candidate X\'s unconsitutional laws are you most opposed to?\" It\'s pretty much opposition couched in a poll to give it a veneer of legitimacy.</p>\n<p>I don\'t think the church has its finger to the wind quite yet. I think the top 15 have decided to stick to their message, and have asked middle / lower management to determine how best to get it out there. That\'s why you see a more tech-savvy poll proffered by a top-notch name in the business (unlike the Xeros copies used in the 1989 temple survey), and why there aren\'t any questions about whether or not you\'d come back if policy changed (or leave if policy changed, as the case may be).</p>\n<hr />\nanon4areason<br />\ndeflection\n<p>It\'s a bait and switch - the church isn\'t really interested in the members responses to the essays - if they were they would have asked the same set of questions about each essay. They are interested in where they stand with members on the gay marriage issue but they DON\'T HAVE THE NERVE to make it explicit. I especially liked the \"I have been discriminated against because of the church\'s stance on same sex marriage\" ... I searched in vain for a corresponding statement that asked for a response to \"I have discriminated against people with same sex attraction.\"</p>\n<hr />\ncricket<br />\nSample question they accidentally omitted\n<p>Which of the following methods best describes how you obtain the latest, most up to date and accurate information about The LDS Church.</p>\n<p>1. clicking on <a href=\"http://www.lds.org\" title=\"www.lds.org\">www.lds.org</a></p>\n<p>2. clicking on <a href=\"http://www.exmormon.org\" title=\"www.exmormon.org\">www.exmormon.org</a></p>\n<p>3. praying for the still small voice while Googling key words about your questions</p>\n<p>4. writing lengthy heart wrenching letters to your favorite General Authority knowing that speaking directly for the Lord about your personal predicament he will respond promptly and with compassion.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>deco<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING </p>\n<p>So was the collection of market research data counseled to Tommy Monson during his weekly visits with Jess?</p>\n<p>Why would Jess not have just told Tommy the answer rather than wasting money from the lords coffers to get this information?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>johnnyboy<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING </p>\n<p>Yes. Thanks for your input on this. I felt the same, like they already have their conclusions. Sadly, their conclusions are usually completely way off base. It\'s only taken them 100 years to realize and acknowledge that people aren\'t leaving to \"sin\".</p>\n<hr />\n<p>roslyn<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING </p>\n<p>Well I\'ve only recently started posting here. The last one I got was about genealogy, it asked what sites I had been to in the last few months and which genealogy sites I had been to. In January I got one about curriculum. In December I was asked to watch a mormon messages video.</p>\n<p>If I get anymore in the future I will post them here. I usually get one once every other month or two.</p>\n<hr />\njohnnyboy<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING \n<p>I should make a t shirt that says:</p>\n<p>Jesus hearts marketing research</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Eric K<br />\nWow - this is very revealing</p>\n<p>Thanks for posting this. It was always obvious, but now it is becoming crystal clear, the corporation is run by opinion polls. What revelation?</p>\n<p>Anonymous essays are now defining Mormon doctrine and history. Mormon Church, \"If you do not like the current version of doctrine or history, we will rewrite it for you\".</p>\n<hr />\n<p>johnnyboy<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING </p>\n<p>That would be great. I\'m sure people would be interested in the ones on curriculum.</p>\n<p>Glad you are posting now.</p>\n<hr />\ndazed11<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING \n<p>A church can\'t remain a vital organization if all the young people leave and it is just a bunch of old people, no matter how rich the old people are. There will be no one to do the important callings and make the church run. Eventually the old people will die and that money stream will dry up. Also there are plenty of young people who make a good income. One young person in the United States making 40k a year probably pays more tithing than 10 members in Africa.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>johnnyboy<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING<br />\nThe ward and stake I am in out here in north Dallas has most members aged 35/45 all easily making six figures or more.</p>\n<p>Easily.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>ish<br />\nRe: CHURCH IS POLLING </p>\n<p>The way the SP worded what he said could also mean that each resigner is leaving over one particular issue--that does not mean that the resigners do not cite different issues.</p>\n<p>The essays that the Corporation has posted address multiple issues any one of which can be a deal breaker.</p>\n<hr />\ngentlestrength\n<p>Re: CHURCH IS POLLING<br />\nToo bad you can\'t do that. That could possibly help someone in the room begin to transition to a better belief system than Mormonism (TBM, NOM, Jack)</p>\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1496050733, expire = 1496137133, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:7c92c7ce9c4803597eea85206c7ea381' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

johnnyboy Mar. 2013

So the church is doing some confidential polling on all kinds of stuff. Mainly the essays and what impact they have had so far.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0cHQPe2_G8fUnU1d2tWTFRURGs/edit?pli=1

These types of polls mean change is happening and people are DEFINITELY leaving in droves.

Personally, I could never go back even if they did "change"


Levi
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING
Omg. That's big news.

Thanks to whoever got those screen shots!

Things are not well.

"The information was satisfying" STRONGLY DISAGREE


neo2010
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

since when did Elohim start to care about what anyone else thinks?


Greyfort
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

No, I couldn't go back either. I'd be happy if they actually changed for the better. But I'm done with organized religion of any kind.

I just can't put my thinking into a box anymore, where the thinking has been done for me.

I need to be open to any truth, wherever truth is found.


johnnyboy
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

Since he started polling on temple rituals back in the early 90's


deco
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

I think "market research" would be more accurate than "polling"


Alpiner
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING
Fascinating.

For those who don't know, Qualtrics (the organization hosting the survey) is a major player in the data-analytics field (they are to surveys what Omniture was to web-traffic analysis). It's unlikely this is some kind of informal stake-level or regional-level survey.


johnnyboy
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

What's interesting to me is why the essays are conflated with the gay marriage issue. I personally don't see a relationship between them. I understand it is for others.

I guess the church would combine these issues if they figured many people were leaving over them.

It just struck me as odd. It's almost like the church thinks everyone who leaves over the issues in the essays also would be leaving over the gay marriage issue.


gemini

Re: CHURCH IS POLLING
Ok, do other churches do market research, polling, or whatever they want to call it to see how the wind is blowing with its members? This is what corporations do....oh, wait....never mind.


brigantia
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

Oh my!

They're clutching at straws to say "See your Worship -we are open and honest in our dealings with our minions'

They are trying to set in place before trial a cleaned up version of the mess.

They'll be opening up soup kitchens and homeless shelters next.

Not that I wish to give them any ideas - there have been plenty of those working under their noses for years.

They couldn't be more transparent.

Briggy


johnnyboy
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

I'm also curious as to the demographics of who they are polling. Are these younger 18-40 yr old members? Are they 50-70 yr olds?

The older generation is staunchly against gay marriage in general. I imagine this is going to younger adult members


zenmaster
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

I was in some stake leadership meeting last weekend and all we could talk about is how to reactivate the inactives. I almost felt sorry for my Stake President (he really is a nice guy) when he made a comment at the end about resignation letters that he has received saying something to to the likes of that its sad that people leaving over one little issue. I was chomping at the bit to stand up and say that it's more than one little issue...do you want to hear about some of them?...have you read the UK Fraud summons...what do you know bout the translation of the Book of Abraham?...sure there would have been a collective gasp in the room :)


roslyn
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

They've been doing this polling for a few years, or at least I've been on the list and sent polls several times a year for the past few years.


anagrammy
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

One immediately notices the absence of the all-important

"Was the information ACCURATE?"

Oh, wait, I forgot-- it's not about facts, but belief.

Mormons are not queried about beliefs at the temple recommend interview, nor at the tithing settlement meeting, so clearly leadership doesn't give a rat's ass what people believe about the First Vision or anything else as long as they keep paying.

The market research is to determine the efficacy of the new product packaging, just like all businesses do.

If the consumer prefers the red bottle cap, red it will be.

Anagrammy


johnnyboy
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

And you're not posting them because????

What other polls have you received? The only one I remember in the past was on scouting.


janstorm
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

Why should God make holy decrees anymore? It's much easier for the prophets to get revelation through polling the members. Revelation from God is so overrated.


johnnyboy
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

Yes. Gotta keep the money flowing in

johnnyboy
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING
I'm curious what that stake president thought that "one little issue" was?

You would think if that many people are leaving over ONE issue it might be not so little


Southern ExMo
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING
The older generation is where the wealth is.

The younger kids -- unless they are born into wealth -- don't have the large tithing checks that makes their opinion worth anything to the Profit and the other 14.

The over 50 set have money, and they have real estate that they can be conned into leaving to TSCC instead of their children/grandchildren when they die.

That makes THEIR opinion of value, in the eyes of TSCC administrators and accountants.


Alpiner
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

The questions asked kinda threw me too. Usually, you'll see polls that will fall into one of three categories.

1) Information gathering. IE, "How do you feel about X?" You'll see a lot of politicos deploy polls like this. Essentially, it's holding your figure to the wind.

2) Message conveyance. Sometimes, people will already have a fixed political idea (in the case of this poll, "Gay marriage is bad") and will then poll on the best ways to get that message across. I see a lot of that in this poll, in matter of fact -- the taker is presented with multiple options as to how opposition to gay marriage may be legitimized.

3) Push-polling. This is a dirty tactic, generally along the lines of "Which of candidate X's unconsitutional laws are you most opposed to?" It's pretty much opposition couched in a poll to give it a veneer of legitimacy.

I don't think the church has its finger to the wind quite yet. I think the top 15 have decided to stick to their message, and have asked middle / lower management to determine how best to get it out there. That's why you see a more tech-savvy poll proffered by a top-notch name in the business (unlike the Xeros copies used in the 1989 temple survey), and why there aren't any questions about whether or not you'd come back if policy changed (or leave if policy changed, as the case may be).


anon4areason
deflection

It's a bait and switch - the church isn't really interested in the members responses to the essays - if they were they would have asked the same set of questions about each essay. They are interested in where they stand with members on the gay marriage issue but they DON'T HAVE THE NERVE to make it explicit. I especially liked the "I have been discriminated against because of the church's stance on same sex marriage" ... I searched in vain for a corresponding statement that asked for a response to "I have discriminated against people with same sex attraction."


cricket
Sample question they accidentally omitted

Which of the following methods best describes how you obtain the latest, most up to date and accurate information about The LDS Church.

1. clicking on www.lds.org

2. clicking on www.exmormon.org

3. praying for the still small voice while Googling key words about your questions

4. writing lengthy heart wrenching letters to your favorite General Authority knowing that speaking directly for the Lord about your personal predicament he will respond promptly and with compassion.


deco
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

So was the collection of market research data counseled to Tommy Monson during his weekly visits with Jess?

Why would Jess not have just told Tommy the answer rather than wasting money from the lords coffers to get this information?


johnnyboy
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

Yes. Thanks for your input on this. I felt the same, like they already have their conclusions. Sadly, their conclusions are usually completely way off base. It's only taken them 100 years to realize and acknowledge that people aren't leaving to "sin".


roslyn
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

Well I've only recently started posting here. The last one I got was about genealogy, it asked what sites I had been to in the last few months and which genealogy sites I had been to. In January I got one about curriculum. In December I was asked to watch a mormon messages video.

If I get anymore in the future I will post them here. I usually get one once every other month or two.


johnnyboy
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

I should make a t shirt that says:

Jesus hearts marketing research


Eric K
Wow - this is very revealing

Thanks for posting this. It was always obvious, but now it is becoming crystal clear, the corporation is run by opinion polls. What revelation?

Anonymous essays are now defining Mormon doctrine and history. Mormon Church, "If you do not like the current version of doctrine or history, we will rewrite it for you".


johnnyboy
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

That would be great. I'm sure people would be interested in the ones on curriculum.

Glad you are posting now.


dazed11
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

A church can't remain a vital organization if all the young people leave and it is just a bunch of old people, no matter how rich the old people are. There will be no one to do the important callings and make the church run. Eventually the old people will die and that money stream will dry up. Also there are plenty of young people who make a good income. One young person in the United States making 40k a year probably pays more tithing than 10 members in Africa.


johnnyboy
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING
The ward and stake I am in out here in north Dallas has most members aged 35/45 all easily making six figures or more.

Easily.


ish
Re: CHURCH IS POLLING

The way the SP worded what he said could also mean that each resigner is leaving over one particular issue--that does not mean that the resigners do not cite different issues.

The essays that the Corporation has posted address multiple issues any one of which can be a deal breaker.


gentlestrength

Re: CHURCH IS POLLING
Too bad you can't do that. That could possibly help someone in the room begin to transition to a better belief system than Mormonism (TBM, NOM, Jack)

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"