Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story-New York Times Weighs In. .

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>steve benson</p>\n<p>\"Editor of Web Site May Face Mormon Excommunication\"<br />\nby Laurie Goodstein,<br />\n\"New York Times\"<br />\n21 September 2012</p>\n<p>\"The editor of a Web site that encourages Mormons to question Church history and doctrine has been told that he faces a Church trial and possible excommunication because he is an apostate who is trying to lead Church members astray.</p>\n<p>\"David Twede, a fifth-generation Mormon who lives in Florida, is the managing editor of MormonThink, one of the most influential of the many Web sites on which active and former Mormons debate church teaching. Such sites have drawn increased traffic as Mormons turn to the Internet to find answers to controversial questions about Mormon history and traditions that the Church does not address.</p>\n<p>\"The Church has come under heightened scrutiny with the presidential candidacy of Mitt Romney, a Mormon who once served as a bishop. The church went through a spate of public excommunications of prominent scholars and feminists in the early 1990s, but in recent years public excommunications of dissidents have been rare, Church experts said.</p>\n<p>\"Mr. Twede’s situation was first reported on Friday by the Web site \'The Daily Beast,\' which suggested that Mr. Twede was being disciplined because he had posted several articles on MormonThink critical of Mr. Romney. . . .</p>\n<p>\"Michael Purdy, a Church spokesman, said in a statement, \'It is patently false for someone to suggest they face Church discipline for having questions or for expressing a political view.\'</p>\n<p>“\'Church discipline becomes necessary only in those rare occasions when an individual’s actions cannot be ignored while they claim to be in good standing with the Church,\' he wrote. \'Every organization, whether religious or secular, must be able to define where its boundaries begin and end.\'</p>\n<p>\"Scott Gordon, president of the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research, an organization in Redding, Calif., that defends Mormon theology[i.e., the Mormon apologetics outfit FAIR], said that he had forwarded materials posted by Mr. Twede to Church officials in Salt Lake City.</p>\n<p>“\'It has nothing to do with Romney,\' Mr. Gordon said. \'I know members very high up in the Church who are voting for Obama.\'</p>\n<p>“It’s about him posting on a blog that he was actively in there trying to subvert people’s beliefs in the L.D.S. church,” Mr. Gordon said, using the shorthand for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.</p>\n<p>\"Philip Barlow, a professor of Mormon history and culture at Utah State University, said that other Mormon bloggers had posted negative articles about Mr. Romney without any repercussions from the Church.</p>\n<p>“\'You wouldn’t be called to a disciplinary council for criticizing Mitt Romney,\' he said. \'You would be called for doing harm to the Church.\'\"</p>\n<p>(\"Editor of Web Site May Face Mormon Excommunication,\" by Laurie Goodstein, \"New York Times,\" Religion Section, 21 September 21, 2012, at: <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/us/web-site-editor-may-face-mormon-excommunication.html?_r=1\" title=\"http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/us/web-site-editor-may-face-mormon-excommunication.html?_r=1\">http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/us/web-site-editor-may-face-mormon-exc...</a>)<br />\n_____</p>\n<p>C\'mon, now. Who actually believes that finely-spun sophistry (not counting reflexively-obedient-true-believing Mormons)?</p>\n<p>When David and I were communicating recently about getting his situation with his local LDS Church leaders some major national media exposure, he referred me to some of his postings on MormonThink.org--the ones that have led to excommunication plans arranged at his expense.</p>\n<p>These links included:</p>\n<p>--Romney\'s Mormon/Non-Christian view of God:</p>\n<p><a href=\"http://www.mormonthink.com/christian.htm\" title=\"http://www.mormonthink.com/christian.htm\">http://www.mormonthink.com/christian.htm</a></p>\n<p>--The history of the Mormon Church\'s entanglement in politics and the possible implications that history might have for a Romney presidnecy. (This one was described to me by David as \"[a]ctually the article that seemed to piss them off\"):</p>\n<p><a href=\"http://www.MormonThink.com/politics.htm\" title=\"http://www.MormonThink.com/politics.htm\">http://www.MormonThink.com/politics.htm</a></p>\n<p>(For further background on how this incident developed into a national story, see: <a href=\"http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,644285,644285#msg-644285\" title=\"http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,644285,644285#msg-644285\">http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,644285,644285#msg-644285</a>)</p>\n<p>Let\'s get real, folks.</p>\n<p>Posting critical, historically-sound analysis (as David most certainly did) about Mitt Romney\'s non-Christian view of God and about the LDS Church\'s history of entanglement in politics is viewed by the paranoid Mormon Church as doing harm to, um, the paranoid Mormon Church.</p>\n<p>This is a potential biggie.</p>\n<p>*******************</p>\n<p>(related RfM thread at: <a href=\"http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,646049\" title=\"http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,646049\">http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,646049</a>)</p>\n<hr />\n<p>thingsithink<br />\nRe: ***Big Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story: New York Times Weighs In . . .<br />\nCould this story be on the way to 100\'s of local papers?</p>\n<hr />\nforbiddencokedrinker<br />\nRe: ***Big Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story: New York Times Weighs In . . .<br />\nSince most local papers basically just reprint the NYTs, then yes that is what it means. I imagine it getting major traction outside Utah, where the church is seen in the same light as the Scientologist.\n<hr />\n<p>wilford ruffwood<br />\nRe: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In . . .<br />\nawesome. way to go steve, and all others who helped david achieve this well-deserved publicity. let\'s just hope it continues and reaches as many of the \"honest in heart\" as possible.</p>\n<hr />\ncaedmon<br />\nRe: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In . . .<br />\nHow many people will go to the MormonThink site and read about all the things TSCC has being trying to hide!\n<p>This is great news!</p>\n<hr />\n<p>thingsithink<br />\nRe: ***Big Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story: New York Times Weighs In . . .<br />\nSo much for my silly posts about twitter. Nice work Steve and others.</p>\n<p>As much fun as this is to watch, I hope Dave doesn\'t suffer for his honesty.</p>\n<hr />\nsteve benson<br />\nHe\'s in a touchy spot. I admire his courage and hope he holds up.\n<hr />\n<p>katncory<br />\nHypocritical Much?<br />\n\"“It’s about him posting on a blog that he was actively in there trying to subvert people’s beliefs in the L.D.S. church,” Mr. Gordon said, using the shorthand for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.\"</p>\n<p>What exactly do the missionaries do again??</p>\n<hr />\n<p>CA girl<br />\nRe: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .<br />\nOK, I literally can\'t stop smiling. A big day for those who are stand for truth, those with integrity, those who have the courage to do what is right. :)</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Elohim\'s \"godhood\"<br />\nWhat will get this on Jon Stewart or Bill Maher or Penn &amp; Teller?<br />\nDavid mentioned getting the call from Jon or Bill.</p>\n<p>If anything he\'s done will get that, it\'s god\'s dick. (aka, Elohim\'s \"godhood\" as David put it)</p>\n<p>See at the bottom of his blog.</p>\n<p><a href=\"http://mormonthinkblog2012.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-mysteries-of-gospel.html\" title=\"http://mormonthinkblog2012.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-mysteries-of-gospel.html\">http://mormonthinkblog2012.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-mysteries-of-gospel....</a></p>\n<hr />\n<p>knowitsfalse<br />\nRe: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .<br />\nI can\'t stop thinking about all the people who will hopefully be going to mormonthink.com and and learning the truth. While it\'s a bummer for David, it\'s a good thing for getting the truth out I think.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>just a thought<br />\nRe: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .<br />\n\"A History of LDS Politics\" was posted on 9/12. And then a mere 4 days later, they\'ve already decided to hold a church court?</p>\n<p>That is fast. Goes to show what kind of material the church feels really, really defensive about. What the posting implies is that Mitt will just be a puppet for his wizards behind the curtain in SLC. No wonder.</p>\n<hr />\nsteve benson<br />\nIn the NYT story<br />\n\"Scott Gordon, president of the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research, an organization in Redding, Calif., that defends Mormon theology[i.e., the Mormon apologetics outfit FAIR], said that he had forwarded materials posted by Mr. Twede to Church officials in Salt Lake City.\n<p>“\'It has nothing to do with Romney,\' Mr. Gordon said. \'I know members very high up in the Church who are voting for Obama.\'</p>\n<p>“It’s about him posting on a blog that he was actively in there trying to subvert people’s beliefs in the L.D.S. church,” Mr. Gordon said, using the shorthand for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.\"</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Surrender Dorothy<br />\nRe: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .<br />\n&gt;&gt;&gt;\"Philip Barlow, a professor of Mormon history and culture at Utah State University, said that other Mormon bloggers had posted negative articles about Mr. Romney without any repercussions from the Church.</p>\n<p>“\'You wouldn’t be called to a disciplinary council for criticizing Mitt Romney,\' he said. \'You would be called for doing harm to the Church.\'\"</p>\n<p>Doing harm to the church, eh? So if Mitt were to achieve his goal and then do something to \"harm\" the church, would he get a call from TSCC headquarters to cease and desist? Isn\'t this kind of lording of power over its members that a lot of people are worried about when considering if they want a Mormon as the most powerful leader in the world? If Mitt is beholden to Mormon leaders who want to control what members think, speak, and write, where does it end?</p>\n<p>Are the rich and powerful exempt? Is it only the little people who are subject to the scrutiny and judgments from their TSCC leaders? Apparently, the MormonGod is (still) a respecter of persons.</p>\n<hr />\nthingsithink<br />\nRe: What will get this on Jon Stewart or Bill Maher or Penn &amp; Teller?<br />\nThat\'s funny. And you\'re right. Number #3 is enough to get him on the show.\n<hr />\n<p>guynoirprivateeye<br />\nRe: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .<br />\nnow.... I wouldn\'t be surprised if this was postponed.</p>\n<p>If there\'s Anything the PRMorg can\'t tolerate, it\'s questionable press.</p>\n<p>they claim that the things they do are \'inspired\', but We Know the Score.</p>\n<hr />\njust a thought<br />\nRe: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .<br />\nYep, probably postponed until the second Sunday in November.\n<hr />\nLibros<br />\nPR Disaster<br />\nI haven\'t been on here for a while, but I decided to check out the forum after I saw a link to the Daily Beast story on Fark. Public excommunications due to questioning authority make the church appear more and more like Scientology. The morg seems entirely clueless about PR since Hinckley bought the farm. This in no way can generate posivite press in an election year when a mo-bot (extra emphasis on the bot part for Willard) is running for president.\n<p>That aside, I call total BS on this quote:</p>\n<p>“\'It has nothing to do with Romney,\' Mr. Gordon said. \'I know members very high up in the Church who are voting for Obama.\'\"</p>\n<p>Obama supported getting rid of \"Don\'t Ask, Don\'t Tell\" and has publicly stated his support for gay marriage.</p>\n<p>Those two actions alone have alienated Obama from any TBM support. I have never met a priesthood leader with the rank of bishop or higher who would vote for someone openly supportive of gay marriage.</p>\n<p>Perhaps I\'m being unfair, but I have not seen any evidence to indicate otherwise. I have an uncle who was refused a temple recommend by his bishop because he was asked about gay rights/marriage during a recommend interview (definitely NOT part of the script) and he gave the wrong answer.</p>\n<hr />\nsummer<br />\nRe: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .<br />\nFantastic!\n<hr />\n<p>thingsithink<br />\nRe: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .<br />\nThis story seems to be showing up everywhere. I don\'t think they have the balls to ex him.</p>\n<p>I guess we\'ll find out if the morg really has rules or if it\'s a malleable, political machine just making decisions that maximize profits.</p>\n<hr />\nshannon<br />\nRe: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .<br />\nJust smiling away here in Florida. Go David!\n<p>;o)</p>\n<hr />\n<p>truthseeker<br />\nRe: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .<br />\nabsolutely</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Dave the Atheist<br />\n\" “\'It has nothing to do with Romney,\' Mr. Gordon said. \'I know members very high up in the Church who are voting for Obama.\' \"<br />\nI\'ll bet that he knows some black mormons also.</p>\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1490335776, expire = 1490422176, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:66be0034d67ed105e1fe773894884277' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

steve benson

"Editor of Web Site May Face Mormon Excommunication"
by Laurie Goodstein,
"New York Times"
21 September 2012

"The editor of a Web site that encourages Mormons to question Church history and doctrine has been told that he faces a Church trial and possible excommunication because he is an apostate who is trying to lead Church members astray.

"David Twede, a fifth-generation Mormon who lives in Florida, is the managing editor of MormonThink, one of the most influential of the many Web sites on which active and former Mormons debate church teaching. Such sites have drawn increased traffic as Mormons turn to the Internet to find answers to controversial questions about Mormon history and traditions that the Church does not address.

"The Church has come under heightened scrutiny with the presidential candidacy of Mitt Romney, a Mormon who once served as a bishop. The church went through a spate of public excommunications of prominent scholars and feminists in the early 1990s, but in recent years public excommunications of dissidents have been rare, Church experts said.

"Mr. Twede’s situation was first reported on Friday by the Web site 'The Daily Beast,' which suggested that Mr. Twede was being disciplined because he had posted several articles on MormonThink critical of Mr. Romney. . . .

"Michael Purdy, a Church spokesman, said in a statement, 'It is patently false for someone to suggest they face Church discipline for having questions or for expressing a political view.'

“'Church discipline becomes necessary only in those rare occasions when an individual’s actions cannot be ignored while they claim to be in good standing with the Church,' he wrote. 'Every organization, whether religious or secular, must be able to define where its boundaries begin and end.'

"Scott Gordon, president of the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research, an organization in Redding, Calif., that defends Mormon theology[i.e., the Mormon apologetics outfit FAIR], said that he had forwarded materials posted by Mr. Twede to Church officials in Salt Lake City.

“'It has nothing to do with Romney,' Mr. Gordon said. 'I know members very high up in the Church who are voting for Obama.'

“It’s about him posting on a blog that he was actively in there trying to subvert people’s beliefs in the L.D.S. church,” Mr. Gordon said, using the shorthand for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

"Philip Barlow, a professor of Mormon history and culture at Utah State University, said that other Mormon bloggers had posted negative articles about Mr. Romney without any repercussions from the Church.

“'You wouldn’t be called to a disciplinary council for criticizing Mitt Romney,' he said. 'You would be called for doing harm to the Church.'"

("Editor of Web Site May Face Mormon Excommunication," by Laurie Goodstein, "New York Times," Religion Section, 21 September 21, 2012, at: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/us/web-site-editor-may-face-mormon-exc...)
_____

C'mon, now. Who actually believes that finely-spun sophistry (not counting reflexively-obedient-true-believing Mormons)?

When David and I were communicating recently about getting his situation with his local LDS Church leaders some major national media exposure, he referred me to some of his postings on MormonThink.org--the ones that have led to excommunication plans arranged at his expense.

These links included:

--Romney's Mormon/Non-Christian view of God:

http://www.mormonthink.com/christian.htm

--The history of the Mormon Church's entanglement in politics and the possible implications that history might have for a Romney presidnecy. (This one was described to me by David as "[a]ctually the article that seemed to piss them off"):

http://www.MormonThink.com/politics.htm

(For further background on how this incident developed into a national story, see: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,644285,644285#msg-644285)

Let's get real, folks.

Posting critical, historically-sound analysis (as David most certainly did) about Mitt Romney's non-Christian view of God and about the LDS Church's history of entanglement in politics is viewed by the paranoid Mormon Church as doing harm to, um, the paranoid Mormon Church.

This is a potential biggie.

*******************

(related RfM thread at: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,646049)


thingsithink
Re: ***Big Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story: New York Times Weighs In . . .
Could this story be on the way to 100's of local papers?


forbiddencokedrinker
Re: ***Big Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story: New York Times Weighs In . . .
Since most local papers basically just reprint the NYTs, then yes that is what it means. I imagine it getting major traction outside Utah, where the church is seen in the same light as the Scientologist.

wilford ruffwood
Re: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In . . .
awesome. way to go steve, and all others who helped david achieve this well-deserved publicity. let's just hope it continues and reaches as many of the "honest in heart" as possible.


caedmon
Re: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In . . .
How many people will go to the MormonThink site and read about all the things TSCC has being trying to hide!

This is great news!


thingsithink
Re: ***Big Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story: New York Times Weighs In . . .
So much for my silly posts about twitter. Nice work Steve and others.

As much fun as this is to watch, I hope Dave doesn't suffer for his honesty.


steve benson
He's in a touchy spot. I admire his courage and hope he holds up.

katncory
Hypocritical Much?
"“It’s about him posting on a blog that he was actively in there trying to subvert people’s beliefs in the L.D.S. church,” Mr. Gordon said, using the shorthand for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

What exactly do the missionaries do again??


CA girl
Re: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .
OK, I literally can't stop smiling. A big day for those who are stand for truth, those with integrity, those who have the courage to do what is right. :)


Elohim's "godhood"
What will get this on Jon Stewart or Bill Maher or Penn & Teller?
David mentioned getting the call from Jon or Bill.

If anything he's done will get that, it's god's dick. (aka, Elohim's "godhood" as David put it)

See at the bottom of his blog.

http://mormonthinkblog2012.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-mysteries-of-gospel....


knowitsfalse
Re: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .
I can't stop thinking about all the people who will hopefully be going to mormonthink.com and and learning the truth. While it's a bummer for David, it's a good thing for getting the truth out I think.


just a thought
Re: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .
"A History of LDS Politics" was posted on 9/12. And then a mere 4 days later, they've already decided to hold a church court?

That is fast. Goes to show what kind of material the church feels really, really defensive about. What the posting implies is that Mitt will just be a puppet for his wizards behind the curtain in SLC. No wonder.


steve benson
In the NYT story
"Scott Gordon, president of the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research, an organization in Redding, Calif., that defends Mormon theology[i.e., the Mormon apologetics outfit FAIR], said that he had forwarded materials posted by Mr. Twede to Church officials in Salt Lake City.

“'It has nothing to do with Romney,' Mr. Gordon said. 'I know members very high up in the Church who are voting for Obama.'

“It’s about him posting on a blog that he was actively in there trying to subvert people’s beliefs in the L.D.S. church,” Mr. Gordon said, using the shorthand for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."


Surrender Dorothy
Re: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .
>>>"Philip Barlow, a professor of Mormon history and culture at Utah State University, said that other Mormon bloggers had posted negative articles about Mr. Romney without any repercussions from the Church.

“'You wouldn’t be called to a disciplinary council for criticizing Mitt Romney,' he said. 'You would be called for doing harm to the Church.'"

Doing harm to the church, eh? So if Mitt were to achieve his goal and then do something to "harm" the church, would he get a call from TSCC headquarters to cease and desist? Isn't this kind of lording of power over its members that a lot of people are worried about when considering if they want a Mormon as the most powerful leader in the world? If Mitt is beholden to Mormon leaders who want to control what members think, speak, and write, where does it end?

Are the rich and powerful exempt? Is it only the little people who are subject to the scrutiny and judgments from their TSCC leaders? Apparently, the MormonGod is (still) a respecter of persons.


thingsithink
Re: What will get this on Jon Stewart or Bill Maher or Penn & Teller?
That's funny. And you're right. Number #3 is enough to get him on the show.

guynoirprivateeye
Re: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .
now.... I wouldn't be surprised if this was postponed.

If there's Anything the PRMorg can't tolerate, it's questionable press.

they claim that the things they do are 'inspired', but We Know the Score.


just a thought
Re: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .
Yep, probably postponed until the second Sunday in November.
Libros
PR Disaster
I haven't been on here for a while, but I decided to check out the forum after I saw a link to the Daily Beast story on Fark. Public excommunications due to questioning authority make the church appear more and more like Scientology. The morg seems entirely clueless about PR since Hinckley bought the farm. This in no way can generate posivite press in an election year when a mo-bot (extra emphasis on the bot part for Willard) is running for president.

That aside, I call total BS on this quote:

“'It has nothing to do with Romney,' Mr. Gordon said. 'I know members very high up in the Church who are voting for Obama.'"

Obama supported getting rid of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and has publicly stated his support for gay marriage.

Those two actions alone have alienated Obama from any TBM support. I have never met a priesthood leader with the rank of bishop or higher who would vote for someone openly supportive of gay marriage.

Perhaps I'm being unfair, but I have not seen any evidence to indicate otherwise. I have an uncle who was refused a temple recommend by his bishop because he was asked about gay rights/marriage during a recommend interview (definitely NOT part of the script) and he gave the wrong answer.


summer
Re: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .
Fantastic!

thingsithink
Re: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .
This story seems to be showing up everywhere. I don't think they have the balls to ex him.

I guess we'll find out if the morg really has rules or if it's a malleable, political machine just making decisions that maximize profits.


shannon
Re: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .
Just smiling away here in Florida. Go David!

;o)


truthseeker
Re: ***BREAKING NEWS: Big-Stick Media Hits the Twede Excommunication Story--New York Times Weighs In*** . . .
absolutely


Dave the Atheist
" “'It has nothing to do with Romney,' Mr. Gordon said. 'I know members very high up in the Church who are voting for Obama.' "
I'll bet that he knows some black mormons also.

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"