Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>Anon for This Dec. 2013</p>\n<p>The recent article on the reversal of the ban of those \"cursed with dark skin\" (black) makes me literally shake.</p>\n<p>Five years ago we adopted a little girl with dark skin. The adoption agency (not LDS Social Services) contacted us, letting us know that The Ensign was looking for a family to model for an article on adoption they were printing and that they had given them our number.</p>\n<p>We fit the requirements of the \"kind of family\" they were looking for--until they saw our picture. Gently we were told that The Ensign doesn\'t use families of mixed race. \"But you and your children are beautiful, please send us single shots for possible future use.\"</p>\n<p>But yeah, now interracial marriages are okay--forget all that spilling of blood jazz from Brigham and the others.</p>\n<p>Our daughter\'s adoption created a big stir in our extended family. Concern about her bloodline and her first estate causing her to be born into a less righteous race. But, at least she wasn\'t \"black\".</p>\n<p>Years ago we had planned on adopting an African-American child. We didn\'t largely because of the comments made by family. By family I primarily, but not exclusively, mean my father-in-law who is very connected with the Brethren and has held several high level positions in the church. We were told that the spirits of black people were not valiant. We were told that the reason blacks were given the priesthood was because white people weren\'t creating enough tabernacles for male spirit children, so they had to give the black man the priesthood. The comments went on and on. We were lead to quotations and talks given by church leaders and advised to ponder, fast and pray with all soberness, because if we adopted a black child we would be bringing this less than valiant blood into our family. Which may lead to our other children marrying less valiant races.</p>\n<p>When we adopted our child, some of the family didn\'t want to touch her. It wasn\'t said. No one turned down holding her, but few asked...and it was an obvious chore as witnessed by their body language and quick handoffs. When she was sealed to us, we were told that now her blood would literally be the same as ours. This seemed to make others in the family feel better about her being in the family. (To be fair, my father-in-law has been loving beyond all others. A big surprise.)</p>\n<p>So now the church says it isn\'t racist. I don\'t buy it. I am so tired of all the lies to attempt to create a positive PR spin. But those of us who have been on the inside know differently. We have sat in on the quiet discussions said in whispering voices, not even said to the general public within he church--because not even the average TBM could stomach the depth of the racism.</p>\n<p>Look for a mixed family in The Ensign. Find me ONE. I know there are PR adds out there trying to make Mormons appear to accept mixed race families...but find me ONE picture in The Ensign representing this as a positive choice.</p>\n<p>Yes, yes...follow the prophet. He\'ll die before he leads you astray. Give your money to the Corporation of the President, but don\'t ask to see the books. Plug your ears, close your eyes. Speaking of plug, plug your nose. That sweet, nauseating stench of throw-up is everywhere. Maybe they can throw some bubblegum smelling deodorizer on it.</p>\n<hr />\nnotamormon<br />\nRe: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!<br />\nWow. I know that there is racism everywhere and even in other religious people.\n<p>But I don\'t think most churches teach racism.</p>\n<p>And I sure am glad since I have every race except Asian in my family. lol</p>\n<hr />\nanybody<br />\nThank you for this<br />\nI\'ve told this story before but it\'s probably new to you. I met a not very religious self professed Jack Mormon guy after I graduated from college. We dated for about six months and he asked me to marry him. I\'m biracial. His immediate family was very nice to me but his extended TBM family freaked out. He had a Jerry Springer style screaming argument with them and they pressured him to call it off.\n<p>People think that Mormons aren\'t racist in the twenty-first century. Your story lets people know they still are -- no matter what the leadership says.</p>\n<hr />\nAnon for This<br />\nRe: Thank you for this<br />\nYour welcome, anybody. I\'m so sorry this happened to you. I can\'t even imagine how that must have hurt. :/\n<p>I find myself wondering how my father-in-law, and others such as him, are taking this news. I tend to believe that they consider this article to be an example of that holy, higher choice of \"lying for the Lord\". That the population, even the general population within the church, can\'t handle the \"meat\", so \"milk\" must be given to keep the organism growing (or save it from dying). Remember when GBH lied on Larry King? All I heard was how wise he was, how well he \"handled\" the media, how it was okay that he lied about our belief that we can become as God--because it would have been worse for him to cast pearls before swine.</p>\n<p>It is one thing to publicly make a declaration for the masses. It is a whole other thing to truly believe that equality is the higher law--instead of the lower, secret one that the masses must be kept unaware of.</p>\n<hr />\nHeartless<br />\nRe: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!<br />\nMy family was wary of my wife because if her darker skin. Every ward we lived in was stand offish as well until.... it came out she was Lamanite and then it was total acceptance.\n<hr />\n<p>anybody<br />\nIt leaves a hole in you that can never be filled&nbsp;</p>\n<hr />\n<p>anybody<br />\nFunny how that works<br />\nExcept for people from the Dakotas or Wyoming folks don\'t seem to have a problem admitting they have some Native American ancestry. On the other hand, I\'ve never heard people admit they have any African American ancestry...</p>\n<hr />\nnewcomer<br />\nRe: Thank you for this<br />\nWhat are you biracial with? LDS people I know have some tolerance for Asians.\n<hr />.\n<p>notamoinaz<br />\nRe: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!<br />\nA few yrs ago, my husband and I adopted my bi-racial (black/white) grandson. My husband\'s ex-wife, with whom he has a son, sent us an email when she found out about the adoption which said, \"What consideration did you give to (our son) when you adopted that black boy named (son\'s name)? I assume he must be the illegitimate son of your wife.\" Nice, eh? Meanwhile, the two boys see each other during visitation by my stepson. They are 13 months apart in age and have a blast. She hates that \"her\" son and our son are brothers and love each other.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>baura<br />\nRe: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!<br />\nover 70 years ago my TBM father proposed to my mother.</p>\n<p>His TBM uncle was disturbed because my Mother was of Italian<br />\nethnicity. He said to my father, \"Think of the children, think<br />\nof the blood.\"</p>\n<p>That\'s the way people used to think back then. What Mormonism<br />\ndoes is make old-fogy-isms into church practices, if not<br />\ndoctrine, because the Church is lead by old fogies who are<br />\nconsidered inerrant.</p>\n<p>That\'s why it took a supposed \"revelation\" for the Church to do<br />\nwhat it should have done (from society\'s point of view) a lot<br />\nearlier. It\'s another example of the Church being behind the<br />\ncurve on moral issues. The Church learns morality from \"the<br />\nworld.\"</p>\n<hr />\n<p>baura<br />\nRe: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!<br />\nAnd, of course, I\'m sure your son and \"her\" son are not even<br />\naware of \"race.\"</p>\n<hr />\n<p>enoughenoch19<br />\nRe: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!</p>\n<p>I literally want to vomit......am I alone on this or is anyone shocked that any human being could take this racial crap seriously? Blood that is less valiant? WTF does that mean? Blacks have to have priesthood because there are not enough white spirits?</p>\n<p>Spirts have skin colors now? Well it doesn\'t exactly say that but furnishing a certain body colored tabernacle? Not enough white tabernacles?<br />\nThe more crap I read like this and other stuff, the more I see why the producers of South Park used the word DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB so much on their Joey episode. This is insane.</p>\n<p>I told my cousin (who is a TBM but is not a fanatic and is somewhat openminded) that Breedum Young was a serious racist. SHe had not heard that. She was surprised about it. It is certainly supposed to be a secret among TBMs. My cousin\'s son is married to a black woman. YES they are Mormons too, TEMPLE Mormons. The children are adorable. I suppose they could someday be in the Ensign but who the Hell reads that crap?<br />\nPlease take your entire family (adopted or not apodted) and get them all out of TSCC ASAP. This is complete poison that is being preached, always has been.</p>\n<p>What the HELL is a first estate? Is it as important as the \"first vision?\" - in other words something that is best forgotten. Is this first estate a TBM thing? I\'ve never heard of it.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>breedumyung<br />\nRe: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!<br />\nIn 1966, my TBM RM brother married a Latina (Lamanite) who barely spoke english. Brother went on a mission to Central America and spoke fluent Spanish...</p>\n<p>Anyway, our TBM Dad went ballistic! He warned my TBM brother that the bloodlines would be tainted etc.</p>\n<p>Short story long; my TBM brother and his Lamanite have 5 children now. One of the daughters married a BLACK MAN.</p>\n<p>Hehehe...</p>\n<hr />\n<p>cludgie<br />\nRe: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!<br />\nI guess we should all praise Gawd for updating her valiant status. I guess it\'s always good to be more valiant. But I\'ve never known a god to change as much as Mormon Gawd.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Anon for This<br />\nRe: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!<br />\nLol! I love your post. :)</p>\n<p>The first estate is the preexistence. We get to be born in the United States...to a white family...and a MORMON covenanted family (with a father who holds the priesthood) if we are reeeeaaaalllllyyyy obedient and valiant in our pre-earth life. I don\'t think our spirits are white, but we are just more valiant if, when we get our bodies, we\'re blonde and blue-eyed. Didn\'t you know this? Ahem...also, if we\'re from pioneer stock, especially the royal lines, we have a purer bloodline. Much more valiant. (Excuse me while I barf.)</p>\n<p>Never heard of this? I could tell you so many fun little tidbits. Of course, they are already probably written about on here.</p>\n<p>Ya\'ll thanks for letting me vent...and for wanting to throw-up with me. And thanks for the advice. I wish...wow do I wish I could get out.</p>\n<hr />\nAnon for This<br />\nRe: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!<br />\nYeah...I love how God is created in our image, with all our bigotry and socially motivated ideals. Crazy how much He wants to be popular with us little mortals.\n<hr />\n<p>Anon for This<br />\nRe: It leaves a hole in you that can never be filled<br />\nI\'m so sorry. You are welcome in my home anytime. xo</p>\n<hr />\nNeverMo in CA<br />\nRe: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!<br />\nbaura Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------\n<p>When my dad\'s father met my mom (who is Italian and Latina) the first time, he showed her a magazine photo he\'d been saving of a scene from an Italian film. It showed a fiery, raven-haired Italian actress threating her husband with a frying pan.</p>\n<p>My grandfather then told her something like, \"My son needs an Italian woman to keep him in line!\" (Yes, he sincerely meant this as a compliment!) :-)</p>\n<hr />\n<p>fluhist<br />\nRe: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!<br />\nI am adding my apologies to all those who have suffered racism, whatever the source, but ESPECIALLY in tscc. How AWFUL, and I am SO sorry. Of course it leaves shocking emotional scars, and I SO wish there was more I could do for you than to apologise, it is such a HUGE thing.</p>\n<p>I work with people of Aboriginal descent here in Australia, and I know the level of racism that some of them feel. Racism is now illegal in Australia, but can still be seen entrenched in some organisations and of course in the little side comments made by ignorant people. Research has shown that racism has a shocking affect on the physical health of people, (heart problems being a biggie) and that is before we even get to the emotional affects. I have seen the anger when people make ignorant comments to my students, but I will say that once they feel re-empowered, they move forward, and I am very proud of them for that.</p>\n<p>All I can ask of those of you who have been so TERRIBLY hurt by racism, is PLEASE know that there are more people supporting you than think that way, and PLEASE know that you are wonderful in every way.</p>\n<p>I want you to know that I am ashamed of the heritage of my people who were racist, and am proud to be a very small cog in a huge wheel, that I see as helping to re-empower people so hurt.</p>\n<p>&lt;&lt;\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1493514608, expire = 1493601008, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:3d466a2abe9e57c3b0b237d802a09b6d' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

Anon for This Dec. 2013

The recent article on the reversal of the ban of those "cursed with dark skin" (black) makes me literally shake.

Five years ago we adopted a little girl with dark skin. The adoption agency (not LDS Social Services) contacted us, letting us know that The Ensign was looking for a family to model for an article on adoption they were printing and that they had given them our number.

We fit the requirements of the "kind of family" they were looking for--until they saw our picture. Gently we were told that The Ensign doesn't use families of mixed race. "But you and your children are beautiful, please send us single shots for possible future use."

But yeah, now interracial marriages are okay--forget all that spilling of blood jazz from Brigham and the others.

Our daughter's adoption created a big stir in our extended family. Concern about her bloodline and her first estate causing her to be born into a less righteous race. But, at least she wasn't "black".

Years ago we had planned on adopting an African-American child. We didn't largely because of the comments made by family. By family I primarily, but not exclusively, mean my father-in-law who is very connected with the Brethren and has held several high level positions in the church. We were told that the spirits of black people were not valiant. We were told that the reason blacks were given the priesthood was because white people weren't creating enough tabernacles for male spirit children, so they had to give the black man the priesthood. The comments went on and on. We were lead to quotations and talks given by church leaders and advised to ponder, fast and pray with all soberness, because if we adopted a black child we would be bringing this less than valiant blood into our family. Which may lead to our other children marrying less valiant races.

When we adopted our child, some of the family didn't want to touch her. It wasn't said. No one turned down holding her, but few asked...and it was an obvious chore as witnessed by their body language and quick handoffs. When she was sealed to us, we were told that now her blood would literally be the same as ours. This seemed to make others in the family feel better about her being in the family. (To be fair, my father-in-law has been loving beyond all others. A big surprise.)

So now the church says it isn't racist. I don't buy it. I am so tired of all the lies to attempt to create a positive PR spin. But those of us who have been on the inside know differently. We have sat in on the quiet discussions said in whispering voices, not even said to the general public within he church--because not even the average TBM could stomach the depth of the racism.

Look for a mixed family in The Ensign. Find me ONE. I know there are PR adds out there trying to make Mormons appear to accept mixed race families...but find me ONE picture in The Ensign representing this as a positive choice.

Yes, yes...follow the prophet. He'll die before he leads you astray. Give your money to the Corporation of the President, but don't ask to see the books. Plug your ears, close your eyes. Speaking of plug, plug your nose. That sweet, nauseating stench of throw-up is everywhere. Maybe they can throw some bubblegum smelling deodorizer on it.


notamormon
Re: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!
Wow. I know that there is racism everywhere and even in other religious people.

But I don't think most churches teach racism.

And I sure am glad since I have every race except Asian in my family. lol


anybody
Thank you for this
I've told this story before but it's probably new to you. I met a not very religious self professed Jack Mormon guy after I graduated from college. We dated for about six months and he asked me to marry him. I'm biracial. His immediate family was very nice to me but his extended TBM family freaked out. He had a Jerry Springer style screaming argument with them and they pressured him to call it off.

People think that Mormons aren't racist in the twenty-first century. Your story lets people know they still are -- no matter what the leadership says.


Anon for This
Re: Thank you for this
Your welcome, anybody. I'm so sorry this happened to you. I can't even imagine how that must have hurt. :/

I find myself wondering how my father-in-law, and others such as him, are taking this news. I tend to believe that they consider this article to be an example of that holy, higher choice of "lying for the Lord". That the population, even the general population within the church, can't handle the "meat", so "milk" must be given to keep the organism growing (or save it from dying). Remember when GBH lied on Larry King? All I heard was how wise he was, how well he "handled" the media, how it was okay that he lied about our belief that we can become as God--because it would have been worse for him to cast pearls before swine.

It is one thing to publicly make a declaration for the masses. It is a whole other thing to truly believe that equality is the higher law--instead of the lower, secret one that the masses must be kept unaware of.


Heartless
Re: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!
My family was wary of my wife because if her darker skin. Every ward we lived in was stand offish as well until.... it came out she was Lamanite and then it was total acceptance.

anybody
It leaves a hole in you that can never be filled 


anybody
Funny how that works
Except for people from the Dakotas or Wyoming folks don't seem to have a problem admitting they have some Native American ancestry. On the other hand, I've never heard people admit they have any African American ancestry...


newcomer
Re: Thank you for this
What are you biracial with? LDS people I know have some tolerance for Asians.
.

notamoinaz
Re: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!
A few yrs ago, my husband and I adopted my bi-racial (black/white) grandson. My husband's ex-wife, with whom he has a son, sent us an email when she found out about the adoption which said, "What consideration did you give to (our son) when you adopted that black boy named (son's name)? I assume he must be the illegitimate son of your wife." Nice, eh? Meanwhile, the two boys see each other during visitation by my stepson. They are 13 months apart in age and have a blast. She hates that "her" son and our son are brothers and love each other.


baura
Re: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!
over 70 years ago my TBM father proposed to my mother.

His TBM uncle was disturbed because my Mother was of Italian
ethnicity. He said to my father, "Think of the children, think
of the blood."

That's the way people used to think back then. What Mormonism
does is make old-fogy-isms into church practices, if not
doctrine, because the Church is lead by old fogies who are
considered inerrant.

That's why it took a supposed "revelation" for the Church to do
what it should have done (from society's point of view) a lot
earlier. It's another example of the Church being behind the
curve on moral issues. The Church learns morality from "the
world."


baura
Re: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!
And, of course, I'm sure your son and "her" son are not even
aware of "race."


enoughenoch19
Re: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!

I literally want to vomit......am I alone on this or is anyone shocked that any human being could take this racial crap seriously? Blood that is less valiant? WTF does that mean? Blacks have to have priesthood because there are not enough white spirits?

Spirts have skin colors now? Well it doesn't exactly say that but furnishing a certain body colored tabernacle? Not enough white tabernacles?
The more crap I read like this and other stuff, the more I see why the producers of South Park used the word DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB so much on their Joey episode. This is insane.

I told my cousin (who is a TBM but is not a fanatic and is somewhat openminded) that Breedum Young was a serious racist. SHe had not heard that. She was surprised about it. It is certainly supposed to be a secret among TBMs. My cousin's son is married to a black woman. YES they are Mormons too, TEMPLE Mormons. The children are adorable. I suppose they could someday be in the Ensign but who the Hell reads that crap?
Please take your entire family (adopted or not apodted) and get them all out of TSCC ASAP. This is complete poison that is being preached, always has been.

What the HELL is a first estate? Is it as important as the "first vision?" - in other words something that is best forgotten. Is this first estate a TBM thing? I've never heard of it.


breedumyung
Re: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!
In 1966, my TBM RM brother married a Latina (Lamanite) who barely spoke english. Brother went on a mission to Central America and spoke fluent Spanish...

Anyway, our TBM Dad went ballistic! He warned my TBM brother that the bloodlines would be tainted etc.

Short story long; my TBM brother and his Lamanite have 5 children now. One of the daughters married a BLACK MAN.

Hehehe...


cludgie
Re: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!
I guess we should all praise Gawd for updating her valiant status. I guess it's always good to be more valiant. But I've never known a god to change as much as Mormon Gawd.


Anon for This
Re: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!
Lol! I love your post. :)

The first estate is the preexistence. We get to be born in the United States...to a white family...and a MORMON covenanted family (with a father who holds the priesthood) if we are reeeeaaaalllllyyyy obedient and valiant in our pre-earth life. I don't think our spirits are white, but we are just more valiant if, when we get our bodies, we're blonde and blue-eyed. Didn't you know this? Ahem...also, if we're from pioneer stock, especially the royal lines, we have a purer bloodline. Much more valiant. (Excuse me while I barf.)

Never heard of this? I could tell you so many fun little tidbits. Of course, they are already probably written about on here.

Ya'll thanks for letting me vent...and for wanting to throw-up with me. And thanks for the advice. I wish...wow do I wish I could get out.


Anon for This
Re: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!
Yeah...I love how God is created in our image, with all our bigotry and socially motivated ideals. Crazy how much He wants to be popular with us little mortals.

Anon for This
Re: It leaves a hole in you that can never be filled
I'm so sorry. You are welcome in my home anytime. xo


NeverMo in CA
Re: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!
baura Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

When my dad's father met my mom (who is Italian and Latina) the first time, he showed her a magazine photo he'd been saving of a scene from an Italian film. It showed a fiery, raven-haired Italian actress threating her husband with a frying pan.

My grandfather then told her something like, "My son needs an Italian woman to keep him in line!" (Yes, he sincerely meant this as a compliment!) :-)


fluhist
Re: Whew! Less Valiant Daughter is now VALIANT!
I am adding my apologies to all those who have suffered racism, whatever the source, but ESPECIALLY in tscc. How AWFUL, and I am SO sorry. Of course it leaves shocking emotional scars, and I SO wish there was more I could do for you than to apologise, it is such a HUGE thing.

I work with people of Aboriginal descent here in Australia, and I know the level of racism that some of them feel. Racism is now illegal in Australia, but can still be seen entrenched in some organisations and of course in the little side comments made by ignorant people. Research has shown that racism has a shocking affect on the physical health of people, (heart problems being a biggie) and that is before we even get to the emotional affects. I have seen the anger when people make ignorant comments to my students, but I will say that once they feel re-empowered, they move forward, and I am very proud of them for that.

All I can ask of those of you who have been so TERRIBLY hurt by racism, is PLEASE know that there are more people supporting you than think that way, and PLEASE know that you are wonderful in every way.

I want you to know that I am ashamed of the heritage of my people who were racist, and am proud to be a very small cog in a huge wheel, that I see as helping to re-empower people so hurt.

<<"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"