Lamanites Lamanites Everywhere but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>steve benson Oct. 2012</p>\n<p>--Identifying from Whom the Lamanites Originally Descended</p>\n<p>Thus Spake the Prophet Joseph Smith:</p>\n<p>\"When I was about 17 years old I saw another vision of angels in the night season after I had retired to bed I had not been asleep . . . [</p>\n<p>\"[A]ll at once the room was illuminated above the brightness of the sun an angel appeared before me . . .</p>\n<p>\"[H]e said unto me, \'I am a messenger sent from God, be faithful and keep his commandments in all things.\'</p>\n<p>\"[H]e told me of a sacred record which was written on plates of gold. I saw in the vision the place where they were deposited.</p>\n<p>\"[H]E SAID THE INDIANS WERE THE LITERAL DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM.\"</p>\n<p>(\"The Papers of Joseph Smith,\" Vol. 2, \"Journal, 1832-1842,\" edited by Dean C. Jessee, Deseret Book Company, Salt Lake City, copyright 1992, Corporation of the President, pp. 69-70), emphasis added)</p>\n<p>Thus Spake the Book of Mormon:</p>\n<p>\"And then shall the remnant of our seed know concerning us, how that we came out from Jerusalem, and that THEY ARE THE DESCENDAN TS OF THE JEWS.\"</p>\n<p>(Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 30:4, emphasis added)<br />\n_____</p>\n<p>--Identifying Who the Lamanites Are Today</p>\n<p>Thus Spake President Spencer W. Kimball:</p>\n<p>\"The term \'Lamanite\' includes all Indians and Indian mixtures, such as the Polynesians, the Guatemalans, the Peruvians, as well as the Sioux, the Apache, the Mohawk, the Navajo, and others. IT IS A LARGE GROUP of great people.\"</p>\n<p>(Spencer W. Kimball, \"Of Royal Blood,\" in \"Ensign,\" July 1971, p. 7), emphasis added)<br />\n_____</p>\n<p>--Determining Where Scads of Lamanites Are Presently Living</p>\n<p>Thus Spake Boyd K. Packer, Senior Apostle over Lamanite Affairs:</p>\n<p>\"THERE ARE MORE THAN 60,000,000 PEOPLE OF LAMANITE EXTRACTION. It is no accident that the Church now prospers among them in Mexico, Central and South America, in the islands of the sea, and among the Indian tribes of North America.\"</p>\n<p>(\"President Spencer W. Kimball: No Ordinary Man,\" in \"Ensign,\" March 1974, pp. 3ff), emphasis added)</p>\n<p>\"In contrast to the relatively few in North America who could claim Lamanite lineage (1,300,000), Packer pointed to the many millions in Mexico, Yucatan, Guatemala, and throughout South America: \'In all . .. . THERE ARE 75,600,000 WHO SHARE IN YOUR [NATIVE AMERICAN LAMANITE] BIRTHRIGHT, OF WHOM 31,990,000 ARE PURE INDIANS.\'\"</p>\n<p>(Boyd K. Packer, address given during proceedings of the annual Indian Week at BYU, cited by Armand L. Mauss, \"All Abraham\'s Children,\" p. 96), emphasis added)<br />\n_____</p>\n<p>Determining from the Mormon Church the Present Location of Jewish DNA Among All These Readily-Available Lamanites.</p>\n<p>Thus spake, well, ummm, from the posting headlined, \"DNA and Book of Mormon\" . . .</p>\n<p>\"There has been no \'official\' response from the Mormon Church regarding the DNA research, Native Americans and the implications for the Book of Mormon, other than the statement posted on the Mormon.org website under the heading \'Mistakes in the News\' which states:</p>\n<p>\"\'DNA and the Book of Mormon Various media outlets, 11 November 2003\'</p>\n<p>\"\'The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ is exactly what it claims to be - a record of God\'s dealings with peoples of ancient America and a second witness of the divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ.</p>\n<p>\"\'The strongest witness of the Book of Mormon is to be obtained by living the Christ-centered principles contained in its pages and by praying about its truthfulness.</p>\n<p>\"Recent attacks on the veracity of the Book of Mormon based on DNA evidence are ill considered.</p>\n<p>\"Nothing in the Book of Mormon precludes migration into the Americas by peoples of Asiatic origin. The scientific issues relating to DNA, however, are numerous and complex. . . . \'\"</p>\n<p><a href=\"http://www.tungate.com/murphy.htm\" title=\"http://www.tungate.com/murphy.htm\">http://www.tungate.com/murphy.htm</a></p>\n<p>*****</p>\n<p>For an examination of the corner into which the Mormon Church itself and modern genetic science have painted the absurd LDS position on the subject of Lamanite DNA, see \"Lamanites No More: DNA and Lost Ties to Father Lehi,\" at:</p>\n<p><a href=\"http://mit.irr.org/lamanites-no-more-dna-and-lost-ties-father-lehi\" title=\"http://mit.irr.org/lamanites-no-more-dna-and-lost-ties-father-lehi\">http://mit.irr.org/lamanites-no-more-dna-and-lost-ties-father-lehi</a><br />\n_____</p>\n<p>For the Mormon Church\'s established (and thoroughly discredited) doctrinal teachings on the alleged genetic identity of the Lamanites, below is RfM poster \"Deconstructor\'s\" article entitled, \"Who Are The Lamanites?\" (17 February 2006, emphasis added):</p>\n<p>\"The Lord declares it in the Doctrine and Covenants scriptures:</p>\n<p>\"D&amp;C 3:18-20--</p>\n<p>\"18 \'And this testimony [The Book of Mormon] shall come to the knowledge of the Lamanites, and the Lemuelites, and the Ishmaelites, who dwindled in unbelief because of the iniquity of their fathers, whom the Lord has suffered to destroy their brethren the Nephites, because of their iniquities and their abominations.</p>\n<p>\"19 \'And for this very purpose are these plates preserved, which contain these records—that the promises of the Lord might be fulfilled, which he made to his people;</p>\n<p>\"20 \'And that the Lamanites might come to the knowledge of their fathers, and that they might know the promises of the Lord, and that they may believe the gospel and rely upon the merits of Jesus Christ, and be glorified through faith in his name, and that through their repentance they might be saved. Amen.\'</p>\n<p>\"For the record, the LDS Church has consistently and emphatically declared that Lamanites exist today, and who they are:</p>\n<p>\"The Doctrine and Covenants</p>\n<p>\"Modern Church apologists want to pretend that the Church doesn\'t know who Lamanites are. They should be embarassed to say such lies to the press, when the record is so glaringly clear on this matter.</p>\n<p>\"D&amp;C 28:8--\'And now, behold, I say unto you that you shall go unto the Lamanites and preach my gospel unto them; and inasmuch as they receive thy teachings thou shalt cause my church to be established among them; and thou shalt have revelations, but write them not by way of commandment.</p>\n<p>\"D&amp;C 28:9--\'And now, behold, I say unto you that it is not revealed, and no man knoweth where the city Zion shall be built, but it shall be given hereafter. Behold, I say unto you that it shall be on the borders by the Lamanites.\'</p>\n<p>D&amp;C 28:14--\'And thou shalt assist to settle all these things, according to the covenants of the church, before thou shalt take thy journey among the Lamanites.\'</p>\n<p>\"D&amp;C 30:6--\'And be you afflicted in all his afflictions, ever lifting up your heart unto me in prayer and faith, for his and your deliverance; for I have given unto him power to build up my church among the Lamanites;\'</p>\n<p>\"D&amp;C 32:2--\'And that which I have appointed unto him is that he shall go with my servants, Oliver Cowdery and Peter Whitmer, Jun., into the wilderness among the Lamanites.\'</p>\n<p>\"D&amp;C 49:24--\'But before the great day of the Lord shall come, Jacob shall flourish in the wilderness, and the Lamanites shall blossom as the rose.\'</p>\n<p>\"D&amp;C 54:8--\'And thus you shall take your journey into the regions westward, unto the land of Missouri, unto the borders of the Lamanites.\'</p>\n<p>\"\'Not until the revelations of Joseph Smith, bringing forth the Book of Mormon, did any one know of these migrants. It was not known before, but now the question is fully answered. Now the Lamanites number about sixty million; they are in all of the states of America from Tierra del Fuego all the way up to Point Barrows, and they are in nearly all the islands of the sea from Hawaii south to southern New Zealand. The Church is deeply interested in all Lamanites because of these revelations and because of this great Book of Mormon, their history that was written on plates of gold and deposited in the hill.</p>\n<p>\"The translation by the Prophet Joseph Smith revealed a running history for 1,000 years--600 years before Christ until four hundred after Christ--a history of these great people who occupied this land for that 1,000 years. Then for the next 1,400 years, they lost much of their high culture. The descendants of this mighty people were called Indians by Columbus in 1492 when he found them here.\'</p>\n<p>(Spencer W. Kimball, \"Of Royal Blood,\" in \"Ensign,\" July 1971, 7 (In the \"Special Lamanite Section\")</p>\n<p>\"Before 1978 the Book of Mormon used the term \'white and delightsome\' to show how great white people were. In 1978 when the Church changed theier stance on Blacks, they changed the word \'white\' to \'pure.\' It’s in 2 Nephi 30:6, but that was only a window dressing,</p>\n<p>\"The Church left these:</p>\n<p>\"1 Nephi 12:23--\'And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.\'</p>\n<p>\"1 Nephi 13:15--\'And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles, and they did prosper and obtain the land for their inheritance; and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people before they were slain.\'</p>\n<p>\"2 Nephi 5:21--\'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.\'</p>\n<p>\"Jacob 3:8--\'O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought with them before the throne of God.\'</p>\n<p>\"Alma 3:6--\'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.\'</p>\n<p>\"3 Nephi 2:15--\'And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites;\'</p>\n<p>\"Mormon 5:15--\'And also that the seed of this people may more fully believe his gospel, which shall go forth unto them from the Gentiles; for this people shall be scattered, and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us, yea, even that which hath been among the Lamanites, and this because of their unbelief and idolatry.\'</p>\n<p>\"What Is The OFFICIAL Church Doctrine re: Ancestral Origins of North American Indians??</p>\n<p>\"GOD\'s POSITION (to Joseph Smith, via the DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS):</p>\n<p>\"Well, the Lord makes it clear to Joseph Smith in D&amp;C 3:18-20:</p>\n<p>\"18--\'And this testimony [the BoM] shall come to the knowledge of the Lamanites, and the Lemuelites, and the Ishmaelites, who dwindled in unbelief because of the iniquity of their fathers, whom the Lord has suffered to destroy their brethren the Nephites, because of their iniquities and their abominations.</p>\n<p>\"19--\'And for this very purpose are these plates preserved, which contain these records—that the promises of the Lord might be fulfilled, which he made to his epeople;</p>\n<p>\"20--\'And that the Lamanites might come to the knowledge of their fathers, and that they might know the promises of the Lord, and that they may believe the gospel and rely upon the merits of Jesus Christ, and be glorified through faith in his name, and that through their repentance they might be saved. Amen.\'</p>\n<p>\"So, dear TBMs, if the indigenous peoples of the New World were Lamanites in 1828, when Section 3 was \'revealed,\' and if they were Lamanites when I was assigned to work among them on my mission in the early 1970s, then they\'re still Lamanites today and the folks at FARMS are making up bullshit excuses.</p>\n<p>\"D&amp;C 32:2--\'And that which I have appointed unto him is that he shall go with my servants, Oliver Cowdery and Peter Whitmer, Jun., into the wilderness among the Lamanites.</p>\n<p>\"D&amp;C 49:24--\'But before the great day of the Lord shall come, Jacob shall flourish in the wilderness, and the Lamanites shall blossom as the rose.</p>\n<p>\"D&amp;C 54:8--\'And thus you shall take your journey into the regions westward, unto the land of Missouri, unto the borders of the Lamanites.\'</p>\n<p>How could they go among the Lamanites if the Lamanites were gone? How could they establish a church of nonexistent people? How could the Lamanites blossom as a rose if they had already died off?</p>\n<p>D&amp;C 10:48; D&amp;C 19:27; D&amp;C 28:8-9,14; D&amp;C 30:6; D&amp;C 57:4 (See also the heading info, which provides contextual expansion). D&amp;C 101:70-71; D&amp;C 109:65-66).</p>\n<p>\"BOOK OF MORMON:</p>\n<p>\"1) The Introduction to the Book of Mormon that the Lamanites, the last surviving Book of Mormon people, are \"the principal ancestors of the American Indians.\' The intro also says \'Written to the Lamanites, who are a remnant of the house of Israel.\'</p>\n<p>\"Furthermore, Moroni mentions several times he\'s writing to the Lamanites.</p>\n<p>\"If the Lamanites wouldn\'t survive until the coming forth of the BoM--as Moroni should have known, since he was a righteous prophet--then why address his remarks to them? Maybe he didn\'t know, huh?</p>\n<p>\"2) The Jaredites came \'into that quarter where there never had man been.\' (Ether 2:5) The Nephites likewise came to a land \'kept from all other nations.\'</p>\n<p>(2 Nephi 1:9-11)</p>\n<p>\"3) The footnotes of the editions of the Book of Mormon from 1876-1921 indicate Lehi &amp; company landed in Chile; the description of Helaman 3:8 is explicated in the [officially sanctioned] footnotes in editions of the Book of Mormon from 1880-1920: \'And it came to pass that they [the Nephites] did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land [g] southward to the land [h] northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea [i] south, to the sea [j] north, from the sea [k] west, to the sea [l] east.\'</p>\n<p>\"The footnotes provide the following identifications of these lands and bodies of water: \'[g], South America. [h], North America. [i], Atlantic, south of Cape Horn. [j], Arctic, north of North America. [k], Pacific. [l], Atlantic.\' These footnotes indicate the official Church interpretation of Helaman 3:8 was that the Lamanites/Nephites covered BOTH continents of the entire western hemisphere.</p>\n<p>\"THE \'PROPHET\' JOSEPH SMITH:</p>\n<p>\"1) Joseph Smith described the Book of Mormon as \'the history of ancient America . . .\'</p>\n<p>\"2) In 1833 Joseph Smith wrote to Rochester, New York, newspaper editor N. C. Saxton that \'[t]he Book of Mormon is a record of the forefathers of our western Tribes of Indians . . . By it we learn that our western tribes of Indians are descendants from that Joseph that was sold into Egypt . . . \'</p>\n<p>\"3) Joseph Smith wrote in the March 1, 1842 \'Times and Seasons\' that \'. . . the principal nation of the second race [i.e., the Nephites and Lamanites] fell in battle towards the close of the fourth century [A.D.]. The remnant are the Indians that now inhabit this country.\'</p>\n<p>\"4) In June 1834, Joseph Smith recounted the discovery of the skeleton of the now-notorious \'Zelph, the white Lamanite\' [sic] in a mound in Illinois, referring to \'the mounds which had been thrown up by the ancient inhabitants of this country - Nephites, Lamanites, etc., . . . [S]ubsequently the visions of the past being opened to my understanding by the Spirit of the Almighty; I discovered that the person whose skeleton was before us was a white Lamanite, a large thick-set man, and a man of God. His name was Zelph. He was a warrior and chieftain under the great prophet Onandagus, who was known from the Hill Cumorah, or eastern sea to the Rocky mountains . . . He was killed in battle by the arrow found among his ribs, during the last struggle of the Lamanites and Nephites.\'</p>\n<p>(B. H. Roberts, \"Documentary History of the Church,\" II:79-80; \"Manuscript History of the Church,\" Book A-1:482-83, LDS Church Archives, Salt Lake City, Utah)</p>\n<p>\"OTHER OFFICIAL SOURCES:</p>\n<p>\"1) In the book \'Gospel Principles\'--the Church\'s own official handbook of basic doctrine: \'The Lamanites Will Become a Great People\'--The Lord said that when his coming was near, the Lamanites would become a righteous and respected people. He said, \'Before the great day of the Lord shall come, . . . the Lamanites shall blossom as the rose\' (D&amp;C 49:24). Great numbers of Lamanites in North and South America and the South Pacific are now receiving the blessings of the gospel.\'</p>\n<p>\"2) Prophet-to-be Joseph Fielding Smith, while an Apostle in the Quorum of the Twelve (and official Church historian), published: \'Within recent years there has arisen among certain students of the Book of Mormon a theory to the effect that within the period covered by the Book of Mormon, the Nephites and Lamanites were confined almost within the borders of the territory comprising Central America and the southern portion of Mexico; the Isthmus of Tehuantepec probably being the \"narrow neck\" of land spoken of in the Book of Mormon rather than the Isthmus of Panama . . .This modernistic theory of necessity, in order to be consistent, must place the waters of Ripliancum and the Hill Cumorah some place within the restricted territory of Central America, notwithstanding the teachings of the Church to the contrary for upwards of 100 years . . . In the light of revelation it is absurd for anyone to maintain that the Nephites and Lamanites did not possess this northern land . . . In the face of this evidence coming from the Prophet Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer, we cannot say that the Nephites and Lamanites did not possess the territory of the United States and that the Hill Cumorah is in Central America.\'</p>\n<p>(\"The Deseret News,\" in \"Church Section,\" Feb. 27, 1954, pp. 2-3)</p>\n<p>\"3) In General Conference, 1960 (and the ensuing published official \'Conference Reports\'), Spencer W. Kimball said: \'I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today. . . . The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, 15 of the 20 were as light as Anglos, five were darker but equally delightsome The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation. At one meeting a father and mother and their 16-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl--16--sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents--on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather. . . .These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.\' [NOTE: the Navajo/Dine is among the most obviously Asian of all Native American tribes, in terms of their DNA, linguistics, orhtodonty, cranial shape, etc.]</p>\n<p>\"\'(We believe). . . . \'That the existing Indian tribes are all direct descendants of Lehi and his company, and that therefore they have sprung from men all of whom were of the house of Israel.\'</p>\n<p>(James E. Talmage, \"The Articles of Faith,\" p. 293)</p>\n<p>\"\'When Columbus discovered America, the native inhabitants, the American Indians as they were soon to be designated, were a people of mixed blood and origin. Chiefly, they were Lamanites, but such remnants of the Nephite nation as had not been destroyed had, of course, mingled with the Lamanites. Thus, the Indians were Jews by nationality. . . . [since then] there has been [a]. . . dilution of the pure Lamanitish blood. . . . But with it all, the great majority are the descendants of the original inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere, the dominant blood lineage is that of Israel. The Indians are repeatedly called Lamanites in the revelations to. . . . become again a white and delightsome people as were their ancestors a great many generations ago.\'</p>\n<p>(Bruce R. McConkie, \"Mormon Doctrine,\" 2nd ed., 1966, pp. 32-33.</p>\n<p>\"\'. . . [T]hat the Book of Mormon is about the only historical document we have at the present time of this great western world? . . . . It tells, briefly, it is true, a story that at once could be accepted by scientists, philologists and all other men who would investigate it. Every year brings to our knowledge something that corroborates that book as a true historical document.\'</p>\n<p>(Andrew Jensen, \"Conference Report,\" October 1907, p. 96)</p>\n<p>\"\'Here (holding the Book of Mormon in his hand) we present a record of this American continent, a history of a branch of the tribe of Joseph, for nearly 600 years before Christ, and until 420 years after Christ, a history of the Lord\'s dealings with them from the time they left Jerusalem until one of their principal nations fell in battle, because of their apostacy; and the descendants of the remaining remnant are this degenerated people we call Indians, who still exist . . . which afterwards became a \"multitude of nations,\" according to the blessing pronounced by the ancient patriarch Jacob, when [p. 174] blessing his two grandsons, Ephraim and Manasseh.\'</p>\n<p>(Orson Pratt, \"Journal of Discourses,\" Vol. 19, p. 173)</p>\n<p>\"\'We can pray to the Father, in the name of Jesus, to convert these Indian tribes around us . . . that they shall be instructed not only in relation to their fathers and the Gospel contained in the record of their fathers . . . because they are of the blood of Israel.\'</p>\n<p>(Orson Pratt, \"Journal of Discourses,\" 1875, Vol. 17, p. 301)</p>\n<p>\"\'. . . [T]he blood of Manasseh is found in the tribes and nations of the Indians of North and South America.\'</p>\n<p>(Hyrum G. Smith, \"Conference Report,\" April 1929, p. 123)</p>\n<p>\"\'And we have scarcely touched the Indian races. There is an immense field spreading out before the Elders of this Church in the redemption of these poor remnants of the house of Israel. . . . But here stretches out before us this immense continent on the south, peopled with descendants of the house of Israel.\'</p>\n<p>(George Q Cannon, \"Collected Discourses,\" Vol. 5, p. 269)</p>\n<p>\"\'These natives belong to the house of Israel. . . . The Lord has taken from this race any disposition for improvement even to this day; the best of them consider it a disgrace to work. Whatever drudgery is performed is done by their squaws, or by slaves captured from neighboring, tribes or bands. Ask any of them to work; the reply is, \"Me big Indian, me no work.\". . . It is prophesied by Nephi as follows: \"For after the book [Book of Mormon] of which I have spoken shall come forth, and be written unto the Gentiles, and sealed up again unto the Lord, there shall be many which shall believe the words which are written; and they shall carry them forth unto the remnant of our seed [the present American Indians.] And then shall the remnant of our seed know concerning us, how that we came out from Jerusalem, and that they are descendants of the Jews.\'</p>\n<p>(Brigham Young, \"Journal of Discourses,\" Vol. 10, p. 359)</p>\n<p>\"\'. . . to serve and to teach hundreds of the children of Father Lehi. One expression of appreciation from an Indian boy included these moving words: \"Before I took LDS seminary I didn\'t have very much to live for. . . . I had always felt that Indians could not do things as well as white people. Now I know that I am a child of God. I know that my people are of the house of Israel. . . .\'\"</p>\n<p>(Neal A. Maxwell, \"Conference Report,\" October 1970, p. 93)</p>\n<p>\"\'I have had the privilege of laboring among the true blood of Israel, through the loins of Joseph, through the two branches of the House of Israel--Ephraim and Manasseh--a people whom the Lord loves--a people whom the Lord chastens and forgives because of their great faith.\'</p>\n<p>(E. Wesley Smith, \"Conference Report,\" October 1950, p. 47)</p>\n<p>\"\'Here he [God] has the Indian or Lamanite, with a background of 25 centuries of superstition, degradation, idolatry and indolence. . . . I present to you a people who, according to prophecies, have been scattered and driven, defrauded and deprived, who are a \"branch of the tree of Israel--lost from its body--wanderers in a strange land\"--their own land. . . . I beg of you, do not disparage the Lamanite-Nephites . . . Do not scoff and ignore these Nephite-Lamanites . . . Do not prate your power of speech or your fearlessness unless you too could stand with the Prophet Samuel on the city wall, dodging stones and spears and arrows while trying to preach the gospel of salvation. The very descendants of this great prophet are with us. They may be Navajos or Cherokees. . . . Mayas or Pimas. . . . Piutes or Mohicans. . . . And in these living descendants . . . will be redeemed, will rise and will become a blessed people. God has said it.\'</p>\n<p>(Spencer W. Kimball, \"Conference Report,\" April 1954, pp. 106-08)</p>\n<p>\"\'In a sense I do not feel sorry for the Indian people because they are children of promise, belonging as they do to the house of Israel and are the posterity of Abraham, the father of the faithful, through whose lineage the Lord promised that all nations of the earth are to be blessed; therefore, they are a chosen race and people unto God, possessing a divine and royal heritage.\'</p>\n<p>(Delbert L. Stapley, \"Conference Report,\" April 1956, p. 56a)</p>\n<p>\"\'I presume that a majority of the brethren and sisters who are here this afternoon have read in the Book of Mormon the statement made by one of the writers, quoting the words of our Savior, in regard to the city of New Jerusalem, that the Gentiles should be called to assist the Lamanites, or the seed of the house of Israel, in the erection and building of that city. . . . I begin to see a little of the preparatory work that I think is going to fit and prepare the seed of Lehi, or the Lamanites, to perform this great and glorious work that has been predicted upon their heads. One of the ancient prophets predicted that kings and queens should be the nursing fathers and nursing mothers of the seed of Israel in the latter days; and I find that, in a sense, this is being fulfilled in the stake over which I preside. The government of the United States, which, I presume, may be classed with the kingdoms of the earth, is establishing schools, and there is one in our neighborhood that I desire to refer to briefly. It isupon the San Juan river, among the Navajo Indians, and is costing several hundreds of thousands of dollars.\'</p>\n<p>(Elder Walter C. Lyman, \"Conference Report,\" October 1907, p. 86)</p>\n<p>\"\'Guatemala is a country of about 3,000,000 people. About half of them still dress in the Indian costume of a thousand or two thousand years back. They are wonderful people, very simple. . . . . I went . . . to present them with a Book of Mormon. I started to say, \"I come to give you a copy of the Book of Mormon, a history of your people,\" and two chiefs immediately arose on their feet, and I started to say, \"You are of the house of Israel,\" but before I could get it out of my mouth they jumped to their feet and said, \"We are of the House of Israel.\"\'</p>\n<p>(Elder Gordon M. Romney, \"Conference Report,\" April 1957, p. 80)</p>\n<p>\"\'That is the destiny of our Indian tribes . . . [T]he Lord has rewarded unto them double for all the sins that were committed by their ancient fathers in their apostacy, and when he has visited them in judgment according to the prophecies that are contained in this Book of Mormon, and the times of the Gentiles who noir occupy this land are fulfilled, then the Lord will make have his arm, and he will redeem these remnants of Israel, that they may inherit the blessings promised to their ancient fathers.\'</p>\n<p>(Orson Pratt, \"Journal of Discourses.\" 1874, Vol. 16, p. 353)</p>\n<p>\"\'Neither will He suffer that the Gentiles shall destroy the seed of thy brethren\"--that is, the Lamanites proper. They were not to be permitted to destroy Nephi\'s seed that should be mingled among the Lamanites, nor should they be permitted to destroy the Lamanites—that is, the descendants of Laman and Lemuel. Nephi predicted this. Today it is said that the Indians will perish, and that it is impossible to save them. Here is the word of God recorded in this sacred book. . . . And strange to say—if anything can be said to be strange connected with the work of God—the descendants of those ancient covenant people of the Lord, have gladly received the testimony of the servants of God. Wherever we have gone and mingled with those people, with those Red Men, and been able to communicate to them the truths of which we are in possession, which God has revealed to us, . . . and everywhere where those men with red skins dwell, they have gladly received the testimony of God\'s servants concerning the Gospel, and they rejoicein its fullness and in the knowledge that their fathers once possessed, and of the redemption that Jesus Christ has wrought out for them.\'</p>\n<p>(George Q Cannon, \"Journal of Discourses,\" 1884, Vol. 25, p. 124)</p>\n<p>\"\'The work of the Lord among the Lamanites must not be postponed, if we desire to retain the approval of God. Thus far we have been content simply to baptize them and let them run wild again, but this must continue no longer; the same devoted effort, the same care in instructing, the same organization of priesthood must be introduced and maintained among the house of Lehi as amongst those of Israel gathered from gentile nations. As yet, God has been doing all, and we comparatively nothing. He has led many of them to us, and they have been baptized, and now we must instruct them further, and organize them into churches with proper presidencies, attach them to our stakes, organizations, etc. In one word, treat them exactly, in these respects, as we would and do treat our white brethren.\'</p>\n<p>(\"Millennial Star,\" 44:33; a letter from Salt Lake City, dated Oct 18, 1882)</p>\n<p>\"In July 1843 a band of Potttawattamies came to see Joseph Smith, looking for sympathy on having their lands taken from the. Joseph Smith told them: \'The Great Spirit has given me a book and told me that you will soon be blessed again. The Great Spirit will soon talk with you and your children. This is the book which your fathers made. I wrote upon it (showing them the Book pf Mormon). This tells what you have to do. Do not kill white men; it is not good; but ask the Great Spirit for what you want and it will not be long before the Great Spirit will bless you and you will cultivate the earth and build good houses like white men.\'</p>\n<p>(Vol. 5, p. 381)</p>\n<p>\"And, in May 1844 a band of Sac and Fox Indians came and camped out in Nauvoo to see Joseph Smith, complaining \'they had been robbed of their lands by whites and cruelly treated.\' Joseph Smith\'s response was: \"I told them I knew they had been wronged, but that we had bought this land and paid our money for it. I advised them not to sell any more land, but to cultivate peace with the different tribes and with all men, as the Great Spirit wanted them to be united and to live in peace. The Great Spirit has enabled me to find a book [showing them the Book of Mormon], which told me about your fathers, and the Great Spirit told me, \'You must send to all the tribes you can, and tell them to live in peace;\' and when any of our people come to see you, I want you to trear them as we treat you.\'\"</p>\n<p>(Vol. 6, pp. 401-402)<br />\n_____</p>\n<p>An official Mormon Church proclamation on Lamamite origins reads as follows:</p>\n<p>\"We also bear testimony that the \'Indians\' (so called) of North and South America are a remnant of the tribes of Israel; as is now made manifest by the discovery and revelation of their ancient oracles and records.\"</p>\n<p>(\"OFFICIAL CHURCH PROCLAMATION OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST, OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS,\" 6 April 1845; see also, \"WHo are the Lamanites?: What is the Consistent LDS Church Doctrine Regarding the Ancestral Origins of American Indians?,\" at: <a href=\"http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=If+the+Lamanites+wouldn%27t+survive+until+the+coming+forth+of+the+Book+of+Mormon+-+as+Moroni+should+have+known%2C+since+he+was+a+righteous+prophet+--+then+why+address+his+remarks+to&amp;source=web&amp;cd=1&amp;cad=rja&amp;ved=0CCIQFjAA&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.i4m.com%2Fthink%2Flists%2Flamanite.htm&amp;ei=AKpzUNyJINHW0gGlrYCYDw&amp;usg=AFQjCNGBrkWEQ7l4z3RtZHPXNS0yV7mCBg\" title=\"http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=If+the+Lamanites+wouldn%27t+survive+until+the+coming+forth+of+the+Book+of+Mormon+-+as+Moroni+should+have+known%2C+since+he+was+a+righteous+prophet+--+then+why+address+his+remarks+to&amp;source=web&amp;cd=1&amp;cad=rja&amp;ved=0CCIQFjAA&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.i4m.com%2Fthink%2Flists%2Flamanite.htm&amp;ei=AKpzUNyJINHW0gGlrYCYDw&amp;usg=AFQjCNGBrkWEQ7l4z3RtZHPXNS0yV7mCBg\">http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=If+the+Lamanites+wouldn%27t+survi...</a></p>\n<hr />\n<p>anybody<br />\nI\'ve said this before and I\'ll now say it again<br />\nGreat post Steve, excellent background and fact checking as usual -- but this silliness can be put to rest with one simple question:</p>\n<p>\"Why is this night different from all other nights?\"</p>\n<p>The one thing the Jewish people have remembered all over the world for the last three thousand years is that they were once held as slaves in Egypt. Even crypto Jews living in the southwest have family traditions going back centuries about doing some things on Friday and not doing some things after sunset that evening. No native group in the Americas have any such stories or legends.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>wittyname<br />\nRe: I\'ve said this before and I\'ll now say it again<br />\nanybody Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------</p>\n<p>&gt; \"Why is this night different from all other<br />\n&gt; nights?\"<br />\n&gt;<br />\n&gt; The one thing the Jewish people have remembered<br />\n&gt; all over the world for the last three thousand<br />\n&gt; years is that they were once held as slaves in<br />\n&gt; Egypt. Even crypto Jews living in the southwest<br />\n&gt; have family traditions going back centuries about<br />\n&gt; doing some things on Friday and not doing some<br />\n&gt; things after sunset that evening. No native group<br />\n&gt; in the Americas have any such stories or legends.</p>\n<p>That\'s what I was thinking. Even if we didn\'t have DNA to back up the inaccuracy, there\'s nothing qualitative to back it up either. I would expect that they would have traditions similar to Beta Israel (<a href=\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_Israel\" title=\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_Israel\">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_Israel</a>).</p>\n<hr />\n<p>blueorchid<br />\nRe: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .<br />\nThank you Steve. I really wanted some of those sources. How would they ever take that much back? No wonder they have opted for \'No comment\'.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>twojedis<br />\nRe: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .<br />\nWhy are the Native Americans not irate about this?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>wittyname<br />\nRe: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .<br />\nIf pressed, they\'d probably channel GBH and say \"I don\'t think we teach that...\" regardless of evidence.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>lucky<br />\nRe: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .<br />\nIn 1985 Gordon BS Hinckley reported in General Conference on the Mexico City Temple re dedication. He spoke of the Mexican ppl that attended and said \" many have the blood of Lehi in their veins)</p>\n<p>( what a STUPID ASS!!!)</p>\n<p>Even Jews can not find Jewish blood in American Indians</p>\n<p><a href=\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N_Ut0jCAbg\" title=\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N_Ut0jCAbg\">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N_Ut0jCAbg</a></p>\n<hr />\n<p>Tupperwhere<br />\nRe: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .<br />\ntwojedis Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------<br />\n&gt; Why are the Native Americans not irate about this?</p>\n<p>Well sh!t goddamn they are! But I also think that TSCC coddles any native americans that show interest in the church in hopes that they will support BOM. They brainwash them into thinking they are \"speshul\" when their ancestry really has zero to do with the jews or mormonism whatsoever. The \"natives\" get entangled in this so much that they don\'t even notice they are being manipulated. I wouldn\'t say this normally except that I\'ve seen it happen first hand to native family members of mine. It\'s sick and wrong. One of my sick and wrong relatives has been prancing around speaking out for the mormons. He has been in prison MANY times for beating the @#$%&amp; out of his wife. Their TSCC kids sat back and watched it happen. One of the kids had to pull him off of her mother more than once. That particular Lamanite now speaks at firesides and is congratulated many times over for his bravery and reverence for rejoining the church and paying enough tithing to become temple worthy again.</p>\n<p>He is a mormom rock star now! His kids still don\'t have a voice and still have never told their story about his sorry ass. Shame shame shame on TSCC. I think one of the strong points here at RFM are the Canadian Indians. The ones outside of Utah anyway. The ones in Utah are OWNED by the church. They are too close for comfort. I only hope it\'s the natives in Canada that speak out and tell someone that TSCC is BS beyond belief.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>sithlord<br />\nRe: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .<br />\nUnbelievable! I am so irate I cannot think straight! What an incredible compilation of data, quotes, and facts! Is there anything we can do to get this message out there??</p>\n<hr />\n<p>twojedis<br />\nRe: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .<br />\nThis whole thing is beyond absurd. I can\'t believe the guy in conference yesterday is still perpetuating the lie!</p>\n<hr />\n<p>hello<br />\nRe: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .<br />\nThanks for the links, the vid is good, and the IRR pages too.</p>\n<p>Has anyone found any weblinks to pages with the latest science and research relative to NA DNA? Could be good to post them here, highlight them and archive them.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>twojedis<br />\nRe: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .<br />\nSteve, has this ever been picked up and made a big deal in mainstream media?</p>\n<p>forbiddencokedrinker<br />\nRe: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .<br />\nThe girl who cuts my hair claims to have both Jewish and Native American ancestry. Of course if this claim is true, the combination happened sometime after the Mayflower arrived on these shores.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>lucky<br />\nRe: I\'ve said this before and I\'ll now say it again<br />\nanybody Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------</p>\n<p>&gt; The one thing the Jewish people have remembered<br />\n&gt; all over the world for the last three thousand<br />\n&gt; years is that they were once held as slaves in<br />\n&gt; Egypt. Even crypto Jews living in the southwest<br />\n&gt; have family traditions going back centuries about<br />\n&gt; doing some things on Friday and not doing some<br />\n&gt; things after sunset that evening. No native group<br />\n&gt; in the Americas have any such stories or legends.</p>\n<p>Doesn\'t a person have to have a Friday before they can avoid doing things after sunset on Friday? Did the American Indians<br />\nhave a 7 day calender? I don\'t think so for some reason.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>anagrammy<br />\nRe: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .<br />\nJust like the angel took back the plates in order to promote faith, the Lord in his wisdom has hidden the DNA for the same reason...</p>\n<p>Choke.</p>\n<p>Anagrammy</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Mormoney<br />\nRe: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .<br />\nYour research is so good and thorough that it\'s exhausting. Sometimes when I argue the DNA point, some excuses that come up are well covered in your article. Great work.</p>\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1490456053, expire = 1490542453, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:0793b5e9c34ff83ff410f5e299014d41' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

steve benson Oct. 2012

--Identifying from Whom the Lamanites Originally Descended

Thus Spake the Prophet Joseph Smith:

"When I was about 17 years old I saw another vision of angels in the night season after I had retired to bed I had not been asleep . . . [

"[A]ll at once the room was illuminated above the brightness of the sun an angel appeared before me . . .

"[H]e said unto me, 'I am a messenger sent from God, be faithful and keep his commandments in all things.'

"[H]e told me of a sacred record which was written on plates of gold. I saw in the vision the place where they were deposited.

"[H]E SAID THE INDIANS WERE THE LITERAL DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM."

("The Papers of Joseph Smith," Vol. 2, "Journal, 1832-1842," edited by Dean C. Jessee, Deseret Book Company, Salt Lake City, copyright 1992, Corporation of the President, pp. 69-70), emphasis added)

Thus Spake the Book of Mormon:

"And then shall the remnant of our seed know concerning us, how that we came out from Jerusalem, and that THEY ARE THE DESCENDAN TS OF THE JEWS."

(Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 30:4, emphasis added)
_____

--Identifying Who the Lamanites Are Today

Thus Spake President Spencer W. Kimball:

"The term 'Lamanite' includes all Indians and Indian mixtures, such as the Polynesians, the Guatemalans, the Peruvians, as well as the Sioux, the Apache, the Mohawk, the Navajo, and others. IT IS A LARGE GROUP of great people."

(Spencer W. Kimball, "Of Royal Blood," in "Ensign," July 1971, p. 7), emphasis added)
_____

--Determining Where Scads of Lamanites Are Presently Living

Thus Spake Boyd K. Packer, Senior Apostle over Lamanite Affairs:

"THERE ARE MORE THAN 60,000,000 PEOPLE OF LAMANITE EXTRACTION. It is no accident that the Church now prospers among them in Mexico, Central and South America, in the islands of the sea, and among the Indian tribes of North America."

("President Spencer W. Kimball: No Ordinary Man," in "Ensign," March 1974, pp. 3ff), emphasis added)

"In contrast to the relatively few in North America who could claim Lamanite lineage (1,300,000), Packer pointed to the many millions in Mexico, Yucatan, Guatemala, and throughout South America: 'In all . .. . THERE ARE 75,600,000 WHO SHARE IN YOUR [NATIVE AMERICAN LAMANITE] BIRTHRIGHT, OF WHOM 31,990,000 ARE PURE INDIANS.'"

(Boyd K. Packer, address given during proceedings of the annual Indian Week at BYU, cited by Armand L. Mauss, "All Abraham's Children," p. 96), emphasis added)
_____

Determining from the Mormon Church the Present Location of Jewish DNA Among All These Readily-Available Lamanites.

Thus spake, well, ummm, from the posting headlined, "DNA and Book of Mormon" . . .

"There has been no 'official' response from the Mormon Church regarding the DNA research, Native Americans and the implications for the Book of Mormon, other than the statement posted on the Mormon.org website under the heading 'Mistakes in the News' which states:

"'DNA and the Book of Mormon Various media outlets, 11 November 2003'

"'The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ is exactly what it claims to be - a record of God's dealings with peoples of ancient America and a second witness of the divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ.

"'The strongest witness of the Book of Mormon is to be obtained by living the Christ-centered principles contained in its pages and by praying about its truthfulness.

"Recent attacks on the veracity of the Book of Mormon based on DNA evidence are ill considered.

"Nothing in the Book of Mormon precludes migration into the Americas by peoples of Asiatic origin. The scientific issues relating to DNA, however, are numerous and complex. . . . '"

http://www.tungate.com/murphy.htm

*****

For an examination of the corner into which the Mormon Church itself and modern genetic science have painted the absurd LDS position on the subject of Lamanite DNA, see "Lamanites No More: DNA and Lost Ties to Father Lehi," at:

http://mit.irr.org/lamanites-no-more-dna-and-lost-ties-father-lehi
_____

For the Mormon Church's established (and thoroughly discredited) doctrinal teachings on the alleged genetic identity of the Lamanites, below is RfM poster "Deconstructor's" article entitled, "Who Are The Lamanites?" (17 February 2006, emphasis added):

"The Lord declares it in the Doctrine and Covenants scriptures:

"D&C 3:18-20--

"18 'And this testimony [The Book of Mormon] shall come to the knowledge of the Lamanites, and the Lemuelites, and the Ishmaelites, who dwindled in unbelief because of the iniquity of their fathers, whom the Lord has suffered to destroy their brethren the Nephites, because of their iniquities and their abominations.

"19 'And for this very purpose are these plates preserved, which contain these records—that the promises of the Lord might be fulfilled, which he made to his people;

"20 'And that the Lamanites might come to the knowledge of their fathers, and that they might know the promises of the Lord, and that they may believe the gospel and rely upon the merits of Jesus Christ, and be glorified through faith in his name, and that through their repentance they might be saved. Amen.'

"For the record, the LDS Church has consistently and emphatically declared that Lamanites exist today, and who they are:

"The Doctrine and Covenants

"Modern Church apologists want to pretend that the Church doesn't know who Lamanites are. They should be embarassed to say such lies to the press, when the record is so glaringly clear on this matter.

"D&C 28:8--'And now, behold, I say unto you that you shall go unto the Lamanites and preach my gospel unto them; and inasmuch as they receive thy teachings thou shalt cause my church to be established among them; and thou shalt have revelations, but write them not by way of commandment.

"D&C 28:9--'And now, behold, I say unto you that it is not revealed, and no man knoweth where the city Zion shall be built, but it shall be given hereafter. Behold, I say unto you that it shall be on the borders by the Lamanites.'

D&C 28:14--'And thou shalt assist to settle all these things, according to the covenants of the church, before thou shalt take thy journey among the Lamanites.'

"D&C 30:6--'And be you afflicted in all his afflictions, ever lifting up your heart unto me in prayer and faith, for his and your deliverance; for I have given unto him power to build up my church among the Lamanites;'

"D&C 32:2--'And that which I have appointed unto him is that he shall go with my servants, Oliver Cowdery and Peter Whitmer, Jun., into the wilderness among the Lamanites.'

"D&C 49:24--'But before the great day of the Lord shall come, Jacob shall flourish in the wilderness, and the Lamanites shall blossom as the rose.'

"D&C 54:8--'And thus you shall take your journey into the regions westward, unto the land of Missouri, unto the borders of the Lamanites.'

"'Not until the revelations of Joseph Smith, bringing forth the Book of Mormon, did any one know of these migrants. It was not known before, but now the question is fully answered. Now the Lamanites number about sixty million; they are in all of the states of America from Tierra del Fuego all the way up to Point Barrows, and they are in nearly all the islands of the sea from Hawaii south to southern New Zealand. The Church is deeply interested in all Lamanites because of these revelations and because of this great Book of Mormon, their history that was written on plates of gold and deposited in the hill.

"The translation by the Prophet Joseph Smith revealed a running history for 1,000 years--600 years before Christ until four hundred after Christ--a history of these great people who occupied this land for that 1,000 years. Then for the next 1,400 years, they lost much of their high culture. The descendants of this mighty people were called Indians by Columbus in 1492 when he found them here.'

(Spencer W. Kimball, "Of Royal Blood," in "Ensign," July 1971, 7 (In the "Special Lamanite Section")

"Before 1978 the Book of Mormon used the term 'white and delightsome' to show how great white people were. In 1978 when the Church changed theier stance on Blacks, they changed the word 'white' to 'pure.' It’s in 2 Nephi 30:6, but that was only a window dressing,

"The Church left these:

"1 Nephi 12:23--'And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.'

"1 Nephi 13:15--'And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles, and they did prosper and obtain the land for their inheritance; and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people before they were slain.'

"2 Nephi 5:21--'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

"Jacob 3:8--'O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought with them before the throne of God.'

"Alma 3:6--'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'

"3 Nephi 2:15--'And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites;'

"Mormon 5:15--'And also that the seed of this people may more fully believe his gospel, which shall go forth unto them from the Gentiles; for this people shall be scattered, and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us, yea, even that which hath been among the Lamanites, and this because of their unbelief and idolatry.'

"What Is The OFFICIAL Church Doctrine re: Ancestral Origins of North American Indians??

"GOD's POSITION (to Joseph Smith, via the DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS):

"Well, the Lord makes it clear to Joseph Smith in D&C 3:18-20:

"18--'And this testimony [the BoM] shall come to the knowledge of the Lamanites, and the Lemuelites, and the Ishmaelites, who dwindled in unbelief because of the iniquity of their fathers, whom the Lord has suffered to destroy their brethren the Nephites, because of their iniquities and their abominations.

"19--'And for this very purpose are these plates preserved, which contain these records—that the promises of the Lord might be fulfilled, which he made to his epeople;

"20--'And that the Lamanites might come to the knowledge of their fathers, and that they might know the promises of the Lord, and that they may believe the gospel and rely upon the merits of Jesus Christ, and be glorified through faith in his name, and that through their repentance they might be saved. Amen.'

"So, dear TBMs, if the indigenous peoples of the New World were Lamanites in 1828, when Section 3 was 'revealed,' and if they were Lamanites when I was assigned to work among them on my mission in the early 1970s, then they're still Lamanites today and the folks at FARMS are making up bullshit excuses.

"D&C 32:2--'And that which I have appointed unto him is that he shall go with my servants, Oliver Cowdery and Peter Whitmer, Jun., into the wilderness among the Lamanites.

"D&C 49:24--'But before the great day of the Lord shall come, Jacob shall flourish in the wilderness, and the Lamanites shall blossom as the rose.

"D&C 54:8--'And thus you shall take your journey into the regions westward, unto the land of Missouri, unto the borders of the Lamanites.'

How could they go among the Lamanites if the Lamanites were gone? How could they establish a church of nonexistent people? How could the Lamanites blossom as a rose if they had already died off?

D&C 10:48; D&C 19:27; D&C 28:8-9,14; D&C 30:6; D&C 57:4 (See also the heading info, which provides contextual expansion). D&C 101:70-71; D&C 109:65-66).

"BOOK OF MORMON:

"1) The Introduction to the Book of Mormon that the Lamanites, the last surviving Book of Mormon people, are "the principal ancestors of the American Indians.' The intro also says 'Written to the Lamanites, who are a remnant of the house of Israel.'

"Furthermore, Moroni mentions several times he's writing to the Lamanites.

"If the Lamanites wouldn't survive until the coming forth of the BoM--as Moroni should have known, since he was a righteous prophet--then why address his remarks to them? Maybe he didn't know, huh?

"2) The Jaredites came 'into that quarter where there never had man been.' (Ether 2:5) The Nephites likewise came to a land 'kept from all other nations.'

(2 Nephi 1:9-11)

"3) The footnotes of the editions of the Book of Mormon from 1876-1921 indicate Lehi & company landed in Chile; the description of Helaman 3:8 is explicated in the [officially sanctioned] footnotes in editions of the Book of Mormon from 1880-1920: 'And it came to pass that they [the Nephites] did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land [g] southward to the land [h] northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea [i] south, to the sea [j] north, from the sea [k] west, to the sea [l] east.'

"The footnotes provide the following identifications of these lands and bodies of water: '[g], South America. [h], North America. [i], Atlantic, south of Cape Horn. [j], Arctic, north of North America. [k], Pacific. [l], Atlantic.' These footnotes indicate the official Church interpretation of Helaman 3:8 was that the Lamanites/Nephites covered BOTH continents of the entire western hemisphere.

"THE 'PROPHET' JOSEPH SMITH:

"1) Joseph Smith described the Book of Mormon as 'the history of ancient America . . .'

"2) In 1833 Joseph Smith wrote to Rochester, New York, newspaper editor N. C. Saxton that '[t]he Book of Mormon is a record of the forefathers of our western Tribes of Indians . . . By it we learn that our western tribes of Indians are descendants from that Joseph that was sold into Egypt . . . '

"3) Joseph Smith wrote in the March 1, 1842 'Times and Seasons' that '. . . the principal nation of the second race [i.e., the Nephites and Lamanites] fell in battle towards the close of the fourth century [A.D.]. The remnant are the Indians that now inhabit this country.'

"4) In June 1834, Joseph Smith recounted the discovery of the skeleton of the now-notorious 'Zelph, the white Lamanite' [sic] in a mound in Illinois, referring to 'the mounds which had been thrown up by the ancient inhabitants of this country - Nephites, Lamanites, etc., . . . [S]ubsequently the visions of the past being opened to my understanding by the Spirit of the Almighty; I discovered that the person whose skeleton was before us was a white Lamanite, a large thick-set man, and a man of God. His name was Zelph. He was a warrior and chieftain under the great prophet Onandagus, who was known from the Hill Cumorah, or eastern sea to the Rocky mountains . . . He was killed in battle by the arrow found among his ribs, during the last struggle of the Lamanites and Nephites.'

(B. H. Roberts, "Documentary History of the Church," II:79-80; "Manuscript History of the Church," Book A-1:482-83, LDS Church Archives, Salt Lake City, Utah)

"OTHER OFFICIAL SOURCES:

"1) In the book 'Gospel Principles'--the Church's own official handbook of basic doctrine: 'The Lamanites Will Become a Great People'--The Lord said that when his coming was near, the Lamanites would become a righteous and respected people. He said, 'Before the great day of the Lord shall come, . . . the Lamanites shall blossom as the rose' (D&C 49:24). Great numbers of Lamanites in North and South America and the South Pacific are now receiving the blessings of the gospel.'

"2) Prophet-to-be Joseph Fielding Smith, while an Apostle in the Quorum of the Twelve (and official Church historian), published: 'Within recent years there has arisen among certain students of the Book of Mormon a theory to the effect that within the period covered by the Book of Mormon, the Nephites and Lamanites were confined almost within the borders of the territory comprising Central America and the southern portion of Mexico; the Isthmus of Tehuantepec probably being the "narrow neck" of land spoken of in the Book of Mormon rather than the Isthmus of Panama . . .This modernistic theory of necessity, in order to be consistent, must place the waters of Ripliancum and the Hill Cumorah some place within the restricted territory of Central America, notwithstanding the teachings of the Church to the contrary for upwards of 100 years . . . In the light of revelation it is absurd for anyone to maintain that the Nephites and Lamanites did not possess this northern land . . . In the face of this evidence coming from the Prophet Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer, we cannot say that the Nephites and Lamanites did not possess the territory of the United States and that the Hill Cumorah is in Central America.'

("The Deseret News," in "Church Section," Feb. 27, 1954, pp. 2-3)

"3) In General Conference, 1960 (and the ensuing published official 'Conference Reports'), Spencer W. Kimball said: 'I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today. . . . The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, 15 of the 20 were as light as Anglos, five were darker but equally delightsome The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation. At one meeting a father and mother and their 16-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl--16--sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents--on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather. . . .These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.' [NOTE: the Navajo/Dine is among the most obviously Asian of all Native American tribes, in terms of their DNA, linguistics, orhtodonty, cranial shape, etc.]

"'(We believe). . . . 'That the existing Indian tribes are all direct descendants of Lehi and his company, and that therefore they have sprung from men all of whom were of the house of Israel.'

(James E. Talmage, "The Articles of Faith," p. 293)

"'When Columbus discovered America, the native inhabitants, the American Indians as they were soon to be designated, were a people of mixed blood and origin. Chiefly, they were Lamanites, but such remnants of the Nephite nation as had not been destroyed had, of course, mingled with the Lamanites. Thus, the Indians were Jews by nationality. . . . [since then] there has been [a]. . . dilution of the pure Lamanitish blood. . . . But with it all, the great majority are the descendants of the original inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere, the dominant blood lineage is that of Israel. The Indians are repeatedly called Lamanites in the revelations to. . . . become again a white and delightsome people as were their ancestors a great many generations ago.'

(Bruce R. McConkie, "Mormon Doctrine," 2nd ed., 1966, pp. 32-33.

"'. . . [T]hat the Book of Mormon is about the only historical document we have at the present time of this great western world? . . . . It tells, briefly, it is true, a story that at once could be accepted by scientists, philologists and all other men who would investigate it. Every year brings to our knowledge something that corroborates that book as a true historical document.'

(Andrew Jensen, "Conference Report," October 1907, p. 96)

"'Here (holding the Book of Mormon in his hand) we present a record of this American continent, a history of a branch of the tribe of Joseph, for nearly 600 years before Christ, and until 420 years after Christ, a history of the Lord's dealings with them from the time they left Jerusalem until one of their principal nations fell in battle, because of their apostacy; and the descendants of the remaining remnant are this degenerated people we call Indians, who still exist . . . which afterwards became a "multitude of nations," according to the blessing pronounced by the ancient patriarch Jacob, when [p. 174] blessing his two grandsons, Ephraim and Manasseh.'

(Orson Pratt, "Journal of Discourses," Vol. 19, p. 173)

"'We can pray to the Father, in the name of Jesus, to convert these Indian tribes around us . . . that they shall be instructed not only in relation to their fathers and the Gospel contained in the record of their fathers . . . because they are of the blood of Israel.'

(Orson Pratt, "Journal of Discourses," 1875, Vol. 17, p. 301)

"'. . . [T]he blood of Manasseh is found in the tribes and nations of the Indians of North and South America.'

(Hyrum G. Smith, "Conference Report," April 1929, p. 123)

"'And we have scarcely touched the Indian races. There is an immense field spreading out before the Elders of this Church in the redemption of these poor remnants of the house of Israel. . . . But here stretches out before us this immense continent on the south, peopled with descendants of the house of Israel.'

(George Q Cannon, "Collected Discourses," Vol. 5, p. 269)

"'These natives belong to the house of Israel. . . . The Lord has taken from this race any disposition for improvement even to this day; the best of them consider it a disgrace to work. Whatever drudgery is performed is done by their squaws, or by slaves captured from neighboring, tribes or bands. Ask any of them to work; the reply is, "Me big Indian, me no work.". . . It is prophesied by Nephi as follows: "For after the book [Book of Mormon] of which I have spoken shall come forth, and be written unto the Gentiles, and sealed up again unto the Lord, there shall be many which shall believe the words which are written; and they shall carry them forth unto the remnant of our seed [the present American Indians.] And then shall the remnant of our seed know concerning us, how that we came out from Jerusalem, and that they are descendants of the Jews.'

(Brigham Young, "Journal of Discourses," Vol. 10, p. 359)

"'. . . to serve and to teach hundreds of the children of Father Lehi. One expression of appreciation from an Indian boy included these moving words: "Before I took LDS seminary I didn't have very much to live for. . . . I had always felt that Indians could not do things as well as white people. Now I know that I am a child of God. I know that my people are of the house of Israel. . . .'"

(Neal A. Maxwell, "Conference Report," October 1970, p. 93)

"'I have had the privilege of laboring among the true blood of Israel, through the loins of Joseph, through the two branches of the House of Israel--Ephraim and Manasseh--a people whom the Lord loves--a people whom the Lord chastens and forgives because of their great faith.'

(E. Wesley Smith, "Conference Report," October 1950, p. 47)

"'Here he [God] has the Indian or Lamanite, with a background of 25 centuries of superstition, degradation, idolatry and indolence. . . . I present to you a people who, according to prophecies, have been scattered and driven, defrauded and deprived, who are a "branch of the tree of Israel--lost from its body--wanderers in a strange land"--their own land. . . . I beg of you, do not disparage the Lamanite-Nephites . . . Do not scoff and ignore these Nephite-Lamanites . . . Do not prate your power of speech or your fearlessness unless you too could stand with the Prophet Samuel on the city wall, dodging stones and spears and arrows while trying to preach the gospel of salvation. The very descendants of this great prophet are with us. They may be Navajos or Cherokees. . . . Mayas or Pimas. . . . Piutes or Mohicans. . . . And in these living descendants . . . will be redeemed, will rise and will become a blessed people. God has said it.'

(Spencer W. Kimball, "Conference Report," April 1954, pp. 106-08)

"'In a sense I do not feel sorry for the Indian people because they are children of promise, belonging as they do to the house of Israel and are the posterity of Abraham, the father of the faithful, through whose lineage the Lord promised that all nations of the earth are to be blessed; therefore, they are a chosen race and people unto God, possessing a divine and royal heritage.'

(Delbert L. Stapley, "Conference Report," April 1956, p. 56a)

"'I presume that a majority of the brethren and sisters who are here this afternoon have read in the Book of Mormon the statement made by one of the writers, quoting the words of our Savior, in regard to the city of New Jerusalem, that the Gentiles should be called to assist the Lamanites, or the seed of the house of Israel, in the erection and building of that city. . . . I begin to see a little of the preparatory work that I think is going to fit and prepare the seed of Lehi, or the Lamanites, to perform this great and glorious work that has been predicted upon their heads. One of the ancient prophets predicted that kings and queens should be the nursing fathers and nursing mothers of the seed of Israel in the latter days; and I find that, in a sense, this is being fulfilled in the stake over which I preside. The government of the United States, which, I presume, may be classed with the kingdoms of the earth, is establishing schools, and there is one in our neighborhood that I desire to refer to briefly. It isupon the San Juan river, among the Navajo Indians, and is costing several hundreds of thousands of dollars.'

(Elder Walter C. Lyman, "Conference Report," October 1907, p. 86)

"'Guatemala is a country of about 3,000,000 people. About half of them still dress in the Indian costume of a thousand or two thousand years back. They are wonderful people, very simple. . . . . I went . . . to present them with a Book of Mormon. I started to say, "I come to give you a copy of the Book of Mormon, a history of your people," and two chiefs immediately arose on their feet, and I started to say, "You are of the house of Israel," but before I could get it out of my mouth they jumped to their feet and said, "We are of the House of Israel."'

(Elder Gordon M. Romney, "Conference Report," April 1957, p. 80)

"'That is the destiny of our Indian tribes . . . [T]he Lord has rewarded unto them double for all the sins that were committed by their ancient fathers in their apostacy, and when he has visited them in judgment according to the prophecies that are contained in this Book of Mormon, and the times of the Gentiles who noir occupy this land are fulfilled, then the Lord will make have his arm, and he will redeem these remnants of Israel, that they may inherit the blessings promised to their ancient fathers.'

(Orson Pratt, "Journal of Discourses." 1874, Vol. 16, p. 353)

"'Neither will He suffer that the Gentiles shall destroy the seed of thy brethren"--that is, the Lamanites proper. They were not to be permitted to destroy Nephi's seed that should be mingled among the Lamanites, nor should they be permitted to destroy the Lamanites—that is, the descendants of Laman and Lemuel. Nephi predicted this. Today it is said that the Indians will perish, and that it is impossible to save them. Here is the word of God recorded in this sacred book. . . . And strange to say—if anything can be said to be strange connected with the work of God—the descendants of those ancient covenant people of the Lord, have gladly received the testimony of the servants of God. Wherever we have gone and mingled with those people, with those Red Men, and been able to communicate to them the truths of which we are in possession, which God has revealed to us, . . . and everywhere where those men with red skins dwell, they have gladly received the testimony of God's servants concerning the Gospel, and they rejoicein its fullness and in the knowledge that their fathers once possessed, and of the redemption that Jesus Christ has wrought out for them.'

(George Q Cannon, "Journal of Discourses," 1884, Vol. 25, p. 124)

"'The work of the Lord among the Lamanites must not be postponed, if we desire to retain the approval of God. Thus far we have been content simply to baptize them and let them run wild again, but this must continue no longer; the same devoted effort, the same care in instructing, the same organization of priesthood must be introduced and maintained among the house of Lehi as amongst those of Israel gathered from gentile nations. As yet, God has been doing all, and we comparatively nothing. He has led many of them to us, and they have been baptized, and now we must instruct them further, and organize them into churches with proper presidencies, attach them to our stakes, organizations, etc. In one word, treat them exactly, in these respects, as we would and do treat our white brethren.'

("Millennial Star," 44:33; a letter from Salt Lake City, dated Oct 18, 1882)

"In July 1843 a band of Potttawattamies came to see Joseph Smith, looking for sympathy on having their lands taken from the. Joseph Smith told them: 'The Great Spirit has given me a book and told me that you will soon be blessed again. The Great Spirit will soon talk with you and your children. This is the book which your fathers made. I wrote upon it (showing them the Book pf Mormon). This tells what you have to do. Do not kill white men; it is not good; but ask the Great Spirit for what you want and it will not be long before the Great Spirit will bless you and you will cultivate the earth and build good houses like white men.'

(Vol. 5, p. 381)

"And, in May 1844 a band of Sac and Fox Indians came and camped out in Nauvoo to see Joseph Smith, complaining 'they had been robbed of their lands by whites and cruelly treated.' Joseph Smith's response was: "I told them I knew they had been wronged, but that we had bought this land and paid our money for it. I advised them not to sell any more land, but to cultivate peace with the different tribes and with all men, as the Great Spirit wanted them to be united and to live in peace. The Great Spirit has enabled me to find a book [showing them the Book of Mormon], which told me about your fathers, and the Great Spirit told me, 'You must send to all the tribes you can, and tell them to live in peace;' and when any of our people come to see you, I want you to trear them as we treat you.'"

(Vol. 6, pp. 401-402)
_____

An official Mormon Church proclamation on Lamamite origins reads as follows:

"We also bear testimony that the 'Indians' (so called) of North and South America are a remnant of the tribes of Israel; as is now made manifest by the discovery and revelation of their ancient oracles and records."

("OFFICIAL CHURCH PROCLAMATION OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST, OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS," 6 April 1845; see also, "WHo are the Lamanites?: What is the Consistent LDS Church Doctrine Regarding the Ancestral Origins of American Indians?," at: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=If+the+Lamanites+wouldn%27t+survi...


anybody
I've said this before and I'll now say it again
Great post Steve, excellent background and fact checking as usual -- but this silliness can be put to rest with one simple question:

"Why is this night different from all other nights?"

The one thing the Jewish people have remembered all over the world for the last three thousand years is that they were once held as slaves in Egypt. Even crypto Jews living in the southwest have family traditions going back centuries about doing some things on Friday and not doing some things after sunset that evening. No native group in the Americas have any such stories or legends.


wittyname
Re: I've said this before and I'll now say it again
anybody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> "Why is this night different from all other
> nights?"
>
> The one thing the Jewish people have remembered
> all over the world for the last three thousand
> years is that they were once held as slaves in
> Egypt. Even crypto Jews living in the southwest
> have family traditions going back centuries about
> doing some things on Friday and not doing some
> things after sunset that evening. No native group
> in the Americas have any such stories or legends.

That's what I was thinking. Even if we didn't have DNA to back up the inaccuracy, there's nothing qualitative to back it up either. I would expect that they would have traditions similar to Beta Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_Israel).


blueorchid
Re: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .
Thank you Steve. I really wanted some of those sources. How would they ever take that much back? No wonder they have opted for 'No comment'.


twojedis
Re: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .
Why are the Native Americans not irate about this?


wittyname
Re: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .
If pressed, they'd probably channel GBH and say "I don't think we teach that..." regardless of evidence.


lucky
Re: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .
In 1985 Gordon BS Hinckley reported in General Conference on the Mexico City Temple re dedication. He spoke of the Mexican ppl that attended and said " many have the blood of Lehi in their veins)

( what a STUPID ASS!!!)

Even Jews can not find Jewish blood in American Indians

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N_Ut0jCAbg


Tupperwhere
Re: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .
twojedis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why are the Native Americans not irate about this?

Well sh!t goddamn they are! But I also think that TSCC coddles any native americans that show interest in the church in hopes that they will support BOM. They brainwash them into thinking they are "speshul" when their ancestry really has zero to do with the jews or mormonism whatsoever. The "natives" get entangled in this so much that they don't even notice they are being manipulated. I wouldn't say this normally except that I've seen it happen first hand to native family members of mine. It's sick and wrong. One of my sick and wrong relatives has been prancing around speaking out for the mormons. He has been in prison MANY times for beating the @#$%& out of his wife. Their TSCC kids sat back and watched it happen. One of the kids had to pull him off of her mother more than once. That particular Lamanite now speaks at firesides and is congratulated many times over for his bravery and reverence for rejoining the church and paying enough tithing to become temple worthy again.

He is a mormom rock star now! His kids still don't have a voice and still have never told their story about his sorry ass. Shame shame shame on TSCC. I think one of the strong points here at RFM are the Canadian Indians. The ones outside of Utah anyway. The ones in Utah are OWNED by the church. They are too close for comfort. I only hope it's the natives in Canada that speak out and tell someone that TSCC is BS beyond belief.


sithlord
Re: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .
Unbelievable! I am so irate I cannot think straight! What an incredible compilation of data, quotes, and facts! Is there anything we can do to get this message out there??


twojedis
Re: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .
This whole thing is beyond absurd. I can't believe the guy in conference yesterday is still perpetuating the lie!


hello
Re: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .
Thanks for the links, the vid is good, and the IRR pages too.

Has anyone found any weblinks to pages with the latest science and research relative to NA DNA? Could be good to post them here, highlight them and archive them.


twojedis
Re: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .
Steve, has this ever been picked up and made a big deal in mainstream media?

forbiddencokedrinker
Re: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .
The girl who cuts my hair claims to have both Jewish and Native American ancestry. Of course if this claim is true, the combination happened sometime after the Mayflower arrived on these shores.


lucky
Re: I've said this before and I'll now say it again
anybody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The one thing the Jewish people have remembered
> all over the world for the last three thousand
> years is that they were once held as slaves in
> Egypt. Even crypto Jews living in the southwest
> have family traditions going back centuries about
> doing some things on Friday and not doing some
> things after sunset that evening. No native group
> in the Americas have any such stories or legends.

Doesn't a person have to have a Friday before they can avoid doing things after sunset on Friday? Did the American Indians
have a 7 day calender? I don't think so for some reason.


anagrammy
Re: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .
Just like the angel took back the plates in order to promote faith, the Lord in his wisdom has hidden the DNA for the same reason...

Choke.

Anagrammy


Mormoney
Re: Lamanites, Lamanites Everywhere, but Nary A Drop of Jewish DNA . . .
Your research is so good and thorough that it's exhausting. Sometimes when I argue the DNA point, some excuses that come up are well covered in your article. Great work.

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"