Desperate Mopologists Claim Ancient Bulgarian Gold-Plate Find Proves Book of Mormon

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>steve benson Aug 2012</p>\n<p>Below is some predictable silly putty propaganda from an LDS outfit--calling itself the \"Genesis Group\" and marching under the heavenly banner of \"Ancient America Foundation\"--regarding a \"gold plate book\" found in (drum roll, please) Bulgaria--the famous landing spot, of course, for Lehi, Nephi and the rest of the original Mormon pioneer clan.</p>\n<p>(Actually, what they claim is that Bulgarian gold plates prove Book of Mormon gold plates, which is even sillier, since the Bulgarian gold ones are real and the Book of Mormon ones never existed. Details, details).</p>\n<p>Geezus, here we go:</p>\n<p>\"Golden Plates on Display in Bulgaria</p>\n<p>\"The world\'s oldest multiple-page book—in the lost Etruscan language—has gone on display in Bulgaria\'s National History Museum in Sofia.</p>\n<p>\"And something about that book has particular interest for Latter-day Saints.</p>\n<p>\"As is evident from the photograph, this book was created on metal plates that are bound together with metal rings, similar to the original source documents that became the Book of Mormon.</p>\n<p>\"The book dates back to 600 B.C., which is roughly the time that Lehi and his family left Jerusalem. The small manuscript, which is more than two and a half millennia old, was discovered 60 years ago in a tomb uncovered during digging for a canal along the Strouma River in southwestern Bulgaria. It has now been donated to the museum by its finder, on condition of anonymity.</p>\n<p>\"Reports say the unidentified donor is now 87 years old and lives in Macedonia. The authenticity of the book has been confirmed by two experts in Sofia and London, museum director Bojidar Dimitrov said quoted by AFP. The six sheets are believed to be the oldest comprehensive work involving multiple pages, said Elka Penkova, who heads the museum\'s archaeological department.</p>\n<p>\"There are around 30 similar pages known in the world, Ms. Penkova said, \"but they are not linked together in a book.\"</p>\n<p>\"The Etruscans—one of Europe\'s most mysterious ancient peoples—are believed to have migrated from Lydia, in modern western Turkey, settling in northern and central Italy nearly 3,000 years ago. They were wiped out by the conquering Romans in the fourth century BC, leaving few written records.</p>\n<p>\"The Ancient America Foundation (AAF) is pleased to present AAF Notes, a series of research articles by scholars of Book of Mormon culture and history and reviewed by AAF editors. For more, Visit the AAF web site at <a href=\"http://www.ancientamerica.org\" title=\"http://www.ancientamerica.org\">http://www.ancientamerica.org</a>.</p>\n<p>\"AAF Note: We wish to thank Jeff Brooks for bringing this very interesting discovery article to our attention, demonstrating that bound metal records existed in the Middle East 2500 years ago as claimed by the Book of Mormon.\"</p>\n<p>(\"Golden Plates on Display in Bulgaria,\" by the LDS \"Genesis Group,\" sponsored by \"Ancient America Foundation, 1999-2002,\" at: <a href=\"http://www.ldsgenesisgroup.org/goldenplates.html\" title=\"http://www.ldsgenesisgroup.org/goldenplates.html\">http://www.ldsgenesisgroup.org/goldenplates.html</a>)<br />\n_____</p>\n<p>Now for some actual history, unencumbered by the above unholy-hyped hooey:</p>\n<p>First off, these Bulgarian \"golden plates\" aren\'t actual plates at all; rather, they\'re tiny, lightweight sheets composed of 23.82 karat gold. Even mega-Morg apologist John A. Tvedtnes admits this inconvenient tidbit (probably because he can\'t go to Bulgaria and steal them, then tuck them away from view). Tvedtnes acknowledges that, in fact, they measure a mere \"5 centimeters in length and 4.5 centimeters in width.\"</p>\n<p>(John A. Tvedtnes, \"Gold Book from 600 B.C. Discovered,\" published in \"Insights,\" Volume 23, Issue 5, Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship, Provo, Utah, at: <a href=\"http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/insights/?vol=23&amp;num=5&amp;id=357\" title=\"http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/insights/?vol=23&amp;num=5&amp;id=357\">http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/insights/?vol=23&amp;num=5&amp;id=357</a>)</p>\n<p>As to measurements, one inch equals 2.54 centimeters; translated: these Bulgarian gold \"plates\" are roughly 2 inches square--hardly akin to the Book of Mormon gold plates that Joseph Smith said he lugged down the Hill Cumorah and which he also claimed (albeit not until March 1842) were 8 inches long, 6 inches wide and 6 inches thick. Estimations of the weight of a stack of gold plates that size (as fellow Morg apologist Michael R. Ash reports but, of course, dismisses because it doesn\'t fit the mythical Mormon narrative) is between 175 and 225 pounds.</p>\n<p>(Michael R. Ash, \"[Supposed] Book of Mormon Anachronisms,\" 1998. at: <a href=\"http://www.mormonfortress.com/gweight.html\" title=\"http://www.mormonfortress.com/gweight.html\">http://www.mormonfortress.com/gweight.html</a>. You can see a mock-up of what the Book of Mormon gold plates purportedly looked like as to size under \"File: GoldenPlates.JPG,\" from \"Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia,\" at:<br />\n<a href=\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GoldenPlates.JPG\" title=\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GoldenPlates.JPG\">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GoldenPlates.JPG</a>)</p>\n<p>Here is some additional, more reliable history, minus the Mormon mix of green Jell-O gobble-de-gook that passes for \"scholarship\" in LDS Land:</p>\n<p>\"Unique Book Goes on Display</p>\n<p>\"Text and photo [\'Unique Book Goes on Display: The World\'s Oldest Multiple-Page Book--in the Lost Etruscan Language--Has Gone on Display in Bulgaria\'s National History Museum in Sofia.\" on \"BBC News,\" 26 May 2003], at: <a href=\"http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2939362.stm\" title=\"http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2939362.stm\">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2939362.stm</a> . . .</p>\n<p>\"It contains six bound sheets of 24 carat gold, with illustrations of a horse-rider, a mermaid, a harp and soldiers.</p>\n<p>\"Etruscan Book [The Book dates back to 600 BC].</p>\n<p>\"The small manuscript, which is more than two-and-a-half millennia old, was discovered 60 years ago in a tomb uncovered during digging for a canal along the Strouma river in south-western Bulgaria.</p>\n<p>\"It has now been donated to the museum by its finder, on condition of anonymity.</p>\n<p>\"Reports say the unidentified donor is now 87 years old and lives in Macedonia.</p>\n<p>\"The authenticity of the book has been confirmed by two experts in Sofia and London, museum director Bojidar Dimitrov said quoted by AFP.</p>\n<p>\"The six sheets are believed to be the oldest comprehensive work involving multiple pages, said Elka Penkova, who heads the museum\'s archaeological department.</p>\n<p>\"There are around 30 similar pages known in the world, Ms Penkova said, \'but they are not linked together in a book.\'\"</p>\n<p>(\"Tharcians and the Getai: Romanian History and Culture,\" at: <a href=\"http://romanianhistoryandculture.webs.com/thraciansandthegetai.htm\" title=\"http://romanianhistoryandculture.webs.com/thraciansandthegetai.htm\">http://romanianhistoryandculture.webs.com/thraciansandthegetai.htm</a>)</p>\n<p>Not one to let actual facts get in the way of real fairy tales, a Mormon webmaster named Kelly (but posing as the mythical angel Moroni) triumphantly declares the following:</p>\n<p>\"**NOTE** These plates were dated during the approximate time period as the Book of Mormon gold plates. Mormon critics and anti-Mormon ministries have argued since 1830 that ancient civilizations never used bound gold plates to keep records, therefore Joseph couldn\'t have found any. Oops, I guess they were wrong again. I\'m glad I based my testimony on a witness from the Holy Ghost and not on a witness from a ministry.</p>\n<p>\"--Moroni, aka Kelly Bingham\"</p>\n<p>(\"Unique Book on Display,\" taken from \"BBC News\" report, 26 May 2003, on \"Moroni\'s Latter-day Saint Page,\" at: <a href=\"http://www.moroni10.com/gold_plates_found.html\" title=\"http://www.moroni10.com/gold_plates_found.html\">http://www.moroni10.com/gold_plates_found.html</a>)</p>\n<p>*********</p>\n<p>So, after all the fool\'s gold dust has settled, the big diff between the Estrucan gold plates and the Book of Mormon gold plates?</p>\n<p>Answer:</p>\n<p>The Estrucan gold plates are in a museum where you can see \'em.</p>\n<p>The Book of Mormon gold plates were swiped by an angel and squirreled away where you can\'t see \'em (along with the sword of Laban; the Urim and Thummim; the remains of the Nephite city of Bountiful; cureloms and cumoms; the original Book of Abraham papyri; and all the other stupid stuff Mormons have made up).</p>\n<p>Neener, neener, neener.</p>\n<p>In the name of Jesus Christ. Hide \'em.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>canadianfriend<br />\nRe: I, Nephi, Having Been Born of Bulgarian Parents: Desperate Mopologists Claim Ancient Bulgarian Gold-Plate Find Proves Truth of 19th-Century Book of Mormon Fairy Tale<br />\nMetal sheets with writing appear in literature which predates the BoM, so the idea was not likely a Joseph Smith original. This Bulgarian artifact contains all of six sheets which makes Smith\'s claims about his large (500 pages?)golden book all the more unbelievable.</p>\n<p>Steve Benson is correct. The Bulgarian plates were discovered, then put on display.</p>\n<p>Joseph Smith was led to his plates by a resurrected being, witnesses later \"saw\" the plates with their \"spiritual eyes\", some felt the plates (while they were concealed in a pillow case), then the angel took the plates away, never to be seen again. Big difference.</p>\n<p>The Bulgarian plates are a great archaelogical discovery but do nothing to bolster Smith\'s story.</p>\n<p>Check out this link:</p>\n<p><a href=\"http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080811114749AASpbEg\" title=\"http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080811114749AASpbEg\">http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080811114749AASpbEg</a></p>\n<hr />\n<p>xyz<br />\nRe: I, Nephi, Having Been Born of Bulgarian Parents: Desperate Mopologists Claim Ancient Bulgarian Gold-Plate Find Proves Truth of 19th-Century Book of Mormon Fairy Tale<br />\nLOL! Where to start?</p>\n<p>Th\'Etruscan Plates lay hidden<br />\nIn a Bulgarian tomb.<br />\n\'Till ol\' ditch-digger Bogdan<br />\nThe treasure did exhume.</p>\n<p>I always thought the Smiths were Vulgarians.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Don Bagley<br />\nExactly<br />\nThe Etruscan plates were not found by a farm boy who was prompted by a night time haunting. Nor have those plates been \"lifted up\" or \"hid up\" by angels.</p>\n<p>Steer manure makes a great fertilizer, but it still stinks.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>notmo<br />\nIn all my digging through Mormon history and the back and forth...<br />\nbetween Mo\'s and those who can prove it wrong, I never heard the argument that ancient people never made books on metal bound together with rings.</p>\n<p>That argument never appeared on the radar.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>anonymous user<br />\nRe: I, Nephi, Having Been Born of Bulgarian Parents: Desperate Mopologists Claim Ancient Bulgarian Gold-Plate Find Proves Truth of 19th-Century Book of Mormon Fairy Tale<br />\nWell, here is the opportunity to put their own DNA arguments onto their golden plates and serve it to them cold.</p>\n<p>The Etruscans were roughly contemporary to the time period of the Book of Mormon\'s Lehi migration and civilization. The mopologists insist that Near Eastern DNA from Lehi\'s people cannot be found in America because it is too diluted.</p>\n<p>This Etruscan study was published in 2007 -</p>\n<p>Mitochondrial DNA Variation of Modern Tuscans Supports the Near Eastern Origin of Etruscans, 2007</p>\n<p><a href=\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1852723/pdf/AJHGv80p759.pdf\" title=\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1852723/pdf/AJHGv80p759.pdf\">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1852723/pdf/AJHGv80p759.pdf</a></p>\n<p>\"The origin of the Etruscan people has been a source of major controversy for the past 2,500 years, and several hypotheses<br />\nhave been proposed to explain their language and sophisticated culture, including an Aegean/Anatolian origin.\"</p>\n<p>\"These findings support a direct and rather recent genetic input from the Near East—a scenario in agreement with the Lydian origin of Etruscans. Such a genetic contribution has been extensively diluted by admixture, but it appears that there are still locations in Tuscany, such as Murlo, where traces of its arrival are easily detectable.\"</p>\n<p>Mormons cannot have their plates and DNA too.</p>\n<hr />\nhello<br />\nRe: I, Nephi, Having Been Born of Bulgarian Parents: Desperate Mopologists Claim Ancient Bulgarian Gold-Plate Find Proves Truth of 19th-Century Book of Mormon Fairy Tale<br />\nThese genetic markers found among today\'s Tuscan population are all the more telling because the Etruscan civilization was likely smaller than the BOM-claimed Nephite civilizations, and thus the number of Etruscan peoples was also much smaller than the vaunted Nephite groups.\n<p>Estimates of total numbers living in Etruscan cities and towns during their high culture range from 600,000 to 800,000. I believe the numbers of Nephites/Lamanites cited in the BOM indicate several millions present during the high Nephite civilization.</p>\n<p>And of course, not only do we find clear genetic Etruscans living today, but we also have many ruins and artifacts and histories that prove they were and are real. City of Nephi? Bountiful? Zarahemla? etc.? Not so much...</p>\n<hr />\n<p>robertb<br />\nRe: I, Nephi, Having Been Born of Bulgarian Parents: Desperate Mopologists Claim Ancient Bulgarian Gold-Plate Find Proves Truth of 19th-Century Book of Mormon Fairy Tale<br />\nThe Mormon argument for the Book of Mormon, originating with Hugh Nibley: Something somewhere in the world at some time resembles something in the Book of Mormon. Therefore, the Book of Mormon is true.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>steve benson<br />\nHugh Nibley had two eyes and a nose, just like George Washington. Therefore, Hugh Nibley is George Washington. Case closed.&nbsp;</p>\n<hr />\n<p>robertb<br />\nRe: Hugh Nibley had a nose and two eyes, just like George Washington. Therefore, Hugh Nibley is George Washington. Case closed.<br />\nFurthermore, while Hugh Nibley may not have chopped down a cherry tree, he did eat cherries, which is a convincing parallel to Washington\'s cherry culture.</p>\n<p>We must also not forget that Washington\'s wife was named Martha and one of Nibley\'s daugthers was also named Martha. Evidence for the Nibley being Washington abounds!</p>\n<hr />\n<p>MarkJ<br />\nIf you were an ancient scribe, what material would you use?<br />\nRomans used lead sheets for short notes and curses, but not surprisingly, did not use metal for longer works or documents, although they certainly had the supplies of metal to do so. Why would anyone use metal for long documents when there are many other better materials around?</p>\n<p>Let\'s see..the Egyptians used papyrus, which was plentiful and easy to manufacture. It is also durable - in the dry climate there many manuscripts have survived for thousands of years.</p>\n<p>Or if you were in the Babylonian neck of the woods you would use clay tablets. Again, mud is plentiful and easy to work with.</p>\n<p>Medieval Europeans used parchment, which also has stood up very well for close to a thousand years. Not as cheap or easy to manufacture as mud or plant based writing materials, but sheep skins are not that hard to find.</p>\n<p>But gold or brass??? If you were an ancient scribe and wanted to be sure your message survived, you would pick something that was cheap and durable. A cheap, durable material puts the value in the content, not the medium. It is easy to produce so multiple copies can be made. But because gold is hard to come by, has high intrinsic value, and is physically akward to move and handle, putting written material on gold sheets is almost a guarantee that the message is not going to survive.</p>\n<p>There are very good reasons why the (real) ancient world did not use metal plates for documentation. Maybe selling a \"Golden Bible\" sounded a lot easier than \"Clay Bible.\" Gold is sexy.</p>\n<hr />\nrobertb<br />\nRe: If you were an ancient scribe, what material would you use?<br />\nTreasure hunter Smith made up the story about the gold plates to impress his fellow money diggers and then he was stuck with it, I suspect. He probably wished he had made up a story about a book written on papyrus (oh, wait, we have the Book of Abraham), but no one was paying him to dig for papyrus! You\'re right, gold is sexy.\n<hr />\n<p>steve benson<br />\nThese comparisons, however, tend to fall apart at some point. George Washington could not tell a lie. Joseph Smith told all kinds of lies.&nbsp;</p>\n<hr />\n<p>canadianfriend<br />\nRe: I, Nephi, Having Been Born of Bulgarian Parents: Desperate Mopologists Claim Ancient Bulgarian Gold-Plate Find Proves Truth of 19th-Century Book of Mormon Fairy Tale<br />\n\"The label \"Golden Bible\" actually predates the Book of Mormon, as legends of such an artifact existed in Canada and upstate New York while Joseph Smith was growing up in Vermont.\"</p>\n<p><a href=\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Book_of_Mormon\" title=\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Book_of_Mormon\">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Book_of_Mormon</a></p>\n<hr />\n<p>xyz<br />\nLOL for this whole string!<br />\nThanks for the laugh!</p>\n<hr />\nChicken\'n\'Backpacks<br />\nRe: I, Nephi, Having Been Born of Bulgarian Parents: Desperate Mopologists Claim Ancient Bulgarian Gold-Plate Find Proves Truth of 19th-Century Book of Mormon Fairy Tale<br />\n\"Thousands of Nephite Artifacts Unearthed While Digging Erie Canal!\"\n<p>Oh, sorry, that was a headline I didn\'t see somewhere</p>\n<p>\"Thousands of Nephite Artifacts Unearthed While Digging Panama Canal!\"</p>\n<p>Oops, sorry, that was another one I didn\'t see.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>steve benson<br />\n\"Tens of Thousands of Ex-Mormons Created While LDS Church Digs Its Own Grave\".&nbsp;</p>\n<hr />\nbc<br />\nRe: I, Nephi, Having Been Born of Bulgarian Parents: Desperate Mopologists Claim Ancient Bulgarian Gold-Plate Find Proves Truth of 19th-Century Book of Mormon Fairy Tale<br />\n\"The world\'s oldest multiple-page book\"\n<p>Silly scientists - everyone knows that Brass Plates were around loooong before that.</p>\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1493018860, expire = 1493105260, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:a8158464a1a45fd2a3240fa70dd56b17' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

steve benson Aug 2012

Below is some predictable silly putty propaganda from an LDS outfit--calling itself the "Genesis Group" and marching under the heavenly banner of "Ancient America Foundation"--regarding a "gold plate book" found in (drum roll, please) Bulgaria--the famous landing spot, of course, for Lehi, Nephi and the rest of the original Mormon pioneer clan.

(Actually, what they claim is that Bulgarian gold plates prove Book of Mormon gold plates, which is even sillier, since the Bulgarian gold ones are real and the Book of Mormon ones never existed. Details, details).

Geezus, here we go:

"Golden Plates on Display in Bulgaria

"The world's oldest multiple-page book—in the lost Etruscan language—has gone on display in Bulgaria's National History Museum in Sofia.

"And something about that book has particular interest for Latter-day Saints.

"As is evident from the photograph, this book was created on metal plates that are bound together with metal rings, similar to the original source documents that became the Book of Mormon.

"The book dates back to 600 B.C., which is roughly the time that Lehi and his family left Jerusalem. The small manuscript, which is more than two and a half millennia old, was discovered 60 years ago in a tomb uncovered during digging for a canal along the Strouma River in southwestern Bulgaria. It has now been donated to the museum by its finder, on condition of anonymity.

"Reports say the unidentified donor is now 87 years old and lives in Macedonia. The authenticity of the book has been confirmed by two experts in Sofia and London, museum director Bojidar Dimitrov said quoted by AFP. The six sheets are believed to be the oldest comprehensive work involving multiple pages, said Elka Penkova, who heads the museum's archaeological department.

"There are around 30 similar pages known in the world, Ms. Penkova said, "but they are not linked together in a book."

"The Etruscans—one of Europe's most mysterious ancient peoples—are believed to have migrated from Lydia, in modern western Turkey, settling in northern and central Italy nearly 3,000 years ago. They were wiped out by the conquering Romans in the fourth century BC, leaving few written records.

"The Ancient America Foundation (AAF) is pleased to present AAF Notes, a series of research articles by scholars of Book of Mormon culture and history and reviewed by AAF editors. For more, Visit the AAF web site at http://www.ancientamerica.org.

"AAF Note: We wish to thank Jeff Brooks for bringing this very interesting discovery article to our attention, demonstrating that bound metal records existed in the Middle East 2500 years ago as claimed by the Book of Mormon."

("Golden Plates on Display in Bulgaria," by the LDS "Genesis Group," sponsored by "Ancient America Foundation, 1999-2002," at: http://www.ldsgenesisgroup.org/goldenplates.html)
_____

Now for some actual history, unencumbered by the above unholy-hyped hooey:

First off, these Bulgarian "golden plates" aren't actual plates at all; rather, they're tiny, lightweight sheets composed of 23.82 karat gold. Even mega-Morg apologist John A. Tvedtnes admits this inconvenient tidbit (probably because he can't go to Bulgaria and steal them, then tuck them away from view). Tvedtnes acknowledges that, in fact, they measure a mere "5 centimeters in length and 4.5 centimeters in width."

(John A. Tvedtnes, "Gold Book from 600 B.C. Discovered," published in "Insights," Volume 23, Issue 5, Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship, Provo, Utah, at: http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/insights/?vol=23&num=5&id=357)

As to measurements, one inch equals 2.54 centimeters; translated: these Bulgarian gold "plates" are roughly 2 inches square--hardly akin to the Book of Mormon gold plates that Joseph Smith said he lugged down the Hill Cumorah and which he also claimed (albeit not until March 1842) were 8 inches long, 6 inches wide and 6 inches thick. Estimations of the weight of a stack of gold plates that size (as fellow Morg apologist Michael R. Ash reports but, of course, dismisses because it doesn't fit the mythical Mormon narrative) is between 175 and 225 pounds.

(Michael R. Ash, "[Supposed] Book of Mormon Anachronisms," 1998. at: http://www.mormonfortress.com/gweight.html. You can see a mock-up of what the Book of Mormon gold plates purportedly looked like as to size under "File: GoldenPlates.JPG," from "Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia," at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GoldenPlates.JPG)

Here is some additional, more reliable history, minus the Mormon mix of green Jell-O gobble-de-gook that passes for "scholarship" in LDS Land:

"Unique Book Goes on Display

"Text and photo ['Unique Book Goes on Display: The World's Oldest Multiple-Page Book--in the Lost Etruscan Language--Has Gone on Display in Bulgaria's National History Museum in Sofia." on "BBC News," 26 May 2003], at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2939362.stm . . .

"It contains six bound sheets of 24 carat gold, with illustrations of a horse-rider, a mermaid, a harp and soldiers.

"Etruscan Book [The Book dates back to 600 BC].

"The small manuscript, which is more than two-and-a-half millennia old, was discovered 60 years ago in a tomb uncovered during digging for a canal along the Strouma river in south-western Bulgaria.

"It has now been donated to the museum by its finder, on condition of anonymity.

"Reports say the unidentified donor is now 87 years old and lives in Macedonia.

"The authenticity of the book has been confirmed by two experts in Sofia and London, museum director Bojidar Dimitrov said quoted by AFP.

"The six sheets are believed to be the oldest comprehensive work involving multiple pages, said Elka Penkova, who heads the museum's archaeological department.

"There are around 30 similar pages known in the world, Ms Penkova said, 'but they are not linked together in a book.'"

("Tharcians and the Getai: Romanian History and Culture," at: http://romanianhistoryandculture.webs.com/thraciansandthegetai.htm)

Not one to let actual facts get in the way of real fairy tales, a Mormon webmaster named Kelly (but posing as the mythical angel Moroni) triumphantly declares the following:

"**NOTE** These plates were dated during the approximate time period as the Book of Mormon gold plates. Mormon critics and anti-Mormon ministries have argued since 1830 that ancient civilizations never used bound gold plates to keep records, therefore Joseph couldn't have found any. Oops, I guess they were wrong again. I'm glad I based my testimony on a witness from the Holy Ghost and not on a witness from a ministry.

"--Moroni, aka Kelly Bingham"

("Unique Book on Display," taken from "BBC News" report, 26 May 2003, on "Moroni's Latter-day Saint Page," at: http://www.moroni10.com/gold_plates_found.html)

*********

So, after all the fool's gold dust has settled, the big diff between the Estrucan gold plates and the Book of Mormon gold plates?

Answer:

The Estrucan gold plates are in a museum where you can see 'em.

The Book of Mormon gold plates were swiped by an angel and squirreled away where you can't see 'em (along with the sword of Laban; the Urim and Thummim; the remains of the Nephite city of Bountiful; cureloms and cumoms; the original Book of Abraham papyri; and all the other stupid stuff Mormons have made up).

Neener, neener, neener.

In the name of Jesus Christ. Hide 'em.


canadianfriend
Re: I, Nephi, Having Been Born of Bulgarian Parents: Desperate Mopologists Claim Ancient Bulgarian Gold-Plate Find Proves Truth of 19th-Century Book of Mormon Fairy Tale
Metal sheets with writing appear in literature which predates the BoM, so the idea was not likely a Joseph Smith original. This Bulgarian artifact contains all of six sheets which makes Smith's claims about his large (500 pages?)golden book all the more unbelievable.

Steve Benson is correct. The Bulgarian plates were discovered, then put on display.

Joseph Smith was led to his plates by a resurrected being, witnesses later "saw" the plates with their "spiritual eyes", some felt the plates (while they were concealed in a pillow case), then the angel took the plates away, never to be seen again. Big difference.

The Bulgarian plates are a great archaelogical discovery but do nothing to bolster Smith's story.

Check out this link:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080811114749AASpbEg


xyz
Re: I, Nephi, Having Been Born of Bulgarian Parents: Desperate Mopologists Claim Ancient Bulgarian Gold-Plate Find Proves Truth of 19th-Century Book of Mormon Fairy Tale
LOL! Where to start?

Th'Etruscan Plates lay hidden
In a Bulgarian tomb.
'Till ol' ditch-digger Bogdan
The treasure did exhume.

I always thought the Smiths were Vulgarians.


Don Bagley
Exactly
The Etruscan plates were not found by a farm boy who was prompted by a night time haunting. Nor have those plates been "lifted up" or "hid up" by angels.

Steer manure makes a great fertilizer, but it still stinks.


notmo
In all my digging through Mormon history and the back and forth...
between Mo's and those who can prove it wrong, I never heard the argument that ancient people never made books on metal bound together with rings.

That argument never appeared on the radar.


anonymous user
Re: I, Nephi, Having Been Born of Bulgarian Parents: Desperate Mopologists Claim Ancient Bulgarian Gold-Plate Find Proves Truth of 19th-Century Book of Mormon Fairy Tale
Well, here is the opportunity to put their own DNA arguments onto their golden plates and serve it to them cold.

The Etruscans were roughly contemporary to the time period of the Book of Mormon's Lehi migration and civilization. The mopologists insist that Near Eastern DNA from Lehi's people cannot be found in America because it is too diluted.

This Etruscan study was published in 2007 -

Mitochondrial DNA Variation of Modern Tuscans Supports the Near Eastern Origin of Etruscans, 2007

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1852723/pdf/AJHGv80p759.pdf

"The origin of the Etruscan people has been a source of major controversy for the past 2,500 years, and several hypotheses
have been proposed to explain their language and sophisticated culture, including an Aegean/Anatolian origin."

"These findings support a direct and rather recent genetic input from the Near East—a scenario in agreement with the Lydian origin of Etruscans. Such a genetic contribution has been extensively diluted by admixture, but it appears that there are still locations in Tuscany, such as Murlo, where traces of its arrival are easily detectable."

Mormons cannot have their plates and DNA too.


hello
Re: I, Nephi, Having Been Born of Bulgarian Parents: Desperate Mopologists Claim Ancient Bulgarian Gold-Plate Find Proves Truth of 19th-Century Book of Mormon Fairy Tale
These genetic markers found among today's Tuscan population are all the more telling because the Etruscan civilization was likely smaller than the BOM-claimed Nephite civilizations, and thus the number of Etruscan peoples was also much smaller than the vaunted Nephite groups.

Estimates of total numbers living in Etruscan cities and towns during their high culture range from 600,000 to 800,000. I believe the numbers of Nephites/Lamanites cited in the BOM indicate several millions present during the high Nephite civilization.

And of course, not only do we find clear genetic Etruscans living today, but we also have many ruins and artifacts and histories that prove they were and are real. City of Nephi? Bountiful? Zarahemla? etc.? Not so much...


robertb
Re: I, Nephi, Having Been Born of Bulgarian Parents: Desperate Mopologists Claim Ancient Bulgarian Gold-Plate Find Proves Truth of 19th-Century Book of Mormon Fairy Tale
The Mormon argument for the Book of Mormon, originating with Hugh Nibley: Something somewhere in the world at some time resembles something in the Book of Mormon. Therefore, the Book of Mormon is true.


steve benson
Hugh Nibley had two eyes and a nose, just like George Washington. Therefore, Hugh Nibley is George Washington. Case closed. 


robertb
Re: Hugh Nibley had a nose and two eyes, just like George Washington. Therefore, Hugh Nibley is George Washington. Case closed.
Furthermore, while Hugh Nibley may not have chopped down a cherry tree, he did eat cherries, which is a convincing parallel to Washington's cherry culture.

We must also not forget that Washington's wife was named Martha and one of Nibley's daugthers was also named Martha. Evidence for the Nibley being Washington abounds!


MarkJ
If you were an ancient scribe, what material would you use?
Romans used lead sheets for short notes and curses, but not surprisingly, did not use metal for longer works or documents, although they certainly had the supplies of metal to do so. Why would anyone use metal for long documents when there are many other better materials around?

Let's see..the Egyptians used papyrus, which was plentiful and easy to manufacture. It is also durable - in the dry climate there many manuscripts have survived for thousands of years.

Or if you were in the Babylonian neck of the woods you would use clay tablets. Again, mud is plentiful and easy to work with.

Medieval Europeans used parchment, which also has stood up very well for close to a thousand years. Not as cheap or easy to manufacture as mud or plant based writing materials, but sheep skins are not that hard to find.

But gold or brass??? If you were an ancient scribe and wanted to be sure your message survived, you would pick something that was cheap and durable. A cheap, durable material puts the value in the content, not the medium. It is easy to produce so multiple copies can be made. But because gold is hard to come by, has high intrinsic value, and is physically akward to move and handle, putting written material on gold sheets is almost a guarantee that the message is not going to survive.

There are very good reasons why the (real) ancient world did not use metal plates for documentation. Maybe selling a "Golden Bible" sounded a lot easier than "Clay Bible." Gold is sexy.


robertb
Re: If you were an ancient scribe, what material would you use?
Treasure hunter Smith made up the story about the gold plates to impress his fellow money diggers and then he was stuck with it, I suspect. He probably wished he had made up a story about a book written on papyrus (oh, wait, we have the Book of Abraham), but no one was paying him to dig for papyrus! You're right, gold is sexy.

steve benson
These comparisons, however, tend to fall apart at some point. George Washington could not tell a lie. Joseph Smith told all kinds of lies. 


canadianfriend
Re: I, Nephi, Having Been Born of Bulgarian Parents: Desperate Mopologists Claim Ancient Bulgarian Gold-Plate Find Proves Truth of 19th-Century Book of Mormon Fairy Tale
"The label "Golden Bible" actually predates the Book of Mormon, as legends of such an artifact existed in Canada and upstate New York while Joseph Smith was growing up in Vermont."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Book_of_Mormon


xyz
LOL for this whole string!
Thanks for the laugh!


Chicken'n'Backpacks
Re: I, Nephi, Having Been Born of Bulgarian Parents: Desperate Mopologists Claim Ancient Bulgarian Gold-Plate Find Proves Truth of 19th-Century Book of Mormon Fairy Tale
"Thousands of Nephite Artifacts Unearthed While Digging Erie Canal!"

Oh, sorry, that was a headline I didn't see somewhere

"Thousands of Nephite Artifacts Unearthed While Digging Panama Canal!"

Oops, sorry, that was another one I didn't see.


steve benson
"Tens of Thousands of Ex-Mormons Created While LDS Church Digs Its Own Grave". 


bc
Re: I, Nephi, Having Been Born of Bulgarian Parents: Desperate Mopologists Claim Ancient Bulgarian Gold-Plate Find Proves Truth of 19th-Century Book of Mormon Fairy Tale
"The world's oldest multiple-page book"

Silly scientists - everyone knows that Brass Plates were around loooong before that.

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"