Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>pandora Mar. 2013</p>\n<p>I visited the Asian Art Museum in SF today to see the Terracotta Warriors exhibit. It was amazing. There were swords, things for horses and chariots, beautiful warriors and armor. Even a small gold belt buckle was on display which made me think about all the small day to day things that remain long after the people who used them are gone. All of these artifacts were from around 200 bc or 600 years before the great battle at the hill cumorah.</p>\n<p>I\'m still waiting to see the traveling exhibit of ancient Nephite and Lamanite artifacts. Anyone have the dates for that?</p>\n<hr />\nUncle Dale<br />\nRe: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind<br />\nAccording to one school of Mormon apologetics, the artifacts<br />\nleft by the Jaredites, Mulekites and Lehites are essentially<br />\nindistinguishable from Amerindian relics -- nobody today<br />\nwould be able to detect the very minor differences.\n<p>Yet another school of LDS polemics insisted that we must first<br />\nof all \"look under every rock\" before we can say that no<br />\nNephite-Lamanite remains are to be found in the Americas.</p>\n<p>I don\'t have the time or inclination to go lifting up every<br />\nstone on the continent, simply to uncover a vast array of<br />\nancient tools, refuse, bones, crop remains, etc., that the<br />\nMormons are going to tell me MAY or MAY NOT be Book of<br />\nMormon proofs.</p>\n<p>Looks like the LDS scholars (?) win again.</p>\n<p>UD</p>\n<hr />\narchytas<br />\nRe: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind<br />\nI\'m impressed by how much Roman stuff is leftover in Britain.\n<hr />\n<p>pandora<br />\nRe: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind<br />\nYour post gave me an idea. Why doesn\'t the church divide the United States and Mexico and have the members look under all the rocks. If my math is right (which it might not be math not being my strong suit) each member would need to search a little under half a square mile. They could find all the swords and horses and we could stop bugging them about it. This would be a great use of time for all the extra missionaries. Imagine how many people would join the church with a little scientific proof. Could mean big dollar signs for the TSCC. The church should be a little embarrassed that they didn\'t think of this idea first seems almost obvious.</p>\n<hr />\nInfinite Dreams<br />\nThe Roman baths in Bath is one of the coolest historical sites I\'ve ever visited.&nbsp;\n<hr />\n<p>sonoma<br />\nRe: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind<br />\nwhen i lived in france and traveled all over europe i saw the remnants of roman rule in most countries, and i never even had to lift a rock...</p>\n<hr />\n<p>bona dea<br />\nRe: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind<br />\nI collect ancient coins and small artifacts. They are so common that even a poor retired teacher can afford the cheaper ones</p>\n<hr />\npandora<br />\nRe: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind<br />\nSomeone told me that holding your hand in a cup shape during the temple was because the first temple goers would be holding small oil lamps. Evidently they are everywhere because they are pretty cheap.I used to really want one:)\n<p><a href=\"http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ancient-Judean-Israel-Jerusalmen-Oil-Lamp-100-AD-Israel-Roman-Bible-Artifact-/181105773072?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&amp;hash=item2a2abeca10\" title=\"http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ancient-Judean-Israel-Jerusalmen-Oil-Lamp-100-AD-Israel-Roman-Bible-Artifact-/181105773072?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&amp;hash=item2a2abeca10\">http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ancient-Judean-Israel-Jerusalmen-Oil-Lamp-100-AD...</a></p>\n<hr />\nbona dea<br />\nRe: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind<br />\nI have several. You can get plain ones for.under 100 dollars\n<hr />\nStray Mutt<br />\nYou forgot the claim that God removed all the evidence to test our faith.&nbsp;\n<hr />\n<p>charles, buddhist punk<br />\nRe: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind<br />\npandora Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------<br />\n&gt; Someone told me that holding your hand in a cup<br />\n&gt; shape during the temple was because the first<br />\n&gt; temple goers would be holding small oil lamps.</p>\n<p>But the cupping of hands was in preparation for disemboweling or otherwise maiming one\'s self. How did holding an oil lamp figure into it? You maim yourself and then burn your skin with the hot oil? I\'m confused and so is the person who told you this.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>forbiddencokedrinker<br />\nRe: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind<br />\nHe probably went through the temple after the change. So it was in preparation for disemboweling yourself? That actually makes sense, in that it fits. None of those stupid signs made any sense, but I guess that is because they took out half of them for guys like me.</p>\n<hr />\nforbiddencokedrinker<br />\nRe: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind<br />\nFunny how some apologist will say that you can not distinguish Nephite artifacts from Native American ones, but scientist can actually distinguish a lot of artifacts based on tribe or nation. For example, Incan, Mayan, and Aztak all have their own little nuances, and even the more primitive stuff of the plains Indians bear clues as to which tribe made it, or when.\n<hr />\nNole Girl<br />\nRe: The Roman baths in Bath is one of the coolest historical sites I\'ve ever visited.<br />\nAgree 100 percent! I loved that they had a companion track that kids could appreciate, and even the audioguide with Jeremy Irons narration was awesome. Most of those are duller than dirt.\n<hr />\nRPackham<br />\nCompare the Nephites in America and the Romans in Europe<br />\n\"Romans and Nephites\" <a href=\"http://packham.n4m.org/romans.htm\" title=\"http://packham.n4m.org/romans.htm\">http://packham.n4m.org/romans.htm</a>\n<p>Not many people notice that there are quite a few similarities between the history of the ancient Romans and the story of the Nephites in the Book of Mormon.</p>\n<p>Their stories cover a similar stretch of ancient history: The Romans from the founding of the city in 753 BC until its conquest by barbarian invaders in 476 AD; Nephite history beginning ca 600 BC and ending with the annihilation of the Nephites by the barbarian Lamanites about 400 AD.</p>\n<p>Both peoples are descended from a small party of emigrants escaping the destruction of a royal city: Aeneas from Troy\'s destruction by the Greeks; Lehi from Jerusalem\'s destruction by the Babylonians.</p>\n<p>Both people\'s founding ancestors were led by deity to a new land: Aeneas by Venus and Apollo; Lehi by Jehovah.</p>\n<p>Both people\'s founding ancestors came to their new homeland by ship.</p>\n<p>Both peoples took their name from one of a pair of brothers from whom they descended: The Romans from Romulus, brother of Remus; the Nephites from Nephi, brother of Sam. And the Lamanites took their name from Laman, brother of Lemuel (the less righteous brothers of Nephi and Sam).</p>\n<p>Both peoples spread out eventually to occupy very large territories: The Romans all the lands bordering the Mediterranean, as well as Britain, southern Europe and the Balkans, from Spain to Mesopotamia; the Nephites covered \"the face of the land\" (Jarom 1:8, Helaman 11:20) both \"northward and southward\" and from sea to sea.</p>\n<p>At about the same time in their history, a two-century period of peace reigned among them: For the Romans the Pax Romana, ca 27 BC to ca 180 AD; for the Nephites, the period described in 4 Nephi, from ca 33 AD to ca 245 AD.</p>\n<p>Both periods of peace began about the time of the appearance of Jesus Christ in their land.</p>\n<p>Both cultures knew metal coins, shipbuilding, agriculture based on wheat, barley, cattle, goats, sheep and \"flocks.\" Both waged war with similar weapons and armor (steel swords, bow and arrow, spears, body armor, chariots and horses).</p>\n<p>Of course there are also many differences in these two stories, but the similarities are striking. And I am not claiming that these similarities \"prove\" anything at all, or that they are anything more than interesting coincidences.</p>\n<p>If there is anything that this comparison proves, it is the one tremendous difference between the two stories, a difference which casts huge doubt upon the accuracy of the Nephite story. And that difference can be seen in museums and archaeological sites all over Europe: The Romans left behind millions of artifacts, from everyday coins, kitchen utensils and pots to glorious art and architecture. Their historical record is also confirmed by hundreds of independent contemporary written records.</p>\n<p>But the Nephites? Nothing even vaguely similar. Nothing. No museum has any Nephite artifact. No art. No architecture. No records other than the Book of Mormon, which is accepted as history by not a single non-Mormon historian.</p>\n<p>Why not? One would think that the archaeological and historical record of two great ancient peoples, contemporaries, spanning a thousand years, would leave similar signs of their existence behind. No one doubts the existence of the Romans for that thousand years, or the essential accuracy of their history. Everyone but the Mormons themselves disbelieves the story of the Nephites.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>jacob<br />\nRe: Compare the Nephites in America and the Romans in Europe<br />\nI think from an apologetic standpoint the Etruscans are more comparable to the Nephites. Many apologists are more than happy to say that the already identified Central and South American civilizations are comprised of Lamanites and the Nephites aren\'t found because the Lamanite/Mayan/Aztec/Inca wiped out the evidence of their existence. The Latins conquered/absorbed every thing about the Etruscans similar to what the Nephite\'s enemies did to them.</p>\n<p>That said even if our working knowledge of much of the Etruscan lifestyle is lacking, there is abundant evidence of their existence. Even today the very name of Tuscany is a linguistic marker of their existence.</p>\n<hr />\nUncle Dale<br />\nRe: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind\n<p>I once had an extended argument with a Mormon apologist,<br />\nwhich may be preserved in some on-line message archive<br />\nsomewhere.</p>\n<p>Anyway, my basic premise was that Nephite maize should<br />\nexhibit certain characteristics that would distinguish<br />\nit from Mohawk maize or Shoshone maize, or Aztec maize,<br />\nor Andean maize -- that by looking at the fossil pollen<br />\nof maize cultivation in various areas in the Americas,<br />\nwe should be able to isolate the location of the vast<br />\nfields of corn, planted and harvested by Nephites using<br />\nOld World animals, farming techniques, tools, food<br />\npreservation methods, etc.</p>\n<p>My opponent had a simple answer -- wherever the Nephites<br />\nlived, they simply adopted the farming techniques and<br />\nmaize varieties already in place among the Indians who<br />\nhad previously migrated all the way over from Siberia.</p>\n<p>So -- we can\'t distinguish Nephite corn from Indian corn.</p>\n<p>When I asked about the same question, regarding wheat,<br />\nmy opponent piped up: \"So, tell me, where in the Americas<br />\nhave archaeologists discovered any preColumbian fossil<br />\nwheat pollen, or remains of wheat farming?\"</p>\n<p>I answered \"nowhere,\" and his reply was that he could not<br />\nbe expected to discuss theoretical historical issues, for<br />\nwhich I was not willing to offer up any evidence.</p>\n<p>In his mind THAT proved that the Nephites had once carried<br />\non a vast and lengthy wheat cultivation in the Americas --<br />\nbecause I could NOT provide any evidence for that discussion.</p>\n<p>Mormons!<br />\nWorst thinkers on the planet!</p>\n<p>UD</p>\n<hr />\ngentlestrength<br />\nRe: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind<br />\nThis truly has become one of the most clear and easily identified frauds of the Book of Mormon. The largest battle in the history of the area now called New York was not conducted near the Hill Cumorah, and there were no plates of gold, and there was no zombie named Moroni that gave the plates to Joseph Smith.\n<p>Moms and dads, stop teaching this garbage to your kids.</p>\n<p>It\'s fiction, just like The Lord of the Rings, so discussing the BoM and its\' creation as anything other than a work of fiction is contemptible. Unlike The Lord of the Rings, the author wasn\'t trying to sell it as non-fiction and somehow correct.</p>\n<p>So in verse 37, chapter 4 we read Gandolf killed the dragon, and from this we learned.......</p>\n<hr />\n<p>dot<br />\nRe: You forgot the claim that God removed all the evidence to test our faith.<br />\nOr my favorite: the lamanites gathered up every sword, shield, chariot &amp; wheel, wheat pollen, etc, and destroyed them or buried them. Because they had nothing better to do, and no other plans for such useful objects. They hated the lamanites so much that they chose a life of hardship hauling stuff themselves (instead of using the wheel), and using clubs instead of swords.</p>\n<p>It\'s amazing the lamanites thrived at all, being as stupid as all that.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>fiona64<br />\nRe: You forgot the claim that God removed all the evidence to test our faith.<br />\nNever mind that, if they had been buried, they\'d be found.</p>\n<p>&lt;-- Anthropology major who took archaeology classes as well.</p>\n<hr />\nfiona64<br />\nRe: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind<br />\narchytas Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------<br />\n&gt; I\'m impressed by how much Roman stuff is leftover<br />\n&gt; in Britain.\n<p>I just got back from a visit to Rome itself. Really pretty amazing.</p>\n<hr />\nRichard the Bad<br />\nRe: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind<br />\nYep. Humans are truly sloppy beings.\n<hr />\nChicken N. Backpacks<br />\nRe: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind<br />\nGandolf...? Dragon...? Spoiler!!!!!!!\n<p>yeah, well, like I couldn\'t a\'guessed it.....</p>\n<hr />\nsonoma<br />\nUD that is the perfect mormon argument!!!<br />\ni can\'t stop laughing!!\n<hr />\nbearlaker<br />\nRe: You forgot the claim that God removed all the evidence to test our faith.<br />\nStray Mutt Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------<br />\n&gt; n/t<br />\nAmen.\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1493422979, expire = 1493509379, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:cb8f51c65f113c0235df705cddc1d0c9' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

pandora Mar. 2013

I visited the Asian Art Museum in SF today to see the Terracotta Warriors exhibit. It was amazing. There were swords, things for horses and chariots, beautiful warriors and armor. Even a small gold belt buckle was on display which made me think about all the small day to day things that remain long after the people who used them are gone. All of these artifacts were from around 200 bc or 600 years before the great battle at the hill cumorah.

I'm still waiting to see the traveling exhibit of ancient Nephite and Lamanite artifacts. Anyone have the dates for that?


Uncle Dale
Re: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind
According to one school of Mormon apologetics, the artifacts
left by the Jaredites, Mulekites and Lehites are essentially
indistinguishable from Amerindian relics -- nobody today
would be able to detect the very minor differences.

Yet another school of LDS polemics insisted that we must first
of all "look under every rock" before we can say that no
Nephite-Lamanite remains are to be found in the Americas.

I don't have the time or inclination to go lifting up every
stone on the continent, simply to uncover a vast array of
ancient tools, refuse, bones, crop remains, etc., that the
Mormons are going to tell me MAY or MAY NOT be Book of
Mormon proofs.

Looks like the LDS scholars (?) win again.

UD


archytas
Re: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind
I'm impressed by how much Roman stuff is leftover in Britain.

pandora
Re: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind
Your post gave me an idea. Why doesn't the church divide the United States and Mexico and have the members look under all the rocks. If my math is right (which it might not be math not being my strong suit) each member would need to search a little under half a square mile. They could find all the swords and horses and we could stop bugging them about it. This would be a great use of time for all the extra missionaries. Imagine how many people would join the church with a little scientific proof. Could mean big dollar signs for the TSCC. The church should be a little embarrassed that they didn't think of this idea first seems almost obvious.


Infinite Dreams
The Roman baths in Bath is one of the coolest historical sites I've ever visited. 

sonoma
Re: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind
when i lived in france and traveled all over europe i saw the remnants of roman rule in most countries, and i never even had to lift a rock...


bona dea
Re: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind
I collect ancient coins and small artifacts. They are so common that even a poor retired teacher can afford the cheaper ones


pandora
Re: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind
Someone told me that holding your hand in a cup shape during the temple was because the first temple goers would be holding small oil lamps. Evidently they are everywhere because they are pretty cheap.I used to really want one:)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ancient-Judean-Israel-Jerusalmen-Oil-Lamp-100-AD...


bona dea
Re: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind
I have several. You can get plain ones for.under 100 dollars
Stray Mutt
You forgot the claim that God removed all the evidence to test our faith. 

charles, buddhist punk
Re: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind
pandora Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone told me that holding your hand in a cup
> shape during the temple was because the first
> temple goers would be holding small oil lamps.

But the cupping of hands was in preparation for disemboweling or otherwise maiming one's self. How did holding an oil lamp figure into it? You maim yourself and then burn your skin with the hot oil? I'm confused and so is the person who told you this.


forbiddencokedrinker
Re: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind
He probably went through the temple after the change. So it was in preparation for disemboweling yourself? That actually makes sense, in that it fits. None of those stupid signs made any sense, but I guess that is because they took out half of them for guys like me.


forbiddencokedrinker
Re: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind
Funny how some apologist will say that you can not distinguish Nephite artifacts from Native American ones, but scientist can actually distinguish a lot of artifacts based on tribe or nation. For example, Incan, Mayan, and Aztak all have their own little nuances, and even the more primitive stuff of the plains Indians bear clues as to which tribe made it, or when.
Nole Girl
Re: The Roman baths in Bath is one of the coolest historical sites I've ever visited.
Agree 100 percent! I loved that they had a companion track that kids could appreciate, and even the audioguide with Jeremy Irons narration was awesome. Most of those are duller than dirt.
RPackham
Compare the Nephites in America and the Romans in Europe
"Romans and Nephites" http://packham.n4m.org/romans.htm

Not many people notice that there are quite a few similarities between the history of the ancient Romans and the story of the Nephites in the Book of Mormon.

Their stories cover a similar stretch of ancient history: The Romans from the founding of the city in 753 BC until its conquest by barbarian invaders in 476 AD; Nephite history beginning ca 600 BC and ending with the annihilation of the Nephites by the barbarian Lamanites about 400 AD.

Both peoples are descended from a small party of emigrants escaping the destruction of a royal city: Aeneas from Troy's destruction by the Greeks; Lehi from Jerusalem's destruction by the Babylonians.

Both people's founding ancestors were led by deity to a new land: Aeneas by Venus and Apollo; Lehi by Jehovah.

Both people's founding ancestors came to their new homeland by ship.

Both peoples took their name from one of a pair of brothers from whom they descended: The Romans from Romulus, brother of Remus; the Nephites from Nephi, brother of Sam. And the Lamanites took their name from Laman, brother of Lemuel (the less righteous brothers of Nephi and Sam).

Both peoples spread out eventually to occupy very large territories: The Romans all the lands bordering the Mediterranean, as well as Britain, southern Europe and the Balkans, from Spain to Mesopotamia; the Nephites covered "the face of the land" (Jarom 1:8, Helaman 11:20) both "northward and southward" and from sea to sea.

At about the same time in their history, a two-century period of peace reigned among them: For the Romans the Pax Romana, ca 27 BC to ca 180 AD; for the Nephites, the period described in 4 Nephi, from ca 33 AD to ca 245 AD.

Both periods of peace began about the time of the appearance of Jesus Christ in their land.

Both cultures knew metal coins, shipbuilding, agriculture based on wheat, barley, cattle, goats, sheep and "flocks." Both waged war with similar weapons and armor (steel swords, bow and arrow, spears, body armor, chariots and horses).

Of course there are also many differences in these two stories, but the similarities are striking. And I am not claiming that these similarities "prove" anything at all, or that they are anything more than interesting coincidences.

If there is anything that this comparison proves, it is the one tremendous difference between the two stories, a difference which casts huge doubt upon the accuracy of the Nephite story. And that difference can be seen in museums and archaeological sites all over Europe: The Romans left behind millions of artifacts, from everyday coins, kitchen utensils and pots to glorious art and architecture. Their historical record is also confirmed by hundreds of independent contemporary written records.

But the Nephites? Nothing even vaguely similar. Nothing. No museum has any Nephite artifact. No art. No architecture. No records other than the Book of Mormon, which is accepted as history by not a single non-Mormon historian.

Why not? One would think that the archaeological and historical record of two great ancient peoples, contemporaries, spanning a thousand years, would leave similar signs of their existence behind. No one doubts the existence of the Romans for that thousand years, or the essential accuracy of their history. Everyone but the Mormons themselves disbelieves the story of the Nephites.


jacob
Re: Compare the Nephites in America and the Romans in Europe
I think from an apologetic standpoint the Etruscans are more comparable to the Nephites. Many apologists are more than happy to say that the already identified Central and South American civilizations are comprised of Lamanites and the Nephites aren't found because the Lamanite/Mayan/Aztec/Inca wiped out the evidence of their existence. The Latins conquered/absorbed every thing about the Etruscans similar to what the Nephite's enemies did to them.

That said even if our working knowledge of much of the Etruscan lifestyle is lacking, there is abundant evidence of their existence. Even today the very name of Tuscany is a linguistic marker of their existence.


Uncle Dale
Re: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind

I once had an extended argument with a Mormon apologist,
which may be preserved in some on-line message archive
somewhere.

Anyway, my basic premise was that Nephite maize should
exhibit certain characteristics that would distinguish
it from Mohawk maize or Shoshone maize, or Aztec maize,
or Andean maize -- that by looking at the fossil pollen
of maize cultivation in various areas in the Americas,
we should be able to isolate the location of the vast
fields of corn, planted and harvested by Nephites using
Old World animals, farming techniques, tools, food
preservation methods, etc.

My opponent had a simple answer -- wherever the Nephites
lived, they simply adopted the farming techniques and
maize varieties already in place among the Indians who
had previously migrated all the way over from Siberia.

So -- we can't distinguish Nephite corn from Indian corn.

When I asked about the same question, regarding wheat,
my opponent piped up: "So, tell me, where in the Americas
have archaeologists discovered any preColumbian fossil
wheat pollen, or remains of wheat farming?"

I answered "nowhere," and his reply was that he could not
be expected to discuss theoretical historical issues, for
which I was not willing to offer up any evidence.

In his mind THAT proved that the Nephites had once carried
on a vast and lengthy wheat cultivation in the Americas --
because I could NOT provide any evidence for that discussion.

Mormons!
Worst thinkers on the planet!

UD


gentlestrength
Re: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind
This truly has become one of the most clear and easily identified frauds of the Book of Mormon. The largest battle in the history of the area now called New York was not conducted near the Hill Cumorah, and there were no plates of gold, and there was no zombie named Moroni that gave the plates to Joseph Smith.

Moms and dads, stop teaching this garbage to your kids.

It's fiction, just like The Lord of the Rings, so discussing the BoM and its' creation as anything other than a work of fiction is contemptible. Unlike The Lord of the Rings, the author wasn't trying to sell it as non-fiction and somehow correct.

So in verse 37, chapter 4 we read Gandolf killed the dragon, and from this we learned.......


dot
Re: You forgot the claim that God removed all the evidence to test our faith.
Or my favorite: the lamanites gathered up every sword, shield, chariot & wheel, wheat pollen, etc, and destroyed them or buried them. Because they had nothing better to do, and no other plans for such useful objects. They hated the lamanites so much that they chose a life of hardship hauling stuff themselves (instead of using the wheel), and using clubs instead of swords.

It's amazing the lamanites thrived at all, being as stupid as all that.


fiona64
Re: You forgot the claim that God removed all the evidence to test our faith.
Never mind that, if they had been buried, they'd be found.

<-- Anthropology major who took archaeology classes as well.


fiona64
Re: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind
archytas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm impressed by how much Roman stuff is leftover
> in Britain.

I just got back from a visit to Rome itself. Really pretty amazing.


Richard the Bad
Re: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind
Yep. Humans are truly sloppy beings.
Chicken N. Backpacks
Re: Turns out advanced ancient civilizations leave a lot of stuff behind
Gandolf...? Dragon...? Spoiler!!!!!!!

yeah, well, like I couldn't a'guessed it.....


sonoma
UD that is the perfect mormon argument!!!
i can't stop laughing!!
bearlaker
Re: You forgot the claim that God removed all the evidence to test our faith.
Stray Mutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> n/t
Amen.

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"