Book of Abraham essay unleashed

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>Argonaut Jul 2014</p>\n<p><a href=\"https://www.lds.org/topics/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham\" title=\"https://www.lds.org/topics/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham\">https://www.lds.org/topics/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-ab...</a></p>\n<hr />\nfudley<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed\n<p>\" The relationship between those fragments and the text we have today is largely a matter of conjecture.\"</p>\n<p>What a clucking joke.</p>\n<hr />\nladell<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed\n<p>Surprise, facts be damned, the church is still true.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Xyandro<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed</p>\n<p>I see they don\'t mention Facsimile 3, the single biggest proof it\'s all a lie.</p>\n<hr />\nsherlock<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed\n<p>....Phelps apparently viewed Joseph Smith as uniquely capable of understanding the Egyptian characters: “As no one could translate these writings,” he told his wife, “they were presented to President Smith. He soon knew what they were”</p>\n<p>I don\'t recall Smith correctly proclaiming the writings to be common funeral texts?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>madalice<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed</p>\n<p>It\'s THEIR insanely nutty scripture, and they\'re sticking to it.<br />\nThey\'re going to stick with the same lies and the same smoke and mirrors games.</p>\n<p>Apparently after reading threads online about people who have left over the BoA fairy tales, they\'ve decided their best defense is to stick with it, and try like crazy to make crazy look sane.</p>\n<p>Good luck with that one. They can cling to their insanity all they want. It\'s still insanity.</p>\n<hr />\nLasvegasrichard<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed\n<p>It\'s amazing how once again they try their damnedest to stretch 1 + 1 to come out to 3 . They can argue these falsehoods until the cows come home , but until they make Osiris miraculously turn into Abraham , the lying is overwhelming .</p>\n<hr />\nsherlock<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed\n<p>\"It is likely futile to assess Joseph’s ability to translate papyri when we now have only a fraction of the papyri he had in his possession.....The loss of a significant portion of the papyri means the relationship of the papyri to the published text cannot be settled conclusively by reference to the papyri.\"</p>\n<p>Complete and utter bollocks. On the contrary, if you just have a small fraction of the translation (facsimilies) you can tell very quickly that it\'s fraudulent. It makes no difference whatsoever if there\'s 5 million miles of missing papyri, the stuff we DO HAVE is 100% wrong.</p>\n<hr />\nChump<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed\n<p>\"Only small fragments of the long papyrus scrolls once in Joseph Smith’s possession exist today.\"</p>\n<p>They make it sound like they only have loose pieces when they have most of it. There is no evidence that there were ever \"long\" scrolls in Joe\'s possession. If the Abraham scroll really stretched from one room to another, why is the BoA only a few pages? Why did Joe publish an incomplete translation?</p>\n<hr />\nElder What\'s-his-face<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed\n<p>Okay, well, ummm, why don\'t they use it besides one or two verses that tell about a few great and noble intelligences?</p>\n<p>Why don\'t they teach and expound upon Abraham teaching the Pharoah about astronomy in General Conference?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>armtothetriangle<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed</p>\n<p>Canopics jars</p>\n<hr />\nfudley<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed\n<p>(To be a Mormon you must believe this and never research it) \"It is likely futile to assess Joseph’s ability to translate papyri when we now have only a fraction of the papyri he had in his possession.....The loss of a significant portion of the papyri means the relationship of the papyri to the published text cannot be settled conclusively by reference to the papyri.\"</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Chump<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed</p>\n<p>At least the essay admits this:</p>\n<p>\"The relationship of these documents to the book of Abraham is not fully understood. Neither the rules nor the translations in the grammar book correspond to those recognized by Egyptologists today.\"</p>\n<p>There\'s enough info in the essay to prove to any thinking individual that Joe was full of $#!+.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Xyandro<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed</p>\n<p>It\'s awesome they mention the grammar, that Smith wrote it, and that it\'s wrong. :)</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Brother Of Jerry<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed<br />\nHey, LDS Inc:</p>\n<p>The fragments we have are 2,000 years too young to have been touched by Abraham. The hieroglyphics are also consistent with a time period shortly before the time of Christ. Hieroglyphics were considerably different in 2,000 BCE.</p>\n<p>A claim that we don\'t have the entire document doesn\'t affect either of those facts in the least. Abraham never touched them, and JS didn\'t translate them. He made it all up.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>sonoma<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed</p>\n<p>A great essay for the uber faithful who will never encounter it, as it will be buried deep in the recesses of LDS.org.</p>\n<p>For everyone else it\'s another smoking gun indicating that the 15 Mouthpieces of God, (who where too cowardly to put their names to this drivel) KNOW it\'s all a fraud, and do whatever is necessary to perpetuate it.</p>\n<p>Bye bye, Mormon cult.</p>\n<hr />\nlondon\n<p>Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed<br />\n\"Eyewitnesses spoke of “a long roll” or multiple “rolls” of papyrus.32\"</p>\n<p>Witnesses are only creditable when they support Church claims. Some witnesses, like all the excommunicated members of the 12, can be credible at times and not credible in others.</p>\n<hr />\nalreadygone<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed<br />\n\"The veracity and value of the book of Abraham cannot be settled by scholarly debate concerning the book’s translation and historicity. The book’s status as scripture lies in the eternal truths it teaches and the powerful spirit it conveys\"\n<p>Sorry guys. It\'s been settled since Egyptian could be translated.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>WinksWinks</p>\n<p>Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed</p>\n<p>What movie was that that introduced canopic jars to audiences everywhere? Fairly recent, five years-ish, the Mummy? I think I\'m wrong about the title, but someone pointed out it was a good movie to recommend for believers children to see. Planting seeds...<br />\nI need to watch it and get my sister to show it to her kids. &gt;:D</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Elder Berry<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed</p>\n<p>Claim ignorance and ineffability when confronted by truths outside your control and shout out your controlled truths as if they were more important.</p>\n<p>And Mormon defenders think bitter exmos harp about \"blind obedience\" and brainwashing as if it weren\'t true.</p>\n<hr />\nimaworkinonit<br />\nYou don\'t need the papyri at all to assess JS\'s ability to translate.\n<p>All you need are the facsimiles. He \"translated\" the writing on them. Either he got it right, or he didn\'t. Hint: He didn\'t.</p>\n<p>They are using the missing papyri to distract people from that fact.</p>\n<hr />\nAnnony<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed\n<p>I am a technical writer by trade. This essay would be taken apart by any peer review. It belongs on the same shelf with any other political apology.</p>\n<p>They admit that the points that may prove them wrong, but introduce doubt.</p>\n<p>They avoid the big, real topic.</p>\n<p>They use language to minimize their detractors (fragments, not consistent, not mentioned, no clear connection)</p>\n<p>They use suggestive language to evoke evidence or proof, where none exist.\"a careful study, evidence suggests...consistent with..Joseph never said... \"</p>\n<p>This whole thing is a hack job, a clear attempt to muddy the waters. What it does reveal, and rather clearly, is the mindset to deceive and con people.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>knowitsfalse<br />\nRe: You don\'t need the papyri at all to assess JS\'s ability to translate.</p>\n<p>Exactly! Just ignore everything except the facsimiles...they\'re all it takes.</p>\n<hr />\nChump<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed\n<p>That\'s what I was thinking. For those wondering whether the church is run by honest yet deluded men or deceivers, this should answer that question once and for all.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>sherlock<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed</p>\n<p>So if the gist of the essay is to recognise it\'s true due to it\'s content, let\'s consider the following from chapter 1:</p>\n<p>23 The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden;<br />\n24 When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land.</p>\n<p>Since this so laughable and absurdly wide of the mark, does that mean that we can discard everything else in the book including the often-quotes \'intelligences\' verses? If not, why should you pick and choose? You can\'t have it both ways.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>michaelm<br />\nThe faithful members will tearfully say \"these aren\'t the droids we\'re looking for\" while the audience rolls in laughter.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Chicken N. Backpacks<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed<br />\nI love all the footnotes from a wide variety of sources outside Mormonism.</p>\n<p>What\'s that? Oooohh........never mind...</p>\n<hr />\ntwistedsister<br />\nRe: Book of Abraham essay unleashed\n<p>It was like trying to read gobbledygook. Like wading through thigh high mud. A bunch of nonsense words and smoke and mirrors...I consider myself to have a high level of reading comprehension, but I didn\'t know what they were yammering on about half the time.</p>\n<p>I love how they buried, deep in the essay, little bits about the \"translation\" not agreeing with experts, and how not much is known about the method of translation.</p>\n<p>Don\'t their brains hurt after writing all that nonsense, AND doing the mental gymnastics in order to make themselves believe it??</p>\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1493450497, expire = 1493536897, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:b07d0f22e1e0c9b0217fc782f58b6a4f' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

Argonaut Jul 2014

https://www.lds.org/topics/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-ab...


fudley
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

" The relationship between those fragments and the text we have today is largely a matter of conjecture."

What a clucking joke.


ladell
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

Surprise, facts be damned, the church is still true.


Xyandro
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

I see they don't mention Facsimile 3, the single biggest proof it's all a lie.


sherlock
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

....Phelps apparently viewed Joseph Smith as uniquely capable of understanding the Egyptian characters: “As no one could translate these writings,” he told his wife, “they were presented to President Smith. He soon knew what they were”

I don't recall Smith correctly proclaiming the writings to be common funeral texts?


madalice
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

It's THEIR insanely nutty scripture, and they're sticking to it.
They're going to stick with the same lies and the same smoke and mirrors games.

Apparently after reading threads online about people who have left over the BoA fairy tales, they've decided their best defense is to stick with it, and try like crazy to make crazy look sane.

Good luck with that one. They can cling to their insanity all they want. It's still insanity.


Lasvegasrichard
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

It's amazing how once again they try their damnedest to stretch 1 + 1 to come out to 3 . They can argue these falsehoods until the cows come home , but until they make Osiris miraculously turn into Abraham , the lying is overwhelming .


sherlock
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

"It is likely futile to assess Joseph’s ability to translate papyri when we now have only a fraction of the papyri he had in his possession.....The loss of a significant portion of the papyri means the relationship of the papyri to the published text cannot be settled conclusively by reference to the papyri."

Complete and utter bollocks. On the contrary, if you just have a small fraction of the translation (facsimilies) you can tell very quickly that it's fraudulent. It makes no difference whatsoever if there's 5 million miles of missing papyri, the stuff we DO HAVE is 100% wrong.


Chump
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

"Only small fragments of the long papyrus scrolls once in Joseph Smith’s possession exist today."

They make it sound like they only have loose pieces when they have most of it. There is no evidence that there were ever "long" scrolls in Joe's possession. If the Abraham scroll really stretched from one room to another, why is the BoA only a few pages? Why did Joe publish an incomplete translation?


Elder What's-his-face
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

Okay, well, ummm, why don't they use it besides one or two verses that tell about a few great and noble intelligences?

Why don't they teach and expound upon Abraham teaching the Pharoah about astronomy in General Conference?


armtothetriangle
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

Canopics jars


fudley
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

(To be a Mormon you must believe this and never research it) "It is likely futile to assess Joseph’s ability to translate papyri when we now have only a fraction of the papyri he had in his possession.....The loss of a significant portion of the papyri means the relationship of the papyri to the published text cannot be settled conclusively by reference to the papyri."


Chump
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

At least the essay admits this:

"The relationship of these documents to the book of Abraham is not fully understood. Neither the rules nor the translations in the grammar book correspond to those recognized by Egyptologists today."

There's enough info in the essay to prove to any thinking individual that Joe was full of $#!+.


Xyandro
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

It's awesome they mention the grammar, that Smith wrote it, and that it's wrong. :)


Brother Of Jerry
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed
Hey, LDS Inc:

The fragments we have are 2,000 years too young to have been touched by Abraham. The hieroglyphics are also consistent with a time period shortly before the time of Christ. Hieroglyphics were considerably different in 2,000 BCE.

A claim that we don't have the entire document doesn't affect either of those facts in the least. Abraham never touched them, and JS didn't translate them. He made it all up.


sonoma
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

A great essay for the uber faithful who will never encounter it, as it will be buried deep in the recesses of LDS.org.

For everyone else it's another smoking gun indicating that the 15 Mouthpieces of God, (who where too cowardly to put their names to this drivel) KNOW it's all a fraud, and do whatever is necessary to perpetuate it.

Bye bye, Mormon cult.


london

Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed
"Eyewitnesses spoke of “a long roll” or multiple “rolls” of papyrus.32"

Witnesses are only creditable when they support Church claims. Some witnesses, like all the excommunicated members of the 12, can be credible at times and not credible in others.


alreadygone
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed
"The veracity and value of the book of Abraham cannot be settled by scholarly debate concerning the book’s translation and historicity. The book’s status as scripture lies in the eternal truths it teaches and the powerful spirit it conveys"

Sorry guys. It's been settled since Egyptian could be translated.


WinksWinks

Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

What movie was that that introduced canopic jars to audiences everywhere? Fairly recent, five years-ish, the Mummy? I think I'm wrong about the title, but someone pointed out it was a good movie to recommend for believers children to see. Planting seeds...
I need to watch it and get my sister to show it to her kids. >:D


Elder Berry
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

Claim ignorance and ineffability when confronted by truths outside your control and shout out your controlled truths as if they were more important.

And Mormon defenders think bitter exmos harp about "blind obedience" and brainwashing as if it weren't true.


imaworkinonit
You don't need the papyri at all to assess JS's ability to translate.

All you need are the facsimiles. He "translated" the writing on them. Either he got it right, or he didn't. Hint: He didn't.

They are using the missing papyri to distract people from that fact.


Annony
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

I am a technical writer by trade. This essay would be taken apart by any peer review. It belongs on the same shelf with any other political apology.

They admit that the points that may prove them wrong, but introduce doubt.

They avoid the big, real topic.

They use language to minimize their detractors (fragments, not consistent, not mentioned, no clear connection)

They use suggestive language to evoke evidence or proof, where none exist."a careful study, evidence suggests...consistent with..Joseph never said... "

This whole thing is a hack job, a clear attempt to muddy the waters. What it does reveal, and rather clearly, is the mindset to deceive and con people.


knowitsfalse
Re: You don't need the papyri at all to assess JS's ability to translate.

Exactly! Just ignore everything except the facsimiles...they're all it takes.


Chump
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

That's what I was thinking. For those wondering whether the church is run by honest yet deluded men or deceivers, this should answer that question once and for all.


sherlock
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

So if the gist of the essay is to recognise it's true due to it's content, let's consider the following from chapter 1:

23 The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden;
24 When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land.

Since this so laughable and absurdly wide of the mark, does that mean that we can discard everything else in the book including the often-quotes 'intelligences' verses? If not, why should you pick and choose? You can't have it both ways.


michaelm
The faithful members will tearfully say "these aren't the droids we're looking for" while the audience rolls in laughter.


Chicken N. Backpacks
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed
I love all the footnotes from a wide variety of sources outside Mormonism.

What's that? Oooohh........never mind...


twistedsister
Re: Book of Abraham essay unleashed

It was like trying to read gobbledygook. Like wading through thigh high mud. A bunch of nonsense words and smoke and mirrors...I consider myself to have a high level of reading comprehension, but I didn't know what they were yammering on about half the time.

I love how they buried, deep in the essay, little bits about the "translation" not agreeing with experts, and how not much is known about the method of translation.

Don't their brains hurt after writing all that nonsense, AND doing the mental gymnastics in order to make themselves believe it??

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"