Book of Abraham Facsimiles 1,2 & 3

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>nlocnil Aug 2012</p>\n<p>**Book of Abraham Facsimiles Compared**</p>\n<p>Interpretation of Joseph Smith vs modern Egyptologist. In a visually appealing format for better understanding.</p>\n<p>Facsimile #1<br />\n<a href=\"http://www.afterallwecando.com/BOAcompared.jpg\" title=\"http://www.afterallwecando.com/BOAcompared.jpg\">http://www.afterallwecando.com/BOAcompared.jpg</a></p>\n<p>Facsimile #2<br />\n<a href=\"http://www.afterallwecando.com/BOAcomparedFac2.jpg\" title=\"http://www.afterallwecando.com/BOAcomparedFac2.jpg\">http://www.afterallwecando.com/BOAcomparedFac2.jpg</a></p>\n<p>Facsimile #3<br />\n<a href=\"http://www.afterallwecando.com/BOAcomparedFac3.jpg\" title=\"http://www.afterallwecando.com/BOAcomparedFac3.jpg\">http://www.afterallwecando.com/BOAcomparedFac3.jpg</a></p>\n<hr />\nAdmin note:\n<p><a href=\"http://www.kingtutshop.com/freeinfo/Canopic-Jars.htm\" title=\"http://www.kingtutshop.com/freeinfo/Canopic-Jars.htm\">http://www.kingtutshop.com/freeinfo/Canopic-Jars.htm</a> </p>\n<p>\"Canopic Jars were used by the ancient Egyptian during the rituals of mummification processes. These were used as containers in which to hold the internal organs of the deceased that was going to be mummified.</p>\n<p>The ancient Egyptians before mummifying their pharaohs and dead took out the internal soft organs. These organs contained a lot of fluid and could cause the body to putrefy and decompose quickly.</p>\n<p>The jars had lids or stoppers that were shaped as the head of one of the minor funerary deities known as the Four Sons of HORUS.\"</p>\n<p>The above discussing the very common Canopic jars was even in my daughter\'s high school history book. Just look up Canopic jars and compare to how Joseph Smith interpreted what they were in the Book of Abraham. That alone demonstrates the fraud of Smith. The absurdities he added is just icing on the cake.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Aaron Hines<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\n*facepalm*</p>\n<p>Joseph: This depicts Abraham in Egypt.<br />\nEgyptologist: It\'s a bleedin\' table, you git!</p>\n<hr />\n<p>moonbeam<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\nOne of my favorites. This just makes me shake my head... How can this be rationalized? He made it up! Repeat after me... He made it up!!</p>\n<hr />\nAaron Hines<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\nNo, he was \"inspired\" to write the actual Book of Abraham, even though the scroll has nothing to do with it. - Actual response from my TBM former friend.\n<p>Yeah, except he actually LABELED THESE DRAWINGS.</p>\n<p>Also great, how he blew off all the small words in #3 as \"oh, these will be revealed in time\". And the actual translation of those boxes is closer to sounding like scripture than anything JS ever wrote!</p>\n<p>Thanks for sharing these, nlocnil. I shared them on Facebook as well.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>A ANON<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\nWhen the original lost Egyptian writings were found and the translation didn\'t match what Smith said was there, the \"scholars\" at BYU said that the original scroll was much longer and that Smith must have been translating something at the far end that is still lost.</p>\n<p>The problem is that Smith DID \"translate\" these long-established facsimilies, and his so-called \"translations\" are totally wrong! These drawings are of common subjects and are very well known to real experts on the subject.</p>\n<p>BYU\'s scholars are now trying to say that Smith only used these Facisimilies as a \"source of inspiration\" to obtain some other earlier knowledge. They don\'t (can\'t) explain why Smith nevertheless gave very specific and numbered labels to numerous items in the drawings.</p>\n<p>Nor can they explain why our \"modern prophets, seers and revelators\", who are supposed to have all of Smith\'s \"powers and keys\", can\'t provide the correct information themselves, and that all of them since Smith\'s time have had NO idea whatsoever that the old information was bogus.</p>\n<p>Maybe God has been distracted - or He is getting a kick out of watching these charlatans as they fall all over each other.</p>\n<hr />\nrainwriter<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\n_If_ Joseph Smith were actually an intellectual, educated, philosophical etc, I could see there being some truth in the \"These drawings have clear meanings in their culture. I\'m going to use them to illustrate something else to make it easier for you to understand. No, what I\'m going to describe them as is _not_ what they were originally intended to be, but it\'s a good fit to help make this new doctrine a bit more clear,\" argument. But, of course, Joseph Smith wasn\'t those things (as admitted by everyone who argues that he was too dumb to make up the BoM), nor did he actually present the facimilies as anything but genuine depictions of what he said.\n<hr />\n<p>moonbeam<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see</p>\n<p><b>Exactly! He labeled them! I mean, really, people!!!</b></p>\n<hr />\nBoomer<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\nDon\'t you just love Egyptology?\n<hr />\n<p>onendagus<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\nSomeone posted once that everyone should spend 30 minutes learning about Egyptian mythology--especially the story of Isis and Osiris. Once you do that, you know for yourself that JS was an imposter because you can spot Isis and Osiris yourself. In 30 minutes you become a better Egyptologist than Joseph ever was.</p>\n<hr />\nMakurosu<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\nYeah, and then you can point and laugh at the explanations for the left two people in Facsimile #3.\n<p>Umm, that\'s not \"King Pharaoh\", bud. That\'s Isis. Really. See? It\'s a woman. *sigh*</p>\n<hr />\n<p>sherlock<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\nFrom the FAIR website:</p>\n<p>\"Latter-day Saints, as believers unequipped to deal with Egyptology, are not able to really assess that information for ourselves. We would need 15-20 years of schooling to do it. So, we can either trust our spiritual future to the experts of our choice, or we can rely ultimately upon revelation.\"</p>\n<p>15-20 years of schooling? Nah, I could tell that the two female figure in Fac 3 were indeed females. I also went on holiday to Egypt and after 3 days I could tell that the jars depicted in Fac 1 were indeed common canopic jars and not Gods.</p>\n<hr />\nguynoirprivateeye<br />\nour sun gets its energy from Kolob.<br />\nYuppers.\n<hr />\nsherlock<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\nHa ha, just had to add the following gem by John Gee in response to criticism that Joseph got the sex of the two female figures in Fac 3 wrong:\n<p>\"The principal complaint raised by the critics has been regarding the female attire worn by figures 2 and 4, who are identified as male royalty. It has been documented, however, that on certain occasions, for certain ritual purposes, some Egyptian men dressed up as women.\"</p>\n<p>....Jesus wept!</p>\n<hr />\n<p>sherlock<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\nRight, now I\'m just plain angry....</p>\n<p>From FAIR in response to criticism that JS didn\'t correctly add Anubis jackel head to the missing portion if Fac 1:</p>\n<p>\"Joseph correctly interpreted the figure as a priest. Whether the priest has a human head or is wearing the mask of Anubis makes no difference to the interpretation.\"</p>\n<hr />\nnlocnil<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\nYou don\'t even need to look at their clothes to see that those figures in question are female. Just look at the shape of their bodies.\n<hr />\n<p>freeman<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\nI had the privilege of seeing the Rosetta Stone last year, only a month or so after discovering the truth about the BoA. The BoA was the final straw for me - the thing that swung the doubt into certainty - the Church was not true. And the Rosetta stone made it all possible. That rock with carvings on it has saved my life.</p>\n<hr />\nhomo sapiens maximus<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\nJoseph only interpreted one figure of Anubis as a priest, in facsimile 1. However, facsimile 3 ALSO shows Anubis, yet Smith made him out to be a tiny-headed, racist caricature of an African slave.\n<p>FAIR\'s apologetics regarding the Book of Abraham offends intellect. The claim that it would take years of schooling to interpret these scrolls is a clumsy sleight-of-hand; anyone with eyes can see and compare Joe\'s papyri with the hundreds of examples online and in museums and note the many differences, and any literate person can read from countless books about Egypt\'s history and theology.</p>\n<p>A thought occurs: FAIR counsels its readers to put their faith in God and church leaders and to be skeptical of scholars who have spent years in fervent study, yet then they suggest that a person who devotes years to the study of Egyptology might be qualified to interpret the papyri. This is utterly illogical, contradictory and anti-intellectual.</p>\n<p>Thank god FAIR exists, because their idiocy and batsh*t insane ideas are valuable tools for deconversion.</p>\n<hr />\nthingsithink<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\n\"A thought occurs: FAIR counsels its readers to put their faith in God and church leaders and to be skeptical of scholars who have spent years in fervent study, yet then they suggest that a person who devotes years to the study of Egyptology might be qualified to interpret the papyri. This is utterly illogical, contradictory and anti-intellectual.\"\n<p>Superb point.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>nomo moses<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\nThe BoA farce was one of the biggest issues for me, and remains my hope for my youngest daughter. She is very enamored with Egyptology. Her room is decorated with papyri art, scarabs, and jars. I do hope she recognizes the fraud some day. I wish I could help lead her to the truth, but her mother has ensured that we have very little time together.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Brian M<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\nAn Ex-mo with a hankerin\' for spreading the truth could print a stack of these off and put them under the windshield wipers of cars in a church parking lot.</p>\n<p>Or a closet ex-mo could put some up on a church bulletin board.</p>\n<p>Can we get any volunteers? Or are we going to need to make assignments?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Makurosu<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\nSo, he\'s saying that Pharaoh went in drag as Isis? Absolutely brilliant.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>thingsithink<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\nHow about a billboard?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>mtgrizzly<br />\nRe: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see<br />\nEgyptian Transvestites?</p>\n<p>Or, maybe it was like Shakespeare\'s plays which were, originally, staged with all male actors...</p>\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1409614147, expire = 1409700547, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:62e51bcf4a2b7af15a7d6f1473db48d6' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

nlocnil Aug 2012

**Book of Abraham Facsimiles Compared**

Interpretation of Joseph Smith vs modern Egyptologist. In a visually appealing format for better understanding.

Facsimile #1
http://www.afterallwecando.com/BOAcompared.jpg

Facsimile #2
http://www.afterallwecando.com/BOAcomparedFac2.jpg

Facsimile #3
http://www.afterallwecando.com/BOAcomparedFac3.jpg


Admin note:

http://www.kingtutshop.com/freeinfo/Canopic-Jars.htm

"Canopic Jars were used by the ancient Egyptian during the rituals of mummification processes. These were used as containers in which to hold the internal organs of the deceased that was going to be mummified.

The ancient Egyptians before mummifying their pharaohs and dead took out the internal soft organs. These organs contained a lot of fluid and could cause the body to putrefy and decompose quickly.

The jars had lids or stoppers that were shaped as the head of one of the minor funerary deities known as the Four Sons of HORUS."

The above discussing the very common Canopic jars was even in my daughter's high school history book. Just look up Canopic jars and compare to how Joseph Smith interpreted what they were in the Book of Abraham. That alone demonstrates the fraud of Smith. The absurdities he added is just icing on the cake.


Aaron Hines
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
*facepalm*

Joseph: This depicts Abraham in Egypt.
Egyptologist: It's a bleedin' table, you git!


moonbeam
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
One of my favorites. This just makes me shake my head... How can this be rationalized? He made it up! Repeat after me... He made it up!!


Aaron Hines
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
No, he was "inspired" to write the actual Book of Abraham, even though the scroll has nothing to do with it. - Actual response from my TBM former friend.

Yeah, except he actually LABELED THESE DRAWINGS.

Also great, how he blew off all the small words in #3 as "oh, these will be revealed in time". And the actual translation of those boxes is closer to sounding like scripture than anything JS ever wrote!

Thanks for sharing these, nlocnil. I shared them on Facebook as well.


A ANON
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
When the original lost Egyptian writings were found and the translation didn't match what Smith said was there, the "scholars" at BYU said that the original scroll was much longer and that Smith must have been translating something at the far end that is still lost.

The problem is that Smith DID "translate" these long-established facsimilies, and his so-called "translations" are totally wrong! These drawings are of common subjects and are very well known to real experts on the subject.

BYU's scholars are now trying to say that Smith only used these Facisimilies as a "source of inspiration" to obtain some other earlier knowledge. They don't (can't) explain why Smith nevertheless gave very specific and numbered labels to numerous items in the drawings.

Nor can they explain why our "modern prophets, seers and revelators", who are supposed to have all of Smith's "powers and keys", can't provide the correct information themselves, and that all of them since Smith's time have had NO idea whatsoever that the old information was bogus.

Maybe God has been distracted - or He is getting a kick out of watching these charlatans as they fall all over each other.


rainwriter
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
_If_ Joseph Smith were actually an intellectual, educated, philosophical etc, I could see there being some truth in the "These drawings have clear meanings in their culture. I'm going to use them to illustrate something else to make it easier for you to understand. No, what I'm going to describe them as is _not_ what they were originally intended to be, but it's a good fit to help make this new doctrine a bit more clear," argument. But, of course, Joseph Smith wasn't those things (as admitted by everyone who argues that he was too dumb to make up the BoM), nor did he actually present the facimilies as anything but genuine depictions of what he said.

moonbeam
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see

Exactly! He labeled them! I mean, really, people!!!


Boomer
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
Don't you just love Egyptology?

onendagus
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
Someone posted once that everyone should spend 30 minutes learning about Egyptian mythology--especially the story of Isis and Osiris. Once you do that, you know for yourself that JS was an imposter because you can spot Isis and Osiris yourself. In 30 minutes you become a better Egyptologist than Joseph ever was.


Makurosu
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
Yeah, and then you can point and laugh at the explanations for the left two people in Facsimile #3.

Umm, that's not "King Pharaoh", bud. That's Isis. Really. See? It's a woman. *sigh*


sherlock
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
From the FAIR website:

"Latter-day Saints, as believers unequipped to deal with Egyptology, are not able to really assess that information for ourselves. We would need 15-20 years of schooling to do it. So, we can either trust our spiritual future to the experts of our choice, or we can rely ultimately upon revelation."

15-20 years of schooling? Nah, I could tell that the two female figure in Fac 3 were indeed females. I also went on holiday to Egypt and after 3 days I could tell that the jars depicted in Fac 1 were indeed common canopic jars and not Gods.


guynoirprivateeye
our sun gets its energy from Kolob.
Yuppers.
sherlock
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
Ha ha, just had to add the following gem by John Gee in response to criticism that Joseph got the sex of the two female figures in Fac 3 wrong:

"The principal complaint raised by the critics has been regarding the female attire worn by figures 2 and 4, who are identified as male royalty. It has been documented, however, that on certain occasions, for certain ritual purposes, some Egyptian men dressed up as women."

....Jesus wept!


sherlock
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
Right, now I'm just plain angry....

From FAIR in response to criticism that JS didn't correctly add Anubis jackel head to the missing portion if Fac 1:

"Joseph correctly interpreted the figure as a priest. Whether the priest has a human head or is wearing the mask of Anubis makes no difference to the interpretation."


nlocnil
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
You don't even need to look at their clothes to see that those figures in question are female. Just look at the shape of their bodies.

freeman
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
I had the privilege of seeing the Rosetta Stone last year, only a month or so after discovering the truth about the BoA. The BoA was the final straw for me - the thing that swung the doubt into certainty - the Church was not true. And the Rosetta stone made it all possible. That rock with carvings on it has saved my life.


homo sapiens maximus
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
Joseph only interpreted one figure of Anubis as a priest, in facsimile 1. However, facsimile 3 ALSO shows Anubis, yet Smith made him out to be a tiny-headed, racist caricature of an African slave.

FAIR's apologetics regarding the Book of Abraham offends intellect. The claim that it would take years of schooling to interpret these scrolls is a clumsy sleight-of-hand; anyone with eyes can see and compare Joe's papyri with the hundreds of examples online and in museums and note the many differences, and any literate person can read from countless books about Egypt's history and theology.

A thought occurs: FAIR counsels its readers to put their faith in God and church leaders and to be skeptical of scholars who have spent years in fervent study, yet then they suggest that a person who devotes years to the study of Egyptology might be qualified to interpret the papyri. This is utterly illogical, contradictory and anti-intellectual.

Thank god FAIR exists, because their idiocy and batsh*t insane ideas are valuable tools for deconversion.


thingsithink
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
"A thought occurs: FAIR counsels its readers to put their faith in God and church leaders and to be skeptical of scholars who have spent years in fervent study, yet then they suggest that a person who devotes years to the study of Egyptology might be qualified to interpret the papyri. This is utterly illogical, contradictory and anti-intellectual."

Superb point.


nomo moses
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
The BoA farce was one of the biggest issues for me, and remains my hope for my youngest daughter. She is very enamored with Egyptology. Her room is decorated with papyri art, scarabs, and jars. I do hope she recognizes the fraud some day. I wish I could help lead her to the truth, but her mother has ensured that we have very little time together.


Brian M
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
An Ex-mo with a hankerin' for spreading the truth could print a stack of these off and put them under the windshield wipers of cars in a church parking lot.

Or a closet ex-mo could put some up on a church bulletin board.

Can we get any volunteers? Or are we going to need to make assignments?


Makurosu
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
So, he's saying that Pharaoh went in drag as Isis? Absolutely brilliant.


thingsithink
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
How about a billboard?


mtgrizzly
Re: BoA Facsimiles 1-3; Awesome Infographics; must see
Egyptian Transvestites?

Or, maybe it was like Shakespeare's plays which were, originally, staged with all male actors...

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"