BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y new

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>Jesus Smith Nov. 2012</p>\n<p>The thought police are alive and well in Utah.<br />\nThe Obedience Cult rears its ugly face.</p>\n<p><a href=\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL-SyC2jvzw\" title=\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL-SyC2jvzw\">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL-SyC2jvzw</a></p>\n<p>(hat tip to Stephen Bloor for the link, edited per SL Cabbie.)</p>\n<hr />\n<p>sonoma<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\ndirty little cult. the thought police are alive and well in Utah. Samuelson was outrageous in his complete dismissal of students and their respectful and well thought-out questions. you would never see something that disgraceful and positively fascist at a non-cult institution. makes me sick that i attended...</p>\n<hr />\nWilliam Law<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nHaha. This is too funny. Samuelson is a douche bag. And I can\'t understand why everyone is so concerned about \"rules\" through the whole thing. People love to get on board and follow.\n<hr />\nPapaKen<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nHOW did I ever agree to go there??? I recall actually being EXCITED when I got accepted.\n<p>Now I\'m ashamed.</p>\n<p>Some of what I experienced there was good. But looking back, I so do wish I had gone to another school.</p>\n<p>Watching the current BYU President\'s conduct made me ill.</p>\n<p>A friend of mine once said, back when I was going there, \"You couldn\'t PAY me to go to BYU.\" I was offended.</p>\n<p>Now, I agree with him.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Ponti<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nI am truly embarrassed to have a YBU degree. I loved the critical thinking skills of those \"free speech zone\" student, particularly the young man who listed YBU\'s criteria for commencement speakers on the right side, and Cheney\'s accomplishments on the left. Well done on his part. Then he tried to ask Samuelson a question and was summarily dismissed. Samuelson fucked up in my opinion. He would have done better to have addressed their concerns more thoughtfully.</p>\n<hr />\nnickname<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nWhat was the point of the Q&amp;A session with Pres. Samuelson? Was it just to satisfy his own ego? Telling a bunch of kids to shut up, because he\'s in charge?\n<p>Embarrassing.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>jacob<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nFor Samuelson a thoughtful answer would be impossible, you see, his head is so far up his superior\'s ass that he can\'t get enough oxygen to think properly.</p>\n<hr />\naxeldc<br />\nDegree<br />\nI\'m not embarrassed to have a BA from BYU, but I am glad that I have an MA and an MLIS from two schools with more academic freedom.\n<hr />\nJohn_Lyle<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nThe video made me sick to my stomach.\n<p>It doesn\'t really surprise me that they were treated this way. In fact, it surprises me they even let them protest.</p>\n<p>I really can\'t see any purpose, other than getting names to kick out of school, that the question-and-answer session served. The part I loved was that the church is not afraid of anything. Apparently they are.</p>\n<p>Free speech.</p>\n<p>To think I wanted to go there for graduate school. My girlfriend wouldn\'t let me go, because she said it would only be a week before I got kicked out. She was right.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>snowball<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nWhat an arrogant suit. Unbelievable...oh wait it\'s BYU...I believe it.</p>\n<hr />\nMormoney<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nWow!! Good for them.\n<p>I\'m sad to say that at that time, I most certainly would have sided with big brother, the \"prophet\" and all those other do-gooder mormons who opposed the protests.</p>\n<p>I can so clearly now see through it, the lies, the arrogance. I\'m so glad to be free and clear of that cult, the mind control.</p>\n<p>I\'m glad there are some, albeit very few, within that fold that can see beyond it, and I hope they\'ve washed their hands of it.</p>\n<hr />\ntwojedis<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nThe non answers at the Q&amp;A are so typical of what\'s been happening to sithlord and I. It happens every day each time a faithful member asks an uncomfortable question.\n<hr />\ntwojedis<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nJesus, the president of BYU stated in the Q&amp;A that the BYU honor code states that one must not criticize the first presidency. I just read through the honor code several times and I don\'t see that anywhere. Did I miss it or was he lying?\n<hr />\nSL Cabbie<br />\nHere\'s the Original Link...<br />\nProbably kind of anal of me, but I always hate those \"related\" URL\'s on YouTube so I went a-Googling...\n<p><a href=\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL-SyC2jvzw\" title=\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL-SyC2jvzw\">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL-SyC2jvzw</a></p>\n<p>And twojedis, Dallin Oaks was featured on PBS\'s the Mormons when he said \"It is wrong to criticize church leaders even if the criticism is true.\"</p>\n<hr />\nkgigeque<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nI couldn\'t stand the place when I graduated in 1974 (racist, sexist, fascist, an institution to indoctrinate the mindless) and it is painful to watch this video. I\'m sending the link to my nieces and nephews who are there for Christmas! We have got to get the younger generation out, even if there is no hope for the parents!\n<hr />\ntig<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nI thought that was a wonderful q session. Lots of good questions, with absolutely no answers.\n<hr />\nsloperut<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nThe student protesters were a very brief, but very bright, light in a very dark, dark place. Bravo to them. I\'m so glad I went to a school where thinking was encouraged.\n<hr />\n<p>get her done<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nI am ashamed to have a BYU degree.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>stbleaving<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nI was still a hardcore TBM when all this went down, but was furious that Cheney was invited to ruin commencement. My co-workers were very curious about the whole thing, and some of us ended up giving donations to the alternative commencement. I also quit giving money to BYU after that, although in general I believe in supporting one\'s alma mater.</p>\n<p>Edited to add: Does anyone know what happened to the students who were involved in the protest, especially the leaders?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Once More<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nThat video is stomach-churning. Mormon culture, as demonstrated by the a$$hole in a suit at the Q&amp;A, is actually anti-culture.</p>\n<p>The Obedience Cult rears its ugly face.</p>\n<p>Disgusting.</p>\n<hr />\nthe one and only<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nHow soon until everyone in the video is exed?\n<hr />\nJ. Chan<br />\nI understand the reason for it, but I find it hilarious you started<br />\na discussion about censorship with \"Please do not discuss the political side of this.\"\n<hr />\n<p>kimball<br />\nNice call-out!<br />\nSamuelson said:<br />\n\"...but it is part of our honor code that we do not criticize those that we sustain as the prophets seers and revelators.\"</p>\n<p>The closest thing to this in the honor code is:<br />\n\"By accepting appointment on the faculty, continuing in employment, or continuing class enrollment, individuals evidence their commitment to observe the Honor Code standards approved by the Board of Trustees.\"</p>\n<p>Not the same thing at all.</p>\n<p>The second closest thing is this:<br />\n\"Members of the faculty, administration, staff, and student body at BYU, BYU—Hawaii, BYU—Idaho, and LDSBC are selected and retained from among those who voluntarily live the principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Observance of such is a specific condition of employment and admission.\"</p>\n<p>Now, one of these \"principles\" is the temple covenants in which members are to avoid \"evil speaking of the Lord\'s anointed.\" Now, it\'s a stretch to connect \"evil speaking\" with respectful criticism, but mormons like Samuelson sometimes have a hard time making that distinction. They also technically can\'t make the connection between \"Lord\'s anointed\" and \"prophets, seers and revelators,\" unless they also accept that I am one of the Lord\'s anointed, since I received my washings and anointings. I don\'t see them refraining from criticizing me, though.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Jesus Smith<br />\npolitics &amp; outcome of students...<br />\nJ. Chan Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------<br />\n&gt; a discussion about censorship with \"Please do not<br />\n&gt; discuss the political side of this.\"</p>\n<p>Of course, I meant partisan politics.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>stbleaving Wrote:<br />\n-------------------------------------------------------<br />\n&gt; Edited to add: Does anyone know what happened to<br />\n&gt; the students who were involved in the protest,<br />\n&gt; especially the leaders?</p>\n<p>I was informed by email from one source that one of the lead girls has recently posted this video and declared her intent to resign from the church. I don\'t have a name yet.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>twojedis<br />\nRe: Nice call-out!<br />\nSo basically he\'s a liar and threatening those who ask legitimate questions or have differing political opinions.</p>\n<hr />\nkimball<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nIt took place in 2007.\n<p>Funny, I graduated from BYU that spring, and met President Samuelson for the first and only time. I was quite TBM, but there was something about Samuelson that was off to me, he seemed distant and out-of-touch. If I had known what he had recently been saying to my beloved fellow students, I might have flipped him the bird.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Phantom Shadow<br />\nSome BY professors stood up for the students and their cause.<br />\nAny reprisals against them?</p>\n<hr />\nagentpi<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nWow. I was at BYU for this and I have only the vaguest memory of the whole Cheney thing.\n<p>The controversy (if it truly was as big as the video implies) completely escaped me then.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>wendy<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nI\'m so proud of these students!!!!!</p>\n<hr />\nNaomi<br />\nNot to be too political<br />\nIt\'s too bad this video didn\'t show up a few months ago, when it might have gotten more publicity.\n<p>It really shows the mentality of the BYU administration. Intimidation by huge security guards, confiscating their signs, refusing to answer questions, and telling students that questioning is a violation of the Honor Code, which could get them kicked out of the university.</p>\n<p>This is what the Lord\'s University is all about.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>cludgie<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nI think you need to say that in the comments section of the YouTube cut.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>cludgie<br />\nRe: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y<br />\nSamuelson seems like great GA material. What\'s the chance that he will rise into the GA ranks?</p>\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1493514941, expire = 1493601341, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:631560b8e929864e0e6850f0606ebf32' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

Jesus Smith Nov. 2012

The thought police are alive and well in Utah.
The Obedience Cult rears its ugly face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL-SyC2jvzw

(hat tip to Stephen Bloor for the link, edited per SL Cabbie.)


sonoma
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
dirty little cult. the thought police are alive and well in Utah. Samuelson was outrageous in his complete dismissal of students and their respectful and well thought-out questions. you would never see something that disgraceful and positively fascist at a non-cult institution. makes me sick that i attended...


William Law
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
Haha. This is too funny. Samuelson is a douche bag. And I can't understand why everyone is so concerned about "rules" through the whole thing. People love to get on board and follow.
PapaKen
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
HOW did I ever agree to go there??? I recall actually being EXCITED when I got accepted.

Now I'm ashamed.

Some of what I experienced there was good. But looking back, I so do wish I had gone to another school.

Watching the current BYU President's conduct made me ill.

A friend of mine once said, back when I was going there, "You couldn't PAY me to go to BYU." I was offended.

Now, I agree with him.


Ponti
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
I am truly embarrassed to have a YBU degree. I loved the critical thinking skills of those "free speech zone" student, particularly the young man who listed YBU's criteria for commencement speakers on the right side, and Cheney's accomplishments on the left. Well done on his part. Then he tried to ask Samuelson a question and was summarily dismissed. Samuelson fucked up in my opinion. He would have done better to have addressed their concerns more thoughtfully.


nickname
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
What was the point of the Q&A session with Pres. Samuelson? Was it just to satisfy his own ego? Telling a bunch of kids to shut up, because he's in charge?

Embarrassing.


jacob
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
For Samuelson a thoughtful answer would be impossible, you see, his head is so far up his superior's ass that he can't get enough oxygen to think properly.


axeldc
Degree
I'm not embarrassed to have a BA from BYU, but I am glad that I have an MA and an MLIS from two schools with more academic freedom.
John_Lyle
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
The video made me sick to my stomach.

It doesn't really surprise me that they were treated this way. In fact, it surprises me they even let them protest.

I really can't see any purpose, other than getting names to kick out of school, that the question-and-answer session served. The part I loved was that the church is not afraid of anything. Apparently they are.

Free speech.

To think I wanted to go there for graduate school. My girlfriend wouldn't let me go, because she said it would only be a week before I got kicked out. She was right.


snowball
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
What an arrogant suit. Unbelievable...oh wait it's BYU...I believe it.


Mormoney
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
Wow!! Good for them.

I'm sad to say that at that time, I most certainly would have sided with big brother, the "prophet" and all those other do-gooder mormons who opposed the protests.

I can so clearly now see through it, the lies, the arrogance. I'm so glad to be free and clear of that cult, the mind control.

I'm glad there are some, albeit very few, within that fold that can see beyond it, and I hope they've washed their hands of it.


twojedis
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
The non answers at the Q&A are so typical of what's been happening to sithlord and I. It happens every day each time a faithful member asks an uncomfortable question.
twojedis
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
Jesus, the president of BYU stated in the Q&A that the BYU honor code states that one must not criticize the first presidency. I just read through the honor code several times and I don't see that anywhere. Did I miss it or was he lying?
SL Cabbie
Here's the Original Link...
Probably kind of anal of me, but I always hate those "related" URL's on YouTube so I went a-Googling...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL-SyC2jvzw

And twojedis, Dallin Oaks was featured on PBS's the Mormons when he said "It is wrong to criticize church leaders even if the criticism is true."


kgigeque
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
I couldn't stand the place when I graduated in 1974 (racist, sexist, fascist, an institution to indoctrinate the mindless) and it is painful to watch this video. I'm sending the link to my nieces and nephews who are there for Christmas! We have got to get the younger generation out, even if there is no hope for the parents!
tig
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
I thought that was a wonderful q session. Lots of good questions, with absolutely no answers.
sloperut
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
The student protesters were a very brief, but very bright, light in a very dark, dark place. Bravo to them. I'm so glad I went to a school where thinking was encouraged.

get her done
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
I am ashamed to have a BYU degree.


stbleaving
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
I was still a hardcore TBM when all this went down, but was furious that Cheney was invited to ruin commencement. My co-workers were very curious about the whole thing, and some of us ended up giving donations to the alternative commencement. I also quit giving money to BYU after that, although in general I believe in supporting one's alma mater.

Edited to add: Does anyone know what happened to the students who were involved in the protest, especially the leaders?


Once More
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
That video is stomach-churning. Mormon culture, as demonstrated by the a$$hole in a suit at the Q&A, is actually anti-culture.

The Obedience Cult rears its ugly face.

Disgusting.


the one and only
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
How soon until everyone in the video is exed?
J. Chan
I understand the reason for it, but I find it hilarious you started
a discussion about censorship with "Please do not discuss the political side of this."

kimball
Nice call-out!
Samuelson said:
"...but it is part of our honor code that we do not criticize those that we sustain as the prophets seers and revelators."

The closest thing to this in the honor code is:
"By accepting appointment on the faculty, continuing in employment, or continuing class enrollment, individuals evidence their commitment to observe the Honor Code standards approved by the Board of Trustees."

Not the same thing at all.

The second closest thing is this:
"Members of the faculty, administration, staff, and student body at BYU, BYU—Hawaii, BYU—Idaho, and LDSBC are selected and retained from among those who voluntarily live the principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Observance of such is a specific condition of employment and admission."

Now, one of these "principles" is the temple covenants in which members are to avoid "evil speaking of the Lord's anointed." Now, it's a stretch to connect "evil speaking" with respectful criticism, but mormons like Samuelson sometimes have a hard time making that distinction. They also technically can't make the connection between "Lord's anointed" and "prophets, seers and revelators," unless they also accept that I am one of the Lord's anointed, since I received my washings and anointings. I don't see them refraining from criticizing me, though.


Jesus Smith
politics & outcome of students...
J. Chan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> a discussion about censorship with "Please do not
> discuss the political side of this."

Of course, I meant partisan politics.


stbleaving Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Edited to add: Does anyone know what happened to
> the students who were involved in the protest,
> especially the leaders?

I was informed by email from one source that one of the lead girls has recently posted this video and declared her intent to resign from the church. I don't have a name yet.


twojedis
Re: Nice call-out!
So basically he's a liar and threatening those who ask legitimate questions or have differing political opinions.


kimball
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
It took place in 2007.

Funny, I graduated from BYU that spring, and met President Samuelson for the first and only time. I was quite TBM, but there was something about Samuelson that was off to me, he seemed distant and out-of-touch. If I had known what he had recently been saying to my beloved fellow students, I might have flipped him the bird.


Phantom Shadow
Some BY professors stood up for the students and their cause.
Any reprisals against them?


agentpi
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
Wow. I was at BYU for this and I have only the vaguest memory of the whole Cheney thing.

The controversy (if it truly was as big as the video implies) completely escaped me then.


wendy
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
I'm so proud of these students!!!!!


Naomi
Not to be too political
It's too bad this video didn't show up a few months ago, when it might have gotten more publicity.

It really shows the mentality of the BYU administration. Intimidation by huge security guards, confiscating their signs, refusing to answer questions, and telling students that questioning is a violation of the Honor Code, which could get them kicked out of the university.

This is what the Lord's University is all about.


cludgie
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
I think you need to say that in the comments section of the YouTube cut.


cludgie
Re: BYU 25 -- censorship at the Y
Samuelson seems like great GA material. What's the chance that he will rise into the GA ranks?

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"