A letter from a 19 year old Mormon

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>by Eric K June 2012</p>\n<p>Sigh... This is mindless devotion from a young man - \"Mormons don\'t think they are better than anyone else, its the fact that we have more.\"</p>\n<p>---email from Ben W. May 2012 -----</p>\n<p>Hello, my name is Benjamin and I\'m a 19 year old Mormon. Having said that, I\'ve never felt the holy spirit in any other church. This website depicts me and my faith as a joke and/or a drug that is in desperate need of \'recovery\'. have you ever read the book of Mormon? try focusing on what the belief consists of rather than what the people do. I know that Christ died for my sins, that i may live again. Is that not the same? i not only have one holy book to gain knowledge of God from, but two and maybe more to come. Judge lest ye be judged. This website needs shut down. i don\'t call mormonism a religion. It\'s a knowledge that can only by gained by reading the book of Mormon, another collection of prophecies that point to Christ and a second coming. the end. And when the end comes, which i believe is in my lifetime, do you want to be judged by the Lord for putting down your fellow man? If there need be an organization such as yours, it should be toward ignorance of christianity as a whole. Mormons don\'t think they are better than anyone else, its the fact that we have more. And you reject the words of God, for the book of Mormon was translated by young farm boy from an ancient Egyptian writing. There are words in the book that haven\'t been used in centuries. there is no way that the book of Mormon was made up. And if it weren\'t made up, and it\'s words are true, who did they come from? The very God that gave his only son. Joseph Smith translated the golden plates through his devotion and faith in the holy spirit. So read the book, and when you find yourself thinking that it isn\'t true and it\'s just a bunch of made up stories and good teachings, then you have fallen to temptation. When you realize that the devil himself keeps you from reading the book, you will open your eyes.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>[editor\'s note: TBM = true believing Mormon, TSSC = this so called church]</p>\n<p>The mind of a TBM : Benjamin a 19 year old Mormon<br />\nPosted by: Justbnme</p>\n<p>Benjamin has espoused his views on those that disagree with his religious point of view and his distain for us and our community.</p>\n<p>Sadly, I think this is a prime example of how TBM\'s look at those that have rejected Mormonism, TSCC or anyone who dares to have a world view other than that of a TBM:</p>\n<p>1) Benjamin came into our community to chastise us<br />\n- I find this akin to someone one of us taking a turn during fast and testimony meeting. I\'m sure Ben et al would find that highly intrusive, disruptive and alarming. The lack of respect and self assumed righteousness is sickening.</p>\n<p>2) Ben suggests RFM should be shut down<br />\n- No respect for other\'s ideas, free speech or right to assemble. Nope, it challenges his views so it should be locked down. He has the truth, so we all need to bow to his view of the cosmos.</p>\n<p>3) TBM \"crash landing\"; assume the position: I am a victim.<br />\n- \"This website depicts me and my faith as a joke and/or a drug that is in desperate need of \'recovery\'\". Thats right Ben, this isn\'t about us, our journey or experiences. This isn\'t about a place to gather and share ideas, experiences and healing thru a community of common travail. This isn\'t about destroyed homes, relationships, heart ache and the pain that comes from knowing we\'ve been lied to. No, this is about you. You caught us. We did this whole thing just to @#$%&amp; on your world and myopic view of religion.</p>\n<p>4) \"And when the end comes, which i believe is in my lifetime, do you want to be judged by the Lord for putting down your fellow man?\"<br />\n- Kettle, meet pot; pot, meet kettle.</p>\n<p>5) \"Mormons don\'t think they are better than anyone else\"<br />\n- Yes, you do. TBMs believe doctrinally, socially and morally that they are superior to everyone else. You are the select few that have the truth; all others are beneath you. We are seen as worse than anyone else you can ever encounter; we left the one and only true church. We are a threat to you. We scare you. We challenge everything you are and believe simply by existing. That is the exact reason you want this site shut down. You distain us.</p>\n<p>6)\"When you realize that the devil himself keeps you from reading the book, you will open your eyes.\"<br />\n- Yes, Ben, we scare you so much that the only way you can rationalize our existence is to declare and \"know\" (like so many other things you \"know\" in your 19 years of existence) that we are possessed by the devil. Satan has taken control of our lives, minds and souls. You see, that must be true in order for you to live in your bubble, comfortably.</p>\n<p>Here\'s the take home message. We are all painted as \"them\" by TBMs. By making us \"them\", we are dehumanized, categorized, and placed in a moral holding tank where we can not threaten the group think of TSCC and it\'s true blue members. We are robbed of our individual dignity and value as humans because we dare believe something other than their narrative.</p>\n<p>We are the devil. We are the bogey man. We are worse than anything they can imagine. We are anti-mormons.</p>\n<p>So Ben, you\'ll never see me as a loving father of four children, an adoring husband, a hard working member of society, a professional that works daily in a profession that changes the outcome for cancer patients around the world. No, I\'m not a shunned brother, nephew and son. I am am exactly as you and the vast majority of TBM\'s I have encountered paint me.</p>\n<p>I am an anti-mormon.</p>\n<p>And a proud one, at that.</p>\n<hr />\nPosted by: Doxi<br />\nDate: June 01, 2012 02:31PM<br />\nLet\'s face it....\n<p>Bejamin, that oh-so-charming and religious young fellow, is a bully and a bigot.</p>\n<hr />\nPosted by: blueorchid<br />\nDate: June 01, 2012 02:40PM<br />\nRe: The mind of a TBM: Benjamin a 19 year old Mormon new\n<p>My hat is off to you justbnme.</p>\n<p>I had to read it twice it is such a beautiful response not just to Ben but to the whole TBM faction who actually think they are not only superior now but always were as the most valiant in the supposed war in heaven--finally descending to earth to claim their rightful place as Heavenly Father\'s chosen.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>forestpal<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon<br />\nHow is it that they think we\'ve never read the Book of Mormon? Why do they think we didn\'t pray while we were reading it, and didn\'t try to feel the spirit?</p>\n<p>When I became inactive, various Mormons were constantly admonishing me to read the BOM, and my reply was that I had read it 7 times, had read all the other scriptures, too, plus years and years of Sunday school classes, had taught Sunday school, had graduated from seminary, had taken mandatory scripture classes at BYU, plus extra institute classes. How would reading it an eighth time help?</p>\n<p>(I hated the damn thing every time I read it.)</p>\n<hr />\nNormaRae<br />\nLove how he never felt the spirit in any other church<br />\nAnd just how many other church services do you think he has attended? My guess would be exactly zero.\n<hr />\nquinlansolo<br />\nRe: Wouldn\'t trade my Pothead son son for this<br />\nIdiot.\n<hr />\nmenomore<br />\nIt is a good sign...<br />\nTSCC has commanded members to not read anti-literature. If they do, they will fall into apostasy. I\'m living proof.\n<p>It took years, but I never forgot what I read about the church and like a little worm in my brain it kept nibbling away. Ok, that\'s not a good analogy but you get my meaning.</p>\n<p>menomore, formerly Robin</p>\n<hr />\nCheryl<br />\nWhat a presumptive self important young man\n<hr />\nsuckafoo<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon<br />\nIt would be great if he could free himself before his life gets started down the wrong path. He is just a sproutling starting out. He will get himself all strapped in with a wife and kids then possibly lose all of it if he discovers the truth too late.\n<hr />\n<p>caedmon<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon<br />\nWhy should I read the BoM? Will I learn what Mormon\'s believe about God or Gods, heaven, eternal progression, what is required for salvation?</p>\n<p>The Book of Mormon teaches one God, not plural gods as in Mormonism. It says there are only two possible fates after death: heaven or hell, not three degrees of glory. The Book Mormon states that God is a spirit, not a exalted man with a body of flesh and bones as Mormonism teaches. The Book of Mormon states that Jesus and God are the same, not separate beings. The book makes no mention of temple marriage or secret temple ceremonies; in fact it specifically condemns “secret combinations”. It does not teach baptism for the dead, pre-existence of man, eternal progression or polygamy. It does not command abstinence from alcohol, tea or coffee. The Christ of the Book of Mormon says that the gospel of faith, repentance, baptism ONLY and that any teaching beyond that will lead to hell; current Mormon doctrine says these things are only the beginning and that much more is required (obedience, tithes, endowment, etc.).</p>\n<hr />\ndavesnothere<br />\nRe: What a presumptive self important young man.<br />\nSadly, the Church raises and teaches them to presumptuous and arrogant. One can but hope that “life” teaches him otherwise.\n<hr />\nJoD3:360<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon<br />\nHe\'s never felt the same spirit in any other church because they are not familiar to him. Just as he does not recognize that the woman standing next to him is one ofthe sweetest most loving mothers around. Why? Because she is someone elses mother.\n<p>Oh well, at least he is strong in his convictions. Lots of youth are too busy texting and goofing off to stand up for what they believe.</p>\n<p>Oh and ummmm, Ben W, the plates did not contain ancient Egyptian- please compare such writing against the Anthon charators...</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Opie\'s Ghost<br />\nA perfect illustration<br />\nThis young man (or woman) is a perfect example of what the LDS Church churns out year after year. Indoctrinated since birth, the poor kid is a walking automaton programmed to say exactly what the 15 Pharisees have decreed.</p>\n<p>Not a semblance of critical thinking skills.</p>\n<hr />\nDeAnn<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon<br />\nOh, dear.\n<p>You know, this is a kid. A child. A nineteen-year-old. Most nineteen-year-olds are genuine ignoramuses. He does not know what he does not know. His brain is not yet fully formed. His judgment center isn\'t developed yet.</p>\n<p>So scary to think that the MORmON church sends these unformed, uninformed, ignorant kids out to preach. Dear god!</p>\n<hr />\n<p>wittyname<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon<br />\nWhat a pompous idiot.</p>\n<p>He needs to put down the BoM and pick up a college education so he learn common grammar, how to write well and critical thinking skills.</p>\n<p>This site \"needs shut down\" - did he forget \"to be\" or do people really speak this way? Do cars need parked? Doors need shut? Dogs need walked?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Heresy<br />\nSounds like good missionary material, already fully trained.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>CA girl<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon<br />\n&gt; ---email from Ben W. May 2012 -----<br />\n\"have you ever read the book of Mormon? try focusing on what the belief consists of rather than what the people do.\"</p>\n<p>This was the sentence that stood out to me the most. Because what GOOD is the Book of Mormon, who cares if the teachings are true and from Christ if they don\'t inspire the people to be like Christ? If what the people do who follow the Book of Mormon is live their lives as a giant middle finger to everything the Savior taught, everything he stood for, aren\'t you WORSE for following the Mormon Church. If what the people do is so in contrary to what the Book of Mormon teaches, it can\'t be that inspiring but rather damaging to it\'s readers.</p>\n<p>the devil himself keeps you from reading the book, you will open your eyes.</p>\n<p>Benjamin, honey, you are the one who is refusing to see this from both sides. We\'ve all been faithful Mormons like you and we had our eyes opened to look at both sides. You only see what you want to see - you only see your side. What if we are right? Everything in you that says you love the Savior should care enough to investigate our claims. He should mean more to you than the Book of Mormon or the LDS church and if you are given a lot of specific information that says he isn\'t to be found in the LDS church, finding out whether that information is true or a lie should be your most important quest. But you bury your head in the sand and refuse to look at anything that doesn\'t validate what you want to believe. That tells me more about what you really think of the Savior than anything else you\'ve said. You want the church to be your God and it\'s your life - your choice. But you are the one who refused to consider the possibilities and refused to follow the Savior at all cost.</p>\n<hr />\nStray Mutt<br />\nAh, the wisdom of 19-year-olds.<br />\nAnd remember JS was just a few years older when he founded the church.\n<hr />\nJoD3:360<br />\nalso the same age as many suicide bombers\n<hr />\n<p>WinksWinks<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon<br />\nI\'m still ROFLing over \"judge lest ye be judged...\"</p>\n<p>Yes, in fact it was fine judging on my part that mormanity is full of nonsense and not fit for taking up my time and money.</p>\n<hr />\nblueorchid<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon<br />\nAT his age I would have written the same thing. I can\'t believe how hard it made me laugh now--at my old self as much as anything.\n<p>What he doesn\'t get, is we know more about the BoM than he does.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>What is Wanted<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon<br />\nBenjamin, Benji, Benj......</p>\n<p>Buddy.... The entire LDS religion is a man made concoction. It is provably a fraud and that is what so many of us here have found out.</p>\n<p>We did not leave because it was true... we left because it is a lie.</p>\n<p>There are a lot of places you can find out the truth about the church. A good place to start is mormonthink.com</p>\n<hr />\nanagrammy<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon<br />\nThe Mormon Church does not teach Christ\'s teachings. It brings \"another gospel\" cloaked in his name, in ever larger fonts to hide the truth.\n<p>Some examples:</p>\n<p>WORD OF WISDOM. Jesus taught that it didn\'t matter what you ate or drank, but what came out of your mouth mattered. INSTEAD, Mormons have made it an obsession to identify and punish those who drink alcohol and coffee.</p>\n<p>GREATEST COMMANDMENT. Jesus taught that the greatest commandment is to love God and love your neighbor. INSTEAD, Mormons teach that the greatest commandments are to pray, pay, and obey.</p>\n<p>MATTER FIRST OR SPIRIT FIRST. The Bible teaches that God breathed his spirit into man after his body was created. Mormons teach that his spirit lived before, was tested in another life, failed or was \"valiant,\" made choices, etc.</p>\n<p>BARRING FROM TEMPLE. Jesus condemned the Pharisees who barred the poor from the temple because they couldn\'t purchase the required offering. INSTEAD, Mormons restored the requirement of payment (of back tithing) for return of full temple privileges.</p>\n<p>SALVATION. Christians believe Christ\'s death at Calvary atoned for our all our sins. INSTEAD, Mormons believe that even after Christ\'s sacrifice, you are only saved \"after all you can do.\" Additionally, Brigham Young claimed you had to spill your own blood on the earth in order to be saved from the crime of murder. Thus invalidating the sweeping nature of the atonement and allowing Mormons to \"help\" murderers by killing them.</p>\n<p>I could go on, but I\'ll stop with these because Benjamin needs a wider education. The factoids he learned in seminary, which he is regurgitating in hopelessly inadequate grammar, should have been spent learning to communicate effectively in the English language.</p>\n<p>Benjamin have more but can\'t right. Why now logic?</p>\n<p>Anagrammy</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Chicken\'n\'Backpacks<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon<br />\nI think this kid is not a native english speaker, therefore probably a recent convert and newly zealous.</p>\n<p>If he\'s a BIC native speaker of the english language, though, god help us all.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>lillium<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon<br />\nI thought they weren\'t teaching end of world prophesies anymore? Cuz it sounds too cultish.</p>\n<hr />\ngeekchick<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon<br />\nsame with me, Blue, at 19 I was in the exact same place\n<p>Now that I\'m wiser and I have children his age, I look at his information with the eye of a parent knowing that this poor deluded child is simply doing what he\'s been told to do.</p>\n<p>I hope he doesn\'t realize too late that his firm commitment will cost him more than he gains.</p>\n<p>GeekChick</p>\n<hr />\n<p>cl2<br />\n+1<br />\nExactly what I was thinking. He thinks we never read the bofm?</p>\n<p>From my experience, I have read it more than any one who has told me to read it or offered to drop a copy by.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>blueorchid<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon<br />\nDuh, you forgot to read it \'without\' being in Satan\'s temptations while reading it.</p>\n<p>Now go for your eighth time and leave Satan out of it for once. It\'s soooo simple even a nineteen year old knows that.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>flyboy21<br />\nI knew someone else had already caught that!<br />\nWhat a sage young man for nineteen. He just summed up the entirety of Latter-day Saint culture in five succinct words!</p>\n<hr />\n<p>jbug<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon<br />\nI have read the BofM FIVE times...it is a boring bunch of made up lies</p>\n<p>I feel sorry for this poor boy...he is wasting his time with a cult. I hope that someday he will be able to look past the brainwashing and think for himself.</p>\n<hr />\nscooter<br />\nHe reminds me of Elder Price<br />\npre-mission to Uganda.\n<hr />\nRaptor Jesus<br />\n\"When you realize the devil himself keeps you from reading the book....\"<br />\nSo Satan is the god of boredom?\n<hr />\nBrethren,adieu<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon<br />\nOK, Benji, explain a few things to me:\n<p>1. How does Nephi know what a Bible is in 600 BC? (2 Nephi 29 \"a bible, a bible, we already have a bible, we don\'t need another bible\"). The Bible wasn\'t even a word or a concept until the 3rd Century A.D. Before that time, holy writ was a collection of scrolls from different sources, so no-one would have cared about there being more than one \"Bible\" or book, or parchment, whatever you want to call it.</p>\n<p>2. How do you explain that god is against polygamy in the book of Jacob, and for polygamy in D&amp;C 132?</p>\n<p>3. How does a headless man rise up on his knees and gasp for breath( Book of Ether ).</p>\n<p>4. How did Moroni get a copy of the Book of Revelations? The Revelations of John are mentioned by name in the Book of Ether.</p>\n<p>5. How did Moroni get a copy of the Letters of Paul? He quotes them extensively.</p>\n<p>6. Name one pre-columbian native american culture that knew how to make steel swords, rode horses, and spoke egyptian AND hebrew.<br />\n7. Why does Jacob speak French? Does the last verse in the Book of Jacob spanish version say \"Adios, my friends?\"</p>\n<hr />\nknotheadusc<br />\nRe: Love how he never felt the spirit in any other church<br />\n+1... I was thinking the same thing. And I haven\'t read the BoM. My husband gave me a copy when we started dated, but I found it extremely hard to read and boring. People who were raised in the church have no doubt read parts of the BoM, if not the whole thing. I guess this fellow thinks that anyone who didn\'t have the same experience he had must not have a valid opinion.\n<hr />\njenn<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon<br />\nBen- I feel sad for you because I\'ve been in your shoes. Remember this site after your mission and you experienced life. Your\'e going to need it after you discover all the LIES. Don\'t you realize your church is LYING to you? Please at least try and see a diffrent view. Everything you mentioned has been proven false.\n<hr />\nPosted by: just a thought ( )<br />\nDate: June 01, 2012 01:19PM<br />\nIrony.\n<p>Dear Ben,</p>\n<p>I\'ve read teh Book of Mormon, and there is no mormonism to be found in it.</p>\n<p>Joseph (or whoever) wrote the book first, and then had developed the doctrines later.</p>\n<p>PS: I look forward to seeing you post here at RfM in a few years.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Posted by: justbnme ( )<br />\nDate: June 01, 2012 01:32PM<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon</p>\n<p>\"This website needs shut down.\"</p>\n<p>And while we\'re at it; cut out your tongues so you can\'t speak this evil, cover your women with burkas so they can\'t tempt righteous men, shut down the internet so temptation, evil and pornography can no longer take root in the hearts of good, god-fearing MORmONs.</p>\n<p>Yup, free agency and how to enforce it.</p>\n<p>Kid, you got one part of your dogma down pat; you follow\'ed satan\'s premortal plan to a \"T\".</p>\n<p>Now, quickly; off to the Bishop\'s office to confess to spanking the monkey last night. Can\'t let you be robbed of the spirit, now, can we??</p>\n<p>Options: Reply•Quote<br />\nPosted by: snowowl ( )<br />\nDate: June 01, 2012 02:50PM<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon</p>\n<p>Since the young person seems to be obsessed with having people read the Book of Mormon as the source of truth, I would ask that they explain why the following current major doctrines that define the Mormon church today are not found in the Book of Mormon. These doctrines all appeared within just a few short years after the publication of the Book of Mormon as \"the most correct book on earth,\" and containing the \"fulness of the gospel,\" so, why did God forget to include them as the actual fulness of the gospel message? Why did the people in the Book of Mormon not not have to believe or practice these doctrines as do Mormons today?</p>\n<p>It is apparent that the structure and doctrines of the Mormon church today are not based on the Book of Mormon but on the pronouncements of the prophets, primarily Joseph Smith. If I wish to know the doctrines of the church, then I should be reading the pronouncements and teachings of the prophets from Joseph Smith onward, not the Book of Mormon, and asking God to confirm the truthfulness of their statements. Is that so difficult for a 19 year old to understand and admit?</p>\n<p>God the Father is a \"personage of tabernacle,\" a person with a body of flesh and bones.</p>\n<p>The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are separate gods, \"one in purpose\" only but not one in being.</p>\n<p>God the Father was once a man, on another planet, and progressed to godhood by following perfectly the commands and precepts of his Father God.</p>\n<p>God is married and has a wife, or numerous wives, in heaven.</p>\n<p>God and his heavenly wife (wives) procreated the spirits of every human being that has lived, is now living or will ever live on this earth. Those spirits have lived with their father on his planet in the \"pre-existence\" before being sent to earth to inhabit human bodies.</p>\n<p>God the Father, Jesus Christ, Joseph Smith and other sons of the Father did not create the universe and earth out of nothing, but \"organized\" them from eternally existing matter that pre-existed God the Father.</p>\n<p>Jesus Christ is the brother of every human being, and is also the brother of Lucifer (Satan) and the angels.</p>\n<p>Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost.</p>\n<p>The mother of Jesus Christ on earth was Mary, his own spirit sister.</p>\n<p>Jesus Christ was fathered by means of a sexual union between God the Father and his own spirit daughter Mary - an incestuous relationship.</p>\n<p>God the Father and his daughter Mary were husband and wife.</p>\n<p>Jesus Christ made atonement for sins in the Garden of Gethsemane, not on the cross.</p>\n<p>The Most faithful and worthy Mormons can progress to godhood in the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom, where they can obtain their own planet and with their wife (wives) procreate spirit children for eternity.</p>\n<p>The \"new and everlasting covenant\" of polygamy is necessary for exaltation to godhood.</p>\n<p>Mormons who are unmarried in this life and do not marry in the next life, cannot be exalted, but will become servant ministering angels to exalted Mormons in the next life.</p>\n<p>There are three levels in heaven:<br />\n1. Telestial - lowest level<br />\n2. Terrestrial - middle level<br />\n3. Celestial - highest level, of which there are also three levels</p>\n<p>Baptisms for the dead must be performed by proxy in this life for those who did not accept the gospel in this life, so that their sins can be forgiven and they can enter the Celestial Kingdom after they accept the Mormon gospel message in the next life.</p>\n<p>Every human being will find a place in one of the three levels of heaven, except for the Devil and his angels and a few Mormons who have held the priesthood and become apostate.</p>\n<p>The Priesthood is necessary in order for men to receive authority to act in the name of God and perform the various duties necessary to carry out the ordinances of the gospel.</p>\n<p>Temples and temple ordinances pertaining to endowments are necessary in order to pass through the veil and enter the presence of God the Father, and consist of Temple Marriage, new names, secret key words and handshakes that will be used as an identification of the person in the next life.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Posted by: suckafoo ( )<br />\nDate: June 01, 2012 03:37PM<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon</p>\n<p>Stick of Joseph, stick of Judah ... What are the sticks called for D&amp;C, BofA, etc?</p>\n<p>Options: Reply•Quote<br />\nPosted by: snowowl ( )<br />\nDate: June 01, 2012 06:29PM<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon</p>\n<p>There is no antecedent in the Bible for the D&amp;C and B of A. so those books must be accepted as scripture based only on the word of the prophet(s), just like the current main doctrines of the church.</p>\n<p>Even the claim that that Stick of Judah and Stick of Joseph mentioned in Ezekiel 37:15-17 refers to the joining of the Bible and the Book of Mormon is ludicrous at best, and is laughed at by any legitimate Jewish scholar or Orthodox Christian. The joining of the sticks refers to the reuniting of the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Whether a person believes the Bible or not, any person reading the passage would see that a claim to a uniting of the Book of Mormon and the Bible is not even a possible explanation.</p>\n<p>Another passage that Mormons claim refers to the coming forth of the Book of Mormon out of the ground is Isaiah. 29:1-4, and again it is ludicrous to even consider that claim as being serious. The passage refers to the destruction of Jerusalem and not the reemergence of the Book of Mormon from the Hill Cummorah.</p>\n<hr />\nPosted by: suckafoo ( )<br />\nDate: June 01, 2012 07:21PM<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon\n<p>In addition to this, the Book of Mormon does not offer any additional \"gospel\" than what is already in the Bible. It is a benign book.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Posted by: Earth Wind and Fire ( )<br />\nDate: June 01, 2012 04:45PM<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon</p>\n<p>\"And when the end comes, which i believe is in my lifetime, do you want to be judged by the Lord for putting down your fellow man?\"</p>\n<p>The pot did NOT just call the kettle black. (sarcasm) Okay, seriously, this kid is in for a wake up call. How many people have uttered those words about \"the end\" and then died thinking the end would be in their lifetime?</p>\n<p>Weakest argument for the BoM:</p>\n<p>\"There are words in the book that haven\'t been used in centuries. there is no way that the book of Mormon was made up.\"</p>\n<p>Seriously, though, I hope he keeps reading this website. If he\'s here, he probably came with the intent of saving our souls and getting truckloads of brownie points with god, but that doesn\'t mean he can\'t actually learn something.</p>\n<hr />\nPosted by: rgg ( )<br />\nDate: June 01, 2012 06:10PM<br />\nHe sounds super brainwashed (n/t)\n<p>Options: Reply•Quote<br />\nPosted by: happyexmormon ( )<br />\nDate: June 01, 2012 07:12PM<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon</p>\n<p>\"Mormons don\'t think they are better than anyone else.\"</p>\n<p>Seriously?</p>\n<p>Spend a few years in Utah County from an outsiders, non-Mormon p.o.v. where you get judged, slandered, and shunned by the locals because you\'re not Mormon.</p>\n<p>\"Putting down fellow man.\"</p>\n<p>Not really. I\'m putting down the BEHAVIOR of fellow man that use their title as a Mormon as an excuse for their behavior. I\'m not judging them as living things. Just their bad, narcissistic manners.</p>\n<p>\"So read the book, and when you find yourself thinking that it isn\'t true and it\'s just a bunch of made up stories and good teachings, then you have fallen to temptation. When you realize that the devil himself keeps you from reading the book, you will open your eyes.\"</p>\n<p>This part irritates me so much I just want to club a baby seal--offensive sarcasm intended, because it\'s just as offensive to me to have someone say I\'m going to hell for thinking for myself and making my own decisions that have nothing to do with any \"morality\" issues.</p>\n<p>I\'m trying to respect your opinion, Ben, and respect where you\'re coming from, but to accuse someone of being satan\'s lapdog because they don\'t believe in certain things sounds like something I\'d hear in a junior high cafeteria.</p>\n<p>Go see the world for a while with an OPEN mind, because where you\'re coming from now, you are in for an epic surprise.</p>\n<hr />\nPosted by: heyimginger ( )<br />\nDate: June 01, 2012 07:16PM<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon\n<p>Bah, this kid just needs to get laid, then he\'ll rethink his whole \"holy spirit\" mumbo jumbo.</p>\n<hr />\nPosted by: exmorphmon ( )<br />\nDate: June 01, 2012 07:38PM<br />\nRe: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon\n<p>Dear Benjamin,</p>\n<p>Study harder in school, not Sunday school.</p>\n<p>Sincerely</p>\n<p>exmorphmon</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Posted by: PapaKen ( )<br />\nDate: June 01, 2012 07:50PM<br />\nBrainwashing at work</p>\n<p>\"Be bold, be brave, don\'t be afraid to testify, even if you don\'t know for sure, even if you haven\'t read every word. You still can know of its truthfulness. As you testify, your testimony will strengthen.\"</p>\n<p>Beware. Brainwashing at work.</p>\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1495668117, expire = 1495754517, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:6ecbd41ea9d3b71966da649b453ef4ff' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

by Eric K June 2012

Sigh... This is mindless devotion from a young man - "Mormons don't think they are better than anyone else, its the fact that we have more."

---email from Ben W. May 2012 -----

Hello, my name is Benjamin and I'm a 19 year old Mormon. Having said that, I've never felt the holy spirit in any other church. This website depicts me and my faith as a joke and/or a drug that is in desperate need of 'recovery'. have you ever read the book of Mormon? try focusing on what the belief consists of rather than what the people do. I know that Christ died for my sins, that i may live again. Is that not the same? i not only have one holy book to gain knowledge of God from, but two and maybe more to come. Judge lest ye be judged. This website needs shut down. i don't call mormonism a religion. It's a knowledge that can only by gained by reading the book of Mormon, another collection of prophecies that point to Christ and a second coming. the end. And when the end comes, which i believe is in my lifetime, do you want to be judged by the Lord for putting down your fellow man? If there need be an organization such as yours, it should be toward ignorance of christianity as a whole. Mormons don't think they are better than anyone else, its the fact that we have more. And you reject the words of God, for the book of Mormon was translated by young farm boy from an ancient Egyptian writing. There are words in the book that haven't been used in centuries. there is no way that the book of Mormon was made up. And if it weren't made up, and it's words are true, who did they come from? The very God that gave his only son. Joseph Smith translated the golden plates through his devotion and faith in the holy spirit. So read the book, and when you find yourself thinking that it isn't true and it's just a bunch of made up stories and good teachings, then you have fallen to temptation. When you realize that the devil himself keeps you from reading the book, you will open your eyes.


[editor's note: TBM = true believing Mormon, TSSC = this so called church]

The mind of a TBM : Benjamin a 19 year old Mormon
Posted by: Justbnme

Benjamin has espoused his views on those that disagree with his religious point of view and his distain for us and our community.

Sadly, I think this is a prime example of how TBM's look at those that have rejected Mormonism, TSCC or anyone who dares to have a world view other than that of a TBM:

1) Benjamin came into our community to chastise us
- I find this akin to someone one of us taking a turn during fast and testimony meeting. I'm sure Ben et al would find that highly intrusive, disruptive and alarming. The lack of respect and self assumed righteousness is sickening.

2) Ben suggests RFM should be shut down
- No respect for other's ideas, free speech or right to assemble. Nope, it challenges his views so it should be locked down. He has the truth, so we all need to bow to his view of the cosmos.

3) TBM "crash landing"; assume the position: I am a victim.
- "This website depicts me and my faith as a joke and/or a drug that is in desperate need of 'recovery'". Thats right Ben, this isn't about us, our journey or experiences. This isn't about a place to gather and share ideas, experiences and healing thru a community of common travail. This isn't about destroyed homes, relationships, heart ache and the pain that comes from knowing we've been lied to. No, this is about you. You caught us. We did this whole thing just to @#$%& on your world and myopic view of religion.

4) "And when the end comes, which i believe is in my lifetime, do you want to be judged by the Lord for putting down your fellow man?"
- Kettle, meet pot; pot, meet kettle.

5) "Mormons don't think they are better than anyone else"
- Yes, you do. TBMs believe doctrinally, socially and morally that they are superior to everyone else. You are the select few that have the truth; all others are beneath you. We are seen as worse than anyone else you can ever encounter; we left the one and only true church. We are a threat to you. We scare you. We challenge everything you are and believe simply by existing. That is the exact reason you want this site shut down. You distain us.

6)"When you realize that the devil himself keeps you from reading the book, you will open your eyes."
- Yes, Ben, we scare you so much that the only way you can rationalize our existence is to declare and "know" (like so many other things you "know" in your 19 years of existence) that we are possessed by the devil. Satan has taken control of our lives, minds and souls. You see, that must be true in order for you to live in your bubble, comfortably.

Here's the take home message. We are all painted as "them" by TBMs. By making us "them", we are dehumanized, categorized, and placed in a moral holding tank where we can not threaten the group think of TSCC and it's true blue members. We are robbed of our individual dignity and value as humans because we dare believe something other than their narrative.

We are the devil. We are the bogey man. We are worse than anything they can imagine. We are anti-mormons.

So Ben, you'll never see me as a loving father of four children, an adoring husband, a hard working member of society, a professional that works daily in a profession that changes the outcome for cancer patients around the world. No, I'm not a shunned brother, nephew and son. I am am exactly as you and the vast majority of TBM's I have encountered paint me.

I am an anti-mormon.

And a proud one, at that.


Posted by: Doxi
Date: June 01, 2012 02:31PM
Let's face it....

Bejamin, that oh-so-charming and religious young fellow, is a bully and a bigot.


Posted by: blueorchid
Date: June 01, 2012 02:40PM
Re: The mind of a TBM: Benjamin a 19 year old Mormon new

My hat is off to you justbnme.

I had to read it twice it is such a beautiful response not just to Ben but to the whole TBM faction who actually think they are not only superior now but always were as the most valiant in the supposed war in heaven--finally descending to earth to claim their rightful place as Heavenly Father's chosen.


forestpal
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon
How is it that they think we've never read the Book of Mormon? Why do they think we didn't pray while we were reading it, and didn't try to feel the spirit?

When I became inactive, various Mormons were constantly admonishing me to read the BOM, and my reply was that I had read it 7 times, had read all the other scriptures, too, plus years and years of Sunday school classes, had taught Sunday school, had graduated from seminary, had taken mandatory scripture classes at BYU, plus extra institute classes. How would reading it an eighth time help?

(I hated the damn thing every time I read it.)


NormaRae
Love how he never felt the spirit in any other church
And just how many other church services do you think he has attended? My guess would be exactly zero.
quinlansolo
Re: Wouldn't trade my Pothead son son for this
Idiot.
menomore
It is a good sign...
TSCC has commanded members to not read anti-literature. If they do, they will fall into apostasy. I'm living proof.

It took years, but I never forgot what I read about the church and like a little worm in my brain it kept nibbling away. Ok, that's not a good analogy but you get my meaning.

menomore, formerly Robin


Cheryl
What a presumptive self important young man
suckafoo
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon
It would be great if he could free himself before his life gets started down the wrong path. He is just a sproutling starting out. He will get himself all strapped in with a wife and kids then possibly lose all of it if he discovers the truth too late.

caedmon
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon
Why should I read the BoM? Will I learn what Mormon's believe about God or Gods, heaven, eternal progression, what is required for salvation?

The Book of Mormon teaches one God, not plural gods as in Mormonism. It says there are only two possible fates after death: heaven or hell, not three degrees of glory. The Book Mormon states that God is a spirit, not a exalted man with a body of flesh and bones as Mormonism teaches. The Book of Mormon states that Jesus and God are the same, not separate beings. The book makes no mention of temple marriage or secret temple ceremonies; in fact it specifically condemns “secret combinations”. It does not teach baptism for the dead, pre-existence of man, eternal progression or polygamy. It does not command abstinence from alcohol, tea or coffee. The Christ of the Book of Mormon says that the gospel of faith, repentance, baptism ONLY and that any teaching beyond that will lead to hell; current Mormon doctrine says these things are only the beginning and that much more is required (obedience, tithes, endowment, etc.).


davesnothere
Re: What a presumptive self important young man.
Sadly, the Church raises and teaches them to presumptuous and arrogant. One can but hope that “life” teaches him otherwise.
JoD3:360
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon
He's never felt the same spirit in any other church because they are not familiar to him. Just as he does not recognize that the woman standing next to him is one ofthe sweetest most loving mothers around. Why? Because she is someone elses mother.

Oh well, at least he is strong in his convictions. Lots of youth are too busy texting and goofing off to stand up for what they believe.

Oh and ummmm, Ben W, the plates did not contain ancient Egyptian- please compare such writing against the Anthon charators...


Opie's Ghost
A perfect illustration
This young man (or woman) is a perfect example of what the LDS Church churns out year after year. Indoctrinated since birth, the poor kid is a walking automaton programmed to say exactly what the 15 Pharisees have decreed.

Not a semblance of critical thinking skills.


DeAnn
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon
Oh, dear.

You know, this is a kid. A child. A nineteen-year-old. Most nineteen-year-olds are genuine ignoramuses. He does not know what he does not know. His brain is not yet fully formed. His judgment center isn't developed yet.

So scary to think that the MORmON church sends these unformed, uninformed, ignorant kids out to preach. Dear god!


wittyname
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon
What a pompous idiot.

He needs to put down the BoM and pick up a college education so he learn common grammar, how to write well and critical thinking skills.

This site "needs shut down" - did he forget "to be" or do people really speak this way? Do cars need parked? Doors need shut? Dogs need walked?


Heresy
Sounds like good missionary material, already fully trained.


CA girl
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon
> ---email from Ben W. May 2012 -----
"have you ever read the book of Mormon? try focusing on what the belief consists of rather than what the people do."

This was the sentence that stood out to me the most. Because what GOOD is the Book of Mormon, who cares if the teachings are true and from Christ if they don't inspire the people to be like Christ? If what the people do who follow the Book of Mormon is live their lives as a giant middle finger to everything the Savior taught, everything he stood for, aren't you WORSE for following the Mormon Church. If what the people do is so in contrary to what the Book of Mormon teaches, it can't be that inspiring but rather damaging to it's readers.

the devil himself keeps you from reading the book, you will open your eyes.

Benjamin, honey, you are the one who is refusing to see this from both sides. We've all been faithful Mormons like you and we had our eyes opened to look at both sides. You only see what you want to see - you only see your side. What if we are right? Everything in you that says you love the Savior should care enough to investigate our claims. He should mean more to you than the Book of Mormon or the LDS church and if you are given a lot of specific information that says he isn't to be found in the LDS church, finding out whether that information is true or a lie should be your most important quest. But you bury your head in the sand and refuse to look at anything that doesn't validate what you want to believe. That tells me more about what you really think of the Savior than anything else you've said. You want the church to be your God and it's your life - your choice. But you are the one who refused to consider the possibilities and refused to follow the Savior at all cost.


Stray Mutt
Ah, the wisdom of 19-year-olds.
And remember JS was just a few years older when he founded the church.
JoD3:360
also the same age as many suicide bombers

WinksWinks
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon
I'm still ROFLing over "judge lest ye be judged..."

Yes, in fact it was fine judging on my part that mormanity is full of nonsense and not fit for taking up my time and money.


blueorchid
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon
AT his age I would have written the same thing. I can't believe how hard it made me laugh now--at my old self as much as anything.

What he doesn't get, is we know more about the BoM than he does.


What is Wanted
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon
Benjamin, Benji, Benj......

Buddy.... The entire LDS religion is a man made concoction. It is provably a fraud and that is what so many of us here have found out.

We did not leave because it was true... we left because it is a lie.

There are a lot of places you can find out the truth about the church. A good place to start is mormonthink.com


anagrammy
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon
The Mormon Church does not teach Christ's teachings. It brings "another gospel" cloaked in his name, in ever larger fonts to hide the truth.

Some examples:

WORD OF WISDOM. Jesus taught that it didn't matter what you ate or drank, but what came out of your mouth mattered. INSTEAD, Mormons have made it an obsession to identify and punish those who drink alcohol and coffee.

GREATEST COMMANDMENT. Jesus taught that the greatest commandment is to love God and love your neighbor. INSTEAD, Mormons teach that the greatest commandments are to pray, pay, and obey.

MATTER FIRST OR SPIRIT FIRST. The Bible teaches that God breathed his spirit into man after his body was created. Mormons teach that his spirit lived before, was tested in another life, failed or was "valiant," made choices, etc.

BARRING FROM TEMPLE. Jesus condemned the Pharisees who barred the poor from the temple because they couldn't purchase the required offering. INSTEAD, Mormons restored the requirement of payment (of back tithing) for return of full temple privileges.

SALVATION. Christians believe Christ's death at Calvary atoned for our all our sins. INSTEAD, Mormons believe that even after Christ's sacrifice, you are only saved "after all you can do." Additionally, Brigham Young claimed you had to spill your own blood on the earth in order to be saved from the crime of murder. Thus invalidating the sweeping nature of the atonement and allowing Mormons to "help" murderers by killing them.

I could go on, but I'll stop with these because Benjamin needs a wider education. The factoids he learned in seminary, which he is regurgitating in hopelessly inadequate grammar, should have been spent learning to communicate effectively in the English language.

Benjamin have more but can't right. Why now logic?

Anagrammy


Chicken'n'Backpacks
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon
I think this kid is not a native english speaker, therefore probably a recent convert and newly zealous.

If he's a BIC native speaker of the english language, though, god help us all.


lillium
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon
I thought they weren't teaching end of world prophesies anymore? Cuz it sounds too cultish.


geekchick
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon
same with me, Blue, at 19 I was in the exact same place

Now that I'm wiser and I have children his age, I look at his information with the eye of a parent knowing that this poor deluded child is simply doing what he's been told to do.

I hope he doesn't realize too late that his firm commitment will cost him more than he gains.

GeekChick


cl2
+1
Exactly what I was thinking. He thinks we never read the bofm?

From my experience, I have read it more than any one who has told me to read it or offered to drop a copy by.


blueorchid
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon
Duh, you forgot to read it 'without' being in Satan's temptations while reading it.

Now go for your eighth time and leave Satan out of it for once. It's soooo simple even a nineteen year old knows that.


flyboy21
I knew someone else had already caught that!
What a sage young man for nineteen. He just summed up the entirety of Latter-day Saint culture in five succinct words!


jbug
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon
I have read the BofM FIVE times...it is a boring bunch of made up lies

I feel sorry for this poor boy...he is wasting his time with a cult. I hope that someday he will be able to look past the brainwashing and think for himself.


scooter
He reminds me of Elder Price
pre-mission to Uganda.
Raptor Jesus
"When you realize the devil himself keeps you from reading the book...."
So Satan is the god of boredom?
Brethren,adieu
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon
OK, Benji, explain a few things to me:

1. How does Nephi know what a Bible is in 600 BC? (2 Nephi 29 "a bible, a bible, we already have a bible, we don't need another bible"). The Bible wasn't even a word or a concept until the 3rd Century A.D. Before that time, holy writ was a collection of scrolls from different sources, so no-one would have cared about there being more than one "Bible" or book, or parchment, whatever you want to call it.

2. How do you explain that god is against polygamy in the book of Jacob, and for polygamy in D&C 132?

3. How does a headless man rise up on his knees and gasp for breath( Book of Ether ).

4. How did Moroni get a copy of the Book of Revelations? The Revelations of John are mentioned by name in the Book of Ether.

5. How did Moroni get a copy of the Letters of Paul? He quotes them extensively.

6. Name one pre-columbian native american culture that knew how to make steel swords, rode horses, and spoke egyptian AND hebrew.
7. Why does Jacob speak French? Does the last verse in the Book of Jacob spanish version say "Adios, my friends?"


knotheadusc
Re: Love how he never felt the spirit in any other church
+1... I was thinking the same thing. And I haven't read the BoM. My husband gave me a copy when we started dated, but I found it extremely hard to read and boring. People who were raised in the church have no doubt read parts of the BoM, if not the whole thing. I guess this fellow thinks that anyone who didn't have the same experience he had must not have a valid opinion.
jenn
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon
Ben- I feel sad for you because I've been in your shoes. Remember this site after your mission and you experienced life. Your'e going to need it after you discover all the LIES. Don't you realize your church is LYING to you? Please at least try and see a diffrent view. Everything you mentioned has been proven false.
Posted by: just a thought ( )
Date: June 01, 2012 01:19PM
Irony.

Dear Ben,

I've read teh Book of Mormon, and there is no mormonism to be found in it.

Joseph (or whoever) wrote the book first, and then had developed the doctrines later.

PS: I look forward to seeing you post here at RfM in a few years.


Posted by: justbnme ( )
Date: June 01, 2012 01:32PM
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon

"This website needs shut down."

And while we're at it; cut out your tongues so you can't speak this evil, cover your women with burkas so they can't tempt righteous men, shut down the internet so temptation, evil and pornography can no longer take root in the hearts of good, god-fearing MORmONs.

Yup, free agency and how to enforce it.

Kid, you got one part of your dogma down pat; you follow'ed satan's premortal plan to a "T".

Now, quickly; off to the Bishop's office to confess to spanking the monkey last night. Can't let you be robbed of the spirit, now, can we??

Options: Reply•Quote
Posted by: snowowl ( )
Date: June 01, 2012 02:50PM
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon

Since the young person seems to be obsessed with having people read the Book of Mormon as the source of truth, I would ask that they explain why the following current major doctrines that define the Mormon church today are not found in the Book of Mormon. These doctrines all appeared within just a few short years after the publication of the Book of Mormon as "the most correct book on earth," and containing the "fulness of the gospel," so, why did God forget to include them as the actual fulness of the gospel message? Why did the people in the Book of Mormon not not have to believe or practice these doctrines as do Mormons today?

It is apparent that the structure and doctrines of the Mormon church today are not based on the Book of Mormon but on the pronouncements of the prophets, primarily Joseph Smith. If I wish to know the doctrines of the church, then I should be reading the pronouncements and teachings of the prophets from Joseph Smith onward, not the Book of Mormon, and asking God to confirm the truthfulness of their statements. Is that so difficult for a 19 year old to understand and admit?

God the Father is a "personage of tabernacle," a person with a body of flesh and bones.

The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are separate gods, "one in purpose" only but not one in being.

God the Father was once a man, on another planet, and progressed to godhood by following perfectly the commands and precepts of his Father God.

God is married and has a wife, or numerous wives, in heaven.

God and his heavenly wife (wives) procreated the spirits of every human being that has lived, is now living or will ever live on this earth. Those spirits have lived with their father on his planet in the "pre-existence" before being sent to earth to inhabit human bodies.

God the Father, Jesus Christ, Joseph Smith and other sons of the Father did not create the universe and earth out of nothing, but "organized" them from eternally existing matter that pre-existed God the Father.

Jesus Christ is the brother of every human being, and is also the brother of Lucifer (Satan) and the angels.

Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost.

The mother of Jesus Christ on earth was Mary, his own spirit sister.

Jesus Christ was fathered by means of a sexual union between God the Father and his own spirit daughter Mary - an incestuous relationship.

God the Father and his daughter Mary were husband and wife.

Jesus Christ made atonement for sins in the Garden of Gethsemane, not on the cross.

The Most faithful and worthy Mormons can progress to godhood in the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom, where they can obtain their own planet and with their wife (wives) procreate spirit children for eternity.

The "new and everlasting covenant" of polygamy is necessary for exaltation to godhood.

Mormons who are unmarried in this life and do not marry in the next life, cannot be exalted, but will become servant ministering angels to exalted Mormons in the next life.

There are three levels in heaven:
1. Telestial - lowest level
2. Terrestrial - middle level
3. Celestial - highest level, of which there are also three levels

Baptisms for the dead must be performed by proxy in this life for those who did not accept the gospel in this life, so that their sins can be forgiven and they can enter the Celestial Kingdom after they accept the Mormon gospel message in the next life.

Every human being will find a place in one of the three levels of heaven, except for the Devil and his angels and a few Mormons who have held the priesthood and become apostate.

The Priesthood is necessary in order for men to receive authority to act in the name of God and perform the various duties necessary to carry out the ordinances of the gospel.

Temples and temple ordinances pertaining to endowments are necessary in order to pass through the veil and enter the presence of God the Father, and consist of Temple Marriage, new names, secret key words and handshakes that will be used as an identification of the person in the next life.


Posted by: suckafoo ( )
Date: June 01, 2012 03:37PM
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon

Stick of Joseph, stick of Judah ... What are the sticks called for D&C, BofA, etc?

Options: Reply•Quote
Posted by: snowowl ( )
Date: June 01, 2012 06:29PM
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon

There is no antecedent in the Bible for the D&C and B of A. so those books must be accepted as scripture based only on the word of the prophet(s), just like the current main doctrines of the church.

Even the claim that that Stick of Judah and Stick of Joseph mentioned in Ezekiel 37:15-17 refers to the joining of the Bible and the Book of Mormon is ludicrous at best, and is laughed at by any legitimate Jewish scholar or Orthodox Christian. The joining of the sticks refers to the reuniting of the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Whether a person believes the Bible or not, any person reading the passage would see that a claim to a uniting of the Book of Mormon and the Bible is not even a possible explanation.

Another passage that Mormons claim refers to the coming forth of the Book of Mormon out of the ground is Isaiah. 29:1-4, and again it is ludicrous to even consider that claim as being serious. The passage refers to the destruction of Jerusalem and not the reemergence of the Book of Mormon from the Hill Cummorah.


Posted by: suckafoo ( )
Date: June 01, 2012 07:21PM
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon

In addition to this, the Book of Mormon does not offer any additional "gospel" than what is already in the Bible. It is a benign book.


Posted by: Earth Wind and Fire ( )
Date: June 01, 2012 04:45PM
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon

"And when the end comes, which i believe is in my lifetime, do you want to be judged by the Lord for putting down your fellow man?"

The pot did NOT just call the kettle black. (sarcasm) Okay, seriously, this kid is in for a wake up call. How many people have uttered those words about "the end" and then died thinking the end would be in their lifetime?

Weakest argument for the BoM:

"There are words in the book that haven't been used in centuries. there is no way that the book of Mormon was made up."

Seriously, though, I hope he keeps reading this website. If he's here, he probably came with the intent of saving our souls and getting truckloads of brownie points with god, but that doesn't mean he can't actually learn something.


Posted by: rgg ( )
Date: June 01, 2012 06:10PM
He sounds super brainwashed (n/t)

Options: Reply•Quote
Posted by: happyexmormon ( )
Date: June 01, 2012 07:12PM
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon

"Mormons don't think they are better than anyone else."

Seriously?

Spend a few years in Utah County from an outsiders, non-Mormon p.o.v. where you get judged, slandered, and shunned by the locals because you're not Mormon.

"Putting down fellow man."

Not really. I'm putting down the BEHAVIOR of fellow man that use their title as a Mormon as an excuse for their behavior. I'm not judging them as living things. Just their bad, narcissistic manners.

"So read the book, and when you find yourself thinking that it isn't true and it's just a bunch of made up stories and good teachings, then you have fallen to temptation. When you realize that the devil himself keeps you from reading the book, you will open your eyes."

This part irritates me so much I just want to club a baby seal--offensive sarcasm intended, because it's just as offensive to me to have someone say I'm going to hell for thinking for myself and making my own decisions that have nothing to do with any "morality" issues.

I'm trying to respect your opinion, Ben, and respect where you're coming from, but to accuse someone of being satan's lapdog because they don't believe in certain things sounds like something I'd hear in a junior high cafeteria.

Go see the world for a while with an OPEN mind, because where you're coming from now, you are in for an epic surprise.


Posted by: heyimginger ( )
Date: June 01, 2012 07:16PM
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon

Bah, this kid just needs to get laid, then he'll rethink his whole "holy spirit" mumbo jumbo.


Posted by: exmorphmon ( )
Date: June 01, 2012 07:38PM
Re: A letter from a 19 year old Mormon

Dear Benjamin,

Study harder in school, not Sunday school.

Sincerely

exmorphmon


Posted by: PapaKen ( )
Date: June 01, 2012 07:50PM
Brainwashing at work

"Be bold, be brave, don't be afraid to testify, even if you don't know for sure, even if you haven't read every word. You still can know of its truthfulness. As you testify, your testimony will strengthen."

Beware. Brainwashing at work.

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"