Posted by blue on June 20, 1998 at 23:51:16:
In Reply to: back to the subject... posted by David Stephens on June 20, 1998 at 12:22:48:
: I don't. Why do you expect Moses and Paul got a unique revelation from god when you don't?
Because of the content of the material they wrote. If they wrote nonsense, they would not be believable.
(and no, praying and getting a feeling of "the holy spirit" is not a unique revelation, it's just the same abuse of emotion that every religion uses--nothing unique about it--when god comes and dictates a bible to you, then you've had a unique revelation (and it's probably time for the looney bin too) ).
I wouldn't phase it that way, but I essentially agree that there is no "special revelation" in our day.
: :Why would it be inappropriate for a sovereign creator to use a written record to convey His message?
: Because it's stupid to believe that god speaks directly and personally to your neighbor, but not to you. Convincing you that god speaks to select "prophets", but not to you is how most religions start and take control of credulous people. It's clear to me that the system that men use to create "comet cults" is not the system a god of creation would choose to use.
You are forgetting that if a sovereign God decides from before creation who will be saved and who won't, He also would decide who will be affected by what influences in life. Everything we hear, read, and see is part of His plan. If you are supposed to be taught certain things, then those things you will be taught.
: : Look at the percentage of the earth's population that has easy access to the Scriptures today.
: Look at how long the whole world has had access to your scriptures compared with how long most of the population of the world lived in ignorance of them. Your god ignored most people for most of the time.
They were never ignored. Those whom God has chosen He will indeed save.
And actually even today people mostly accept the religion of their family, peers and culture. Your god really chose a poor system--a system dependent on locale, culture, faith in men and outright credulity--the same system men have used to create every wacky religion and cult this world has ever known.
God has always chosen to work primarily, although not exclusively, through families.
: : Also, do you believe that all men deserve the same eternal fate?
: I've already made clear that I think it's ridiculous to think that 60 years of life determines ETERNAL fate. That's worse than judging the life-long fate of a child based on how it acts on the day it's born. No crime committed on earth during a lifetime is worth eternal torture. And that brings me back to the point of this thread...
There is only one crime: rebellion against God. How God chooses to handle that part of His creation that rebels against Him is entirely His affair. I certainly don't wish Hell upon anybody. That acts as incentive to continue to share with people what has been shown to me. Even Hitler could, conceivably, have repented during his last days. It's highly unlikely, but I can't judge anyone, whether it's Hitler, Stalin, Lady Di, or Billy Graham.
It doesn't matter if it's willful disobedience or not, eternal torture is pointless and sadistic. It's not justice, nor payment. Even if willful disobedience occurs, eternal torture is a inhuman, disgusting, and pointless response to it. Why do you worship such a demon? Why does it occur to you that the god of our diverse universe has anything to do with such ancient, barbaric and vile ideals?
Again, I don't wish hell upon anybody. I hope that hell simply represents nothingness -- which is the hope of the atheist, no life hereafter. But the Bible seems fairly clear on this.
One could say Christianity is, above all other faiths, "too good to be true." You really don't do a thing to be a Christian. God simply is merciful to you and adopts you as His child, while the rest of the world is cast away. You may, with someone else, of course, argue that Christianity is a gift too big for even God to give. Humanly speaking, that's how it appears. The point is that no one deserves this gift, but God has chosen to give it to some to reveal his love and mercy. In short, because of our disobedience, we all deserve hell. God grants some of us a pardon, for absolutely no reason other than he is being kind.
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