Posted by Carlos on March 04, 1999 at 17:01:04:
In Reply to: Just a minute, Xavier posted by Heisenberg on March 04, 1999 at 13:06:09:
Heisenberg said:
While many of Darwin’s assertions in Origin of the Species have been disproved, there is as you claim a vast amount of evidence in favor of evolutionary processes.
I wouldn't agree that very many of Darwin's assertions have been "disproved" - rather that, as with all scientific theories, the theory of evolution by natural selection as promulgated by Darwin has been refined and elaborated upon. Remember Darwin was at a tremendous disadvantage because he knew nothing about genetics.
I think the discrepancies between the Biblical account of creation and prevailing scientific theories are perhaps less dramatic than they appear on the surface. I would refer you to the writings of Gerald Schroeder, who combines the rather unique qualifications of a Ph.D. in Physics from MIT with some 20 plus years of study with preeminent Talmudic scholars. He has two books in print, Genesis and the Big Bang (1990, published by Bantam Doubleday), and The Science of God (1998, published by Free Press of Simon & Schuster). I find his theories and analysis quite compelling.
Boje and I have discussed this individual and these books before. Before I incur his wrath again, I will say that (1) I have not read "The Science of God", and (2) I have seen enough references to it that I now plan to read it, just as I read Behe's "Darwin's Black Box" and Denton's "Evolution: A Theory in Crisis". I point that out only to demonstrate that I do read materials that don't agree with my present beliefs (that's how I became an unbeliever in the first place), although I don't feel obligated to treat every silly idea with equal respect (for example, the "Bible Code" has been so thoroughly debunked that I feel comfortable in never opening its covers).
With that caveat, I offer a review of the book at the Internet Infidels web site. It does seem to me that the Schroeder started with the a priori assumption that the Genesis account was true, and searched for data to back up that presumption.
(Xavier) Tremendous quantities of energy radiating to earth from the sun is not external influence???
(Heisenberg) That depends on the reference frame. If you are concentrating only on the Earth as a closed loop system, then yes, you would have to say the sun’s influence is “external.” But because the sun’s influence is so great, I like to think more in terms of our solar system, or perhaps even the universe as the reference frame; in both circumstances the sun becomes an integral part of a system in equilibrium.
This is cheating - for purposes of answering the question of whether evolution violates the Second Law, the earth is a closed system and the sun is an external source of energy. To assume otherwise would be like arguing that your home is a closed-loop system that includes you - therefore the lawn getting mowed is a violation of the Second Law.
But that isn’t really the point. What I am getting at is that even when the ideal conditions exist, and the right amount of energy (call it external if you wish) is present, science as yet cannot explain what it is that causes life to begin. How do the amino acids suddenly organize themselves to differentiate and begin functioning as a living organism? And given that that takes place, how and when do the organisms progress from simply “functioning” to the complex processes of cognition? You can explain it as you wish. To me, the most plausible explanation is that there is a Creator involved. Can I prove it? No. Do I need to? No. We can each choose to believe “according to the dictates of our own conscience.”
We had quite a lengthy discussion of abiogenesis a while back; here is the link to the first post in the thread.
You find the origin of organized complexity to be mysterious and unlikely - I agree. But how does it help your cause to ascribe organized complexity to a being of infinite organization and complexity? You are then left with the even more daunting problem: where did He come from?