Posted by Carlos on February 01, 1999 at 12:48:53:
In Reply to: You sir, are correct! posted by Boje on January 31, 1999 at 20:40:12:
Boje said:
So, there is someone else who has read this book! Though I thank you for the link to the review by Dr. Stenger, what I was really looking for, was, perchance, a discussion on the theory, maybe with someone who had actually read the book. I am assuming that you haven’t. I am also assuming that you are not Dr. Stenger (he, for instance, knows that the author is not a Christian; so evidently, you have not even adequately read the review). If I am correct in those suppositions, then maybe you can explain to me, why you are willing to take the word of Dr. Stenger, that the theory is "pathetic", without having checked it out for yourself.
I have not read the book, but I have read several reviews in addition to Stenger's. I am aware that the author is not Christian, but his theories have been co-opted by Christians to support their biblicial interpretations. What I find "pathetic" is that in general it seems to me that Christians pick and choose those works or theories that support their preconceptions, rather than investigating all avenues of scientific inquiry and letting the chips fall where they may.
That leads me to a criticism of the habits of many of the contributors to this board, which I have stated previously: that is: I think that it is hypocritical for atheists or agnostics to charge that Christians unquestioningly accept dogmatic assertions of authoritative scholars in the field of theology, while they do the same thing in the field of scientific inquiry by citing the opinions of authorities, instead of arguing the issues yourselves.
Appeal to authority, huh? I am a hobbyist in the various fields of science. If you want my *expert* opinion you'll have to ask me about economics or healthcare. Therefore, I do rely upon experts to help me filter through all of the crap that masquerades as science. I don't have time to read every book about every new idea, so when something off the wall (like this book, or The Bible Code) comes along I allow the Dawkins and Dennetts of the world (whose works I've read) to tell me if the theories contained in such works are worth considering. If you consider that an appeal to authority, so be it. However, when a genuinely challenging book by a real scientist comes along (such as Darwin's Black Box by Behe), I buy and read it. Behe's book (about which I've formed my own opinions, thank you) sits on my bookshelf next to Dawkins' books.
That is my purpose in bringing it up for discussion now. It seems to me to be a way of resolving many of the various quandaries which have lately been unanswered on this board. The fact that you haven’t alluded to it, leads me to conclude that you a).haven’t read the book, or b). aren’t willing to undercut your previous assertions by giving "ammunition to the enemy". While the latter practice my win some debates for you in the short term, in the long run, it only exposes intellectual dishonesty.
I was once the "enemy" - I once believed much of what you now believe. I changed my mind on God, Satan, the Bible, etc. by being open to new ideas and concepts. I am not interested in winning debates - only in learning and growing, and hopefully changing some more. But, IMHO there is a fundamental difference between Christian apologists and those who are really engaged in honest intellectual inquiry. Apologists seek out information that supports their preconceptions; I do not. That doesn't, however, mean that I have an obligation to entertain every crazy idea that someone has.
If that offends you, I apologize for my manner. I’m not trying to make a personal criticism out of this. I just want to talk about the subject matter, and leave the manipulation to those among us who are motivated by power-lust and all of the other bullshit mind games.
I don't offend easily, and you haven't succeeded in doing so. :)
By the way, Carlos, I’ve read your posts, and I think that you’re really smart; I just don’t agree with you.
Thank you, but I don't feel smart - only increasingly aware of how much I don't know. You're free not to agree with me, but in the end our disagreement is not likely to revolve around the age of the universe, or evolution or anything else scientific - you have something you name "faith", a trait that I've purposefully abandoned.
: Boje
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