Posted by blue on January 30, 1999 at 01:31:17:
In Reply to: I know I'll regret this... posted by Carlos on January 29, 1999 at 11:40:28:
: I quote from a the book Paine's views on the Old Testament:. . .
You quoted his conclusions, which we can get to, but let's start with chapter V:
(Paine) In order to make for it a foundation to rise upon, the inventors were under the necessity of giving to the being whom they call Satan a power equally as great, if not greater, than they attribute to the Almighty.
(Blue) God is, without exception, shown as being infinitely more powerful than Satan.
(Paine) They have not only given him the power of liberating himself from the pit, after what they call his fall, but they have made that power increase afterwards to infinity.
(Blue) At no point does Satan ever "escape." He is said to be set free for a time in Revelation, but that is always under the authority of God.
(Paine) Before this fall they represent him only as an angel of limited existence, as they represent the rest.
(Blue) This is true.
(Paine) After his fall, he becomes, by their account, omnipresent. He exists everywhere, and at the same time. He occupies the whole immensity of space.
(Blue) This is patently false. Satan is always considered a limited being, as is an angel.
(Paine)
Not content with this deification of Satan, they represent him as defeating by stratagem, in the shape of an animal of the creation, all the power and wisdom of the Almighty.
(blue) The fall is that of man, not of God. Man was designed in a way that he could be effectively tempted. There is no indication of any defeat, in any form, of God.
(Paine) They represent him as having compelled the Almighty to the direct necessity either of surrendering the whole of the creation to the government and sovereignty of this Satan, or of capitulating for its redemption by coming down upon earth, and exhibiting himself upon a cross in the shape of a man.
(blue) The cross is the victory achieved by God over Satan on man's behalf.
(Paine) Had the inventors of this story told it the contrary way, that is, had they represented the Almighty as compelling Satan to exhibit himself on a cross in the shape of a snake, as a punishment for his new transgression, the story would have been less absurd, less contradictory.
(blue) Absurdity is objective. The contradictions are purely the invention of Mr. Paine.
(Paine) But, instead of this they make the transgressor triumph, and the Almighty fall.
(blue) The Bible chronicles the defeat of Satan, the triumph of God.
Mr. Paine invented a Bible, and proceeded to attack his own invention. At this point, of course, I have merely claimed each of his points to be false. Mr. Paine conveniently omitted referrence to scripture in his argument (since there is no supporting scripture), and, alas, we cannot ask him to provide any. Perhaps he meant this work as some sort of a farce, I don't know. If so, the joke is on both of us, I suspect. I will be more than happy to give you chapter and verse citations to support my statements, if you have any interest in continuing. Good luck in finding supporting scripture for Mr. Paine's thesis.
Cheers,
blue